The Nightmare On Elm Street Series - Page 2

Oh, don't take my analogy as any kind of dig against Dream Warriors. I still remember Part 3 as being one of the more enjoyable audience participation flicks I've seen in a theater. People went nuts for it when I saw it opening night. Not really scary. Certainly no where near the more unsettling nature of the first film. But for pure entertainment value, Dream Warriors is the champ in this series.

Its been a while for me. I thought you were talking about the scene where Tina and her boyfriend are attacked in the bedroom.

As for Craven's style, I always liked the rawness of his early work. His films didn't look as good as contemporaries like Carpenter, but at least initially he understood Horror. He knew how to create mood and play the audience.

Nah, once she starts flying out of the bed, shit gets incredible. And the movie really does pick up from there. I love A Nightmare on Elm Street, I just prefer Dream Warriors.

I am in a constant war of opinion about Craven. I just don't know if he's really good or not. His films run the entire gamut from outright terrible to utterly mediocre to great. I just can't get a bead on him and have a tough time discerning any consistent style.

He's a smart idea man, an unfocused filmmaker, and lucky son-of-a-bitch. You can't make A Nightmare on Elm Street or Hills Have Eyes without possessing some kind of film-making talent. When he's connected with the right script, he can do great work (Scream). But he's more in love with ideas than filmmaking.

The Elm Street franchise is probably the reason I love movies as much as I do. I'm not really into conventions, but even I had to go a few years ago when it was announced that Robert Englund would be appearing. I met him, and I have the autograph framed and hanging on my wall. It's one of the only movie-related things you'll see in my house that isn't a DVD.

My favorite of the franchise is still the first one. I love the atmosphere of the film, and I still love the concept the Wes tapped into to. The idea that someone can never possibly escape their worst nightmares is about as scary as it gets. Don't want to see Freddy? Just never go to sleep again. Damn scary idea.

A few years ago, I could have sworn I read that the homosexual subtext of the second film was completely unintentional. I'll have to research this further. That would be disappointing because it's really the only thing that film has going for it (outside of maybe the musical score). I'll admit that I love the pool scene, but only as a stand alone Freddy moment. It doesn't work at all in the context of the film or Freddy's backstory.

The third one is pretty close to a solid movie. Admittedly, I've never been a big fan of Freddy as the jokester, but this one has a good enough mix of elements that Freddy still feels more sinister than not. Lots of good stuff in this one.

I don't really care for the fourth, fifth and sixth films all that much. If they're on television, I sometimes throw them on for a bit, but I don't remember the last time I sat through one of these all the way through. I guess I'd pick Dream Master as the best of the three. I always thought Dream Child was boring. Freddy's Dead is horrible, but I actually laugh when Freddy says, "Nice hearing from ya, Carlos!" Plus, the scene where Freddy is yelling behind the deaf Carlos always felt like it should be in a better movie - it's decently effective.

I've stated it before, but I love New Nightmare. It's not really a slasher movie at all, but that's not really Freddy attacking Heather anyway. Seemed like Wes realized that the only way to make him scary again was to throw the idea of the character into a new realm of horror. I still think it works well enough. And I agree that the musical score is very good.

I have a love/hate relationship with Freddy Vs. Jason. I first saw it in a packed theater filled with slasher fans, and it was a fun experience. I watched it by myself a few months later, and the fun just wasn't there.

Jack Sholder says it was unintentional on his part, though he admits that it got in there somehow. It's not like he doesn't see what people see in the movie.

I like FREDDY VS. JASON. It's a cartoon, but it's a good cartoon, unlike say FREDDY'S DEAD. It's as good as a Freddy vs. Jason movie has any right to be. Plus Kathryn Isabelle is a babe and I know Jason Ritter and he's a great dude.

I don't think it's any more cartoonish than The Dream Master, and it's better than that film. Mostly because it doesn't have someone gaining skills and powers because their friends died. Or someone using karate against Freddy Kruger.

Fuck, I hate that movie. At least some of that is because to this day I have a ridiculous crush on Patricia Arquette in Dream Warriors and Tuesday Knight is just a pale imitation. But the fact that it features a prolonged nunchuck swining scene also works heavily against it.

Freddy Vs. Jason is pure fun. Saw the midnight showing that was sponsored by a local radio station, and the theater was jam packed. My friends and I had a blast. Favorite bits were Freddy saying "Man the torpedoes!" and "Hey, asshole. Up here!"

That initial Freddy Vs. Jason viewing really was fun. Yeah, it was a bad movie, but the crowd was loud and ready to have a blast. Audiences like that will put you right in the mood for this stuff.

Watching it by myself, though, was a bad decision. I don't think I could ever do that again.

There must be a good Nightmare book out there that holds the answers of how it turned out the way it did. Plus, I really want to know why that bird exploded. That still might be the biggest "What the fuck" moment in the entire series, which is saying quite a lot.

I just watched SHOCKER. What a terrible, terrible film on almost every level.

