The JAWS Thread: "Here's to swimmin' with bow-legged women!" - Page 4

Yeah, I'd have to put it down to being fashionable too. But if memory serves it wasn't actually Benchley who wrote the second book - Google shows "Hank Searles", but I'm drawing a blank on that name. Maybe Benchley had story input because I agree the Mrs Brody/Hooper fuck-fest was equally out of place (though it had plenty of gory details).

Predator 2:
I'd forgive it EVERYTHING if some props-maker hadn't had the cute idea to stick an Alien skull in the background of the spaceship scene. We may have been spared the whole AvP mess (Pete Briggs is a friend of a friend, so I've heard the story of how that concept was shat into the world). The game AvP2 would be the only sad loss, mainly because the Predator is barely in it.

The Mafia was somewhat involved in the first book. The reason Mayor Vaughn wanted to keep the beaches open was that he owed money to the mob and needed the income from the tourists to pay them off. So maybe the hitman from the second book is meant to play off of that.

Wow, I didn't remember that at all. Of course, I read that book in junior high.

I didn't actually know that there was a second book, I thought Nardo was referencing the guy who kills the Brody's cat as an intimidation tactic in JAWS. Like Greg, I haven't read the book since I was 13 but that scene sticks in my head because it was so odd. If memory serves, the Mafia is trying to keep Chief Brody's persuit of the shark under the radar, their operative phrase being, "be subtle." In service of that endeavor a mob guy goes to the Brody's house and breaks the cat's neck in front of one of the Brody kids. He then says to the kid, "You better tell your pop, 'be subtle,' Kid."

It's been forever since I've read Jaws, so I don't remember that. And it's not a book worth revisiting, really.

Wow, I listened to the Audio Book several years ago and still don't recall the Mafia element in that one.

Jaws 2 involves a deaf & mute hit man who responds to a hand gesture (thumb to mouth, edge of thumbnail held between teeth, then jerk away from mouth) to kill.

If you remember, the story starts with a diver who gets gets killed and his camera takes blurry photos of the new shark. The guy who runs the photo shop only gives the really shitty ones to Brody after developing them, keeping a crystal clear photo back/for himself to extort either the mayor or someone with Mafia connections and an interest in keeping the shark problem quiet.

The Deaf Mute is sent to kill him. Marches him out into the surf and blows his head off.

The photo guy's body later washes into the boat harbor and people think his head was taken off by a shark. Brody is sure of it.

Can't remember how the Deaf Mute and Mafia situation plays out after that - I think there's a big shoot-out where the kill gesture gets made again? The Shark still bites on the cable etc though.

I was a bit of a late starter as a serious reader (13?) and the Jaws 2 novel fell into that first year, so that's probably why I can remember this shit. Didn't get to Jaws 1 til a year or so after.

Wow, didn't even realize there was a second Jaws novel. In any event, the first Jaws novel is the ultimate example of a movie being much much much better than the book.

Also, Jaws 2 is awesome.

lol, no. But as far as I know, there was never an "official" soundtrack release. Only a promotional one.

You know what's a great moment in Jaws that doesn't get talked about a lot? Near the end, when the shark has dragged the Orca around and the boat's engine is dead and they're talking on water, Quint just casually tosses Brody and Hooper life jackets. And they just stare at them, and Spielberg lets the camera just sit there watching them, and we fill in all the blanks. We know they're thinking, "Holy shit, he thinks we need these, things must be bad" as well as remembering Quint's Indianapolis speech, and they're both finally realizing they might not come back from this.

It's also a nice moment in the Quint/Hooper relationship when Quint finally asks Hooper what he can do with his equipment. It's as if he's saying, "Well, my way didn't work, and we're fucked regardless, so let's give your stuff a try." It's a great payoff to how they go from animosity to grudging respect.

There's such amazingly subtle acting and character moments going on in this film. I want to bash people over the head who try to write it off as a simple scare machine.

Most films really miss that whole "let the camera linger" moments these days. It's always cut cut cut close up close up close up.

Probably fodder for another thread, but you hardly ever see long master shots anymore. I was watching Summer Stock this weekend and was amazed at how long the takes were. They almost looked like filmed stage plays, with the camera just following the blocking.

Older movies used the master so exclusively that the closeups feel really out of place a lot of the time.

The moment that no one ever acknowledge for me is that moment in the scar-sharing scene where Brody lifts up his shift, kinda thumbs over the scar on his stomach a moment, but never shares. Always wondered what was going on in his head there, while simultaneously never needing to know.

It's an appendicitis scar. Which would be lame to share.

True, but Brody was NYPD. The fact that his only scar is from an appendectomy, while even the rich college boy has something to show for his chosen profession had to be fucking with his head a little there.

That's his appendix scar - he jokily realizes he's lived a rather safe life.

The film's full of fucking fantastic little character moments.


