Is Borders the next to go? - Page 2

I miss Hibberd's on Walnut, Bob!

There are only a handful of good local bookstores left in Philly. At least you have that. Up until last year the best we had in Jersey was Atlantic Discount Books, but then they left.
I'm not saying I haven't been to the new B&N on Rt.70. It's just a few minutes from my house and I'm only human after all.

And Joyce Carol Oates is coming there on April 2!

I keep thinking you're Philly, not Jersey.

When in Philly, visit the Whodunit Mystery Bookstore.

You know where I get a ton of awesome books? Goodwill. There's a lot of crap, but I still usually walk out with something really great. Once I found a first edition of Tarzan and Jewels of Opar for like 3 bucks. It was in great shape, too.

Used bookstores are the best thing in the world.

Has anyone used the kindle yet? If so, has it changed the way that you buy/read books?

I got one as a Christmas present from work a few weeks ago (everybody got one), but I really haven't played with it yet. They're saying that these things will outright replace books in a few years, but I don't know...I like having books on my bookshelves that I can look at and organize.

As my wife is fond of saying, the codex has been around for centuries, and the reason that it's been around for centuries is that it's a brilliant design that has yet to be improved upon. Admittedly, people like all things new and shiny, but I'd say the burden here is on the Kindle.

Even if the Kindle does gain traction, it would probably take a lot more than a few years to outright replace books. Unlike recorded music or film, the written word hasn't been subject to a series of industry-driven media changes over the past 50 years. Books have a much longer history than records, cassettes, VHS tapes, CDs, and DVDs. I'd like to think we're not as squishy-headed and easily marketed-to when it comes to such a longstanding concept. I could be wrong, of course.

I used to work at a Barnes and Noble in Berkeley. It went out of business a few years after I left. It was Berkeley, but still. It sucks, but there's more competition out there, and the viable business model is changing.

Truthfully, for paperbacks (MSRP under $10), with Borders' coupons, it was cheaper to go to Borders. But, they usually didn't have much that I wanted to get. The warehouse system gives much more breadth and choice that browsing can't give me. I mean, I can see why they need fifty copies of Twilight, but that's shelf space that can't be used for something else.

It's been a long time since I've even SEEN an indie bookstore in my neck of the woods, and we only just got a Borders when they renovated/rebuilt the Freehold Mall (also got a P.M. Chang's, Cheesecake Factory, etc. in the renovation, so the whole mall is always packed). It would kind of suck if it goes under - I've found a ton of books at Amazon.com level prices. There's a B&N across the highway, and a newer one on the Howell/Lakewood border - both of which are pretty damn good, too, but the Borders seemed to have more books/DVDs/CDs available (two floors worth).

Moving? Breeze with a Kindle. Very little packing involved. You don't have to dust a Kindle. Definitely are pluses going electronic.

you can't beat the feel of a book

plus a book, depending on the print could be worth money with time

a kindle will be worth what it gets at the recycle center

Thank you. I make it a point to buy most of my new books from Borders, and it would suck to see them go out of business.

Small indy bookstores are already extremely rare, and I would hate to see B&N have a stronghold monopoly on the book industry.

Gotta echo Dave's sentiments here. I'm not entirely sure how Borders is set up outside of the States and if it went under there that would be an end to the Borders we have here in Australia, but in the last ten years Ive watched that uber-chain slowly choke the life out of some of the most wonderful little esoteric bookstores all across my fair city, (and there were lots) while still charging more than their fucking contempories anyway.

So forgive me if I can't muster a tear for the Starbucks answer to the modern book store. It sucks that people will lose their jobs, but I have to say I won;t miss those fucking stores if they disappear.

print is dead

They don't it's pretty much the price that's printed on the back of the book.

Now I wonder, how on earth does Toy R Us stay in business?

Yeah, our sales have been going up. Unsurprisingly.

Their range here includes a lot of imports.

Their prices for graphic novels and hardbacks are outragous here in Australia.

I can't speak for Borders in the states obviously.

...and print isn't dead.

What about reading in the bath? I don't know how common of a practice is but I find it really relaxing, and I'd be way too neurotic to attempt it with a Kindle.

I wouldnt know about their book prices, but judging by the exorbitant amount of money thay charge for their DVDs, I have just assumed that their book pricing is equally expensive.

Forget all that anyway, I go to my local library and get all the books I want for free. ALL of them.

For new releases I usually go with Amazon

For older stuff I'm blessed to live in an area with a plethora of used bookstores.

Haven't they diversified in recent years? I don't know how their revenue breaks down by product type though.

I sure see a lot of books for sale (and being sold, first and second hand) for that to be the case.

Ghostbusters, man.

Thanks Billy..

Go watch some movies or something Drew :-P

Dr Ray Stantz: Symmetrical book stacking. Just like the Philadelphia mass turbulence of 1947.
Dr. Peter Venkman: You're right, no human being would stack books like this.

Ugh. I have to agree that it's disheartening to consider all the job loss and unused real estate that would result, but most of the activity I ever seem to witness in these big box bookstores involves lounging around reading something you don't intend to buy while sipping your fancy coffee. I love to wander about and browse, myself, but prefer a more intimate environment within which to make these little miracle discoveries. While troubling for what fiscal impact might result, I don't see the loss of Borders to be all that upsetting.

Sorry, I'm dense.

The level of job loss and the big empty stores unsuitable for any local businesses are another reason why these chains suck in the first place.

Good man.

I have an obvious horse in this race, having a librarian in the family and going to library school myself, but I find this acquisitive urge fascinating when it comes to books.

I'm assuming that most of you guys spend a lot of your money at Borders on fiction - probably popular fiction, a good portion of it genre. How much of this stuff merits a re-read? Are you taking notes in it? Are you studying it? What are the practical advantages to owning a book that you plan on only reading once for enjoyment?

