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Gender issues, sexuality and violence in the X-Men series - Page 2

post #51 of 100
Thread Starter 
I'm not saying a hero can't be hedonistic. It's the nature of mainstream comic book properties that doesn't allow it.

At the same time, however, these funny books written for kids are written by adults, and sometimes they can't help but let a little bit of their Id in. Take all the sexual easter eggs in Disney movies, or the S&M imagery in early Wonder Woman. It was Devin, I believe, that pointed out Joel Schumacher's emphasis on Batman's sexual deviancy in Batman Forever.

Watchmen is the key here. There's a fine line between sex and violence, and comic books and subsequent movies, with their (usually male) power fantasies tap into that.
post #52 of 100
The tried it in Cutthroat Island. It didn't go over too well.

Edit: That's what I get for not using the Quote feature. This was in response to, "When will we see a heroic, hedonistic woman?"
post #53 of 100
I don't think that was the movie's biggest problem.
post #54 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca S. View Post
Why can't a hero be hedonistic? I'm seriously wondering that. Will we ever see one? God forbid it's a WOMAN on top of that.
HANCOCK, yo!
post #55 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe Powers View Post
Didn't Nightcrawler totally forgo his religious beliefs pretty early in the Claremont run and have all kinds of implied sex, or was the Catholic angle just not pushed back then?
It wasn't implied, I remember him sharing a hot tub with his witch girlfriend back in the 80s. Kurt definitely got his freak on.
post #56 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobClark View Post
HANCOCK, yo!
Okay, why can't a hero be hedonistic as a "background trait", if you will, without the story's main plot revolving around him having to become responsible or some shit.
post #57 of 100
Thread Starter 
Movie Nightcrawler was, unfortunately, a little more dour. He carved (what I assumed to be) Kabbalistic symbols all over his body. To, what, punish himself? Protect himself from sin? Piss Alan Cumming off in the makeup chair?

Something else I noticed about Wolverine. When he first encounters Stryker in X-Men 2, Stryker says "you haven't aged a day, but in my case...nature." Wolverine's claws subsequently retract. I assumed that was because he was so surprised to see Stryker, but while flipping through the comic adaptation one day I noticed "nature" was in quotation marks. Like Stryker had encoded subliminal messages into Wolverine's psyche, Manchurian Candidate style.

Wonder if they'll pick up on that in the Wolverine movie, or drop it altogether.
post #58 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
At the same time, however, these funny books written for kids are written by adults, and sometimes they can't help but let a little bit of their Id in. Take all the sexual easter eggs in Disney movies, or the S&M imagery in early Wonder Woman.
That imagery borders on propaganda, though, and I always had a feeling that it was there very much intentionally. Not in the sense that the author was trying to convert the young readers to his appreciation of themes of (sexual) submission, but that he got a kick out of putting stuff in there that he knew people wouldn't be able to decipher, for the most part.

Anyway, I want to congratulate all involved on one of the best CHUD threads in quite a while. I haven't read that much well-reasoned arguments and polite discussion since the golden days of the Watchmen thread, when the discourse centered more on the book's characters and themes than on speculation about the movie. Nice one, everybody.
post #59 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca S. View Post
Why can't a hero be hedonistic? I'm seriously wondering that. Will we ever see one?
What of our favorite cocksman, Bond, James Bond?
post #60 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
Chris Claremont was, however, fully aware of the homosexual subtext in the 80's.
John Byrne all but outed Northstar in Alpha Flight, years before Marvel finally allowed Scott Lobdell to write the coming out issue. It was never blatant, but Byrne dropped plenty of hints throughout his run.
post #61 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post
What of our favorite cocksman, Bond, James Bond?
True until the reboot, when it was all revealed to be a front for his vulnerable and damaged psyche! But I'll still count that one. Bond's obviously kinda digging it in Quantum with the "stationary" remark.
post #62 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
John Byrne all but outed Northstar in Alpha Flight, years before Marvel finally allowed Scott Lobdell to write the coming out issue. It was never blatant, but Byrne dropped plenty of hints throughout his run.
Yeah, maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to me that Claremont's attempts at inserting queer subject matter into the books wasn't about subtext at all. It's not homosexual subtextual if there are actually gay characters having gay relationships in the text. He was attempting to overtly emphasize sociopolitical issues, not score nuanced literary points.

