The Boxing Thread - Page 5

Nice orderly job getting Haye to the ring there.

Wow! Til Schweiger in attendance!

Yeah, Wlad is doing his usual technically sound yet not all that thrilling job. Haye is gonna have to start taking some chances here if he wants a shot at winning.

Haye needs to start making fun of Hayden P if he wants to get in Vlad's head.

So boring.  Couldn't imagine paying for this on PPV.

Another dive by Haye

I'd hate to be the sap who has to write Haye a $15 million check for that slop. Hope Til had a nice time at least.

This is why I there are so few fights that I actually make of point of watching. I TiVoed this thing and fast forwarded through some of it, and I was still bored. What a disgrace. The heavyweight division in boxing is about as relevant and exciting as the Canadian Football League. There's almost no need to actually watch.

And why was Larry Merchant continually talking about how shitty the fight and Haye's performance were, its your network that puts this crap on.

I thought this might get exciting for a moment when Haye stunned Klitschko there in the last round.

I wanted to see Haye get his ass beat, but there really needs to be some new SUPER Heavyweight division or something. The size disparity makes these matches decided from the beginning. However, that was an awful performance by Haye. Seriously, I could have fought Klitschko and put on a better show than that (even thought I'd be knocked out in the first round). 

Quote:

Originally Posted by History Buff 

This is why I there are so few fights that I actually make of point of watching. I TiVoed this thing and fast forwarded through some of it, and I was still bored. What a disgrace. The heavyweight division in boxing is about as relevant and exciting as the Canadian Football League. There's almost no need to actually watch.

 

And why was Larry Merchant continually talking about how shitty the fight and Haye's performance were, its your network that puts this crap on.

Dont diss the CFL. lol. But yeah, it was pretty pointless to watch this fight.

So the Mayweather v. Ortiz fight is about to begin and I'll find out who wins from Sportscenter probably, because I'm sure as shit not paying $60 for this fight in HD. Especially when it will in all likelihood be a boring one, as Mayweather's fights usually are. We all want to see him against Pacquioa (sp) but what if Floyd actually loses?? Mayweather, BTW, is getting about $25 million for tonight's fight while Ortiz has to settle for about 2.5 million, no wonder Floyd is call Money.

So anyone else even remotely interested in this fight??

Quote:

Originally Posted by matalo 

Once again Mayweather proves he is a punk.

... and Ortiz proves he's kind of an idiot. Just as he looks like he has a chance of taking things over and making things interesting he decides to unleash a terrible headbutt. Then he apologizes, hugs, kisses, shakes hands... goes back in to hug... then he's hit with a totally legal "sucker punch" and instead of protecting himself he looks at the ref with his arms down and gets knocked out. 

I hate Floyd Mayweather and the move wasn't classy but the rule is "protect yourself at all times" and after taking that headbutt to the mouth I don't blame him for taking that shot. I'm pissed because he robbed us of what looked to be an interesting fight but whatever. Ortiz should probably shoulder most of the blame for that.

From what I'm reading, Larry Merchant's post-fight interview with Mayweather was better than the actual fight.

The ref fucked up.  No doubt about it.  It wasn't clear if time was called back in.  Time hadn't officially started, so it was a bit of a sucker punch.

But above all else, Victor Ortiz is just so dumb.  What a fucking idiot.  Why was he hugging and kissing Floyd?  Floyd sucker punched Mosley and Gatti when they tried to touch gloves.  Ortiz is such a simpleton.  Even after losing he just had dumb smile and said " its all a learning experience." 

Glad I didn't watch the fight. Its Manny or nothing for me as far as Boxing goes these days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Daywalker 

Glad I didn't watch the fight. Its Manny or nothing for me as far as Boxing goes these days.

$65 for that dreck, my feelings exactly. If Manny wins his next fight (I believe its in Nov.) then he and Mayweather have to meet some next Spring-May most likely-and that would be one of the biggest fights of the past 30 years, the PPV numbers would break all records, and we all better be prepared to pay at least $85 for it.
 

