BATTLESTAR GALACTICA: The Final 10 - Page 2

Have to agree with that. Roslin has been so telegraphed that it would be a disappointment. It would cheapen(IMO) Baltar's arc for him to turn out to be a Cylon. Helo? Who gives a shit about Helo? Has to be Adama.

If they're right, then it's Roslin. Can't be anyone else. Gaeta and Lee Adama were part of the Fleet at the time, and I refuse to believe that Moore is stupid enough to choose Callie or Ellen Tigh (Ellen Tigh? Are you fucking kidding me?)

Don't forget Lee.

I like Roslin for it, simply because I've always favoured the idea that the Cylons created a messiah to duplicate the words of whatever-the-fuck their bible is. That way all the supernatural stuff could be seen as the Cylons deliberately leading them to earth. Perhaps that's their purpose. I don't think making any of the other characters you mention be the final Cylon is a very good idea at all. Even though it might make a pretty good shock moment.

The Lee Theory has been a popular one for a while since RAZOR, when the PR Cylon makes a big effort to explain that he made sure Lee (specifically) was on Galactica when the Cylon attack happened, thus saving him from the genocide. Dramatically it works too, because of the trauma it inflicts upon Bill Adama, and it throws a curveball into our preconceptions of what the Cylons are, which is something Ron Moore has said the Final Five are designed to do.

Except for the fact that Bill Adama probably watched Lee slither out of his wife's vagina. There's simply no way to retcon that away without resorting to lame "You were adopted and we never told you" shenanigans.

And I don't think Lee is necessarily all that dramatic. He's a character nobody likes. The two people who would be hardest hit by the revelation--Adama and Starbuck--already dealt with their own major betrayals in the last episode.

If they do choose Lee, it smacks of trying to justify wasting so many episodes on such an unpopular character.

I don't think Felix Gaeta as the final Cylon wouldn't be all that interesting, but it would make a megaton of sense. And give the actor something really great to do. I mean, he showed his potential in Collaborators, and it would be nice to see that fulfilled.

I get the feeling that the Face of the Enemy webisodes was their way of apologizing for not giving Gaeta anything interesting to do.

Gaeta would be the most "unknown" I could accept as the 5th. Like Slater said, the rest would be a cheat to some degree.

"Oh it's the marine that kept guarding the Cylon prisoners".

And I didn't know Lee was a hated character.

Boring, not hated.
Wait, he fucked 2 gorgeous women, so yeah.. hated.

He converted me with his speech in the Season 3 finale. Now I really dig his character.

I dug him when he gave that speech. But what has he done for me lately?

And Slater's convinced me.

I really dig Slaters reasoning. Especially in regard to the scripting of Caprica.

But I always took the line "The point of children is to replace their parents." to be a variation of "All this has happened before and will happen again." Meaning Mankind developing the Cylons, their children. They rebell, destroy most of mankind and send them on their Exodus. Fast forward to today and we have 2 "real" hybrids, making them the children of mankind and Cylons and eventually determined to settle (wherever that maybe), taking over and starting the cycle all over again.

Hence I think that from back in the days mankind is itself a product from the "elderly Cylons" (for a lack of a better term) from Kobol that rebelled and spread over the 12 colonies. Cycle complete.

Damn, that was more off topic than anticipated. Sorry for the rant.

Basically where I figured this whole shindig was headed myself. I think this much is pretty obvious and I find it strange that I haven't heard more people bring this up.

Wait: if Adama is a Cylon, what does that make Lee?

Actually, there is another way, which has been theorized by some fans -- it involves using the Resurrection Ship technology to implant a Cylon "spirit" into the body of a human, creating a new kind hybrid of sorts. Yeah, it's a little unwieldy but perhaps Moore has it figured out. It would also explain how Tighe, who spent years with Bill rising through the ranks, is one of the Final Five.

I dunno. I think this would be a pretty big mindfuck for everyone involved. But I'm not entirely sold on it either.

Half-Cylon, like Hera and Chief & Callie's kid.