Also, I don't see how anyone could accuse Claremont (or Whedon) of having some kind of lesbian obsession simply because he repeatedly attempted to have that group represented in a genre that typically doesn't reference it at all. I mean, if he actually managed to have his way, then continued to populate every X-book with tons and tons of lesbians, you might have a point. But to add a gay character or two to the cast? I think that's more a matter of reflecting reality than some unusually strong "love for lesbians."
post #63 of 100
Thread Starter 
Hey, I was just joking. Sorry if I came across as insensitive.

In my defense, both authors have a tendency to buck taboos and write strong women, so the two subjects intertwine on occasion. Claremont also hinted at a lesbian relationship between Kitty Pryde and Rachel Summers (Phoenix/Marvel Girl II). This was when Kitty was off to college a few years ago, right before Whedon's Astonishing X-Men. Whedon, just recently, had Buffy the Vampire Slayer (in the comic Season 8) have a one-night stand with a fellow Slayer.

Back to the movies, I do wonder what major event split Xavier and Magneto ideologically, what caused the big break up. Xavier is still walking twenty years before X-Men 3, when he and Magneto pick up young Jean. Did she lose control of her powers at some point, crippling Xavier? Was his repressing of the Phoenix personal, and did Magneto disagree?
post #64 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
Also, I don't see how anyone could accuse Claremont (or Whedon) of having some kind of lesbian obsession simply because he repeatedly attempted to have that group represented in a genre that typically doesn't reference it at all. I mean, if he actually managed to have his way, then continued to populate every X-book with tons and tons of lesbians, you might have a point. But to add a gay character or two to the cast? I think that's more a matter of reflecting reality than some unusually strong "love for lesbians."
Well, for one thing, reality is in the eye of the beholder, so the reflection of that reality in a work of fiction lets us draw conclusions about the author's perception. To clarify: To a lot of people, gay people, and especially lesbians, don't seem to exist, at least not in a way that has any bearing on their lives. As a punchline to a joke, maybe. As a sexual fantasy, certainly. But as real people with their own, distinct life experience? Not really. The people who do know about them are people with a personal connection. They're gay themselves, or have close friends or relatives that are. Maybe they research human sexuality, or hunt lesbians for sport. I think it's safe to say from their work that both men belong to that second group.

But there are a lot of those people belonging to the second group in the entertainment industry, and yet it's only Claremont, Whedon and a few others that continue to put lesbian characters into their output, to an extent that it becomes noticable even to the casual observer. Whatever their motivation, it's got to have a personal meaning to them (as opposed to doing it for ratings, like a show like Grey's Anatomy; or playing to their base, as is the case with most of lesbian cinema). So even if "love" or "obsession" aren't the words to describe that affinity (any specific term would be speculation, really), there is no denying (at least in my mind) that there is something there.
post #65 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeglosIstarion View Post
Well, for one thing, reality is in the eye of the beholder, so the reflection of that reality in a work of fiction lets us draw conclusions about the author's perception. To clarify: To a lot of people, gay people, and especially lesbians, don't seem to exist, at least not in a way that has any bearing on their lives. As a punchline to a joke, maybe. As a sexual fantasy, certainly. But as real people with their own, distinct life experience? Not really. The people who do know about them are people with a personal connection. They're gay themselves, or have close friends or relatives that are. Maybe they research human sexuality, or hunt lesbians for sport. I think it's safe to say from their work that both men belong to that second group.
They hunt lesbians for sport? Weird.

Yes, reality is, to some extent, in the eye of the beholder. But these books are dealing with a cast of characters from all over the world (and even universe) from different socioeconomic backgrounds over the course of years.

Sure, lesbians might not exist for people who live in small towns and seldom leave. But given the circumstances of these characters, it reflects reality that a few gay or bi characters are going to be involved at some point. It's even more statistically likely when you consider that many of the adventures in the Marvel universe take place in major urban areas, which means a greater mix of people of all sorts.