Anyone even remotely interested in tonight's Mayweather v. Cotto fight? I refuse to pay for any Mayweather fight unless he's fighting Pacquiao so I won't be watching. However., my neighbor has it on in his backyard and he's got it on so loud I can hear it perfectly.

Here's hoping that Mayweather gets knocked on his ass, but I think he'll win in a unanimous decision like he always does. Plus, no way Vegas is going to put in jeopardy a potential Mayweather Pac-man fight down the road.

Good fight.  

I blame the supermoon for Mayweather's decision to have Justin Bieber walk him to the ring.

HBO is going to air last week's fight tonight which is why I don't pay the 60 bucks they want to charge. I'll go ahead and check it out.. Until Mayweather fights Pacquioa I won't pay up front for one of his fights especcialy sense most aren't worth it!

So PacMan is 33 and his last few fights have been lackluster (arguably lost his last fight). He is fighting the youngest, fastest and smallest guy he has faced in years and he is coming in heavier than ever? Heavier than he came in for the Margarito fight!? This has "Balboa Vs Lang I" written all over it... I'm very curious about how he looks tonight.

so was the fight any good??? 

edit: Holy Shit I just learned that Pacquioa lost by split descision. WOW!! The happiest guy has to be Mayweather who will no longer be peppered with questions about fighting the Pac-Man. So for those who watched the fight, did Bradley deserve the descision??

Good to know boxing is still corrupt.  What a farce, even Bradley thought he lost, the fix was in.

Terrible decision. One of the worst I've ever seen but Manny doesn't get off the hook here. Maybe if he was in better shape (145 instead of 150 fight day weight) and focused more on the fight instead of delaying the start it to watch the Celtics lose (and subsequently, run very late and rush his pre fight warm up routine), he would have been able to knock Bradley out instead of leaving it in the judges hands. 

He took it lightly, didn't come in to knock the guy out and now he's been screwed. This is boxing and that's what happens. We'll see a rematch in November and everyone can get over a Mayweather Pacquiao match up because it won't happen until they're both way over the hill.

Well, I watched the fight again and I was wrong about my assessment. It was the wrong decision but it wasn't as much of a landslide as I thought it was after last night. I scored it today and came up with a 115-113 Manny victory with 2 rounds that could have gone either way and another 6 that were sort of close. 

So why did I think Manny won by a landslide last night? I think part of it is that we knew after round two that Bradley wasn't going to knock Manny out and somewhere in the back of our minds (with the help of dismissive commentator comments) we just dismissed the work he was doing in there. When really looking and scoring minute by minute, the fight tells a different story. The fact is that Manny took the first two minutes of nearly every round off and Bradley was scoring points during that time. Some of the rounds Manny did enough to make up for it (spectacularly) and some he didn't.

I think the judges were annoyed with Manny's pre-fight nonsense (delaying it an hour for basketball and other BS) and they were convinced that Manny wasn't focused or willing to fight hard before the fight started.  In turn, I suspect they gave Bradley too much credit for his high work rate, his full three minutes of action and his aggression while punishing Manny too severely for the opposite. 

So, there you have it... another interesting night for the greatest most flawed sport in the world.

It seems that the longer that they put off a Mayweather Pacquioa fight the less people will care. Plus both guys are going to be too old to have much of chance for a trilogy as is usually the case for these big fights/

That fight will never happen now.  The loss will be used by Mayweather to avoid it in the short term and they will both be too old long term.

Boxing is a dead sport.  Not because of the sport itself but because of the inane jackasses that run the sport.  It is very much a case of the inmates running the asylum.

Add to the fact nobody takes a boxing champ seriously against an MMA fighter of the same class and the relevance is gone.

Two boxers top the list of highest paid athletes in the past year and big fights still do numbers MMA can only dream of. There are just as many "failures", disappointments and boring matches in MMA as there are in boxing. The only difference is that boxing is bigger... so the failures seem bigger. There is more than enough room in the world for both sports.

