Soccer/Football Around The World Thread - Page 2

Geoff, that anti-Keane jibe stung!

Re: the England forward line, I'd gamble with Owen and Rooney. At least, for a game or two. As much as I love the theory behind the "little and large" striker partnership (always a mainstay of my Pro Evo Master League sides), Wayne could and gladly would do the hard graft Geoff outlined. It might not be an ideal work-ratio but it's still better than going down the Crouch/Cole route. Presumably, with Gerrard and Lampard in support, Rooney & Owen would rightly trouble a defence or two.

We did it. If there were an award for "Most Difficult Team to Watch", I think we'd nail it.

Totally, Russ. I know I didn't see that one coming. Usually, I make a point to never watch Liverpool, unless we're playing them; they angry up the blood.

I stand by my remark, though, about us being supremely tough to watch. I'm not alone in that. Yeah, the "Gooners" promise even higher tension. Nervous already!

If United don't win, I'll be ragin' but unsurprised. Everton aren't to be underestimated. Also, fair play to Rooney for not shying away from his feelings for Everton. He shouldn't be expected to simply "forget" his love for his team just because he plays for another. You'd think "real" football fans would understand that your team chooses you, not the other way around...

As for Arsenal/Chelsea, the Gunners' defensive situation may be crucial. I'd rather see them win, though. Don't know what the craic is with Cech, honestly.

What does everyone think about the Fergie/Benitez slagging match? I'm more than a little tickled by the whole thing. It wouldn't be football without a bit of theatricality.

I was just looking at the table earlier on Football Focus. Beyond West Brom, it's too tough to call. I can't see Newcastle going down either; they'll scrape by. Boro' would surprise me if they drop. Hull still have the sweat on. I'm rubbish at anticipating stuff like this, and I don't have enough animosity towards any of the clubs involved (as Citeh are, sadly, safe) to really want to see any drop.

Absolutely, Geoff. I always enjoy snowballing blue-sky transfers with people. Part of me thinks you're right about Ronaldo. Truthfully, there are times when I would support the acceptance of a potential bid like you say (and the opportunities that might enable.) Then again, the thought of Giggsy imparting his industrious mentality and all of his experience upon him makes me want to see him at O.T. for good. If Ronaldo - right now - could have modern-day Giggs's mentality he'd be an all-time great before his late 20's.

For me, Nani isn't good enough for United. Rafael and Fábio da Silva, on the other hand, absolutely are. See also Agüero and Messi (great calls!)

The present English dominance of European football featured prominently on the Sunday Supplement this morning. Anyone catch it/usually watch it? Sean Custis and Oliver Holt engaged in a thinly veiled slagging-off match on the behaviour of the British press during Japan and South Korea '02 and the "support your local club" debate. Custis won.

Not a classic, for sure, Russ. Especially hard for me. Good to see so many youngsters getting a run-out (though, Wellbeck struggled on his weaker side.) It's disappointing but not devastating. Everton's fans definitely wanted it more and I'm glad for Moyes. I'll now fully back them to dispense with Chelski.

Yeah, that's pretty cool for neutrals. Honestly, Russ, I'm still not 100% confident about United. We look too rocky under pressure. A better side than Porto would've done us. After that, all bets are off. For me, anyway.

Sorry to hear that, Russ. I think Kamara brought it up on Sunday; it's a tragedy a great side like Charlton have slipped so far so fast. And I think you're bang-on about management.

Big result for us tonight. Everton doing us a favour too! Did it do wonders for my confidence, though? No. That's how pessimistic I am.

It is, Russ! I'm not the only one who feels this way, though. Trust me, the Scouse look just as ominous to us as we must do to them. Champagne remains a shade premature for my taste.

Roy Keane is a legend and it is, indeed, tremendous to see him back in management. I'm upset for big Jim Magilton, though.

The Van Persie/Arshavin news is certainly heartening. Truthfully, there was more than a flicker at the sight of that. As for "Rafa", I agree that it didn't need to be blown up to what it was. Still... I abhor what it represents and think he should know better.

My only experience with that incident came from Goals on Sunday. The consensus on the show was that Benitez meant it as a slight or an unflattering signal regarding the opposition. It was presented as such. I'll grant you that it's easy to have your opinion coloured when stuff is presented to you in a certain way, but I never got what you said from it at all, Rusty. It's got nothing to do with what team I support either.

It may be a few days old now, but Saturday's result at Old Trafford must be paid the requisite respect. That comeback, as my learned, Red brother pointed out, was United. Furthermore, Lineker and other pundits should be ashamed of themselves for chastising Carrick and dismissing Gomez's foul on him. Never has the "one rule for United, one rule for the rest" attitude of many been more pronounced or shame-worthy. It was, truly, disgusting. Worse still was how the incident was portrayed as a "turning point" that somehow rendered Tottenham a non-entity. Redknapp offered as much himself, after the game. Did he admit that they were out-done in every way? No. That would've been too noble and just. It's easier to just pass the buck. And did any of these other individuals (and they know who they are) give United credit for blitzing Spurs? Of course not.