Quote:
But there are a lot of those people belonging to the second group in the entertainment industry, and yet it's only Claremont, Whedon and a few others that continue to put lesbian characters into their output, to an extent that it becomes noticable even to the casual observer. Whatever their motivation, it's got to have a personal meaning to them (as opposed to doing it for ratings, like a show like Grey's Anatomy; or playing to their base, as is the case with most of lesbian cinema). So even if "love" or "obsession" aren't the words to describe that affinity (any specific term would be speculation, really), there is no denying (at least in my mind) that there is something there.
Yeah, but that something might just be a recognition that we don't live in a uniformly heterosexual world. If there's something weird about this particular proclivity, there probably shouldn't be.

Does it require a "certain affinity" for a white screenwriter to make his lead a black guy? Because there are certainly people who live in small towns who don't know any black people.

I'm not trying to be a dick about this, but it seems like this discussion has an element of "ew" to it (or, perhaps, the assumption of perviness in regard to lesbians) when it comes to gay subtext. It's kind of like the Tarantino Top Gun interpretation, which is kind of funny, but also pretty childish.
post #66 of 100
To be fair, even without the volleyball scene, Top Gun is structured more like a romance between Maverick and Iceman than Maverick and....uh, you know, her.
post #67 of 100
Top Gun is homoerotic on purpose, though. Tony Scott said his look was based on a lot of Bruce Weber imagery, and the film is loaded with dudes talking about wanting to have sex with each other.
post #68 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
Yes, reality is, to some extent, in the eye of the beholder. But these books are dealing with a cast of characters from all over the world (and even universe) from different socioeconomic backgrounds over the course of years.

Sure, lesbians might not exist for people who live in small towns and seldom leave. But given the circumstances of these characters, it reflects reality that a few gay or bi characters are going to be involved at some point. It's even more statistically likely when you consider that many of the adventures in the Marvel universe take place in major urban areas, which means a greater mix of people of all sorts.
Fair point.

Quote:
Yeah, but that something might just be a recognition that we don't live in a uniformly heterosexual world. If there's something weird about this particular proclivity, there probably shouldn't be.
It's rarer than it should be, that's for sure. But that's not what really motivates them, as far as I can tell. It allows them to create characters that go beyond the usual clichees, but if that is all it takes, why aren't we seeing more of this? It has to be something different, something personal that drives them to do this, something that all the other people that share their perception of the world lack.

Quote:
I'm not trying to be a dick about this, but it seems like this discussion has an element of "ew" to it (or, perhaps, the assumption of perviness in regard to lesbians) when it comes to gay subtext.
I don't know what you're referring to with this, but if it was something I wrote I assure you that was not my intent.

[EDIT] You know, I think you're right. It just occured to me that I've been asking the wrong question the whole time. If you look at it not from the "what motivates the few of them" angle, but instead in terms of what's holding everybody else back, the answer becomes pretty obvious. I just tend to forget sometimes that even though it may be hugely popular with my demographic, the work of people like Claremont and Whedon isn't exactly mainstream. Anyway, sorry for derailing the tread.
post #69 of 100
Thread Starter 
There's really not an ewww factor. I was just pointing out that all the sexual subtext, gay and straight, and imagery adds a fascinating layer to the series (and possibly improves the subpar X-Men 3). I don't care if the fictional character Wolverine is secretly gay or not, I'm just arguing that it makes him more interesting if he's conflicted and takes that confusion out through violence. Specifically on women.

Each movie, er, climaxes with him stabbing a women into submission. Mystique, Deathstrike, and Jean Grey.

Xavier, meanwhile, discourages affectionate contact but encourages aggressive action. It makes him Machiavellian to have suppressed Jean's desires all those years. I can't believe that he couldn't help Cyclops and Rogue overcome their powers. X-Men 2 flat out says he knew about Wolverine's past but kept it to himself. He wants them under control so he can use them as weapons.

