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The Boxing Thread - Page 3

post #101 of 312
Is anyone really shocked that a glass jawed 40 year old Roy Jones got caught by a hard hitting Aussie halfway around the world IN Australia? I didn't think this would end in 1 but I always expected this fight to stand in the way of a Roy/B-Hop rematch.

Being that this was probably his swan song and I've been such a hater over the past 6 years or so I'll admit; I've never seen a guy as talented as Roy was in the old days. He never learned any "veteran tricks" or techniques, he was never a student of the game (which made his announcing a joke), he never had a chin... he got to where he got on natural gifts alone. Never seen a guy so fast... I hate saying it but he was a fun fucking guy to see fight in the 90's.

Good luck Roy. Please stay away from announcing tables.
post #102 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Q View Post
Floyd looks like he's gonna accept a March fight. Gotta give props, I figured he would use the "early" date as an excuse to not do it. This will go a long way to fixing up his reputation amongst most boxing enthusiasts.

Manny's side played it pretty well too, I think Floyd was afraid of Manny going up another weight with a chance of losing and diminishing the value of a fight with him in September. I hope Manny takes this one more seriously than he took Cotto... say what you will about the domination, he took way too many clean shots in that one.

May as well start with the predictions. Most people think Manny needs a KO and Floyd would win a decision. I don't agree at all. I think Manny wins more rounds because he'll be the busier fighter and he probably won't get a KO because Floyd is so hard to hit cleanly. Floyd probably needs to knock him out because I think he's a careful fighter that won't push the action and that'll hurt him on the cards.

Final prediction? No fucking clue. I can't wait though.
According to ESPN Floyd has agreed to terms. Arum is on his way to the Philippines to get Pac on board. Fight could take place at Dallas at Jerryworld.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=4705330

Who wins? Don't care, just can't wait for a good fucking fight. Sign it Manny.
post #103 of 312
Superdome is also being mentioned as a possibility. Would love to see this in New Orleans. It would be such a boost to that city considering this is going to be one of the biggest fights in that last 10-15 years. It'll probably end in Vegas, though.

I'm tired of picking against MAyweather. The guy keeps impressing the hell out of me with how great he is in the ring. But there's no doubt that his fights are absolute snooze fests! I just hope we get a good fight, if Manny presses him and makes Floyd fight and tests his chin, I could see a Manny knock-out.
post #104 of 312
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=4715684

Manny signs. We need to get the CHUD chat rocking and rolling March 13th. Guess I better start sucking up to the wife now so I can order this. Wonder what the price tag is gonna be?

Side note, one of my fav's Paul Williams gets back in the ring tonight.
post #105 of 312
I'm betting $60.

And I think this fight is going to be boring as all holy hell. Mayweather is going to be on his horse the whole fight just outpointing Pac. Unless a miracle happens and Mayweather screws up and gets caught in a corner or on the ropes, this thing will be a snoozefest.

When these two styles meet in the ring, this is what always seems to happen (Leonard-Hagler is the first to come to mind). I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
post #106 of 312
They're expecting this to the highest grossing PPV pf all time, so I could easily see this being $65.99 before the fight, and 75.99 the day of the fight. Sounds crazy but this is one of the most anticipated fights IN YEARS!!

I certainly hope this isn't a snoozefest but with MAyweather I wouldn't be surprised. The thing is Floyd has never faced anyone like Manny he's going to press the fight and maintain a certain tempo. I'd love to see Floyd get knocked out, or at least knocked down, but it wouldn't surprise if this turns out to be a stincker.
post #107 of 312
I agree with Sean, though I am looking forward to it. J, toss me a PM, please if you are concerned about the pricetag for the PPV.
post #108 of 312
First of all, no one should be too surprised if Mayweather has a training camp injury around February 1st or so. Dude's got a lot of hand troubles in his past and you know he's going to be trying to gain a little more power for this one. Hopefully I'm wrong.