I can't remember where I read it, so take this with however many grains of salt you wish, but I think it was editor Bob Brady (gay) who saw the homo erotic subtext of the film that neither the director nor writer intended, and really brought it out in the editing.

Sort of like the incredibly glamorous cocaine montage he made for the middle of Superfly, it simultaneously undercuts the movie's intentions and makes the movie a lot more interesting.

I don't even think Freddy was annoying in Dream Master. He was his MTV self, but he was still the villain. My threshold with Freddy is that he can crack jokes as long as he still wants to kill you in the end. Nightmare 5 crosses that line. Chasing comic book kid on the skateboard, he disappears instead of slashing him so he can make more jokes.

And against all odds, I think Nightmare 2 actually has the best Krueger.

I was more in the Monica Keena fan club myself but as far as characters go, Freddy Vs. Jason is the worst. It's only redeeming value is the long-awaited battle between the two and even that is a bit of a letdown as we don't get Kane Hodder as Jason, this go around. There isn't enough Jason for it to work as a Friday film and as a Nightmare one, it seems to rush through things way too quickly.

Dream Warriors is easily the best of the sequels. Some of the kid fantasy stuff is a bit hokey but all the first act stuff where we hear and see all these horror stories of these kids grasping with the idea that they will be killed if they sleep is real quite chilling. Freddy's Revenge is clearly just not the right fit for the series. Shoulder didn't understand the concept at all as he has since admitted. The remaning films all are entertaining in their own right. I applaud Craven for trying to reestablish control of his creation with New Nightmare but it was too little, too late. The public had already embraced the wise-cracking Freddy.

While it's the worst sequel, you may have a valid point here. It's more the script and the filmmakers' ignorance of Freddy's mythology that kill this sequel. Well, that and all the homoerotic stuff. But Englund is aces here. He really takes joy in torturing the protagonist here. If they'd have inserted this incarnation of Krueger into one of the better sequels, they might have had something.

Jason's in it more than Freddy and Kane Hodder is really, really not essential. That is all.

Wasn't the dude in the dark suit/glasses a cop? Nancy gets grabbed by Rob a second later, then the cops show up and arrest him.

Although 4 & 5 aren't exactly good movies, per se, they're great spectacles. Also get a kick out of how 1 and 3-5 have an ongoing story with recurring characters. I admit to a crush on Lisa Wilcox as Alice back in the day. 4 & 5 introduced the interesting idea (that was subsequently ignored by 6 and FvJ) that the children of the parents that murdered Freddy were all dead, thus ending the curse, and he had to use carriers like Alice/Alice's baby to stick around.

I admit, as well, that the ideas of dream gates and guardians and all that shit intrigued me. Was Freddy just supposed to be a guard dog but was overstepping his bounds by killing? Also, Arquette's Kristen says to Nancy "I'll dream you to a wonderful place" at the end of part 3. Well...where did she go? I understand Heather probably didn't want to come back. I've always imagined that New Nightmare depicted not the "real world" but a little purgatory in the dreaming that Nancy and Freddy had gotten themselves stuck in after the ending of the series.

Too much fanwank?

Yes. You've already thought about it a lot more than the filmmakers did.

I also recall hearing that Peter Jackson worked on a Nightmare on Elm Street Part 6 script (pre-Freddy's Dead) where Krueger had lost his powers and kids were purposefully having nightmares just so they could kick his ass.

An idea that I recall seeing in the beginning of Freddy vs. Jason.

This is correct.

What? Source.

Not sure about the Peter Jackson script, but an earlier draft of the Freddy's Dead we got had the John Doe character as Jacob, Alice's son from NOES 5. Maybe that's where the "ten years later" concept comes from. Also, Kincaid, Joey and Mohawk chick returned as "dream police" (yeah, like the Cheap Trick song) that were Freddy's anti-thesis. Or something.

I don't find any of the films particularly scary (although I agree that Freddy is at his most menacing in the second film), but the only one that is really FUN to watch is 'Dream Warriors'. Robert Englund really latches onto the humorous aspects of Freddy in this film; he delivers his one-liners with obvious glee. The 'good guys' are a bit more diverse and interesting in this film than in the others, and their deaths are a bit more imaginative. Also, it must be said that the nurse has one of the best chests ever committed to an R-rated film.

And I LOVE the Dokken song.

What? Source.

Thanks Spike for reviving my interest in this series. I know I have 1,2,3 and NN on disc. I shall have to load them up for a (re)viewing this weekend.

Around Halloween of last year, I did a rewatch of the Nightmare series. I think the thing that most surprised me is that Freddy is not nearly as jokey as people seem to think. To be sure, he gets progressively sillier as the series progresses, culminating in the wretched Freddy's Dead, but he's never the relentlessly punning monster we all have stuck in our heads. I think our perceptions stem from what New Line permitted to happen to the character: the neverending stream of merchandising, the MTV series, etc... essentially, whatever needed to happen to insure the character's marketability across the widest possible spectrum of consumers.