Of course this could all be unconscious. It's hard to believe, however, that such a cerebral individual wouldn't have evaluated his own actions at some point. Mark Millar wasn't subtle at all with Xavier's manipulations in Ultimate X-Men.
post #70 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
It wasn't implied, I remember him sharing a hot tub with his witch girlfriend back in the 80s. Kurt definitely got his freak on.
Whatever happened to Amanda Sefton? She was fairly powerful (if I recall). One of the many lost from Marvel's forgotten mystical side?
post #71 of 100
If I may be cynical here for a second: lesbians are quite a bit more prevalent than gay guys. As far as I can remember, they're also all drawn to be attractive (although that's true for any woman in a comic book or even popular visual media in general). Taking those two factors into account, coupled with who exactly that dying industry is selling their books to, I'd say sales are a big factor.
post #72 of 100
There was a supporting character in Spider-Man- Jean DeWolf- who was a butch lesbian. She existed in the 80's so it was all implied. Then they killed her with a shot gun.
post #73 of 100
I thought Venom ate her.
post #74 of 100
Wut.
post #75 of 100
Both wrong. She was killed by the Sin-Eater.

Edit to add: She was most definitely not lesbian. Sin-Eater was her ex boyfriend. After her death, Peter discovered that she had a secret crush on him (Spider-Man).
post #76 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by HBarr View Post
Both wrong. She was killed by the Sin-Eater.

Edit to add: She was most definitely not lesbian. Sin-Eater was her ex boyfriend. After her death, Peter discovered that she had a secret crush on him (Spider-Man).
Killed by the Sin-Eater with a shotgun.
I forgot she was banging him though.
post #77 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by HBarr View Post
Whatever happened to Amanda Sefton? She was fairly powerful (if I recall). One of the many lost from Marvel's forgotten mystical side?
According to Wikipedia, she became the new Magik and ruled Limbo for a while, and she's supposed to have a prominent role in the X-Infernus series that's going on right now.

It is kind of a bummer that the whole Doctor Strange cosmology and a lot of Marvel's other supernatural characters seem to have been pushed aside.
post #78 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
According to Wikipedia, she became the new Magik and ruled Limbo for a while, and she's supposed to have a prominent role in the X-Infernus series that's going on right now.

It is kind of a bummer that the whole Doctor Strange cosmology and a lot of Marvel's other supernatural characters seem to have been pushed aside.

X-Infernus? Sounds a bit like Inferno. Wonder if Illyana is coming back too? I just might have to check this out.
post #79 of 100
Thread Starter 
With Wolverine out on video now I thought I would dredge up this old thread, as I was rather proud of it at the time.

So, the homosexual subtext in XO: Wolverine? No more than any other action film with a team comprised of attractive, sweaty, buff young men. Wolverine himself is, surprisingly, seemingly devoid of genuine sexuality.

Whereas in the earlier (at least the first two) X-Men films he came across as smoldering, practically in heat around all his female cast members (including, creepily enough, Rogue), here he's actually in a committed relationship...and it just falls flat.

Not only does he have little chemistry with Silver Fox, but she continues the X-Men movie tradition of female=Jezebel. Rogue steals your lifeforce, Storm is (ironically) a bigot, Jean is destruction on two feet, Kitty Pryde is a boyfriend stealer, and Mystique and Deathstrike are ruthless villains.

If anything, Silver Fox butts into what is the most interesting aspect of the movie: the literal bromance between Wolverine and Sabertooth. Both cockblock each other on several occasions (Wolverine prevents Sabertooth from raping Vietnamese civilians, Sabertooth "kills" Silver Fox) and are both incapable of having meaningful relationships with anyone but each other, and their relationship is based around jealousy and violence!

Weird.
post #80 of 100
I think an interesting piece could be written on how the mutant powers in the X-Men have served as different metaphors throughout the series.

In the beginning, mutant powers were a representation of puberty, more specifically of the awkwardness, confusion and isolation that most teenagers feel. The writers might have very much liked to focus on sexual themes, but the uber-strict FCC of the time likely prevented that. The original X-Men were visually chaste and largely sexless.

