Five Ways LOST Can Keep From Quantum Leaping The Shark

Although I tend to disagree with the way you approach certain material, I always enjoy reading your stuff. But you should think about keeping this "Dear X" framing in check.

Even as a joke, it makes you look deluded and like rubbing shoulders with people in the industry has gone to your head.

Good article. The last one is what's been bugging me. Ordinarily, I'd have faith that there is an explanation for why they keep jumping to these milestones in the timeline, but I'm not so sure anymore.

Also agree with #2. Too much exposition...like they realized they're running out of time and need to explain the stuff they've been sort of stringing along the past four seasons.

Good stuff.

Pretty much agree with all points. I hope Desmond's inevitable deuce ex machina is done in a way that doesn't diminish/undercut the importance of the Oceanic gang, but I don't see how.

*8Don't listen to the distractors-the "Dear X" approach is charming good-natured fun

Fun article. I don't think I'm as invested in this show as so many are, and I've found this season highly entertaining so far. But your points are valid, and any show that features a time-and-space jumping island is pretty much always gonna be a hair's breadth from jumping the shark.

People have said this show has jumped the shark every single season. Not that your points aren't valid, but people have said this show has jumped the shark since Season 2.

Personally I just think its getting more ambitious and exciting.

Agree with every point you made, especially the whole stalling aspect. We've seen Jack screaming "We have to go back" since the Season 3 finale. Why are we still at the same point in the story telling? And I'm not going to even go into how annoying it is to have this huge set up for the 06 to get off the island only to have them get right back on. I know this show is about the journey and not necessarily the end point, but with a season and half left of the show, it's gotta start answering questions sooner rather than later.

No offense, but you're still a Stephen King fan.

Faraci knows better than everyone shtick is getting old and this is from someone who tends to enjoy his writing.

Anyone remember the title of the episode where we finally got the first hint as to what might be inside the hatch? The one recently referenced where the light shoots out as Locke is banging away at it?

"Deus Ex Machina." No coincidence there.


ETA:

Obviously, that aspect had to come to a slow end at some point. Although, I always halfway hoped that they wouldn't "answer" so much as hint as things, and keep the mystery going till the end of the series.

That said, I'm pretty happy with the way everything's going so far. I can definitely see your points, and wouldn't say you're "wrong," but I really don't think the show is unequivocally bad at this point (not saying that's what your piece infers, btw).

My biggest point of agreement is with the Hurley thing. I'm beyond sick of him turning up "crazy" or "in lock up" again. Find something else to do with that fucking guy, please.

I'm still enjoying the show, but I think your concerns are still legitimate. The time-jumping aspect is fun to watch, but I too am missing the character moments (Faraday is the only one of the Freighter Folk who I'm really interested in at this point). Hopefully the O6 will get back to the Island soon and we can have the emotional weight added to the sci-fi stuff.

I also hope Jacob/Smokey/Island/etc. is responsible for the "convenient" time-jumping. I thought it was neat at first, but it's starting to look a little lazy.

Overall, I still love the show and hope it goes out with a bang. I've trusted in Cuse/Lindelof so far, & they haven't dropped the ball yet. Here's hoping they REALLY know what they're doing, as they claim.

I mostly agree (especially re: Desmond and the time jumping). But have to say that wanting MORE character development isn't a sentiment I agree with. We're in season 5, and 75% of the show until now has been character development.

Maybe it's time to begin Act II. More than nearly every show ever on TV, we know what's motivating these characters, who they are, how they got to the island, what they want, etc. I guess in general, I'm OK with raising the stakes, moving the plot forward and (hopefully) building to a satisfying conclusion.

at the end of this seasons...

everyone is going to be saying this was the best season of lost yet. Mark my comment.

Not letting Charlie be killed by Ethan in the middle of the first season was the first time where I felt Lost was so overly manipulative and/or condescending (in that case, it seemed like they lacked the confidence to kill off a popular character) that it made poor storytelling sources. But since then I've learned to stopped worrying and love it, and of course the manipulation is the best part. They've had the Tailies, the Hatch endlessness, hours upon hours of Jack and Kate that even the actors who play them apparently hate. But ever since they freed themselves from their metaphorical cages in mid-season 3, they've gotten better and better. The characters they've added (Ben, Miles, Faraday) are pretty interesting. They've dropped the flashbacks and forwards (as likely to be annoying and redundant as not) and they have some momentum.

I'm along for the ride. I expect certain lazinesses and although with the last episode I see the point about convenient time jumping, I really liked "Jughead," and Faraday, the same way I got excited about the Faraday's team introduction episodes. I think the show's the best it's ever been.

I disagree, but still a good read. This season hasn't been my favorite so far but I think it's important story telling for whats coming next and I certainly don't feel like the show was stalling like it was in the beginning of season 3, where they were obviously inventing characters and situations to pad out the story because they weren't sure when it was going to end.