I also think it's Adama, but here's my problem with the Adama solution: Razor.

Adama was fighting in the first Cylon war when the Cylons were still trying to figure out how to evolve that one Cylon navigator. It seems really odd that the Cylons could have figured out the evolutionary process enough years in advance to have Adama enlisted into the Army and rise through the ranks while having a later, independent effort be so many years behind.

Of course, all this is moot if Slater is right about the Final Five being created by humans.

Slater makes a lot of sense. I'd be surprised if the show strays too far from what he said.

I might be remembering wrong but I think Moore's been on record as saying that the Final Five are way older than any of the current generation cylons.

Man I can't wait for Friday.

If they came from Earth, then they would have to be.

titbit from Tvguide:

I've been sworn to secrecy by my Sci Fi moles, but let's say this: Just because Earth is scorched doesn't mean the burnt parts don't contain clues — clues that are very significant for our intrepid explorers

You need to watch something other than science fiction shows. B5 and DS9 were so not the first shows to do that, and are far from the only ones.

Anyway, just finished the entire show (so far) that have been aired. Glad I chose the right time, I won't ever have to endure those damned hiatuses. Then again I'm gonna have to get used to the one episode on a weekly basis instead of DVD marathons.

Anyone remember the season 2 episode 'The Farm' when Starbuck is kidnapped on Caprica and prepared for breeding?

The Cylons made two incisions, and the second one was never explained, but she wondered what it was. Probably nothing to do with her resurrection, but interesting.

The reveal of the final cylon is pointless anyhow. Now that the resurrection hub is gone, cylons are identical to humans in all respects and I think that is the point the show is making.

I disagree because we know that the final five are different from the previous seven. Whether they can resurrect or not has been irrelevant since they were introduced.

Well, shit. Now I'm going to be disappointed if it's anyone else.

Oh, and I've seen tomorrow night's premiere. It definitely jibes with what Olmos said about the last ten being a fistful of downers.

How convenient that they are whittling down the models so that there is only one representation of each one. That stuck out like a sore thumb and must figure into the plot somehow.

Does anyone else feel like maybe they should've made the Final Five the Final Three or so? It just seems like with the whittling down of the cast and one more major person to be revealed to be a Cylon, when all is said and done we will have like 2 surviving well-developed "human" human characters left, and if that's the case, it lessens the impact of everything for me.

I know the Cylons are for most purposes exactly like humans, and it's not like I can't empathize with Tigh or the Chief after the reveal. But if the grand point of the show turns out to be that there is no difference between people and a kind of fictional synthetic people, it makes the whole thing seem kind of pointless, no?

I still have my money on Gaeta or...Kendra Shaw.

I mean really, they make her the main character of Razor and then kill her off? I mean I get that it's a standalone thing and she wasn't meant to survive...but how neat would it be if they tied it together that way?

I doubt it will be any of the main actors. Both because Moore said it wasn't, and because that'd just be too obvious.

It's gotten to the point for me that I would be mildly disappointed if it wasn't Gaeta.

I like to think that this ties into the over-arching theme of the show of "everything happened before and will happen again" - or "Children are there to replace their parents".

Cylons and Humans are different by everything the show has laid out so far. But I think the final act of the show will be about those antagonistic blocs coming together for the final journey and kicking of a new cycle. The "cross-breeds" like Hera will be the first of the new beginning not unlike what the now final five might have been centuries ago.

See, I think that's a little too sci-fi-y for me. Because Cylons aren't real; they were made up or the show. And I think the show's ultimate message should be something about the real human race, not a fictitious human race's relationship to a fictitious race of psuedohumans. Trying to apply the show's message to the real world, it seems like it's saying that incest will make everything alright in the end.

I know it would still have some relevance relating to the Other and demonizing your enemy in times of war, but it would feel like kind of a cheat. It would make any debate about the humanity of the skinjobs seem completely artificial, since there is no real-world counterpart to such a thing. Because of this, our understanding of them is limited entirely to what the show tells us about them, and proving that understanding to be incorrect will only be a matter of scolding us for accepting the fictional reality it originally presented us.