The sexual revolution allowed creators in the seventies and eighties to explore the comic's themes of castigation and repression through more blatantly sexual imagery, as well as allude to more taboo subjects such as homosexuality, bondage and sexual abuse.
post #81 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
If anything, Silver Fox butts into what is the most interesting aspect of the movie: the literal bromance between Wolverine and Sabertooth. Both cockblock each other on several occasions (Wolverine prevents Sabertooth from raping Vietnamese civilians, Sabertooth "kills" Silver Fox) and are both incapable of having meaningful relationships with anyone but each other, and their relationship is based around jealousy and violence!

Weird.
Technically speaking it was a random soldier that prevented Sabertooth from raping Vietnamese. Wolverine ran in afterwards.

Their relationship is based around jealousy and violence, and their biological relationship is based on adultery and lies.
post #82 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoolong View Post
Their relationship is based around jealousy and violence, and their biological relationship is based on adultery and lies.



Watched 40 minutes of the film last night. I have a question about an aspect of the opening that I found deeply confusing.


First let me make sure I have this all straight:

Young Wolverine was fathered by a different man (Played by Liev Schreiber) than the man he was raised by (Played by Hugh Jackman).

Young Wolverine accidentally kills his biological father in revenge for the death of the man he believed was his father.

Why is Wolverine's non biological father played by Hugh Jackman?

Why is Wolverine's biological father played by Liev Schreiber?

Isn't this the exact opposite of what makes sense?
post #83 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Kate View Post
Isn't this the exact opposite of what makes sense?
This pretty much sums up my feelings on the movie.
post #84 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick View Post
This pretty much sums up my feelings on the movie.
I know what you mean, but it's just so jaw droppingly confounding, I have no explanation for it. How do you spend 200 million dollars making a film, and at no point during production does anyone say "Wait, why would he grow up to look exactly like his non biological father?"

I know my answer should just be "It's a dumb movie, forget about it" but I am really wondering if there was some kind of thought process that brought about that film making decision. And if there was, was it informed by a logic so complex that most human minds cannot begin to fathom it?
post #85 of 100
The fathers weren't played by Jackman and Schreiber. They just look really similar. Stupidly so.
post #86 of 100
Thread Starter 
Here's the real question:

If Wolverine is born James Howlett because his parents were Mr. and Mrs. Howlett, and Sabertooth is Victor Creed because his father was Mr. Creed, why does Wolverine start calling himself Logan in the present day?

In the comics this is explained by having his biological father be Thomas Logan, the groundskeeper, but in the movie the man's name is Creed.

WHAT.THE.FUCK.?
post #87 of 100
Dog's father, or Victor's father, is Thomas Logan.
post #88 of 100
Thread Starter 
You know, I see from imdb that you're right. So Wolverine takes the name of the father he killed, but Victor Logan changes his to Victor Creed because...?
post #89 of 100
my head hurts.... someone needs to draw up a family tree
post #90 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
You know, I see from imdb that you're right. So Wolverine takes the name of the father he killed, but Victor Logan changes his to Victor Creed because...?
Because his father used to beat the crap out of him most likely. Which makes James' choice rather stupid.
post #91 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoolong View Post
The fathers weren't played by Jackman and Schreiber. They just look really similar. Stupidly so.
Wow, you're right. I feel really embarrassed I missed that. In fairness, I was making mixed drinks before I watched the movie.

You are right though, they did make them look stupidly similar. They had to know it would cause confusion.
post #92 of 100
Thread Starter 
So with the announcement of Aronofsky on The Wolverine, I've been thinking about this thread I started so long ago. What will this auteur mean for the sexual dynamics of our favorite berserker Canuck?

Certainly, as I argued here, the first two X-Men movies projected a subtext of sexual confusion, but on the surface were relatively chaste. The third movie had Wolverine actually rejecting the wild advances of the impassioned Jean Grey. XO: Wolverine presented a scene of relative domesticity with Silver Fox.

This is a little odd, as Wolverine has often been portrayed in the comics as quick to bed many women. He's not even supposed to be very handsome, but what Hugh Jackman brought to the character is SEX and the movies haven't capitalized on that. Obviously a PG-13 movie won't get too far into his nightly proclivities, but odd that we didn't even get an implication that he was a ladies' man in XO: W prior to Silver Fox.