I understand ownership when it comes to music and movies (although with the convenience of Netflix, I've almost given up buying DVDs). But it's so ridiculously easy to obtain a book for the amount of time it takes to read it once - why spend the money on everything you plan to read?

This may sound wierd, but I LIKE being able to look at my bookshelves and remember the good books that I've read, even if it was only once. Call them visual triggers for experiential memories.

I get that. I buy my share of books, too. But why not just buy the books that you suspect will stand the test of time or books that you've already read that you know you'll want to re-read. It just seems weird to buy everything, when there's another convenient, less expensive option.

Exactly. Toledo had a great, family owned bookstore called Thackeray's that ended up being absorbed when Borders came to down.

I've always been partial to Ann Arbor because of their independent theaters and bookstores, but outside of the used bookstores like Dawn Treader and Kaleidoscope, the privately owned bookstores are dead as well. Thanks B&N and Borders.

Being an obsessive fan of genre fiction means you're probably a compulsive collector, too. It's all part of the sickness.

I really hope this situation leads to a rebirth of the public library system. Over the last few months, parking space in my local library is dwindling. It's great.

It's the collector mentality, I used to suffer from it. I was obsessive about HP Lovecraft paperbacks for the longest time, but I finally broke myself free from that , much like a broke myself free from comics. This is going to sound like a heavy dose of brown nosing, but I was able to overcome those urges thanks to people like you and Devin.

What I do hold onto, and my wife cannot understand why, is all of my old college texts. I'll most likely end up keeping the texts from my current classes. I actually reference them quite a bit, especially if I have an important report or letter to draft.

I didn't want to limit it to genre fiction readers, specifically, but maybe there's some truth to that. But I do think it's somewhat more prevasive than that - people like owning things, even when there's not much utility in owning them. That copy of The DaVinci Code? You didn't need to buy that - your public library had a couple dozen copies with which you could have discovered that it sucked as much as everyone was saying it sucked.

Hope so. And, with any luck, it'll mean more jobs for librarians and not just prettier buildings (a frustratingly common phenomenon - cities invest in one-shot library initiatives that do wonders for infrastructure and bring the public in, but they don't allot enough money for adequate staffing in the long-term, so the service suffers).

Well, that stuff makes perfect sense. You keep the useful books and the great books - even the books that aren't necessarily "great," but that you enjoy thoroughly and know you'll read again (the Harry Potter series, for instance). I'm not advocating for clearing your bookshelves and going "library only." I own tons of books, but I can't imagine buying everything that I want to read.

I also don't have to worry about the condition of it if I buy it. I keep my books in perfect shape (no folds, no tears, no broken spines) because I like the way that they look on my shelves. I don't handle them with surgical gloves when I read them, but I'm careful to maintain their condition. While I do have several books that are collectible, the main reason that I maintain their condition is purely aesthetic: I like the way they look.

It's probably my one OCD, but there it is.

If you don't buy it, you spend no money.

I rarely buy books, but I do understand the freedom of owning it and reading it whenever I want.

For me, at the library, I'm like a kid in a candy store. Is it anywhere in this world more true than going to the library (given that you love to read, of course)?

Agreed. That's one of the reasons I like the Strand in NYC so much -- they have a balance between new releases and used books. Miles of used books. Although they recently closed their Wall Street branch this past summer as well.

I'm sort of torn between both arguments in the thread: I love used bookstores and Mom & Pop/specialty places, and when I go down to the city, I make sure that I shop there as opposed to a big box store, but when I want something specific most of the year, I've got to either order off Amazon or go to a Borders. I prefer Borders of B&N because their membership plan is free, and it's closer to me, anyway.

As for Dave's "Why buy, rather than borrow?", I think I have to admit to the collector mentality. I read a lot of crime fiction, and I like being able to have a couple of shelves dedicated soley to that. My other weakness is/has been that I'll often buy books for a project or something I plan on writing (I have a New York City epic that I've been collecting material for for a few years now, as well as a project on pop music), knowing that while I might not be able to get to them in the moment, they're there for the time when I do. Also, having them on my shelf provides additional motivation.

And since the library is still about 35-40 minutes from me and I'm a non-driver, it's easier to buy at this point in time.

Hoo, hoo, no. Libraries and DVDs don't mix. I refuse to check out DVDs from the library. In most people's minds it seems "free"= I can treat it as if it were indestructible trash.

But still, with Netflix or other services it is a different story. They are still paying for the service and will treat the product better.

So there is still no need for people to really have physical collections anymore.

I like the convenience of having a backlog of books to read. I generally buy a book every two weeks or so and that way I have 1-2 at home wating to read after my current one. It all depends on how quickly I can get through my current choice.

I only buy paperbacks as hardback are too expensive (unless I can get them 50+% off in the discount section at B&N...that section is awesome). When i'm done with the book I either let a friend or relative borrow it or I give it to charity. I give all my books to charity after a while. I like thinking that Goodwill, etc. has a nice list of cheap books for someone to buy that I know are worth a damn, in good shape and will help others of lesser means enjoy a good story.

Maybe it's just me, but I've been kind of disappointed by the number of scratched DVDs that have been coming from Netflix.

Dovetailing into the ONLIVE discussion we had on Monday: I wonder if and how digital collections of books, movies, and games will affect the collector mentality. Showing off a cabinet seems way more satisfying than dialing up an ONDEMAND KINDLESHELF on a widescreen.

I've only had one problem with a Netflix DVD and it had a large crack coming from the center. Other than that, they've been pretty clean.

Library DVDs all seem to have been used as a frisbee/coaster and they usually have been dipped in Chinese food.