This whole "boxing is dead" thing has been being said since Ali got old. Then Sugar Ray Leonard, Hearns, and Hagler carried boxing through the lean heavyweight years. Then it was Tyson carrying the torch by himself for a few years when those other guys got old... then boxing was "dead" again when he was put in jail but Holyfield and Bowe (and a resurgent Foreman) carried us into the De La Hoya reign... then it was "dead" again because there were no heavyweights left after Lewis... but there was Mayweather and Pac... on and on goes the cycle.

Boxing isn't going anywhere and great fights happen all the time. Chavez Jr., Canelo, Mayweather, Pac, Martinez, Maidana, Marquez... 2012 isn't a golden year but it's not a bad time to be a fan of boxing at all.

Correct no where near dead. If the money dries up then I would worry, the money river is flowing strong.  I wish something would happen with the heavyweight division but, there's plenty out there right now to keep me entertained.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timothy Q 

Two boxers top the list of highest paid athletes in the past year and big fights still do numbers MMA can only dream of. There are just as many "failures", disappointments and boring matches in MMA as there are in boxing. The only difference is that boxing is bigger... so the failures seem bigger. There is more than enough room in the world for both sports.

 

This whole "boxing is dead" thing has been being said since Ali got old. Then Sugar Ray Leonard, Hearns, and Hagler carried boxing through the lean heavyweight years. Then it was Tyson carrying the torch by himself for a few years when those other guys got old... then boxing was "dead" again when he was put in jail but Holyfield and Bowe (and a resurgent Foreman) carried us into the De La Hoya reign... then it was "dead" again because there were no heavyweights left after Lewis... but there was Mayweather and Pac... on and on goes the cycle.

 

Boxing isn't going anywhere and great fights happen all the time. Chavez Jr., Canelo, Mayweather, Pac, Martinez, Maidana, Marquez... 2012 isn't a golden year but it's not a bad time to be a fan of boxing at all.

So what you're saying is Boxing = Saturday Night Live.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rando 

 

So what you're saying is Boxing = Saturday Night Live.

... and wasn't it you that told me that SNL would be "cancelled soon" back in 1996!?

I don't want boxing to be dead, I love the sport, but it has issues.  The heavyweight champion of the world can't sell PPV, they have to put in on HBO, not a good sign.

James Toney, admittedly not relevant lately, but embarrassing himself against Randy Couture wasn't a good moment.

Most people only know two fighters and whatever punching bag they are up against.  Paq losing to Bradley was a good thing for the sport just because people are now still talking about it.  The promoters are corpse fucking the goose and it's a shame.  A relevant governing body that gave a shit about something other than lining their own pockets would go a long way, and would end up lining the pockets of all involved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timothy Q 

 

... and wasn't it you that told me that SNL would be "cancelled soon" back in 1996!?

....exactly. :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernel 

I don't want boxing to be dead, I love the sport, but it has issues.  The heavyweight champion of the world can't sell PPV, they have to put in on HBO, not a good sign.

 

James Toney, admittedly not relevant lately, but embarrassing himself against Randy Couture wasn't a good moment.

 

Most people only know two fighters and whatever punching bag they are up against.  Paq losing to Bradley was a good thing for the sport just because people are now still talking about it.  The promoters are corpse fucking the goose and it's a shame.  A relevant governing body that gave a shit about something other than lining their own pockets would go a long way, and would end up lining the pockets of all involved.

These issues are nothing new though. There was never a golden age of boxing because the judging was top notch or the promoters were more upstanding than other eras... fighters make boxing popular, and even though the heavyweight division has been diluted into irrelevancy it doesn't really matter. It never has. Guys like Sugar Ray, Hagler, Hearns, Chavez Sr, De La Hoya, Mayweather, Pacquiao, Durant... they propped boxing up just as well as any top heavyweights of any era (besides Ali). Compelling figures and knockouts... that's all boxing has ever needed. 

As for Toney... I don't think an overweight 40+ year old boxer getting beat in someone else's sport really means much of anything at all. You're the first I've even heard about it in several years.