Too bad, as well, that the first movie didn't include Rose or the bizarre suicide of Wolverine's mother. I enjoyed the Freudian implications those tidbits had for his romantic life in the comics.
post #93 of 100
Thread Starter 

So it's been almost a year, and with the release of X-Men: First Class in theaters and now on Blu-Ray this is a choice opportunity to resurrect this thread.

 

A lot has been said (in the post-release thread at least) about the heightened sexuality of First Class.  Whereas the earlier movies chose to deal with the subject more in metaphor, it was shocking to see the subject dealt with so explicitly. 

 

By setting the movie in the '60s, the groundwork is laid for James Bond-ian escapades and precedent for Mod experimentation and free love. A sequel dealing with hippies and Vietnam would be a rife backdrop, but that's for the future. So let's document the blatant text of First Class's sexual mutant world:

 

Moira MacTaggert sneaks into the swinging Hellfire Club, something akin to the Playboy Club that opened in Chicago in 1960. She strips to her underwear to blend in with a pack of corseted ladies.

 

Emma Frost herself is a walking Victoria Secret advertisement, and uses her telepathy to play upon the fantasies of men. She also amounts to being Sebastian Shaw's Barbie doll.

 

Xavier himself, whom I declared impotent earlier in the thread, is presented as a womanizing young man. He does this not through blatant masculinity, however, but through wit and charm. 

 

Magneto, by contrast, is a much more imposing male figure. I wouldn't hesitate, however, to declare that both McAvoy and Fassbender have soft features and aren't traditionally masculine. The former's short stature, compounded with British accent and intellectual nature, lends him a leadership role that is more respected than feared. Fassbender, meanwhile, has the lips and cheek bones of a drag queen, as highlighted by the deleted scene during the introduction of Angel (more on her in a minute).

 

So the relationship between Magneto and Xavier...is not as nuanced here, it doesn't have the weight of generations, but it's obvious that Xavier breaks down boundaries with Magneto. He only chastely kisses Mystique, a woman that throws herself at him, but he shares a cry with Xavier. This is fascinating if not from a queer theory perspective then from a homosocial perspective. Being raised as a Polish Jew, I like pondering what sort of models for maleness Erik had growing up.

 

Speaking of Mystique, not much has changed here. She's a provocative character, because her sense of identity early on in the movie is entirely fictional. Her appearance as Jennifer Lawrence, and by extension as Rebecca Romijn, must be entirely based on society's expectations of what an attractive female must look like. When she finally sheds that skin halfway through the movie she becomes something far more nebulous but still evocative of the female form. 

 

While the traditionally female form, with a bit of added kink, in the form of Angel Salvadore. What I love about the implications of her recruitment scene (outside of Erik and Charles being in bed together) is that she's not just a prostitute, but a mutant prostitute that men come to specifically because she is a mutant. They want to get off fucking a giant insect girl. This is great, because it totally abides by Rule 34 and that's how it would be in reality. 

 

Finally, there's the needle sharing scene between Hank and Mystique. Very intimate, somewhat uncomfortable, and perhaps condemning on the movie's part as Hank is ultimately turned into a monster...due to his drug habit. The only monkey wrench is Mystique swearing, and Hank seeming to acquiesce to, Hank's blue form being his true form. 

 

So, any thoughts on the heightened sexuality of this new X-Men film, and where the series could take this escalation of perversion and mischief? 

post #94 of 100

What a short, meaty thread this is. I haven't seen First Class yet, so I can't really comment to your points about that film, but I do have to say that I think it's interesting that Nightcrawler came up briefly upthread, as that character (my favorite Marvel character) has always felt imminently sexual to me. As a teen, I remember reading some of the classic XMEN reprint floppies that they used to put out, and there was a scene where Nightcrawler is flirting with Rogue. He ends up tickling her, and there's a panel where he's bamfing in and out and his hands are moving up and down her body. As presented, it's innocent and fun, but it's also kind of hot in a way. I felt like X2 passed over that aspect of him to play up a more religious/outcast interpretation of the character. While I get what they were going for with that, I think a more faithful version of the character could have provided a fascinating counterpoint to Bartleby's interpretation of Wolverine's character, possibly a vision of non-puritanical (or, non-pathological) sexual self control.

post #95 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

So, any thoughts on the heightened sexuality of this new X-Men film, and where the series could take this escalation of perversion and mischief? 