The Cylons are not responsible for either the final five or Starbuck, so who is? Who is the hidden player in this game, is it God or Earthlings?

See, your second paragraph lays out the answer to your concern laid out in paragraph one!

The Other is a huge issue for the Human Race in 2009. I see it in the Bay Area every day. This is one of most "Liberal" parts of the US, yet there is a degree of intolerance here for people of "different" religions (for example) that is depressing. I can't imagine what it's like in freaking Kansas.

There are people in the US today who thing Muslims are all (ALL) blodd thirsty maniacs who want to destroy America and stone any woman who alks in the street with her head uncovered. There are Muslims who want exactly that. But there are many more who feel differently, and many many shades in between. Just like the Cylon models in BSG

I'm fairly certain it's Zarek. I also think the fifth is pretty unimportant at this point, so far as what the show is trying to get at with these last 10 episodes. "Who is the fifth" is a marketer's obvious angle, so it's getting a lot of the light.

But to chime in with my own little observation, spinning off Slater's spec:

I think if you're gonna pick an Adama, you'd pick Lee. Especially if you're tying it back into Caprica. For one, what Greystone (Stoltz's character) is doing has a lot more to do with downloading consciousnesses than creating bodies for them to go in. Secondly--Jamie Bamber is physically closer to Eric Stoltz than either Esai Morales or Young Eddie Olmos.

If Lee is the fifth (or the first, if you will) maybe he's a version of Stoltz's kid, given to Bill's wife in pregnancy, somehow.

But I don't think it's Lee, or Bill. It's probably Tom Zarek. because I see Ron Moore loving the idea of making the only classic Battlestar actor on the set be the last Cylon on the fleet. He almost made Dirk Benedict the Cylon God back in season 1.

Well, it would explain how a Mexican dude can have an extremely white, British son.

There have been rumors than Zak Adama is going to appear in the last couple of episodes. I wonder what that could be that about.

It could be about...spoiler that shit just in case the rumor is true!

I was really getting at 2 different issues. One is that our core human cast is down to the Adamas, Roslin, Helo, Starbuck, Baltar, and if you want to count them, Gaeta and Dualla. Now, I don't think it's stretching things too far to assume that by the end, Roslin and one of the others will be dead, and yet another will be a Cylon. That will leave us with maybe 4 well-developed, sympathetic human characters at series end, compared to the 9 Cylons.

The other is what making the show feel like it was ultimately more about the Cylons than humans does. Imo, it lessens its relevance to have the focus more on the sci-fi elements over the human ones. Any new insights into what it means to be a Cylon are going to feel cheap because the show invented them and can make being one whatever they want. They don't have that convenience with the human characters, of whom there are less and less these days.

Ah OK, got ya. Of course at this point the most complex, interesting and "human" characters are the Cylons. Compare the story arcs of Tigh and Tyrol vs. the Adamas, Roslin and even Baltar.

Tyrol and Tigh were two of my favorite characters before the reveal. I guess my gripe is kind of about having Adama being the only human character left I fully sympathize with. The others all have a bit too much boring or crazy in them for me to really latch on to.

My other complaint is that for all the talk about what it means to be one of the Final Five, so far it doesn't seem to mean anything tangible. They have no knew knowledge of themselves, Earth or the Cylons, and have shown no signs of having programming they are powerless to resist like Boomer. I know this is partly what the last 10 eps are for, but right now I'd have to ask what the point of making them the Five was. If being a Cylon doesn't change anything at all about a person, then all of this angst seems to be a bunch of wankery.

This has been something tapping away at the back of my head for a while too, which I've been trying to ignore until the last 10 eps. It seemed like the only aspect of being part of the Five that they really explored was what it's like to suddenly find out you're a Cylon. Although now that they're out in the open I'm hoping they'll have more freedom to explore what makes them "unique."

So far, from what I can tell the final five are beacons, leading humanity and Cylons to the new world. Hopefully there's more to them than that.