As for the fight being boring... I don't know. Unless Floyd runs unashamedly (I don't think he will), I can't see it being that boring. I'm really curious how well Floyd is going to deal with those crazy angles Manny comes from. I'm also wondering what that shoulder roll is gonna look like against Manny's footwork. Will he just look like he's spinning and cowering?

Meanwhile, Manny better work on his D in training camp because he was eating straights at an alarming rate early in the Cotto fight. At least, Floyd doesn't have Cotto's power but still...

All said, it may not be full of fireworks but from a technical standpoint it's going to be really interesting to watch.
post #109 of 312
Should be a cool fight. I don't think it'll be too boring, won't Pacmans agressive style ensure there will be some decent contact? I think Mayweather will be fine in fight, but it should be very interesting. Apparently the opening act may be an Aimr Khan fight

Man he really kicked Salita's ass, 76 seconds, that was awesome.
post #110 of 312
How many saw the Williams-Martinez bout this past Saturday? Outstanding bout by both fighters, could have seen the decision go either way(cept for that judge that scored it 119-110, asshole). I had never seen Martinez before but, definitely someone I will try to follow here on out. I'm not sure Williams will ever be the same, I've never seen him take such a beating.

On the undercard, is the only qualification to be a top heavyweight contender obesity? If so, where do I sign up?

This weekend Malignaggi looks to avenge the Texas screw job vs. Diaz.
post #111 of 312
Just watched that Williams-Martinez fight a couple days ago. These judges are out of control, 119-110 is bullshit. I think they should put 5 judges out there and eliminate the two scorecards with the largest discrepancies. Kind of how a play on how they do Olympic judging. They have to do something to eliminate these sketchy scores. I don't know. Just ranting because I'm annoyed.
post #112 of 312
Agreed on the scorecard. That fight was terrific, though. I say lets those two fight again.
post #113 of 312
Read a pretty good article on the search for a fighter who is just a footnote in the history of boxing.
post #114 of 312
Well it's being reported that Manny is refusing to have his blood drawn during training camp. I have made my support for Manny very clear on this forum but lets face it... I don't refuse a drug test for a job I really want because guess what? I don't do drugs. I have nothing to worry about, I'll take one tomorrow. All kinds of suspicion comes with this kind of refusal. It's a shame and I hope it's a promotional ploy to keep the fight in the news with 3 months to go.

For any Manny supporters out there that want to defend this I ask you:

Would any of you fuck a girl that absolutely refuses to be tested beforehand? How about if you offer her 30 million dollars to take the test and she refuses... would you fuck her then? A stern refusal is... ready for it? FISHY.
post #115 of 312
Yes, I agree it is suspicious. I hope they don't find something in his blood and delay the fight or even worse cancel it alltogether.
post #116 of 312
Well it looks like Goldenboy is actually trying to sabotage the whole thing. The problem seems to be that USADA will only do RANDOM testing which is fine but that means they can't guarantee there won't be a blood test the day before, or ON the day of the fight. This is the hangup. Manny and his people are agreeing to have blood tests and urine tests but need to be sure they won't have blood taken close to or ON fight day so they want the folks that run the NFL/MLB's testing. Apparently they can make concessions that there will be no blood drawn within a few days of the fight.

Basically, Goldenboy is trying to make Manny look like a cheat and refuses to compromise. Looks like Floyd never wanted the fight. Not surprising.
post #117 of 312
Well I think part of the problem is Mayweathers camp thinks Manny takes performance enhancing drugs, at least Mayweather Snr. used to openly accuse Manny of taking drugs. Manny is agreeing to as many urine tests as they want, and he wants to limit the blood taking as Timothy said, why isn't urine just as good as blood?
post #118 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabster View Post
Well I think part of the problem is Mayweathers camp thinks Manny takes performance enhancing drugs, at least Mayweather Snr. used to openly accuse Manny of taking drugs. Manny is agreeing to as many urine tests as they want, and he wants to limit the blood taking as Timothy said, why isn't urine just as good as blood?
Urine dosen't detect HGH and many of the latest and greatest designer drugs. Many have wondered about Manny not just Floyd Sr.