I think it was mentioned in the release thread, that the sequels have a lot to play with. While Vietnam was mentioned, I think my favorite was a mention of using the Legacy Virus and mix it with the AIDS scare of the 80s. I may of shat out some ideas, but props to those who put the pieces together.
post #96 of 100

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
So, any thoughts on the heightened sexuality of this new X-Men film

A. It's James-Bond-ier.

B. Vaughn doesn't shy away from that sort of thing.

 

post #97 of 100

This entire thread has me wishing that David Cronenberg would make the penultimate X-Men film about sexual repression.

post #98 of 100
Thread Starter 

He's already got the Fassbender experience. 

post #99 of 100

To impose a sexualized (and more specifically Freudian) reading on X-Men: First Class:

 

Shaw is a father figure to Magneto. Constantly seeking revenge on this father, Magneto exemplifies the urge to "kill" the father that belongs to the Oedipus complex. Of course, this father killed his biological mother, and it is the memories of her -- driven deep into the subconscious via repression -- that unlock his hidden "gifts" which he may use to displace Shaw and regain possession of his mother, something that was stolen from him by her violent murder. After killing Shaw, Magneto finally identifies with him and becomes his "replacement," adopting an essentially identical version of his philosophy, assuming the same social circle, and wearing his helmet (a phallic symbol -- effectively he steals the masculine potency of his father). He also adopts the defense mechanism of delusional projection: unable to accept that he has become exactly the same figure of mass murder and hatred that stole his mother away from him, he projects all of his own persecutory attitudes onto the rest of humanity, vowing to destroy them for their intolerant beliefs. Magneto's powers themselves are a metaphorical representation of "distortion," a defense mechanism whereby you manipulate the surrounding environment to suit your inner needs.

 

Before this, Magneto's frustration with his impotent inability to displace his father manifests itself as sexual identity confusion, and as a result he pursues a brief homosexual relationship with Xavier -- indeed, Shaw stole Magneto's mother from him with such crushing, decisive violence that women in general are now a touchy subject for him. When Xavier ultimately rejects his homosexual feelings and chooses Moira, Magneto focuses his jealous anger on her, further isolating himself -- another textbook example of projection, since he is unable to accept that he is to blame for crippling Xavier. After this, we see that, because his emotions belong exclusively to his saintly mother -- the memories of which he could access with greater depth through Xavier, whose gentleness and reassurance is maternal in nature -- he can only view other women as sexual objects. Hence, he must break the proverbial "slut," Emma Frost, out of prison so she can become his hyper-sexualized partner, fulfilling the other half of the dichotomy his needs require (Frost's emotional valuelessness is symbolized by her power to change into diamond, deflecting all emotional attachment). Of course, Frost was also once Shaw's bride -- which brings things full circle.

 

For Mystique, she obviously must choose between two vaguely sexualized father figures who personify different ways of life -- the continued repression of Xavier, or the sexual freedom promised by Magneto (i.e., she can walk around naked in his presence). Because, as an orphan, her early childhood development was far from satisfactory, she chooses the option that lets her id run wild, fulfilling its primitive desire for violence, indiscriminate sex, and her need for revenge on Xavier, who sexually rejected her earlier in the film. For Magneto, he is able to displace his sexual feelings for Xavier onto the less threatening Mystique, the naive, insecure, easily manipulated female who is far more likely to return his feelings. Since this is a more advanced defense mechanism, we can technically assume that Magneto's actually made some progress. He only had to build up his own mini-harem of slutty, deeply neurotic females to do so, along with a stable of potential gay partners to fulfill his occasional longing for the same sex (Azazel and Whirlwind, both of whom are obviously gay stereotypes).


Edited by JMulder - 11/1/11 at 10:22pm
post #100 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

He's already got the Fassbender experience. 


And now his son is directing a horror flick called Antiviral that stars Caleb Landry Jones ("Banshee").....

 

http://www.chud.com/72987/cronenbergs-son-is-antiviral/

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