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The Boxing Thread

post #1 of 312
Thread Starter 
(I've searched through the site and can't find one - if it exists by all means shut this one down and point me in the right direction)

Barring Rugby League (including the Mighty Saints) boxing is my favourite sport. I'll watch any fight - pro or amateur. The politics of the sport are as crooked as a dog's hind leg, but that doesn't detract from the fact that at times it can be truly mesmerising. I have every respect for fighters who put their lives on the line - often for little more than pride and the desire to be the best.

A few questions to kick this off:

Is Floyd Mayweather unbeatable?
Can Ricky Hatton defeat P4P #1 Manny Pacquiao (I'm really looking forward to this fight)?
Should Antonio Margarito have been banned for life for using illegal wrapping against Shane Mosely?
Can Mosely beat Cotto in a re-match?
Was Joe Calzaghe right to retire, or should he have fought Chad Dawson to cement his legacy?
Can David Haye beat Wladimir Klitschko?
Who can stop Vic Darchinyan?
Yuriorkis Gamboa - hype or the real deal?
Jermain Taylor vs Carl Froch (apparantely this fight is definitely on) - who wins?
post #2 of 312
What's boxing?
post #3 of 312
Hurray, someone else here who cares about boxing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Foster View Post
Is Floyd Mayweather unbeatable?
Can Ricky Hatton defeat P4P #1 Manny Pacquiao (I'm really looking forward to this fight)?
Should Antonio Margarito have been banned for life for using illegal wrapping against Shane Mosely?
Can Mosely beat Cotto in a re-match?
Was Joe Calzaghe right to retire, or should he have fought Chad Dawson to cement his legacy?
I do not think Mayweather is unbeatable. Part of the problem is that he really hasn't fought competition that could actually push him to the limit. De La Hoya has been a living dead fighter for years, too bad it took Pacquiao for everyone to realize it.

Ricky Hatton can beat Manny Pacquiao, too bad he won't. Hatton has a less than stellar work ethic, and Manny has maybe one of the best ever.

It tears me up after championing Margaritto for the last year, that it turns out he's a f'in cheater. He should be banned for a year, maybe two, but not banned permanently. Like A-Rod, this man will be forever scrutinized because of his actions. Commissioners should watch him like a hawk, though.

Mosley can absolutely beat Cotto. I think the match will be a tossup, these are two great fighters that could beat just about anybody on a good day.

I wish Calzaghe hadn't retired, selfishly of course, but I also think he is missing out on a newly won marketability that would make him a mint. I doubt he is forever retired, though. Now asking me what fights are left for him, thats tricky.
post #4 of 312
I don't think Hatton can beat Pacquiao but it's definitely a fight I want to see. Seeing the rabid fanbase for both fighters in the same crowd will be a wild sight.

Almost a shame to say it but that's about the only fight out there that excites me, at least in terms of actually forking over for the PPV.

The heavyweight division is such a joke right now. They need someone with some flare badly. Klitschko is a great technical fighter, but I can't say his fights are ever all that entertaining.
post #5 of 312
The only time Klitschko puts on an entertaining fight is when he's fighting someone wildly inferior.
post #6 of 312
Thread Starter 
The smart money has to be on Manny, but Hatton does have a some chance.
For Hatton to win - five things must happen:

1. Build behind the jab (the single most important tactic and it's good to see Floyd Mayweather Sr. got him using it against the useful but toothless Malignaggi).
2. Circle away from Manny's straight right. Don't allow him to find that leverage. If he can't nullify the straight right (which is Manny's bread & butter shot) he's in danger of being stopped.
3. Hunt the body - continuously. Manny's midriff is open to question, IMO - and Ricky has always been a nasty rib-tickler. But he can't just go in recklessly head down all night without building a platform first with his jab because on the way in he'll take a ton of leather and the risk of a cut will be high.
4. Footwork. Hatton is one of the best in the business at closing down angles (even Mayweather found he had less room to operate than usual). Keep Pac away from the centre of the ring.
5. Use his obvious physical advantage and tire Manny out in the clinches.
post #7 of 312
Thread Starter 
I think Mayweather is fantastic. He might just be the best fighter in my lifetime. The guy's defense is practically unreal. It's almost impossible to lay a glove on him. And when he decides to go on the attack it's like watching a magician. The 'check hook' that put Hatton away was a thing of beauty.