Long Master Shots:
Yeah, this has been mentioned a lot by directors. Shooting too much coverage (wide shots covering the basics of a scene) allows the studio to fire you once the shooting is done so you don't get all artistic. It's wiser to shoot a movie in the shot-by-shot manner that you intend to edit it.

Stylistically though, most movies are shot with the knowledge they'll spend most of their existence screening on TV sets, not cinema screens. Prior to DVD, you had the pan and scan issue too.

I always wondered what kind of deal Brody got to get hired on as police chief of a town like Amity. I love his drunken rant about how shitty New York was, and how "in Amity one man can make a difference!" I'm sure that's what he told himself at night to get over the fact that he's basically a glorified beach bouncer.

It's fun to imagine that Brody is actually Russo from French Connection, tired of the grind and taking a nice cushy beach job.

I'm sure some bright-eyed Hollywood development exec is reading this thread thinking it's high time for a Martin Brody pre-boot-quel, following him as a cop on the streets of New York before getting fed up with the system and moving to Amity. Just as he loads his last cardboard box into the moving van, he can say something like, "Amity. Finally, some peace and quiet." Cue subtle rendition of the JAWS theme. End credits. Get Adrian Brody to play Martin Brody, Andy Serkis mo-capping CG Bruce in the inevitable remake-quel and you've got magic at the box office.

More likely we'll flash back to thirty years ago, and a young Martin Brody nearly drowns during a trip to the beach. And while he's under the water, he swears he saw a large, shadowy shape swim by....

I've managed to make my peace with unnecessary remakes (mainly by ignoring them) but an officially announced Jaws remake would bum me out for like a week.

ETA: I'd never heard that about shooting wide hamstringing a director's artistic control. Thanks for the info, Nardo.

STOP FUCKING TALKING ABOUT IT YOU'LL GET THEIR ATTENTION

oh good you read Devin's article too

I've taken to the notion that using LESS close ups greatly impacts the close ups you use throughout the film itself. Gives them, whenever they arrive, more of an influence over the viewer.

I will defend Jaws 2 for the completely ridiculous way the kill the shark.

Here's my one backhanded defense of Jaws 2: the way they kill the shark isn't significantly more ridiculous than the way they killed the shark in the first movie. Jaws will always be one of my all-time favorite films, but that finale is ludicrous.

Is that the one where they throw a grenade in the shark's mouth and pull the pin with a metal rod?

I thought it was the one where they got it to eat a power line. But I may be blurring my sequels.

It's the power line bit

If we had to compare the two methods, I would even venture to say that at least the power cable method has a remote chance of actually working and killing the shark, whereas the first film's exploding oxygen tank* is pure movie magic tomfoolery.


* Even if oxygen tanks exploded from bullet hits, you still have to hit said oxygen tank with said bullet...while it's barely exposed from the gaping mouth of a motoring great white shark, many, many yards away.....

One of those shots from the original 'Jaws' being when Quint throws the knife into the gunwale, and the camera just lingers on it ,quivering there, for a significant time. The first time I watched it I thought the knife would have a more significant role in the ending (and SURE Quint uses it, but it's a 'blink and you'll miss it' thing)...anyone else thought this?

A couple of weeks ago I was at a conference in Salt Lake City, and happened upon a great used bookstore downtown. Lo and behold, they had not one but two copies of the novelization of Jaws 2. Of course, I bought one and you guys are right: it's odd. There are probably only 3-4 scenes that made it into the movie; the mafia subplot of the hotel / casino and subsequent "hit" are pretty big in the second half, plus a whole subplot about the local pharmacist, Mr. Starbuck (!), and his plans to sell the Amity pharmacy along with blackmailing the chief. It's like the true alternate universe of Jaws.

I did notice, though, the character of Tom Andrews is both in the book (a local scuba instructor) and in the movie; although in the movie there is no subplot with him, only that he was leading the divers when they were attacked by the shark.

Jaws 2 is when the shark bits down on the power cable. The shark in 3 is killed by pulling the pin on the grenade that is in the hand of a dead man still in the shark's mouth. They could have just left the shark stuck in the window frame. It would have drowned.

Dead man? Don't dismiss Simon Manimal McCorkindale.

And to complete the sequence, 4 is where Ellen Brody blows up the shark. With a boat. A large, relatively slow moving boat.

And I'm pretty sure Deep Blue Sea riffs on each of the shark kills from 1 to 3. I'm not sure any of the Clever Sharks are exploded by being rammed though. I've only seen it one and a bit times.

I've read the Jaws 2 novelisation more than, er, once and don't remember the mafia storyline. I do remember a brave navy trained dolphin being eaten, so there's that.

Ah, that's right: the trained Navy dolphin does get eaten. They spend a good 2-3 pages from the dolphin's point of view as it's chased through the water.

There's also an alternate version where the shark is just impaled on the boat too. I have a feeling this ending was replaced with the exploding shark version which seems to be the version always shown on TV as an exploding shark is more Hollywood - although I can't begin to imagine what was going through the heads of the people coming up with that ending...