AICN just gave this episode 5 stars. And it appears that the final Cylon will be revealed in the last scene tonight.

The five didn't lead them to shit. Kara's viper led everyone to earth. Also, is Six really pregnant with Tigh's baby? They have only 10 episodes to wrap up a lot of gobbledygook.

I think I know where you are heading with this as you have elaborated later on in this thread.

But I don´t think this and what I have said before are mutual exclusive. What I have been speculating before is basicly the "outward" journey or mythology as a whole for the lack of a better term. Nonetheless the "inward" journey of the characters is still something that could tell a profound human tale. Albeit you seem to feel that whatever that journey might be it might be lessened by the few remaining straight human characters. But since these characters are the anchor of the show as well and they only have 10 episodes left to tell I don´t really see the downside. I prefer a well worked story hung up on those four rather than scattered fragments somewhat like we have seen in the first half of season 4.

Furthermore I think that the reveal of the final cylons is actually something very interesting for these characters. Granted it is not human but by definition Cylon now but it could still be very interesting in terms of how people (or rather beings in that case) cope with the evolution of their very core, or soul.

But this is all mere speculation at this point and I wouldn´t be surprised if all of this unravels in ways I could have never guessed. And I would be perfectly fine with this as long as the story will be wrapped up like this great show deserves. Tonight can´t come fast enough.

And they led them to Kara's viper. Either way, that's pretty much all they've done so far.

Though, let's think this through, people:

* The final Cylon is not one of the main characters.

* S/he was not "triggered" by "All Along The Watchtower."

* S/he would not have been aboard the

Galactica when the activation occurred, the way Tigh, Tyrol, Anders, and Tory were.

* This probably means s/he was always aware of what s/he was.

* Which makes him/her the "control" Cylon. The only one who really knows what's truly going on.
Taking the above into account, the final Cylon has to be someone whose inner thoughts, whose psyche, hasn't truly been revealed to the audience. S/he also has to be good at manipulating people. And it'd have to be someone who was off-ship when the activation happened, and who likewise wouldn't have been "summoned" to the room where the revelation occurred.

It's Romo Lampkin.

Remember too, Ron Moore insists none one of the main characters are the final Cylon:

"Moore swears it isn't one of the show's primary humans. Not Starbuck or President Roslin. Not Admiral Adama (Edward James Olmos) or his son, Lee (Jamie Bamber). Or even the ever-dubious, Cylon-shagging Gaius Baltar (James Callis)" [Michael Ausiello, TVGuide.com].
They are feinting too much for Kara to be a Cylon, so she's been run through the wringer, but is still human. Of course, since a major part of the show is paranoia over who's a Cylon, simply having a final, unrevealed model is crucial to the dynamic, even if it turns out to be Bob from Accounting.

Also, Romo himself allegedly had a wife and two daughters, and the series has established that Cylons can procreate with humans when "love" is present. And the Final Five can even procreate with other Cylons, unlike the seven known GenoCylon models.

Tom Zarek is my other pick for the Final Model, as he fits exactly the same criteria, but based on what we're hearing about the new Caprica series, there's apparently an established, known Zarek family lineage already present in the Colonies, unless the Tom we know on BSG is some sort of clone of an original Tom Zarek.

I wouldn't mind the final stretch being an intimate story about a couple of characters, except the show has always been such a sprawling ensemble piece. I just worry that if when the curtain drops, we're left with just Kara, Lee and Helo as our representatives of the human race, then it won't matter whether there are 30,000 others in the background. It will leave me with the feeling that the whole journey was more for the Cylons' benefit and development than the human characters (a feeling that was growing throughout the 4th season for me). And I think that's cheap, because as I said, they can make being a Cylon mean whatever they want. If they stick to the humans, we can still call bullshit if something rings false.

Not that I don't like the Cylon material. It's some of my favorite stuff, but as things wind down I'd like the see the focus return to the humans. That, and I want the Final Five to stop being such completely reactive characters.