He gets a lot of stick for not going into the trenches - fighting wars. But why should he when he can win - easily - by taking his opponent's A-game away with minimal effort? It goes without saying that boxing is a dangerous sport. Why risk your health when you don't need to?

I don't think there's anyone around who can beat him within his weight range. Pac would give him a tough fight, but Mayweather knows he can rely on Manny's occasional recklessness to gain advantage. Marquez is a great counter-puncher and he had Manny in all kinds of trouble in their last fight (I thought Marquez deserved the decision). But Floyd is the best counter-puncher in boxing.

The worry I have for Pac is whether he can cope at the higher weight. I discount the ODH fight completely because Oscar was shot (the Oscar that beat Chavez twice would have knocked Pac into a coma).

I don't think there's any chance of Pac beating Margarito (who is far too big for him) or even Cotto.
post #8 of 312
So glad I remembered to record last night's Marquez/Diaz fight. Just watched it and that was a total war.
post #9 of 312
Absolutely. After one round I was sure Diaz had Marquez's number. What a difference 6 rounds make.

If anyone missed it and has HBO, you need to watch this fight.
post #10 of 312
I've been trying to get into boxing form the past year or so. I think Marquez may be may favorite boxer so far. He's the same one that gave Manny everything he wanted last year, correct?

Can someone point me in the direction of a good boxing news website?
post #11 of 312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl1718 View Post
I've been trying to get into boxing form the past year or so. I think Marquez may be may favorite boxer so far. He's the same one that gave Manny everything he wanted last year, correct?

Can someone point me in the direction of a good boxing news website?
Try boxingscene.com. They probably have the best forums, too.
post #12 of 312
Thread Starter 
If Marquez could rid himself of the costly habit of going to sleep in the first two or three rounds of every fight he'd be unstoppable.
post #13 of 312
See, I think JMM just doesn't have much of an early fight game. His strategy seems to require physical knowledge of the boxer he's facing. Once he's felt them out for a few rounds he really kicks it into high gear. I do agree, though, that it has cost him more than one fight.
post #14 of 312
I concur with Molt. that the heavyweight division is a joke and there is absolutely NO ONE compeling in that division to give a shit about. Which is ironic because the heavyweights were what defined boxing for decades; it was really all anyone cared about.

This is why my interest in boxing has waned considerably. However, there are still a few fighters that i will take the time to watch and its most notably Manny P. Glad he set De la Hoya straight and made everyone realize the guy is done.
I can't wait to see his fight with Ricky Hatton; and no, I don't think Hatton will beat him. In fact, I think it should be a pretty easy fight for MAnny.

The fight I really want to see is Manny P. vs. Mayweather that would an incredible event.
post #15 of 312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by History Buff View Post
I concur with Molt. that the heavyweight division is a joke and there is absolutely NO ONE compeling in that division to give a shit about. Which is ironic because the heavyweights were what defined boxing for decades; it was really all anyone cared about.
Maybe for part-time boxing fans. Most of the greatest fighters in history (Sugar Ray Robinson, Roberto Duran, Roy Jones Jr., Jimmy Wilde etc.) fought outside of Heavyweight (I'll ignore Jones's win against Ruiz) and gave the fans excellent entertainment.

The problem with Heavyweight is that it's become an anachronistic classification. It used to be that two fighters entered the ring within a few pounds of each other. Today you've got guys like Wlad, Vitali and Valuev who're sometimes twenty or thirty (or in Valuev's case - sixty!) pounds heavier than their opponent. That's just too much of an advantage. A superheavy classification should have been created when the likes of Bowe and Lewis arrived on the scene.

I kind of feel sorry for the Klitschkos. They've become victims of their own success. Vitali is definitely the better of the two, but he's still hung up about the loss he received at the hands of Lewis.