They haven't finished shooting this season, by the way. I think there are a couple of episodes left. So maybe your message will be reached?

You know, I think Desmond will actually have to save Penny. Desmond and Penny are going to L.A., to see Faraday's mother* - Ben's there. Ben wants to kill Penny, to get back at Widmore. Ben will probably kill Penny and Desmond will then have to go back in time, and stop himself from ever getting off the island, so's that Penny is safe.

That actually sounds like something they'd do on the show.

As long as they don't kill Desmond or Penny permanently, I couldn't give a shit what they do, really.



*I bet it's the old lady Ben went to see and who told Desmond he had to go to the island.

I like the idea of Desmond having to save Penny, or something similar like the big emotional payoff at the end of The Constant. Just not universe and everyone in it saving please...

Why, should we do that, John?

Do you know something about this Island?

*Is interupted before he can answer, we ultimately forget about the question for a while*

Whether or not you enjoy Lost, this ship has sailed. There is nothing that could be done to repair what I consider almost 2 full seasons of stalling. There could be a nice reveal at the end, that is part of a great episode of television. But it won't excuse what has already happened on the show.

Yeah, I think Desmond saving Penny is a very strong possibility, because they're setting up her death like a motherfucker. Which will break my heart. I'm invested enough in Penny and Desmond that I don't want her to die and will forgive time travel shenanigans on the part of the writers to prevent it from happening.

Can I just ask, where are people getting the "island itself is jumping" idea from? Because I don't really like that idea, and I don't see any evidence for it on the show itself. The island seems to be staying in one place, it's the people that are jumping, as Devin mentions.

If I enjoy Lost, why would I think the ship has sailed?

It seems that a big problem with the off-island storyline is that it encompasses maybe 5 percent of the overall story. There's so much on-island stuff going on that the ratio is completely out of whack. At the time they pulled that creative trigger, I don't think they realized how much TV time they had to fill. If that was part of their "grand plan," they planned it poorly.

That said, I don't mind the island-jumping stuff at all.

I agree with every point of Devin's opinion piece, which is kinda shocking in all honesty.

I think LOST has basically lost its mojo at this point - there were stretches towards the end of Season 3 and during Season 4 where it felt emotional, suspenseful and intriguing, but now it is basically about a group of new / nobody cast members running around a jungle and squinting in bright light every ten minutes.

Oh, and the boring Oceanic 6 who have either all had lobotomies (Jack, Kate, Hurley) or changed completely (Sayid is now a killing robot and Sun is fucking Lady Vengeance for heaven's sake).

FINALLY, to end my rant, I utterly despise the way the writers make characters refer to each other by name every five seconds as if the audience needs reminding, or to make everything sound portentous.

Example:

"Hello John"

"Hello Juliette"

"Where have you been, John?"

"I'm sorry Juliette, I can't say."

"I'm sorry to hear that, John."

Seriously, Locke and Ben do it the most and I basically have to grit my teeth throughout every episode now.

I remember a time when this show was about actual characters and had semi-naturalistic dialogue. The last time I felt anything for the characters was in the Desmond and Penny episode The Constant. Since then, it's been chess piece ciphers shifting randomly around the board.

1) We see the island literally disappear in front of the 06ers eyes. And later we see Mrs. Hawkings trying to identify a specific window of time that the island presumably will appear in 2007 for the 06 to access.

2) In the season premiere, Faraday uses the metaphor of a record skipping with the I5 being stuck in the groove. He also explicitly says, "Either the island is jumping or we are. Perhaps both."

I usually agree with most of these types of articles, but I have to say I pretty much disagree with every point. It just seemed like a lot of words to say, "I want the answers when I want them."

It's kind of disconcerting seeing people having these types of opinions about the show when it's only three episodes into the season and the total time passed in "show time" is about a few hours. The time gap between the second and third hour was only ten minutes. Now I think it's a different thing to legitimately dislike where the show is going in general, and I can understand some of the points you made regarding that, but again it sort of feels like you just want the show to end already so you can decide if you like it or not. Nobody's really wrong though when it comes to their opinion, so to each their own.

ETA: I don't want to seem like a total apologist (even though that's the way it comes across). I know the show has a few major flaws in logic and plot, but I still have faith that it'll all come together by the end of next season.

How condescending.


i didn't realize so many people here either problems or outright have given up on Lost. Interesting.

I only scanned the article, since the author has been known to find it amusing to drop LOST spoilers without warning. I'll just say that I and everyone I know (male and female, young and old) have found this season fascinating and a popular topic of discussion, so I'd disagree on criticisms of how the story has been handled so far. When it comes to concerns about the future direction of the show, I look to past history and figure that LOST's showrunners deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Because that was a huge leap forward, designed to make you specifically wonder how the hell he got to that point. Locke's reveal at the end end of S4 was similar - we're now seeing the events that led to that moment. You may not like that method of storytelling (personally I've found it very effective), but to brand it as standing still seems misguided.

