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WATCHMEN's own "Things you've just noticed" thread. (Spoilers!)

post #1 of 159
3/9/09 at 11:54am
Thread Starter 
Since pretty much everyone has picked up some detail or visual reference in "Watchmen" other have missed (The Village People at Studio 54...idiot me), maybe it was worth creating a thread for it. Hope it works.
Lets start:
-During Sally's retirement party in the credits, she and the Comedian are smiling at each other...just noticed that.
-Hooded Justice's accent is indeed what someone called Rolf Muller would sound like.
-After leaving the fire rescued tenants in a roof, Laurie can be seen putting some cups back into a compartment in the Owlship.
-According to the prick sitting next to me yesterday, Dr. Manhattan is jewish...I dont see it.
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post #2 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:18pm
Bowie and Jagger were also outside Studio 54.
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post #3 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:24pm
Are the people missing some of this stuff prone to seizures or blackouts?
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post #4 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:27pm
1. At the retirement party, you can also see Hooded Justice and his partner being affectionate with one another, too.
2. I like that they're not just coffee cups, but that type of coffee cup, which you see everywhere in New York.
3. The prick sitting next to you was wrong.
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post #5 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:28pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
Are the people missing some of this stuff prone to seizures or blackouts?
You try looking for every detail in a movie when the guy next to you giggles everytime Dr. Manhattan's dong flops onscreen.
Also, Ive just remembered that the Nixon poster Rorshach walks by in the film has BOTH devil horns and mickey ears on it. Thats awesome.
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post #6 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:29pm
Osterman could be Jewish, no? Moore's take on the "Superman's Jewish" debate?
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post #7 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:32pm
That's not what he was referring to. Osterman didn't look circumsized. (Which I thought was weird too, because there are lots of cues in the comic and briefly in the movie that he is Jewish. Although you can reason that too, because Manhattan probably reconstructs himself into a basic yet idealized human form and/or his rejection of God factors into his appearance. But that's way too much thought put into giant blue wang.)
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post #8 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
1. At the retirement party, you can also see Hooded Justice and his partner being affectionate with one another, too.
2. I like that they're not just coffee cups, but that type of coffee cup, which you see everywhere in New York.
3. The prick sitting next to you was wrong.
1) Holy crap, you are right!
2) Same as 1.
3) "Come on, that looks circunsated" was the guy's argument when his friend pointed out that. I wish he had choked to death on his smelly nachos.
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post #9 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:35pm
I mentioned this in the post-release thread, but it belongs here.

It's the ending in Antarctica, they've seen Nixon on the news, Nite Owl is watching Manhattan and Ozy agree that it's best to keep it all secret. For something like three shots, you can see Billy Crudup in his lit-up motion capture suit reflected in Nite Owl's goggles.
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post #10 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:36pm
Was there a reason that they couldn't have edited out the coffee cups? If you're going to excise the scene entirely, why not remove the few frames of Laurie putting the cups away? It's a trivial nitpick, but there it is.
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post #11 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:37pm
1) Wasn't Sally's farewell party staged just like The Last Supper?
2) There's an issue of Rom: Spaceknight, which was published by Marvel (in a DC Comics movie!) on the newsstand (caught that in one of the tie-in books).
3) Everyone probably caught this, but there's a pic of Laurie in the Comedian's apartment.
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post #12 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:38pm
After listening to the 300 commentary, I found out the kid playing both young Leonidas and young Rorscach is Snyder's son.
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post #13 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy225 View Post
1) Wasn't Sally's farewell party staged just like The Last Supper?
Yeah, I chuckled at that too.
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post #14 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:41pm
Come on, who JUST noticed it was staged like the Last Supper?? You guys are trying to make my head explode.
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post #15 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:41pm
Thread Starter 
This one's pretty hard (alright, its imposible to miss), but it sparked a discussion after the film among friends.
After Rorshach's death, the ink blot pattern his blood leaves in the snow (loved that) ressembles a "pretty butterfly"...or the first inkbot we see in his mask as he jumps into Comedian's apartment, acording to my friends.
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post #16 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:42pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
Come on, who JUST noticed it was staged like the Last Supper?? You guys are trying to make my head explode.
Ive just noticed that both Batman and ads for "Die Fledermaus" are behind Nite Owl I in the credits.
BOOM!
Also, it seems Hippies getting gunned down is a form of comedy, according to prick's laughter during the credits.
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post #17 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:42pm
I really like how both the gay couples frame that Last Supper scene. I thought it was really pretty from a composition standpoint, as obvious as it is. Took me a second viewing to catch the blood splot as butterfly, though.