All is not lost, tho. There are a few promising kids on the way up. It'll be interesting to see how Wlad handles undisputed Cruiserweight champion - David Haye. It's a potentially explosive fight. Haye is prone to the odd knockdown, but then he's also prone to knocking guys unconscious with one punch. And Wlad's chin has always been suspect.
post #16 of 312
The problem with the heavyweight division is also a social one, at least in the US. Most young kids don't look to boxing as a way to escape whatever straights they may be in. They would much rather take their chances with the NFL or even the NBA. Boxing, at least for the heavyweights, doesn't appeal to young black kids as it once did.
post #17 of 312
Well, the best boxers currently working are mostly non-American anyways.

The luster of being a boxer is pretty much gone in this country. Its just not a realistic sport to expect to make money doing, and the number of boxing gyms has, near as I can tell, decreased significantly.

A whole generation of kids growing up with martial arts as the preferred extracurricular activity has made MMA the sport of choice. I expect the chasm between these two sports will grow until boxing learns to market itself better.
post #18 of 312
No Pavlik love on here? Is that just because he's my hometown hero? Hopkins fight was an absolute mess but at 160 he can't be stopped.
post #19 of 312
Thread Starter 
I like Pavlik. He's a brave, honest fighter who knows his limitations and works to them.

The Hopkins fight was a bit of a disaster. He was carrying an elbow injury which required an injection pre-fight and his weight management was all wrong. At 160 Pavlik enters the ring at around 171 on fight night. For the Hopkins fight at 168 he weighed pretty near 171 (whilst Hopkins was over 180!) - that's something seriously wrong between him and his trainer.

Pavlik says he wants a re-match at 160. I doubt Hopkins can get down to that weight so it looks unlikely. The next big challenge is German-based Arthur Abraham. He's one of those big nasty fighters who love to inflict pain. He's got the right hand to cause Kelly lots of problems, but the big question is whether one of the big TV companies will pick up the bill. Abraham is a bit of an unknown in the US and so it may not be commercially viable.

Pavlik and Calzaghe have talked about a fight for some time. Again, Pavlik would have to come up. Calzaghe is getting on a bit but he retains the ring smarts to make Kelly's night a misery.
post #20 of 312
I agree about Hopkins at 160.

I would love to see Calzaghe-Pavlik just because it would be a great match, but I really don't like Pavlik moving up in weight. I'm not going to make excuses for his performance against Hopkins ie bronchitis, he just looks sluggish as hell at a heavier weight and was fully out-boxed by Hopkins because of it.

I'd definitely like to see what he would be like against someone Abraham, here's hoping HBO comes through!
post #21 of 312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenndawg View Post
I agree about Hopkins at 160.

I would love to see Calzaghe-Pavlik just because it would be a great match, but I really don't like Pavlik moving up in weight. I'm not going to make excuses for his performance against Hopkins ie bronchitis, he just looks sluggish as hell at a heavier weight and was fully out-boxed by Hopkins because of it.
There's no shame in losing to an ATG like Hopkins. He may be a bit too conservative for most fans, but his ring craft is beyond criticism.

I think Calzaghe would be a bad fight for Kelly. Joe's packing a few too many years and his hands are shot, but he's too fast and too unorthodox for Pavlik. I was surprised to hear Hopkins (who rarely says a good word about anyone) claim Calzaghe was a harder fight for him than Roy Jones in his prime. The thing about Calzaghe is his ability to re-adjust during a fight. Most fighters have no more than a Plan A when they enter the ring. Calzaghe has a Plan A, B, C through to Z. Against Kessler (who is a viable opponent for Kelly) he took a fearful pounding in the first three rounds (mostly from Kessler's uppercut). In round four he switched tactics and had Kessler reeling from some tremendous body shots.