I like to think that the explosion was caused by the sheer fury of the evil voodoo priest's death throes because, as I'm sure you'll recall, the shark had been possessed by said priest.

Which is it out of 3 or 4 where you can see the rig that the shark is made from as it's chasing someone?

Ah yes the implrtant plot point that never made it into the film that I had to wait 20 years for to discover on these very boards. Of course now I know that, the film makes complete sense and has raised itself to sit amongst the other greats of cinema.

Encore has been showing Jaws 3 a lot lately. I watched the last half hour, and I couldn't believe how stupid it was. Why would the shark ram an under water tunnel? That one poke caused all that damage? The "climax" has the shark swim into the underwater control center. The shark is really fake looking before in crashes into the window. Finally why wouldn't the shark eat the dude from Manimal? All the times I watched that movie as a kid, I could have been riding my bike.

A friend of mine is reading Easy Riders, Raging Bulls, and described to me how the book deconstructs Jaws as being homoerotic while simultaneously criticizing classical standards of masculinity, and yet also maintains traditional heterosexual practices and family values. I was intrigued and did a little Internet research, and stumbled upon noted American film critic Pauline Kael's review of the movie. Fascinating. 

 

It never occurred to me before that the shark prevents promiscuous sex by eating Chrissie before she can have sex outside of marriage. This, along with Jaws 2 (released June 1978) with its focus on stereotypical horny teenagers, sets a standard for slasher films even before Halloween and Friday the 13th. 

 

Is there sexual tension between Hooper and Quint? The infamous scar duel scene springs to mind: a scene that allows two men, while bragging about manliness, ex-wives and hearts broken by women, to get cozy. 

 

The shark, meanwhile, can embody the vagina dentata, swallowing and subverting Quint's machismo. Being bitten in half at the waist, he's rendered impotent as his flailing machete (phallus) has little effect on the beast. 

 

Humph. Sundays. 

Nearly any movie can be intrepreted to have a hidden underscore of repressed sexuality, sexual tension, or homosexuality if you dig deep enough. I can't think of any film involving any level of deep male comradery that hasn't been subjected to the "were they gay?" debate.

 

In regards to Jaws 3, that really is a pretty awful movie that has gotten off someone light in lieu of the even, more bat-shit Jaws: The Revenge. "Revenge" is the kind of movie where I can't help but feel some level of empathy for its director in that he probably worked his ass off to make a much better film than the one that came out but likely never stood a chance. You can only imagine the clusterfuck of a production that that one was. That being said, I'd definitely call that one the very worst sequel to a film franchise of that caliber that was ever created. When you think, not just of how great a film the original was but of how commercially-viable the property was to Universal, it boggles the mind that they could get it that wrong.

Quote:

4, I think you can see it best the moment the shark arrives in the Bahamas. There's also a scene in the 2nd movie in which the shark attacks a boat towards the camera, where you can look inside and see the hydraulics underneath.

What always bugged me about the 3rd is the fact that it never showed the big model. Mostly you see the shark from behind or it's POV, and in the super crappy shots of the shark attacking it's just lifelessly drifting against things, with a seemingly painted image used as a cutout 3D effect. You only see the young shark as a full model. Maybe they cover that in the still unrelased The Shark Is Still Working documentary, but I doubt it. I guess it'll be mostly about the original and not show much from the sequels.

JTR's hydraulic rig has gotten a bad (or worse) press over the years due to open matte TV showings (going from 2:35 to 4:3) which generally show the entire shark and sled in the bits which would normally be matted over. But even so, there's definitely a couple of times you can see it in the scope version. Poor Joe Sargent. Or not.

 

 

I'd love to know more about this myself. I know that there are allegations of a massive shitstorm between the company who originally did the compositing on computer, but were eschewed from the film in post due to Hollywood being scared about the ol'PC putting technicians out of business, which resulted in the finished poor effects (such as the several green screen shots still in the film) but I think that was only miniatures. Would love a proper documentary about it (couple it with the JAWS 3, PEOPLE 0 stuff), and while there's no hope, if they can do a four hour documentary on ALIEN: RESURRECTION, I don't see why they couldn't do a piece on J3D.

there was great interview with Celia Immure last week on the BBC where she was promoting her autobiography. She talks about backpacking across America and stopping off at Martha's Vineyard while they were filming Jaws (which a local referred to as some killer shark movie).  She then proceeds to show the photo of her sitting inside the mouth of Bruce.

 

I like to think it's down to her messing about with the model that is responsible for it not working.

They were screening Jaws at a local theatre a few weeks back that I really wish I could have gone to. Unfortunately I was still on campus at the scheduled start time trying to finish an exam.

I'm from Cape Cod, so the whole "Amity Island" location is pretty close to home. One of the many reasons I adore this film. Got a chance to see it on the big screen last month with a group of kids who had never seen it, what a treat that was.

 

After long consideration, Quint is still my favorite character. I'm most like Hooper in real life, so that's probably why. Quint is the personification of awesome.