It's been over a season since we saw that they got off the island. I'm not sure how you can think the story hasn't been moving, -and- that they're coming back too soon...

Are you serious? Either you're joking, or you've been missing some major revelations. Each episode this season has dropped multiple major reveals on you, some obvious and some subtle. I wonder if you'll feel the same way a few episodes from now when some of those hints turn into full-fledged plot points.

Because people have been ignoring the connections and reveals in order to claim that nothing happens on this show for years. It's a baffling argument if you give the show's story even a cursory examination.

Well, the show -is- about the island. Also, last season focused heavily on the Oceanic Six, so now we're likely seeing a focus on Locke's group as a balance until the Six return to the island.

Anyways, it's been fun to discuss the show here for a bit. Now I'm going to go back to lurking to avoid the author/troll. These topics should be fun to revisit in, say... 12 weeks or so, when it's safe.

RT @devincf I hate Digg. Such a fucking scam. about 8 hours ago from web


Edit - lol: RT @devincf @EricDSnider It exists so that people whose content is subpar can get hits. about 8 hours ago from web in reply to EricDSnider

I thought this was going to be an 18-episode season to make up for the shorter season last year.

Haha

RT @devincf What did all of these retards, losers, weirdos, fuck-ups, autistic dweebs and morons do before the internet allowed them to bug me? 10 minutes ago from web


Flinging poo at girls. But it's more satisfying to annoy critics that give Fantastic Four a better rating than Blade Runner.

The island has clearly moved in space, but as Devin says having the island jump in time the way the characters seem to be doing doesn't make a lot of sense, because it would be landing on top of itself all the time.

Now...I guess I can sorta see the idea of the island somehow being a big shapeshifting consciousness, and it's somehow reminiscing about different periods in its life, and thereby summoning them into being, with the castaways coming along for the ride. Although that doesn't seem like it would be real time travel--they'd just be recreations of past timeframes on the island.

By the way, "I5"? As in "island five"? Aren't there actually six of them?

It's obvious you didn't read Dev's article. Season 4 sh/could have given us all the events that led to that moment. Season 5 sh/could have started with the 06 ready to head back. We have learned nothing new about the 06 this season that we couldn't have found out last season.

And yes, I'm aware the writers strike cut the season short, but the producers admitted that the stories that got shafted were the backgrounds of the Freighter Four.

Again read Dev's article. The only "new" info we've learned this season is the existence of Jughead and that there are people in the island's future with guns.

The "revelations" have been telepathed for several seasons now. Widmore was once on the island? Shocker! Jin isn't dead? Shocker! Sun wants to kill Ben? Shocker! And the others reveals (e.g., Alpert was at Locke's death because Locke told him to go there) are cool in an easter egg way, but don't provide insight to the island, its mysteries, or how the Losties are related to either.

I sincerely hope I eat my words. I want "those hints" to turn into plot points, but right now they seem like filler. Despite my criticisms, I still find Lost enjoyable and love discussing it ad nauseum. But without the great character stories that were so prominent in previous seasons and no momentum on Jacob, Smokey, and the islands mystical properties, it feels like this time-travel stuff is a distraction so we don't go "Hey, what about the gazillion other questions you've already posed over four seasons?!"

I don't expect the show to "give me answers now". But I find it a little jarring for the show to set up a scenario where the 06 */in boozy Jack voice*/ "have to go back" because "they were never meant to leave" and then we find out the all the "bad things that happened" were caused because Widmore sent his goons to kill Ben causing him to turn the giant donkey wheel, which in turn caused the island and/or Losties to start jumping through time. And the jumping through time hasn't really provided any new info other than "the island's greatest hits" (as was coined in the Lost thread). Again, referencing Dev's articles, basically the island Losties have been walking around in the jungle for four episodes.

I'm not sure how this is a "discussion" when all you did was post some words and then leave.

I don't necessarily believe the island is jumping. Just providing rationale for why some do.

Edit: Actually, another point to consider. When the island first jumps, Locke ends up in the 1990's when the Nigerian plane crashes on the island. There is no way that plane should collide with the island unless the island actually moved its location. Similarly, the Black Rock ending up in the middle of the jungle. I think there is some evidence that the island is moving in time and space, and it is likely the Losties are jumping in time as well.

Yeah. Someone posted "I5" in the other Lost thread and it stuck with me. There are six main island Losties: Locke, Sawyer, Juliette, Faraday, Miles, Charlotte. There's also Rose, Bernard, and and a handful of Redshirts that the show conveniently ignores when it wants to.