Also Manny looks bad as they keep throwing out excuses. First, Manny is scared of needles(um look at the tats). Second, Manny is worried about losing energy by having blood withdrawn 48 hours before the fight. That argument is flimsy at best considering the last test is 48 hours before the fight and is a mere teaspoon of blood.

I don't consider PBF's request outlandish at all.
post #119 of 312
The blood tests aren't "outlandish". The fact that Goldenboy won't use a different organization that will meet both of their demands is the problem. Manny isn't resisting blood testing, their camp just wants to be SURE that blood won't be drawn too closely to fight day. A reasonable request as far as I'm concerned.

I read an interesting piece by Cliff Rold regarding the accusations of Manny being on steroids. The crux of the accusations is that he's moving up in weight(and carrying that power up) in ways that have never been seen before, Rold refutes this:

"Pacquiao is roughly the same size, as a small welterweight, as men like Barney Ross, Jimmy McLarin, and Jose Napoles were in their day. Like Pacquiao, McLarin started as a teenager near Flyweight yet scored big knockouts on all points of the scale. While Pacquiao was as low as Jr. Lightweight in 2008 and is competing successfully at Welterweight now, those were weigh-in weights rather than in-ring weights.

For the first fight with Juan Manuel Marquez in 2004 at Featherweight, Pacquiao hit the scales at 125lbs. He entered the ring, according to unofficial HBO scales, at 137 (or Jr. Welterweight). By 2006, for the third fight with Erik Morales, Pacquiao had moved up a weight division and weighted 129 officially and 144 (Welterweight) unofficially.

In other words, fighting in a division now where he doesn't have to dramatically dry out, he winds up weighing about the same on the scale as he has in the ring for the better part of 4 years and his in-ring weights are fairly consistent."

I think Manny is getting some unfair treatment at the moment. The guy agreed to 3 blood tests AND random urine testing throughout training camp and his only request is a guarantee that he will not have blood drawn in the few days leading up to the fight. No testing will be perfect for the situation but he's sure making far more concessions than anyone has ever made in boxing before.

Another interesting bit is that Goldenboy (Floyd's people) were on the exact opposite side of this debate about 2 years ago. When Zab Judah demanded Mosley take independent blood tests (which Mosley agreed to, BTW) Goldenboy flat out refused the request on the basis that Shane wasn't a cheater and refused to treat him like one. Oh, boxing politics...

EDIT: For those that don't know, Mosley was caught up in that BALCO fiasco in 2003. He was, in fact, a cheater.
post #120 of 312
Ah shit. The fight is off, and Manny is suing Gayweather Jr. I don't know who is more in the wrong, but Manny was agreeing to blood tests imediately after the fight. Its too bad, it would've been an extremely interesting fight.
post #121 of 312
Happy Boxing Day, everyone!
post #122 of 312
The thing is, I get the feeling Manny would never shy away from a fight. While FMJr has a much more padded resume. Manny has certainly had tougher fights throughout his career, or tougher opponents. So I kinda feel like this is Floyd ducking the fight. I don't know, the other possibility is Manny is actually taking drugs, but Timothy refutes this quite nicely. And is it even possible for Manny to do this and get away with it? For some reason I just don't believe Manny would take performance enhancing drugs, way too much on the line for him, the guy is running for congress.
post #123 of 312
There is way too much $$$$$$$$ involved for this fight to be totally called off. Its most likely just delayed till May or-more probable-Sept. IMO this isn't helping Mayweather's cause. It makes it look like he's avoiding Manny and cojuring up this whole blood test BS to make it look like Pac-man's camp is up to no good. Did Hagler, Hearns, Ray Leonard, Duran, et al ever accuse his opponent of this kind of BS?
post #124 of 312
Thats the problem. Its one thing asking for strict drug testing, but both Mayweather Jr, and Senior have openly accused Manny of taking performance enhancing drugs. Manny is seriously pissed off, I don't know if I remember him ever calling out another boxer. If the fight were to happen it would be even bigger now, but I fear Mayweather is determined to avoid the fight.
post #125 of 312
There is a very real possibility this is all just good promotion "now it's personal" stuff. The fight is still three months out and it's at the front of everyone's minds (not bad for a sport that's allegedly dying). Who knows? there is some funny stuff that's going on now regarding the lawsuit. Schaeffer seems to be throwing the Mayweathers under the bus regarding the testing and allegations. He basically says that they were just doing what Mayweather Jr. wanted... nice way of distancing himself from the allegations and putting it squarely on Floyd.