Two other things: I dig the fake New Yorker cover of Manhattan shaking hands with an unseen President on one of the tables in Adrian's office, and as the energy surge is beaming to New York from Karnack, the beams/particles/whatever take on a tentacle-like shape for a second or two.
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post #18 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:44pm
It's hard to find a thread these days that doesn't have the word 'Watchmen' in it...
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post #19 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:44pm
Sally's farewell party was staged like The Last Supper.

Also, I don't remember this from the comics, but there were several instances of posters saying something about, "The 51st State" and when I finally say an entire one it said, "Vietnam: The 51st State." or something along those lines.
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post #20 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:45pm
Here's one I noticed - the photo of Blake and Nixon in Blake's apartment is based on this'un:

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post #21 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
After Rorshach's death, the ink blot pattern his blood leaves in the snow (loved that) ressembles a "pretty butterfly"...or the first inkbot we see in his mask as he jumps into Comedian's apartment, acording to my friends.
My wife noticed that as well. That was a nice touch to a scene that was scene that was, overall, vastly superior to the GN version.
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post #22 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:48pm
The cop stood next to Sally Jupiter in the photo-op scene in the credits is staring right at her cleavage.
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post #23 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sackley View Post
The cop stood next to Sally Jupiter in the photo-op scene in the credits is staring right at her cleavage.
Both cops are.
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post #24 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:49pm
I caught Phil's one about the Comedian/Elvis meets Nixon connection, too. That might be my favorite one yet.
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post #25 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sackley View Post
The cop stood next to Sally Jupiter in the photo-op scene in the credits is staring right at her cleavage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
Both cops are.
Wouldn't you?

I also caught the snowglobe Laurie referred to from the GN sitting on the TV set in Sally Jupiter's house.
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post #26 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:53pm
Using circumcision to determine Jewishness? During certain parts of the 20th century, the number of male American babies who were circumsized was something like 80%.

Anyway, Osterman can be a Jewish name, and his father was a watchmaker - I can't remember if it's ever stated directly where he comes from, but it could very well be in New York's Diamond District (which would put yet another layer on the name "Dr. Manhattan"), where Jews had a large presence in the early/mid-20th century.
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post #27 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy225 View Post
Wouldn't you?
I'd be biting Gugino's calf muscle like a rabid dog, but maybe that's why I'm not in civil service.

Quote:
I also caught the snowglobe Laurie reffered to from the GN sitting on the TV set in Sally Jupiter's house
That sentence illustrates nicely some of my problems with the movie, but since this is a fetish thread and not a critical one, I'll leave it be.
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post #28 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:56pm
Thread Starter 
I might be wrong here, but I swear there's a very quick shot of Nite Owl staring at a Knot Top during the bar interrogation scene...either that or my brain's not wired right anymore.
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post #29 of 159
3/9/09 at 12:59pm
The rifle used by the Comedian to dispatch President Kennedy in the opening credits is a carbon copy of the Mannlicher/Carcano used by Lee Harvey Oswald.

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post #30 of 159
3/9/09 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
Ive just noticed that both Batman and ads for "Die Fledermaus" are behind Nite Owl I in the credits.
On top of that, there's a well-dressed couple coming out of the theater who appear to have been the intended victim of the gunman Nite Owl is apprehending. Possibly a nod to Bruce Wayne's parents and Batman's origin.

Also, in addition to Bowie and Jagger, the Village People are outside of Studio 54.

One cool thing I noticed watching the credits online is that in addition to Jon reflected in Armstrong's helmet on the moon, the credits are reflected as well.
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post #31 of 159
3/9/09 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
Using circumcision to determine Jewishness? During certain parts of the 20th century, the number of male American babies who were circumsized was something like 80%.