Except, a few characters have been given the shaft in that regard. I would not mind, for example, another Juliet flashback episode, or a fully Charlotte or Miles-centric episode (PREFERABLY BOTH).
I think the thing is, though, the best thing would be having good plotting that, in the course of all the craziness and question-answering, stays true to the characters, and allows us to empathize with them, instead of just wondering when Smokey is going to show up.

17, I think. They're doing one extra episode a season to make up for the two they had to axe last season due to the strike.

Lost jumped the shark for me the very moment the producers revealed they had no long term arc in mind for the series. I understand they're just making it up, but with no clear plan in mind it would no doubt get lost with cute ideas rather than intriging plot.

And it has.

When did they "reveal" that? They do have a long term arc and if you watched the show you'd realize that things are starting to fall into place.

Link?

Yeah, this is the sort of comment that makes me roll my eyes.

I can't say I agree with much of Devin's article, but I can understand what he's saying and why he's saying it.

This "yeah, those Lost guys have just been makin' it up the whole time/have no clear idea of what they're doing" sentiment crops up, typically, with people who either gave the show up in Season 2, or who (no offense, Dr. V) just don't seem to be able/willing to see the kind of work the show has put into its long-term arc.

Not liking Season 5 so far? Fine. Don't agree, but can't really argue.

No clear plot/longterm arc/Lost is 'making it up as it goes'? That's a statement that's so chock full of ignorance about (a) the realities of how network television works and (b) the show being criticized, that its pretty much impossible to take seriously as criticism. Not because I'm a fan of the show, but because at this point in the show it's very obvious that they have had long-term plans.

I'm not sure I understand the complaint about the show getting away from the character development aspects. And I say this as someone who, while enjoying the mysteries of "Lost", has always believed the show is about the quirky characters and their personalities. As such, I always enjoyed the flashbacks (even Kate's). The fact that the show has done away with the flashbacks/flashforwards doesn't mean that the character development has been done away with, however. It' simply incorporated the character development into the rapidly advancing plotline. In other words, we don't need a flashforward/flashback of some moment in Sawyer's life which leads him to accept losing Kate, it's been streamlined into the "real time" of the show. And I'm completely cool with that.

I did tune out somewhere in Season 2, I think. The interview I read with the producers revealing their lack of future planning was in a mainstream publication, as I never dipped into the net for Lost stuff. So that interview is lost to the ages somewhere a couple of years back. Good luck googling "lost interview with producers" and getting something usable.

I was digging the puzzling stuff on the island, trying to piece together the mystery...and this interview singlehandedly killed it for me. They made it sound like they were tossing stuff at the wall and seeing what stuck. They were throwing clues out and then reverse engineering the mystery from that.

That was my take on their words. Maybe when all is said and done, I'll watch the entire thing on DVD and it will make sense.

Agreed with all of Devin's complaints. An additional complaint from me:

For a show known for withholding story gratification to great effect, it has been blowing a really weak load lately. Take Jin's reveal, for example: what could have been a fun (if entirely obvious) moment turns into a setup for the equally obvious and much more ho-hum Rousseau reveal.

Additionally, the entire paternity test subplot was wasted. Claire's Mom might have been the most useless red herring in the history of Lost. The writers had no clue how to get Kate back to the island, so they drew up a temporary bogeyman in "the client," only to resolve that conflict with a painfully obvious and mundane reveal in a parking lot.

I can't speak to the interview you're citing - I've never seen it. If I had to guess, I'd guess that you read something alluding to the nebulous nature of network programming - and the basic impossibility of plotting a clear-cut path of narrative to a show without a visible ending.

But on the evidence of the show itself, it's become clear that there's a LOT of long-term planning involved. Again, this doesn't make the show 'good' or 'bad' - that's up to the viewer.

I watched the first season of Lost but could just not get into it. From these posts it sounds like the most inscrutable show of all time.

I tend to equate Lost with the novels of folks like Susannah Clarke and David Foster Wallace.

Part of the 'fun' of the show, for me, lies in the byzantine nature of the thing. It invites more mental effort than most network programming, but if you're the sort of person that's excited by the footnote digressions in books like Infinite Jest and Jonathan Strange, you're probably a good target audience for this show.

When you were typing this did you believe you were making some sort of point?

ETA: What I mean is, were you loving it through the first three episodes, and after the fourth you stood up from your couch and screamed, "That's it! I've had enough of these shenanigans!"?

Don't really have a side to take here (I'm enjoying season 5, but think Devin makes some good points), but I do recall the interview that Dr. V alludes to. My recollection is that it was Lindelhof, and that I saw it in that mutant tabloid-size TV Guide, but could easily be wrong. He's definitely right about the substance of the quote, though.