Kelly's biggest problem is his speed. He's just not quick enough to beat Calzaghe to the punch. The last time Joe fought someone similar to Pavlik (Jeff Lacy) he inflicted nothing short of torture.
post #22 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Foster View Post

I think Calzaghe would be a bad fight for Kelly. Joe's packing a few too many years and his hands are shot, but he's too fast and too unorthodox for Pavlik. I was surprised to hear Hopkins (who rarely says a good word about anyone) claim Calzaghe was a harder fight for him than Roy Jones in his prime. The thing about Calzaghe is his ability to re-adjust during a fight. Most fighters have no more than a Plan A when they enter the ring. Calzaghe has a Plan A, B, C through to Z. Against Kessler (who is a viable opponent for Kelly) he took a fearful pounding in the first three rounds (mostly from Kessler's uppercut). In round four he switched tactics and had Kessler reeling from some tremendous body shots.

Kelly's biggest problem is his speed. He's just not quick enough to beat Calzaghe to the punch. The last time Joe fought someone similar to Pavlik (Jeff Lacy) he inflicted nothing short of torture.
You sir, are correct.

I went back and took another look at the Kessler fight (it had been a while) and the way Calzaghe changed up after the first couple rounds was ridiculous. Though it pains me to admit it, the only thing that would be different if Pavlik fought Calzaghe is that Calzaghe would probably have Pavlik's number down much earlier in the fight and it would be over quicker. My boy's got a lot of heart but it would take a lot more than that for Calzaghe, plus Pavlik has zero ability to readjust mid fight.

I wish heavyweight boxing was this interesting again.
post #23 of 312
Friday Night fights. Rodriguez vs. Alvarez awesome stuff. 12th round was the best I have seen.
post #24 of 312
I normally don't watch boxing (the only reason I had it on was because I was waiting for the WBC game) but I will agree, that 12th round was as entertaining a boxing round as I've seen in nearly a decade.
post #25 of 312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl1718 View Post
Friday Night fights. Rodriguez vs. Alvarez awesome stuff. 12th round was the best I have seen.
Not seen it yet. Better than Castillo v Corrales?
post #26 of 312
I finally got around to watching the Marquez v. Diaz fight from a couple of weeks back. Great, Great fight!! I thought Diaz as the younger, stronger, and perhaps hungrier fighter was going to pull it off. But Marquez ring experience, and Diaz's lack of it, proved to be the difference.

Marquez called out Mayweather after the fight because he said Manny P. doesn't want to fight him again. I say Marquez deserves to get the winner of the Manny P./ Hatton fight.
post #27 of 312
Thread Starter 
Watched the Khan v Barerra fight. Barerra needs to give up. He's too slow and Khan was laying a beatdown on him. The kid's defence seems a lot tighter under Freddie Roach. But the question remains - can he take a big shot to the beard? The Prescott fight suggests not.
post #28 of 312
I didn't even know that Barrera was still fighting. You're right, he needs to retire. His fights with Morales was the tell-tale sign that he was over the hill.

Who is this Khan fighter you speak of? Is he a super-human form the future, whose arch nemisis is James T. Kirk?
post #29 of 312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by History Buff View Post
I didn't even know that Barrera was still fighting. You're right, he needs to retire. His fights with Morales was the tell-tale sign that he was over the hill.

Who is this Khan fighter you speak of? Is he a super-human form the future, whose arch nemisis is James T. Kirk?
Amir Khan is British and an Olympic silver medalist at junior lightweight. He lost out to the great Cuban Mario Kindelan - mainly through inexperience. He beat Kindelan in their next fight.

Soon after he moved to the pros and knocked over half-a-dozen regulation tomato cans in quick time. Then things started to get flaky. He was knocked down on a couple of occasions by nobodies and could easily have been beaten in one fight.

Critics pointed to his questionable chin and near total lack of defence. He answered them by ditching his trainer in favour of Cuban Jorge Rubio. The partnership lasted one fight. Rubio - for reasons that escape just about everyone - brought over a big-hitting and unbeaten Colombian kid by the name of Bredis Prescott who knocked Khan into orbit within sixty seconds. It was a real sickener. The type of KO that finishes a fighter.