Anyway, Osterman can be a Jewish name, and his father was a watchmaker - I can't remember if it's ever stated directly where he comes from, but it could very well be in New York's Diamond District (which would put yet another layer on the name "Dr. Manhattan"), where Jews had a large presence in the early/mid-20th century.
Discounting circumcision, what you mentioned plus the Einstein stuff in that issue of the comic plus Manhattan as a commentary not just on the Charleton character but on Superman (Space Moses, a Golem, dozens of other Jewish-based interpretations), I think the comic establishes him as pretty firmly Jewish.

Discounting circumcision, I think the film is more 'ambiguous,' but I think the glimpses we get of his childhood, particularly his father's accent (Eastern European in the 20s/30s as shorthand) are cues/nods towards the idea of him as a Jewish character.

The whole issue is more important for the comic than the film, though. I just thought it was funny that somebody else noticed it, because that's certainly what the guy in the first post was referring to.
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post #32 of 159
3/9/09 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
One cool thing I noticed watching the credits online is that in addition to Jon reflected in Armstrong's helmet on the moon, the credits are reflected as well.
Neil also says his trademark 'Good Luck, Mr. Gorsky' line while Dr. Manhattan is taking the picture.
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post #33 of 159
3/9/09 at 1:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Also, in addition to Bowie and Jagger, the Village People are outside of Studio 54.
That goes in the new thread:

Things you just noticed that other people had just noticed in the Watchmen's own "Things you just noticed" thread.
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post #34 of 159
3/9/09 at 1:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ Fischer View Post
That goes in the new thread:

Things you just noticed that other people had just noticed in the Watchmen's own "Things you just noticed" thread.
Sorry, didn't read the intro in the first post, just went right to his list.
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post #35 of 159
3/9/09 at 1:22pm
Also, moving this to Movie Miscellany.
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post #36 of 159
3/9/09 at 1:25pm
Robert Redford running in '88 was changed to Ronald Reagan running in '88.

And I've already pointed this out but Veidt's corporate HQ is a remade Citicorp Plaza.
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post #37 of 159
3/9/09 at 1:32pm
I was the guy defending shorthand in the credit sequence, but as a fan of that time period, there are so many inaccuracies in that Studio 54 scene, even for 'alternate history', that it annoys me a lot. And then I feel like a virginal nerd again for being that annoyed about something that's like a minute out of a 160 minute movie.
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post #38 of 159
3/9/09 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
Discounting circumcision, what you mentioned plus the Einstein stuff in that issue of the comic plus Manhattan as a commentary not just on the Charleton character but on Superman (Space Moses, a Golem, dozens of other Jewish-based interpretations), I think the comic establishes him as pretty firmly Jewish.

Discounting circumcision, I think the film is more 'ambiguous,' but I think the glimpses we get of his childhood, particularly his father's accent (Eastern European in the 20s/30s as shorthand) are cues/nods towards the idea of him as a Jewish character.

The whole issue is more important for the comic than the film, though. I just thought it was funny that somebody else noticed it, because that's certainly what the guy in the first post was referring to.
I must have misunderstood something, since I thought you were disagreeing with ryoken's annoying neighbor, who said that Manhattan was Jewish. I agree with you on this post - both the movie and comic tend to point to Osterman as Jewish.
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post #39 of 159
3/9/09 at 1:39pm
"Rambo: First Blood Part II" is playing on one of Ozymandias' televisions, although the film is about Rambo going back to Vietnam to "win this time" and rescue POWs who'd been held captive since the U.S. reneged on paying war reparations to the Vietnamese. Since we won the Vietnam war in the "Watchmen" universe, would a character like Rambo have been created in the first place? What's more, the movie came out in summer of '85, and "Watchmen" is set in October-November of that same year. Would it have premiered on cable that quickly?
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post #40 of 159
3/9/09 at 1:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
I was the guy defending shorthand in the credit sequence, but as a fan of that time period, there are so many inaccuracies in that Studio 54 scene, even for 'alternate history', that it annoys me a lot. And then I feel like a virginal nerd again for being that annoyed about something that's like a minute out of a 160 minute movie.
Well of course, Bowie wasn't Ziggy Stardust at that point in the late 70s. But who says he still was in that universe? It doesn't matter. Not to mention that's probably Bowie's most recognizable look.
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post #41 of 159
3/9/09 at 1:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
I was the guy defending shorthand in the credit sequence, but as a fan of that time period, there are so many inaccuracies in that Studio 54 scene, even for 'alternate history', that it annoys me a lot. And then I feel like a virginal nerd again for being that annoyed about something that's like a minute out of a 160 minute movie.
I've only seen it once, but the main thing I caught is that the movie's Bowie looks more similar to the Bowie of several years prior to Studio 54's heyday. But this sort of thing you could chalk up to the re-tooled timeline. Maybe Bowie's glam rock phase lasted a little longer due to the popularity of costumed heroes or something...