Oh... and what about Floyd? It basically sounds like he doesn't think he can beat Manny. He's saying "This guy is so good, he's gotta be on something. I'm not risking my perfect record against him." Mark it on the calender, Floyd finally admits he's scared of a guy.

Unless Manny fails a drug test some time, this all just makes Floyd look even worse than his previous record of ducking opponents did. I doubted all along that this fight would happen because Floyd is gutless. I hope I'm wrong.
post #126 of 312
I see what everyone is saying about Floyd ducking. What does this say about Manny, it's teaspoon of blood. It's not like Floyd was not going to have a test at the same time.

Neither boxer is a favorite of mine, I just do not understand the big deal of a drug test the day of the fight.
post #127 of 312
Having blood drawn sometimes creates a bit of bruising and weakness in the arm, specifically in the area around the elbow. For a boxer this isn't really ideal for the biggest fight of your life. Some people just have shitty reactions to the process. Right now my friend's arm on the inside of his elbow up and down a few inches is black and blue from having blood drawn and he claims his arm "is dead". Meanwhile, I can have blood drawn and it'll be a little sore but I don't bruise or anything.

Anyway, the negotiations go on... Now Arum is telling Goldenboy to fuck themselves and he's just going to do whatever the Nevada commission requires (urine testing is all they require). Schaefer and Goldenboy are saying they'll move off of USADA and negotiate some other way of getting the blood testing they want.

What we're seeing now is hardcore negotiating between two professionals. One asks for the world, the other refuses to give anything and they're going to meet in the middle at some point. Pretty good work, considering that during it all they have the world (including me, the eternal skeptic) worrying about the fight not happening and creating more interest.
post #128 of 312
Well, Floyd has successfully ducked yet another fighter. What a waste of talent. I guess his fans can look forward to seeing him outpoint some dude that's smaller than him for the rest of his career. I'm personally done with him... I won't watch another fight of his until he fights someone difficult.
post #129 of 312
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=4772853

They have agreed to three of the four points on blood testing. The sticking point appears to be the final test before the fight. The article reads like Manny doesn't want to test at least 30 days before the fight. I've also seen a quote from Roach that there cool with anything 72 hours and out. So who knows, I got a feeling everyone is gonna get a itch or a big payday.
post #130 of 312
Great article on this whole ordeal. Interesting stuff about the advantages of urine testing over blood testing and vice versa, an entire history of this saga from back when Floyd came out of retirement, link to Floyd's on air debate about his ducking with Brian Kenny of ESPN as well as RA the Rugged Man calling him out on radio... anyone with lingering questions should enjoy:

http://theboxingtruth.com/article.php?id=1345

EDIT: Yeah jl, I'm hoping those dollars are too irresistible. The problem is that Floyd seems to think there is more money in being undefeated than one fight with Manny and a risk of losing. Seemed to be his reasoning with Mosley for the past 5 years too, although not nearly as much money was at stake.
post #131 of 312
Very interesting article.

The only way i can see Floyd fighting is if the public pressure and criticizm is strong enough. The article does say Golden Boy may be agreeing to use the Nevada Sports Commission, so hopefully it'll still happen.
post #132 of 312
Yeah, just read a new article that sounds like Manny may be willing to have blood drawn up to 14 days before the bout... so that's progress. I'm always expecting Floyd to get out of it somehow though. I've been saying it since he came out of retirement but I'll mention it again. A training camp "injury" to Floyd will probably delay the fight if it's ever made. The guy just wants the easy money. Eh, can't blame him but I don't have to respect him as a fighter either.
post #133 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Q View Post
Yeah, just read a new article that sounds like Manny may be willing to have blood drawn up to 14 days before the bout... so that's progress. I'm always expecting Floyd to get out of it somehow though. I've been saying it since he came out of retirement but I'll mention it again. A training camp "injury" to Floyd will probably delay the fight if it's ever made. The guy just wants the easy money. Eh, can't blame him but I don't have to respect him as a fighter either.