In Dream Warriors, he uses a TV to kill someone and then says "This is your big break in TV! Welcome to Prime Time, bitch!"

I think that sort of thing speaks for itself.

The troubles with FVJ (and I probably like it more than most here) all lie in execution. The script's general idea is pretty good. It's certainly a Nightmare film moreso than a Friday one -- Freddy's the villain of the movie, the Hypnocil plot thread comes back, etc. -- but it aspires to be a Friday, meaning awful acting. Say what you will about ANOES as a whole, but the series' acting was usually much better than Friday.

The acting in FVJ is totally on par with a Nightmare film. Even the original NOES has some uneven performances.

They were uneven, but nobody was as outright laughable as the entire cast of FVJ.

Have you not seen FREDDY'S REVENGE? I have. Recently. Jesse= laughable. And not just in the "unintentional" homo-erotic way.

Though also in the unintentional homoerotic way.

I still think Freddy vs. Jason is a hell of a lot of fun, and I don't find the performances all that distracting. I will admit that I was surprised when I later watched Undeclared and discovered that Monica Keena is actually sort of talented.

If you ran away from home and found your coach at a leather club and then he forced you to go back to the gym and run laps after midnight, you'd be pretty pathetic too.

Actually, on that note, can we stop talking about homo-erotic "subtext"? That shit was right out in the open and threatening to punch your mom in the throat.

Anybody remember the TV series, "Freddy's Nightmares"? I remember it not being so bad for being TV and having a $100 budget. Plus Robert Englund played Freddy in the show as well. Altogether, not bad for what it was....

I've heard that the rights are tied up, and that's why Freddy's Nightmares hasn't been released on disc. Shame, I've seen the first few episodes, and it seems like a great show.

Agree on A Nightmare On Elm Street 2: Freddy's Seducing. That's some major OVERTONES there. Still has a really scary and disturbing Freddy right up there with the first. Sholder at least got that right.

Freddy's Nightmare was a decent show. It was probably a little bit of overkill for the character but I was a fan. I'd buy a DVD set if one were released.

It was a decent show. It was on par with Tales From the Dark Side as far as production value goes. Having Robert Englund (whose schedule must have been way the fuck open-thanks typecasting!) definitely raised the show's standards. I also vaguely recall an ongoing story with twins? I'm almost afraid to watch it now but it wasn't bad back in the day. Certainly better than "Friday the 13th: The Series" which had fuck all to do with the movies.

Freddy vs. Jason might have what I think is the worst line in the series (and it's not the whole "freddy died in fire..." spiel). But towards the end when Monica Kenna yells "He's ruined both of our pasts!!"

Who the fuck says that? I know it's such a trivial little thing, but I mean something as simple as "He's ruined both of our lives" just flows so much better. Nitpicking, whatever.

When it comes to the latter day Elm Street flicks, I'd have to say I'd rather watch Freddy's Dead over The Dream Child. Granted, I'd rather watch neither, but whereas Dream Child comes across as just a really bad Freddy flick, there's enough really weird shit in Freddy's Dead to make it interesting. Johnny Depp drug PSA anyone?

True, Freddy goes way overboard into cartoon territory in that movie, but honestly Englund really hamming it up is far more appealing than the lame Freddy in Dream Child where it felt like he just didn't give a shit.

This thread convinced to see if any of the NIGHTMARE films were running on cable. Came up negative on that front but discovered that Freddy's Nightmares now runs on the Chiller Channel. Vaquelly recall liking the show when I was a kid. Gonna record a couple and see if they hold up. Hopefully I'll catch one of the few where Freddy actually had a role beyond just as the "host."

I watched the first episode on Youtube. It was unbearable. I couldn't get through it.

Honestly, all I really remember was a story where some hood holds up a fast food restaurant and says "Give me everything you've got, with everything on it."

For some reason that has always stuck with me.

I don't know that Destiny's Child broad's line about "the cops are saying it's some Columbine thing" was one of the toppers in the shit sandwich of a script. Though that kid on the porch explaining his revenge fantasy to his dead friend for some reason was probably the scene I most remember as making me just want to punch somebody. I'm not necessarily sure it's the performances either. It seems the actors are doing what the script dictates and the director wants, it's just bad choices all around. There is this one particularly awkard piece of dialouge where the best friend (who probably has the best part in the film) explains to Monica Keena about the song and says "Do you know why they sing that? Because that's when he comes for you". It just sounds like a nine-year-old explaining the Freddy lullaby concept to an adult who'd never seen any of the movies. And what's with the generic high school kid names while we're at it? Okay, we've got Lori the big-breasted pouty girlfriend and her boyfriend, Will. Kia the black friend. A nerd named Linderman and could we stick a "Tre" in there somewhere? Awesome! Come to think of it. I really hate this fucking movie.

Agreed.

I don't understand why FREDDY VS. JASON needs to be held to a higher standard of acting and writing than the rest of the NOES or Friday films. There are bad lines of dialogue and characters in the best of these movies.

I understand not liking the movie though, that's fine.