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George Will's in Denial

post #1 of 23
2/20/09 at 1:44pm
Thread Starter 
So George Will wrote this column a while back, which compares certain aspects of the global warming scare to the suppoed global cooling scare of the 70s, and says that the scientists were wrong back then, so why should we trust them now?

I've heard this argument before, but this particular column has read to some very effective debunking of the myth that scientists were predicting a new ice age in the 70s: here, for instance, or here. So thanks, George Will, for providing a valuable public service and helping us definitively put this talking point to rest.
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post #2 of 23
2/20/09 at 3:18pm
Will is channeling Vera from Delores Claiborne: "Sometimes, Delores, being a bitch is all a woman has to hold onto."
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post #3 of 23
2/20/09 at 3:56pm
I love it when people with zero qualifications, using no facts whatsoever and a completely faulty methodology pull conclusions out of their asses.

No matter how many times their moronic arguments get shot down their false belief in their intelligence still manages to prop them up.
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post #4 of 23
2/20/09 at 4:00pm
I just love the idea that for some reason global warming is a political issue, and why conservatives are so dead-set against conservation.

As I've said elsewhere, I wish Al Gore would issue a declaration that people should never, ever strike themselves repeatedly in the head with a ball-peen hammer, just to see the resulting dented wingnut craniums.
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post #5 of 23
2/20/09 at 4:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
I just love the idea that for some reason global warming is a political isuue, and why conservatives are so dead-set against conservation.
I know. The word conserve is in both names!
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post #6 of 23
2/20/09 at 4:30pm
<rim shot>
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post #7 of 23
2/20/09 at 6:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
I just love the idea that for some reason global warming is a political issue, and why conservatives are so dead-set against conservation.
You don't think our consumerism is responsible at all?
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post #8 of 23
2/20/09 at 6:16pm
Oh absolutely. What I don't understand is why the idea of global warming seems to split down political lines.

To clarify: I don't see liberals "blaming" conservatives for global warming, merely being incensed at their refusal to accept the scientific evidence. Conservatives, on the other hand, seem to think global warming is some liberal myth dreamed up to make research scientists rich off of government grants. They don't like the science because it supports something liberals want to see addressed, so they deny it outright. It's baffling and frustrating.
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post #9 of 23
2/20/09 at 8:38pm
I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, but it is starting to seem like they are reasonably paid off by the oil companies. Certainly there are quite a few Republicans in bed with them...
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post #10 of 23
2/20/09 at 8:43pm
Its just totally preposterous to blame greedy scientists feeding at the government trough, meanwhile there are all these totally honest, scientifically-credible global warming naysayers from the Climate Energy Project or some such nonsense, cuz you know, the real money's in the public sector.
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post #11 of 23
2/20/09 at 11:15pm
Conservatives are in denial that humans can really use up all of Earth's resources. They think the Earth is Too Big to fail (literally).

That's why they harp about drilling for oil: they are convinced there is more than enough oil just waiting under those protected areas.

Conservatives also believe in "Yankee Ingenuity" to an insane degree.

Global Warming also implies that there are limits to consumption, natural resources etc. Conservatives believe that's all hooey.
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post #12 of 23
2/20/09 at 11:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post
Conservatives also believe in "Yankee Ingenuity" to an insane degree.
I do too; that's why I think we can figure out a way to subsist on renewable/carbon-neutral energy sources. Yet conservatives don't.

Apparently I think more highly of the US than conservatives do.
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post #13 of 23
2/20/09 at 11:45pm
"Yankee ingenuity" is a nationalistic myth.
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post #14 of 23
2/21/09 at 12:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreary louse View Post
"Yankee ingenuity" is a nationalistic myth.
Hey, we were smart enough to let the Germans design our moon rockets! And Edison totally had the best idea for electricity, not counting the idea that Serbian dude had that was way better.
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post #15 of 23
2/21/09 at 12:33am