It's funny someone today asked Arum about why Pac gave blood two weeks before the Hatton fight. The proof of this is on the HBO show 24/7, it wasn't a teaspoon it was a vile. Arum had to throw Manny under the bus on that one.
Big discussion at the boxing scene about it. Seems to make Manny look bad.
post #134 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl1718 View Post
It's funny someone today asked Arum about why Pac gave blood two weeks before the Hatton fight. The proof of this is on the HBO show 24/7, it wasn't a teaspoon it was a vile. Arum had to throw Manny under the bus on that one.
Big discussion at the boxing scene about it. Seems to make Manny look bad.
Honestly, Manny lets everyone talk for him. Who the hell knows what he has actually been saying. Everyone seems to be so full of shit in these negotiations. First it was that he was afraid of needles, then it was superstition, then it was the length of time before the fight, then it was no blood tests, now it's 14 days... I doubt Arum kept going back to him to get a new excuse, you know? Arum is a shrewd negotiator so I'm assuming he just ran the whole show... Schaefer too. They just need to get this shit done or everyone; Floyd, Manny and boxing... they all come out looking bad.
post #135 of 312
So now Goldenboy is planting shit in the press that Manny's representatives requested a dirty test be "kept secret". NO ONE would request that. These guys are scumbags, I can't imagine this fight getting made. Goldenboy's people have done everything in their power to make sure Manny won't work with them. Anything to protect your fighter I guess. We all know how the spin is going to be but lets face it, there is only one superstar in the sport that can't seem to make any fights with top fighters and that's Floyd. And don't give me any "they don't really wanna fight him" nonsense, EVERYONE wants to fight him. I swear, I'm not watching another one of his fights until he fights Mosley or Manny. His legacy will always be one of a talented fighter that ducked his toughest opposition at their peaks. The small article regarding the planted information is linked below:

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=24414
post #136 of 312
Yea, its a ridiculous thing to claim. There are some interesting interviews with Floyd on youtube, and its seriously unbelievable how pathetic his excuses are.
post #137 of 312
This says about as much as you need to know about Manny and Floyd...

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=24512

So, if and when the biggest fight in the world falls apart these guys need to go on and fight someone else. Manny chooses to fight a guy that will come into the fight at 170lbs and Floyd chooses a guy that has 5 KO's in 30 fights. Yup, everything is as it should be here.

At least when Manny was going to fight Paulie you could make a case that he was preparing for Floyd by taking on a speedy defensive fighter. Floyd isn't preparing for anyone, he's just taking another fight where he can't get hurt. Gutless.
post #138 of 312
I would have said that this is all part of the pre-fight "hype" but now I think this fight is in real jeopardy, and we may have till Sep. or Nov. for it to happen; if its going to happen at all. I still think a March fight is possible but I'm not hopeful.

BTW, I voted in that poll with the link you provided Tim and I'm surprised how many people think Pac.-Man will win in a KO. I think it'll go 12 with Pac. winning a decision but if its a close fight with some controversy then everyone should probably expect a trilogy.
post #139 of 312
Eh, you can't really depend on those polls on that site for any accuracy. There is a very high concentration of very rabid Filipinos out there.

General opinion is that if Manny wins he wins by KO and if Floyd wins he's taking a decision but I don't know about that. I think you're right and there is a really good chance Manny takes the decision. Aggression is generally rewarded in close rounds and there should be plenty of those. Okay, not in Hagler V Sugar Ray but usually rewarded. I'm going against the grain and saying that if Floyd wins he needs a KO, he's simply not busy enough to win a majority of the rounds against a guy like Manny.