ETA: Ed beat me to it.
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post #42 of 159
3/9/09 at 1:50pm
One little throw away gag that Snyder put in there that I thought was nice was when Comedian throws his cup at Veidt, it smashes on the door and knocks the 1 off of the 3001, leaving just 300.
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post #43 of 159
3/9/09 at 1:50pm
Studio 54 opened in '77, the Village People didn't hit their peak until '79, the later Comedian scene indicates that the riots and violence leading to the Keene Act in '77 are taking place in the disco era, too, Bowie was Ziggy Stardust in the early 70s rather than the late 70s. The Bowie thing I get because you need people to recognize him instantly as Bowie, but the others bug me because the timelines don't work out for the heyday of Veidt as Ozymandias, etc. It's a number of things, all small.
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post #44 of 159
3/9/09 at 1:55pm
Zapruder's filming in the JFK assassination scene. Didn't even notice the camera pans over him until I watched the title sequence online.

Also, while the Comedian is watching TV, the discussion of the Doomsday Clock moving to 5 to midnight happens at... 5 to midnight.

Also, there's a B&W something going on in one of the monitors while Veidt's watching Dan and Rorschach approach Karnak. I wanted to say it was Dr. Strangelove when I first saw it, but now I'm thinking it might be The Architects of Fear. Also, Veidt's either watching his own commercial for Nostalgia, or they inserted the original commercial that the one at the beginning of the film is based on.

There's also a handshake banner with the Stars and Stripes above it and the Sickle and Hammer below it as we pan down to The New Frontiersman. Down the street from that banner? A billboard for Veidt Millennium.
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post #45 of 159
3/9/09 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cameo View Post
Also, there's a B&W something going on in one of the monitors while Veidt's watching Dan and Rorschach approach Karnak. I wanted to say it was Dr. Strangelove when I first saw it, but now I'm thinking it might be The Architects of Fear.
I'd read that that was Fail Safe.
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post #46 of 159
3/9/09 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
I'd read that that was Fail Safe.
That'd also make sense. Which would mean that Snyder shoved nearly every Cold War reference ever into this movie.
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post #47 of 159
3/9/09 at 2:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
Studio 54 opened in '77, the Village People didn't hit their peak until '79, the later Comedian scene indicates that the riots and violence leading to the Keene Act in '77 are taking place in the disco era, too, Bowie was Ziggy Stardust in the early 70s rather than the late 70s. The Bowie thing I get because you need people to recognize him instantly as Bowie, but the others bug me because the timelines don't work out for the heyday of Veidt as Ozymandias, etc. It's a number of things, all small.
Who cares. It's Studio 54, they probably all fucked each other. I at least like to think Veidt had the decency to go for Ziggy Stardust. That would've been hot.
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post #48 of 159
3/9/09 at 2:54pm
The 'Where's The Beef?' commercial is also one of the images on Veidt's monitors.
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post #49 of 159
3/9/09 at 3:01pm
This one, I am not completely sure, but after the scene with the Minutemen photo I think the photographer is refered as Weegee.

Weegee being, of course, the famous crime photographer for the 40s.
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post #50 of 159
3/9/09 at 3:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by singal View Post
This one, I am not completely sure, but after the scene with the Minutemen photo I think the photographer is refered as Weegee.

Weegee being, of course, the famous crime photographer for the 40s.
Spanish subtitles confirm it! Thanks for clearing that up!
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