I never once thought that, Russ. Carrick knocked it clear, then the contact occurred. Every angle I saw it from confirmed as much. At the risk of this becoming a catchphrase, I'd say that even if I didn't support United. And that was a pretty nice moment for Ronaldo. Still think it's ridiculous to get booked for it, though.

Very surprising result, indeed. It's amazing how quickly some fans can change their tune - last night before the game, Messi was depicted as little short of a hurricane in human form. Shortly after the game, I noticed a discussion on Football 365 along the lines of "so... is he over-rated after all?" No wonder so many good people dismiss football enthusiasts.

That sounds horrible. It reminds me of the current Old Firm situation. Some Rangers and Celtic fans now seem somewhat indifferent to their clubs. They disparage them, the situation in the SPL, and don't follow events very closely; according to them, this has as much to do with boredom at the two-horse race aspect as it does the diminished quality of their football. It's sad to see, so I can only imagine how bad it must be to see your fellow fans grow frustrated or fall of the wagon. It's worse still given that most of those Charlton fans are probably one-team people, as opposed to so many of the Old Firm fans here, for example.

Lawrence has his detractors (not least of which, many of my countrymen after he left us holding the bag) but many clubs could do a lot worse. He'd do a job alright.

I was just thinking about that earlier. It winds me up, not least because it only highlights the countless stonewall non-penalties (or off-sides) that have gone without apologies. How many of those decisions were legitimate turning points in games? The difference between a 1-0 and a 0-0, as opposed to a convincing 5-2 win? Webb shouldn't have done it because it lends credence to the notion propagated by Lineker, Souness, Green, Redknapp et al that that one call "gave" United the game.

I inherited Rangers fandom, growing up here, like so many. They're very much second fiddle to United in my heart (though I always like to see them doing well and check results, etc.) Every opinion I've heard on that proposal - from one fellow casual Rangers fan, pundits, and writers - has been negative. They reject it like bigots reject reason. There seems to be no way it could happen, for them, without it becoming a travesty of some kind. I don't wholly share their skepticism. Having the Old Firm vacate the SPL would be deeply odd. It would simultaneously benefit and detract from the League. At this rate, the SPL seems destined to remain on a similarly predictable course to the Premiership forevermore. If only for entertainment value, it would spice thing up and give a lot of fans a shot in the arm. All the same, I don't think either/both clubs would have the brass to do it, or the fans to back it. Something tells me they'd be happier in stasis, being the big fish.

That was a great game. We should've destroyed Arsenal and put the tie to bed tonight. Almunia and some wasteful finishing prevented it. There were many great performances, but Fletcher, Carrick, and Rooney all stood out. The referee was suspect, at times, too.

If you can, I'd recommend catching extended highlights, Russ. Ronaldo's strike was almost another goal of the season contender. 33 yards or so at just over 60 miles an hour, I believe... stunning. Almunia just watched it fly over him. I don't think we'll play for a draw. It's just not United.

I'm glad you said that about the Old Firm. It's encouraging to finally here an opinion other than the prevailing one from someone else.

Redknapp Sr. and Jr. are lamentable. Your Dowie contempt still tickles me, by the way! I just can't dislike the guy. He did too much in the Green Shirt.

Shearer's (lack of) impact only confirms my bafflement at his appointment. I pretty much conclude with my brother, though: anything that minimizes my exposure to his unique brand of punditry is a good thing.

It's quite a relief to learn that. Yeah, that line up would be great (I always love it if the Beeb get Martin O'Neill in during tournaments. The craic between him and Hansen/Lineker is excellent.)

I did chuckle quite a lot, especially at the "utterly useless" bit. This was due partly to your attitude towards Dowie reminding me a little of my own on Harry Redknapp. I don't really mind the guy and the whole 'Appy 'Arry, archetypal "Landan Lad" made good thing doesn't annoy me like it does some. Harry's reaction to Saturday's game was the first time he really annoyed me. I don't mean to go on about it so much, but it really irked me how, instead of admitting his side were bested, he just blamed their defeat on Webb's penalty decision. Never mind the 4 other goals that United scored. He saw an opening - "the turning point" - and he grabbed it. His definition of turning point seemed to translate as "when United pulled a fast one and prevented us from fighting back."

Great result, indeed. Park's goal was sublime. Always great to see Giggsy on the score-sheet too. "Boro just lack everything" cracked me up.

Caught a fair chunk of El Derby in the pub. Very enjoyable stuff. Barca were playing some Unitedesque possession football. Messi was rampant and Madrid's shaky defence made for some very entertaining moments.