Khan ditched Rubio and hired Freddie Roach. Roach immediately set about tightening up Khan's defence and even pitched him against Manny Pacquiao in sparring during the lead-up to the ODH fight. Apparantely Khan held his own with Manny.

His next fight was a gimme. Frank Warren (Khan's manager) then made the match with Barerra. At the time I thought Warren was throwing Khan to the wolves. Barerra might be old, but his experience is four levels above anything Khan's faced. I guess Warren thought it was a win-win situation. If Khan wins he's beaten a legend. If he loses - he's lost to one. No shame in that.

As for Khan's abilities. On the plus side he is fast. Blindingly so. He's also extremely accurate and often puts together beautiful combinations. And he's a huge lightweight. This makes him a genuine handful for anyone in the division.

On the negative side - he's chinny. No doubts about it. But he doesn't help himself. He's so obsessed with putting on a sparkling attacking performance that he often leaves himself wide open. The Prescott fight underlined this perfectly. If he'd had any kind of guard he may well have weathered those punches (although Prescott is a murderous hitter). Freddie Roach will sort this (as well as Khan's lack of head movement) out. He's an excellent trainer.

Where Khan goes from here I'm not sure. Beating even a faded Barerra can only raise his share price. Frank Warren is talking about a world title shot before the end of the year. Most of the lightweight belts are vacant at the moment. Clearly Marquez is the premier fighter. A match with him could be interesting. Marquez isn't a big hitter and Roach knows his game inside out (even if Pacquiao was fortunate to win their last bout). Other possible opponents are Valero, Diaz or Casamayor. All of those are winnable. Beyond these you've got Katsidis, Romanov and a re-match with Prescott. All three ring alarm bells for Khan.
post #30 of 312
Thread Starter 
Scratch the above about Marquez. Looks like he's moving up to fight Mayweather.
post #31 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Foster View Post
Scratch the above about Marquez. Looks like he's moving up to fight Mayweather.
NANI!?!?!
post #32 of 312
Thread Starter 
Khan's team were looking to attract Marquez.
post #33 of 312
The punisher best the shit out of Winky last night. I don't know much about the dude but with his height he could go far in the middle weight division. The two heavyweights on before that were well, blah, I guess. That division needs some serious help.
post #34 of 312
I don't watch much boxing but that Williams guy made me watch. He seemed to never stop throwing a punch. Sure he slowed a bit in the middle but he was over 100 punches in the later rounds.

Seemed a bit wild to me and left himself open. I have to agree with the announcers that if he faced a heavy hitter he could have problems.

If he's on HBO again I'll watch.
post #35 of 312
Thread Starter 
Williams is a weird boxer. He's 6ft 1 inches, which is ridiculously tall for a JMW (Margarito is quite tall, too). How he manages to get under the weight limit is a mystery to me.

His fluid, high-octane combinations coupled with the huge reach and height advantage make him a nightmare for any opponent. He's a bit of an arm puncher, but - like Calzaghe - he makes up for it by accruing points with the judges for workrate (and accuracy).

He was regarded as the big hope for JMW/MW until he ran into Puerto Rico's Carlos Quintana. In what was one of the big shocks of 2008 Quintana handed a lesson to Williams in the art of counterpunching. Williams immediately sought a rematch and TKOd Quintana in the first round. Since then Williams has moved up to MW, where he doesn't have to boil himself down to make the limit.