Boxing could be improved in plenty of ways and it probably will be when Arum dies and Golden Boy becomes the only promotion on the block but for now, this will do. I've been enjoying a lot of fights lately.

THe notion that Boxing is dead is purely Ad Homonem. As Tim Q said these things go in cycles; I'd say the talk of boxing being dead goes back even further to the days of Jack Johnson. Racist America was, at the time, shocked that no white fighter could be a black fighter; thus, the talk of Boxing is a dying sport. So its been going on for a long time.

And no matter what  MMA lovers say about their sport one of those guys will never make the money in one night what a Pac-man can make: $25 MILLION!!!

One thing I will say that seems different to me from say, the 80s, and that is big time fights seem so much harder to make than in years past.  In the 80s Hagler, Hearns, Leonard, Duran they all fought eachother and it made for some great fights. Today, super-fights are few and far between.

I haven't done any research but from my recollection, Don King seemed to have a stake in every boxer from Ali to Tyson and beyond so making superfights was easy. He could pit any two guys against each other and make money off of both sides. Now you have Top Rank and Golden Boy at odds with absolutely no reason to pit their guys against each other because they would have to split the take. With Mayweather's promotional company taking a slice along with Golden Boy and Top Rank, the Pac/Floyd fight would need to be more than 2x more successful than any other match up they could put together on their own and that's just to break even. But why break even and risk your promotion making another look like they have the best fighter in the world?

That's why it's nice that Arum is in his 80's... the sooner he's out, the better for all of us.

What I don't get is how the Floyd-Manny can't get made when it's clearly the most money that either fighter will ever make in their careers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by History Buff 

What I don't get is how the Floyd-Manny can't get made when it's clearly the most money that either fighter will ever make in their careers.

The answer is right above your post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by History Buff 

And no matter what  MMA lovers say about their sport one of those guys will never make the money in one night what a Pac-man can make: $25 MILLION!!!

The top end of boxing (Floyd and Paq) are no doubt higher, it's not even close.  But there was also a time in America when Football would NEVER challenge Baseball as the biggest sport.  They played games in baseball stadiums and took what they could get.  Better management of the league eventually changed things and the NFL is king in America.

I wonder how things will play out here, MMA has a clear leader and boxing seems to be lead by animosity.  Building stars is the key to any sport's popularity.  Namath's prediction in Superbowl III put him in the Hall of Fame.  Agassi and Sampras turned into superstars.  Every four years we get behind athletes in the Olympics.  Boxing needs some more of those guys right now, and I hope they find them.

Individual sports seem to depend first and foremost on their stars to gain mass appeal. Tennis, Golf, Boxing... they live and die by their stars. The problem with MMA seems to be that their stars flame out so quickly. As soon as a guy like Liddell, Rampage and Lesner start becoming big names they are destroyed and the public loses interest in them almost instantly.

You can argue how good or bad that is from an entertainment standpoint but from a popularity standpoint, it is counter productive. Guys can stick around in boxing. You can complain that they only fight once or twice a year but there is something to be said about having your biggest stars being able to maintain their popularity for 5-10 years. Wouldn't you agree about the importance? 

On the  monetary side of things; MMA guys will never make $25m+ because by the time they start approaching the fame that garners a fraction of that they get beat buy a new guy in the middle of building a career. I'm surprised no one else has ever talked about this strange glass ceiling MMA seems to have, especially these days as everyone questions why its growth has stalled a bit.  

Agree? Disagree? I'm curious what you guys think about this observation. 

Ortiz just quit on his stool with a broken jaw and throws a huge monkey wrench into the Canelo Alvarez's plans. Prior to the broken jaw he was struggling with Lopez (the smaller fighter) and socked him with a very dirty shot to the back of the head while he was holding Lopez down. I'd be happy if Ortiz kind of went away for a long time. He's an idiot.

Anyone notice that no one was icing down Lopez's (very) swollen eye between rounds? WTF?

Also, this non-PPV fight with almost no promotion was trending in 3 of the top 10 spots on twitter in the United States (4 of 10 worldwide)... so yeah boxing is still a pretty big deal even with B level fights.