CHUD.com Community › Forums › POLITICS & RELIGION › Political Discourse › Steven Pinker: We are living in the most peaceful time
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Steven Pinker: We are living in the most peaceful time

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
An interesting video lecture in which he uses a variety of statistics to undermine the media's (and many politicians') presumption that we are living in a time of fear, violence and all-round pandemonium. He also offers his opinions on why this might be the case

As with all arguments that combine statistics from diverse fields of study it's worth retaining some skepticism - but there is a ring of plausibility that might just abate the terror of leaving your door unlocked at night ...
post #2 of 11
Any relation to Horace Pinker?
post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post
Any relation to Horace Pinker?
He should hope not.
post #4 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Foster View Post
An interesting video lecture in which he uses a variety of statistics to undermine the media's (and many politicians') presumption that we are living in a time of fear, violence and all-round pandemonium. He also offers his opinions on why this might be the case

As with all arguments that combine statistics from diverse fields of study it's worth retaining some skepticism - but there is a ring of plausibility that might just abate the terror of leaving your door unlocked at night ...
I take it he talking about just in the US, and not world wide.
post #5 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by eenin View Post
I take it he talking about just in the US, and not world wide.
You could, y'know, watch some of the fucking video. What he seems to be doing, in part anyway, is continuing the same trope from his book The Blank Slate that the noble savage is myth is just that. I'm only 3 min in though.

Frankly, post WWI and WWII, even without the statistics this seems prima facie plausible.
post #6 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eenin View Post
I take it he talking about just in the US, and not world wide.
He's talking world wide.
post #7 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Foster View Post
He's talking world wide.
Then he is wrong, I don't think he counted Africa correctly. Right now what is going on in Africa is akin to the 30 Years War. It may not be as intense as WWII, but over the long run it is more Destructive. The population of Africa has crashed over the last 25 years or so. There are other factors involved, but they are interrelated. Even if what has been going on in Africa may be ending, it may be too soon to say for sure. At best it just a calm between storms. if he was talking about Just the G10 I would agree with him, but not world wide.
post #8 of 11
.........so I guess there really is something to this Civilization thing.....whooda thunk it?
post #9 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eenin View Post
Then he is wrong, I don't think he counted Africa correctly. Right now what is going on in Africa is akin to the 30 Years War. It may not be as intense as WWII, but over the long run it is more Destructive. The population of Africa has crashed over the last 25 years or so. There are other factors involved, but they are interrelated. Even if what has been going on in Africa may be ending, it may be too soon to say for sure. At best it just a calm between storms. if he was talking about Just the G10 I would agree with him, but not world wide.
Yes, the situation in many African states is dire to say the least. Dictatorships, civil war, genocide etc. I'm sure the mortality figures are chilling, but are they higher (as a ratio) than in previous times? I have my doubts. King Leopold II of Belgium instigated the bloody exploitation of the Belgian Congo (the backdrop to Conrad's "Heart of Darkness") which is estimated to have claimed 10 million lives (half the population!). After seeing him acquire the wealth of Croesus (mainly from rubber) most of the other colonial powers introduced similar methods of extortion. How many African slaves died en route to the Americas? The Rwandan genocide is fresh in our memories, but what many people don't know is that the conflict between Hutus and Tutsis has been going on for centuries[1]. Consider the total annihilation of the Cape Hottentots by the Portuguese. Consider the Khoisan race (spread across a huge chunk of territory) wiped off the map completely by the invading Bantu peoples thousands of years ago. Consider, similarly, the Pygmy races which after finishing on the losing side of battle were reduced to eking out an existence in two or three small enclaves. It’s worth mentioning the fact that historically speaking “Black Africa” is a relatively new assignation. It wasn’t always so. There is growing evidence to suggest that between a third and one half of the continent was occupied by white peoples until a few thousand years ago (from the northern shores down as far south as Kenya). Where did they go?[2]

With the above in mind, I think it’s unwise to assume Africa is currently experiencing the most deadly times in its long history.

Sources:

[1] “The State of Africa: A History of Fifty Years of Independence” by Martin Meredith (one of the best books I’ve read on recent African history and politics).

[2] “Guns, Germs & Steel” by Jared Diamond (describes the enormous influence all three have wielded over humanity since their discovery. Contains the fascinating chapter “How Africa Became Black”).
post #10 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by eenin View Post
Then he is wrong, I don't think he counted Africa correctly.
I'm pretty sure that it's a specious assertion to say he's wrong when you aren't certain that you're right.
post #11 of 11
Fascinating to hear him speak(after only knowing him through his printed words). I can generally see and, more importantly I think, embrace his points.

I'm not quite on board with his reasoning on Africa. It still feels a bit 1880 to me.

And for what it's worth, I think he'd do well to accompany all of the (arguably tempered) optimism with the clear understanding that things are still FUCKING AWFUL in too many places on the planet. Particularly Africa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuddL View Post
Frankly, post WWI and WWII, even without the statistics this seems prima facie plausible.
Isn't it possible that someone could have convincingly made Pinker's argument in 1903? After all, they didn't call it World War One in 1918.

Don't get me wrong. I've never bought the "noble savage" concept. It's naive and distracts from the more important point of the damage colonialism and missionary efforts have truly done over the last few hundred years. Nor have I ever understood the past to be some idyllic Shangri-La of simple living, simple values and engendering some symbiosis with our environment.

Near Pinker's book on my shelf(by coincidence, it happens) is a personal favorite of mine, "The Good Old Days...They Were Terrible", Otto Bettmann's tribute to the insidious nature of sentimentality.

Despite my yearning to see "just how it was", I would never have traded being 10 in 1980 for any other time in history. I made it out of my teens without losing any fingers in factory machinery, without being turned into a starch collared anti-progressive, without scars from nasty bear attacks, without being drafted off into some far-flung adventure, without being collaterally damaged by some god-awful civil war, without having to eat a few of the other travellers in my party.

While I do see people's unctious rugrats now as being pampered like little fucking Sun Kings, I can't really complain. Actually, when they make it to their 20s and 30s without the advantage of having lived outside their socially retarding safety bubbles enough, they'll get the picture. Wait, did my grandfather say that too?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Political Discourse
CHUD.com Community › Forums › POLITICS & RELIGION › Political Discourse › Steven Pinker: We are living in the most peaceful time