I always liked Hasselbaink as a player, but I have only a faint recollection of him being an average pundit. That said, I'd sooner listen to an average Dutch pundit than most others (except for one important exception; more on that which later.) Got a lot of time for the Netherlands. It's funny you should mention that, though; nearly every time we've watched any Champions League stuff on Sky lately, we've been comparing just that about those in the studio. It goes something like this:

My Brother - "Graeme Souness: Multiple European Cups, Multiple League Titles, League Cups, Charity Shields. The list goes on."
Me - "Ruud Gullitt: European Cups-"
My Brother - "Dutch Titles, a European Championship, Serie A's, Italian Cups. The list goes on."
Me - "Jamie Redknapp..."
My Brother - "A League Cup."

Did you see Kanouté's daisy-cutter against Villarreal, by the way? Great strike. And speaking of pundits, I've been meaning to ask your views on Irish treasure Eamon Dunphy. For anyone not familiar with the man, I recommend watching this (even/especially if you're not a football fan.) While I don't agree with everything he says, the man's entertainment value is undeniable.

Dunphy (shouting down Brady) - "It's called an-al-y-sis!"
(Souness laughs.)

I've always enjoyed Desailly too. The man's enthusiasm is undeniable. Dunphy is an absolute delight. That's just it, Russ. I'd sooner watch RTÉ, thanks solely to him.

Speaking of Charlton, I saw the (brisk) highlights from the Norwich match. Very enjoyable game for a neutral. Still find it hard to believe what's happened to both clubs. Desperate times.

My brother thinks Newcastle are down, without question. I'm hard pressed to disagree, at this stage. If they'd even got a point against the Scouse, I might have been more optimistic for them.

As for Villa/Hull - my O'Neill fondness wins the day, once again!

What a game!

Enough ink will -rightly- be spilled on the good aspects of that game, so I'll highlight some negatives that are less likely to receive appropriate exposure. After the first two went in, Tyldesley and Beglin wasted no time making excuses for Arsenal. We were "gifted" both goals (it's not like Park had to still finish his or anything.) Both goals "could've been avoided." No kidding, Clive. Almunia could've stood closer to the left posted. It's like saying Maradona could've used his head and not his hand. He didn't. Deal with it. You too, Townsend.

Although they caught themselves on a bit later on, they were still offensively short-sighted to begin with (anyone in doubt should note that Ronaldo's superb second goal didn't get their usual nit-picking treatment... because even they couldn't justify attacking a goal so clearly above it.) Like my brother said, "if that had've been Barcelona, they'd have been foaming at the mouth." It's interesting how they don't seem to have a problem getting behind any other English teams.

Totally agreed with you, Russ. Allardyce's style typifies everything I hate about Premiership Football from teams outside the top 6/7. That said, the way fans and media types fawn all over it annoys me even more. Someone needs to call them out when they confuse "bravery" with cowardly, route one football.

One last thing...

Fletcher played brilliantly. The ref had a nightmare. That the decision can't be corrected is a travesty. It's a blot on an otherwise great night, but not nearly enough to spoil it. I'd love to be back in Manchester right now. Rome, here we come!

I know what you mean. United/Barca promises epic sparks, but I really don't like Chelsea.

Dude, too far.

It was a tremendous game to just enjoy. The juvenile post-match antics from Drogba, Lampard, and Terry tainted it. From a United perspective, I'm slightly happier with Barcelona. On tonight's evidence (and Saturday's), they have more reason to fear us than we do them.

Even with my feelings about Chelsea, I wouldn't rub that shock in. I was agog when Iniesta scored. Barcelona seemed like they couldn't buy a goal, until then. I totally agree with you, Russ. Fans, players, and managers should always be gracious in defeat. There's a way to do these things and that just wasn't it. Guardiola is a man I have a lot of time for (always liked him as a player.) He and Hiddink wrapping arms around each others shoulders was a great wee moment.

Totally. Thanks, Russ. Flicking between RTÉ and Sky was very interesting tonight. Dunphy et al were much more measured than Souness and Redknapp. The general consensus there was that Barcelona never gave up, showed great courage to do so, and took their chance. Yes, they conceded that Chelsea should've had other goals from a myriad of circumstances, but they didn't. They accepted it and moved on.

I know there's never gonna be the same "let's get behind" them attitude on Irish television like you might see on British TV (if, say, Celtic or Rangers advanced) but the difference between them was plain. Redknapp was almost stammering with rage over the penalty claim incidents and, when the notion of a potential UEFA "conspiracy theory" or "plot against English clubs" was floated out there, Souness side-stepped it before adding that, essentially, "they" won't be sad to avoid another all-English final. Disappointing stuff.

At the risk of this thread needing to be re-named "Premier League Pundit Analysis", I'll throw open the floor to final speculation. What do you say, Chewers? Who's gonna lift the trophy? I'm up for the game in a big, big way and I think United have every reason to feel the same, but Barca are gonna think their name's on the trophy, after tonight. It's too hard for me to call.

What a prospect! Oh, how I laughed.

I want to hear more on your proposed final. It sounds like the Aliens of football matches.