I'm with George Will on this one

I'm not a wingnut, but I believe the doomsday card gets played too loosely in describing where we are with global warming. Many liberals wrap themselves in the notion that the scientific debate over global warming is settled. That doesn't seem to be the case. Science is not clear on global warming and/or man's role in causing it. Science is definitely not clear on what measures would prove most useful in combating whatever problems are real. Also, it's laughable to pretend that only conservatives treat global warming as a political issue. I'm sure the liberals would never use the global warming alarm to slip through a little big business bashing. Conservation of the Teddy Roosevelt variety would probably win a broad base of support. (People on the fringe will always argue something is too much or not enough)
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post #16 of 23
2/21/09 at 12:36am
You know, the best thing we can take from that article is we knew that the earth was fucked up somehow 30 years ago. We also knew that we caused it 30 years ago. Yet conservatives, seem to have decieded that none of that happened.
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post #17 of 23
2/21/09 at 4:48am
My favorite supposed refutation of climate change amounts up to "Hey, it's snowing in a lot of places today! Global warming is bullshit!" Thanks, Lou Dobbs.
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post #18 of 23
2/21/09 at 6:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hifidog View Post
I'm not a wingnut, but I believe the doomsday card gets played too loosely in describing where we are with global warming. Many liberals wrap themselves in the notion that the scientific debate over global warming is settled. That doesn't seem to be the case. Science is not clear on global warming and/or man's role in causing it. Science is definitely not clear on what measures would prove most useful in combating whatever problems are real. Also, it's laughable to pretend that only conservatives treat global warming as a political issue. I'm sure the liberals would never use the global warming alarm to slip through a little big business bashing. Conservation of the Teddy Roosevelt variety would probably win a broad base of support. (People on the fringe will always argue something is too much or not enough)
The debate is settled. Global warming does exist and it is to a degree man-made. The discussion going on today is to clarify the finer points of the process. Mistaking continued discussion on a scientific theory as an indication of it somehow still being in the air is wrong. It's just the way science works. There has to be a continual challenge, debate and refinement of our knowledge. I mean, there is still debate going on about cancer or AIDS. I don't see anyone using this to argue that maybe AIDS is just really bad flu.
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post #19 of 23
2/21/09 at 2:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post
The debate is settled. Global warming does exist and it is to a degree man-made.
+1. I'd even be more conciliatory and say that given the scope of global warming, whether it is or isn't CAUSED by man is irrelevant; it's pretty clear that the Western lifestyle exacerbates the problem.

There are about a million good reasons to aggressively pursue clean energy, ranging from environmental concerns (a favorite of the tree-hugging leftists) to national security (which the right says they love).

But the political will is clearly lacking.
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post #20 of 23
2/22/09 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
Oh absolutely. What I don't understand is why the idea of global warming seems to split down political lines.

To clarify: I don't see liberals "blaming" conservatives for global warming, merely being incensed at their refusal to accept the scientific evidence. Conservatives, on the other hand, seem to think global warming is some liberal myth dreamed up to make research scientists rich off of government grants. They don't like the science because it supports something liberals want to see addressed, so they deny it outright. It's baffling and frustrating.
No, I think it's because republican policies would ignore the problem in favour of business making more money. It's hard to sell ignoring environmental concerns for the sake of someone else's financial gain, so the idea that global warming first didn't exist and then was either a conspiracy among the scientific community or just the media blowing natural forces out of proportion filtered down from the AEI to the White House, to Limbaugh and Fox, to the unwashed masses.

I was told outright by one fellow "conservatives believe global warming is real, but the cause is not manmade" and I believe him; I remember when George Bush said that's what conservatives believe. One can only assume that because their view on this scientific matter is informed by their political ideology that everyone else's must be as well.
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post #21 of 23
2/27/09 at 12:32pm
For anyone who is interested, here is George Will's follow-up to his global warming article.
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post #22 of 23
2/27/09 at 12:54pm
Oh shit, he's basing his response on a blog by the resident libertarian kook of Dailytech? Take that science community!
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post #23 of 23
2/27/09 at 2:23pm
Thread Starter 
I love how he completely moves the goalposts. Now it's all about journalism, not science.

Also, given the vagueness of Will's original column, it takes some stones to hurl charges of not naming one's experts at his detractors.
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