His victory over Winky was impressive. Wright is an awkward customer who has made life difficult for a number of good fighters (including Shane Mosley and Jermain Taylor). But it's unwise to get carried away. Wright's best years are long gone, and he is not an especially hard puncher. Kelly Pavlik, on the other hand, is and Williams has called him out on a number of occasions. He also called out Calzaghe (now retired) immediately after the fight. The money would have to be extraordinary to tempt him out of retirement.
post #36 of 312
Good thing I decided not to purchase Pac-Hatton. Read play-by-play at ESPN, unbelievable. I was really rooting for Hatton.
post #37 of 312
The Sportscenter anchors were just acting like Hatton died or something. Must have been a brutal knockout.
post #38 of 312
I was genuinely concerned when Hatton hit the mat. This was an execution.
post #39 of 312
Wow he was absolutely destroyed in both rounds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75737CrnlGs
post #40 of 312
Holy shit did Hatton get his clock cleaned, disassembled and thrown away. So will Mayweather find a way to duck Pacquiao next? Cause I think he wants nothing to do with him.
post #41 of 312
I am anxious to see how Mayweather does against Marquez. If he comes back in full form I would have my money on Mayweather against Pacquiao. Alot of people don't like Mayweather but I have never bet against him and he hasn't done me wrong yet.
post #42 of 312
I did pay for the fight but my share was only $10 which was kind of worth it to see the utter dismantling of Hatton. I figured he'd lose but I never thought it would be such a drubbing. I don't know where Hatton goes from here. He just can't hang with the big dogs.

Assuming Mayweather gets past Marquez, I don't see why he would duck Pacquiao. It's the fight everyone wants and there's just too much money to be made.
post #43 of 312
The Pac-man is a monster!! Best and most exciting boxer on Earth. The MAyweater v. MArquez fight should be a good one with the winner facing off against PAc-man. A Mayweather/PAcquioa fight would be one of the biggest fights of last the 25 years as oppossed to the a 3rd MArquez PAcquia fight. But PAc.-man can't wait till then to fight, he'll need a tune-up fight before then.
post #44 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moltisanti View Post
Assuming Mayweather gets past Marquez, I don't see why he would duck Pacquiao. It's the fight everyone wants and there's just too much money to be made.
Not to mention Mayweather is known to cocky and in love with his own hype. I also hope to see that fight go down.
post #45 of 312
The Mayweather/Marquez bout, that was postponed this past July, is finally here,
this Sat. Night in Vegas.
I'm hoping it'll be a good fight. However, with Mayweather being such a skilled fighter, so fast, so quick, his fights usually end up being a bit boring cause the guy never really gets hit.

That being said, I hope Marquez gives him a beating, afterall he gave a hell of fight to Manny Paquioa. Probably not gonna happen since MArquez is moving up in weight. Still Mayweather hasn't fought in well over over a year so he could be rusty.
post #46 of 312
Can easily see Marquez winning, but I'm rooting for Mayweather because I don't wanna see anything get in the way of Mayweather/Paquioa becoming a reality.

Anybody hear Bob Arum go off on the UFC? Very funny. Here's a piece on it:

http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/12206453

Quote:
"For me, I look at the UFC audience and the boxing audience as being two different audiences entirely," Arum told AOL Fanhouse. "Our audience in boxing is ethnic. Hispanic, Filipino, Puerto Rican, Mexican and the hardcore boxing fan who can't watch ... like me ... can't watch UFC. UFC are (sic) a bunch of skinhead white guys watching people in the ring who also look like skinhead white guys."
and

Quote:
"For me, and people like me, [MMA] is not something they ever care to see," Arum explained. "They've watched it. It's horrible. Guys rolling around like homosexuals on the ground. It is not a sport that shows great, great talent."
post #47 of 312
I can't wait to hear Joe Rogen and Dana White's bleep riddled response!
post #48 of 312
"Bring that smack to the Octagon, Arum!"
post #49 of 312
I guess I can see why Arum and Jim Lamply go off on MMA and UFC. They clearly see it as a threat to their dwindling boxing audience which MMA and UFC sometimes overshadow. I'm not a fan of UFC or MMA per say, but to call it a skinhead riddled audience, who look like homosexuals is downright irresponsible.

Though my interest in boxing has diminished exponentially over the past several years, I still get excited over a fight like this Saturdays.

Oh, and Molt, I agree with you that Marquez could win. He did give Paquioa quite a smack down.
post #50 of 312
Lampley gets interviewed on a radio show out here a lot, usually before any big HBO/PPV fight, and the hosts have tried to ask him about MMA and he just refuses to talk about it. Always amusing.

There's room for both sports. When the personalities are there you can't beat a good boxing match. The sport really needs Mayweather/Paquioa to happen because that would capture everyone's attention.
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