All the questions in this fight are on Floyd's side. Does he have the chin to hang with Manny? Will he be aggressive enough to win rounds? Can he be elusive enough to avoid all the shit Manny will throw at him? There are no surprises from Manny's side. He'll go in, bounce around and he'll dish out a little more than he takes. He'll be busier and hit harder... no mysteries there.

Time's running out though. I don't see this fight happening. That's my real prediction.

EDIT: Okay, I'm curious if Manny can avoid the jabs. He ate Cotto's left for quite a few rounds before he wore him down. That could be something Floyd does to win rounds and set something up... hmmm. I really wanna see this fight.
post #140 of 312
Sounds like the fight is DOA. Blame almost completely lies with Mayweather. Not his camp or his promoter. Mayweather.
post #141 of 312
Bob Arum said today that the fight was off. And from what I read it was because of Mayweather's refusal to budge on olympic style drug testing. Fuck Mayweather big time, I rarely watch boxing, but I was looking forward to this matchup between two boxers that are/were seemingly unstoppable.
post #142 of 312
Thus ending any possible return for boxing. This fight had the potential to bring it into the spotlight again.
post #143 of 312
Pacquiao to fight Joshua Clottey on March 13.

Quote:
With his fight against Floyd Mayweather Jr. all but off, Manny Pacquiao has instead agreed to fight Joshua Clottey on March 13 at a site to be determined, Pacquiao trainer Freddie Roach told ESPN's Brian Kenny on Friday.

The Pacquiao-Mayweather bout, which had also been tentatively set for March 13, was called off Wednesday night by Top Rank's Bob Arum, Pacquiao's promoter, after mediation failed to resolve their issues over drug-testing protocol.

But Mayweather Jr. maintained Thursday night that he still wanted to fight Pacquiao.

Clottey (35-3, 20 KOs) last fought in a split decision loss to welterweight titlist Miguel Cotto on June 13, a fight many believed Clottey won.

Clottey, who Friday was in his native Ghana, has not agreed to the fight, nor does he necessarily know about Pacquiao's inclination, Top Rank told ESPN.com.

But Arum confirmed Pacquiao's plan to fight Clottey to The Associated Press on Friday.
More at the link.
post #144 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvc View Post
Pacquiao to fight Joshua Clottey on March 13.



More at the link.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Easy win for Pac. I'm sure the PPV numbers will be off the chart for that one.
post #145 of 312
I wouldn't say it'll be that easy for Pac... Clottey is the best fighter available for the date so he's kind of doing what he can.

Don't worry guys, Mayweather is gonna step up and fight Malignaggi... yeah, 5 KO's in 30 fights Malignaggi. Anyone that had any questions on who the coward was, I think you have your answer.

I'm a huge boxing fan but I'm absolutely refusing to watch any Floyd fights until he takes on a real challenge. I'm amazed how blatantly he is with cherry picking opponents. He doesn't even hide it anymore at all.
post #146 of 312
Clottey is a tough opponent, and I believe Manny is going to fight the winner of Mosley - Berto, which should be a good fight.

Aparently Money Mayweather uses some banned substance in his Las Vegas fights.
post #147 of 312
Hmmm...

Manny / Clottey might be at Cowboys Stadium.

To go or not to go?

Chud road trip anyone?
post #148 of 312
post #149 of 312
Never thought it would happen. But still, Mosley is 38, for a welterweight that is extremely old. Sure he still took out Margarito in his last fight, but style wise that was a good fight for him and Margarito suffered the hand wrap debacle. Mayweather should take it, but still can't wait to see it.
post #150 of 312
Shane deserved this fight a while ago. Glad to see Maywether grew a pair an agreed to fight him. I hope Shane takes this, but Floyd's speed could prove to be the difference. Either way, I hope its an exciting fight, but this is Floyd Mayweather afterall, so I expect him to dance for 12 rounds and never give Shane the chance for any kind of exchange. Bottomline, it'll probably be a snoozefest.
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