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The Star Trek Thread - Page 52

post #2551 of 3268
4/30/12 at 11:37pm

We will end up with what? 2 more films with this cast? I would rather they go after something different then what we've seen. Seeing Khan team up with Klingon's could be fun. I just hope JJ and Co. doesn't throw in the Borg in the next film.

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post #2552 of 3268
4/30/12 at 11:41pm
Thread Starter 
At the slow rate they're making these flicks, it would be amazing if they could manage to crank out a fourth film with the cast. Like always said, they should have just made this a TV show, that's where Trek is at its best.
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post #2553 of 3268
4/30/12 at 11:52pm

The writers have repeatedly referenced the fact that Paramount is supposedly interested in doing a new TV series set within the same timeline and continuity of the new films.  I hope it happens.

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post #2554 of 3268
4/30/12 at 11:56pm

Speaking of a race that should be brought over to the theatrical films!

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post #2555 of 3268
5/14/12 at 9:21pm
Thread Starter 
237
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post #2556 of 3268
5/15/12 at 5:07pm

Well, that's just eerie.

 

Obama and Sisko

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post #2557 of 3268
5/15/12 at 8:38pm
Thread Starter 
I thought Ben Sisko would be the obvious mirror for Obama.
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post #2558 of 3268
5/16/12 at 5:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

I thought Ben Sisko would be the obvious mirror for Obama.


In character, yes.  I thought Jake was more of a doppelganger.  It's all in the chin.

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post #2559 of 3268
5/16/12 at 11:06pm

So, I got back on the wagon again and soldiered through the second season of TNG.  Good God, the first third is pretty damn awful overall.  Also, I hope Pulaski dies a horrible death at some point.  That aside, I enjoyed the latter half of the season and Season Three isn't too bad so far.  Let's hope it stays that way for my sanity's sake.

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post #2560 of 3268
5/17/12 at 2:09am
Thread Starter 
I thought Pulaski was a great addition, I never understood the hate. I found her to be a major improvement over Crusher and Diana Muldaur is far more interesting to watch than the wooden Gates McFadden. As for Season 3, I'd say that's probably the strongest and most consistent of the series. That consistency pretty much thrives all the way to the middle of the fifth season. Right after the Spock episode that's when TNG started to noticeably become inconsistent in quality, which is likely because by that point Michael Piller was focusing on the development on DS9 so for awhile TNG sort of got lost without his guidance.
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post #2561 of 3268
5/17/12 at 7:45am

She's a douche to Data.  Treats him like an inanimate object.

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post #2562 of 3268
5/17/12 at 8:58am

Yeah, they were trying to replicate the chemistry between McCoy and Spock with Pulaski and Data and it just didn't work. The adversarial relationship between Spock and McCoy was fun even though McCoy was constantly being insulting, because Spock kinda gave back as good as he got. Despite allegedly being 'emotionless', he was clearly a master when it came to sarcasm and the dry, witty put-down.

 

Data, on the other hand, completely lacked even the slightest capacity to launch any clever rejoinders against Pulaski's condescending remarks. As a result, their interaction came across more like some ignorant bigot picking on a defenseless target.

 

She started to soften up eventually, particularly in "Peak Performance" where she actually feels bad for goading Data into doing something that's ultimately bad for him. Unfortunately, by then it was too late. Her character seemed right on the verge of developing into something good just when there was no more time for it.

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post #2563 of 3268
5/17/12 at 10:51am
Thread Starter 
I think the whole "he's so mean to Data" I hear from fans is overblown. It was only in the first two episodes where the writers were misguided on how to handle that dynamic (calling him "Dah-ta" and referring to him as "it"). I'd say that it actually improved by the third episode "Elementary, Dear Data" where she's challenging Data to take on a Sherlock Holmes program rather than flat insulting him in the previous two episodes. From then on they went about it the right way. Plus, I liked that we got a character who didn't IMMEDIATELY accept Data as a sentient being. It's a pretty radical concept to take in the context of that time where Data is the only machine to be a Starfleet officer, so at first she would be a bit resistent but over time begins to value him not just as a worthy officer but also as a friend.

One thing I liked about having her in the dynamic was that she didn't take any shit from Picard. Often Crusher would whine about something, pout then stomp her feet away from the bridge but Pulaski was a lot more persistent and wasn't afraid of expressing herself. It's refreshing after the no-conflict policy Roddenberry hammered in during the first season.
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post #2564 of 3268
5/17/12 at 11:01am

The problem with Pulaski is that the idea is solid, but I think the execution left a lot to be desired. And they were blatantly trying to make a female McCoy with seemingly no understanding of how that character worked (read: he wasn't JUST a cranky asshole).

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post #2565 of 3268
5/17/12 at 11:06am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post

(read: he wasn't JUST a cranky asshole).
Neither was she.
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post #2566 of 3268
5/17/12 at 11:38am

I think the problem was that they were trying to use Pulaski to represent the sort of person who wouldn't think twice about treating Data as a sophisticated device, full stop. The problem was, aside from occasional episodes like "The Measure of a Man", the matter of Data's essential humanity was pretty much a given on the show and it put her in the extreme minority.

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post #2567 of 3268
5/17/12 at 11:54am
Thread Starter 
And yet it was a plot thread that was easily thrown aside very early in the season. By "Unnatural Selection" she pretty much accepted Data.
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post #2568 of 3268
5/17/12 at 12:32pm

My problems have nothing to do with Crusher or Data.  I have no attachment to the former and Pulaski's attitude towards the latter didn't bother me.  I just don't care for the character.

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post #2569 of 3268
5/31/12 at 8:15pm
Thread Starter 
A favorite of mine. I dig the references to ALIEN. Not surprising given that Ron Jones had a real hard on for Goldsmith.


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post #2570 of 3268
6/4/12 at 10:08am

The world's best movie is 30 years old today.

 

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post #2571 of 3268
6/4/12 at 10:27am
I know what's going in my blu ray tonight!
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post #2572 of 3268
6/26/12 at 2:52pm

So, Amazon had a sale on the Star Trek Next Gen movies Blu ray. I just popped in Generations. I am only 20 minutes in, but my first thought was that it looks dark. The Enterprise-B bridge is covered in shadows. The newsreporter's lights are bouncing around, illuminating areas that are obviously too dark. I can clearly see TNG design ethic in the way they have the bridge setup. I had forgotten how lifeless Shatner is in the beginning. He looks like he is unhappy, which is guess is part of the theme here as it is an Enterprise without him on it, but still. 

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post #2573 of 3268
6/26/12 at 4:26pm

Is there any dirt on the development of Generations?  I know Kirk's death was reshot it be more dramatic, but the whole movie seems so off.

 

I've always wondered if an exec panicked at the last minute and shoehorned in whatever TOS crew they could.

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post #2574 of 3268
6/26/12 at 4:49pm

There was a unreleased book titeld  Fade In, The Writing of Star Trek Insurrection. Here is a little write up about it.

 http://thebitterscriptreader.blogspot.com/2010/09/fade-in-making-of-star-trek.html

The book is in PDF form if you google for it, and you really  get a good idea on who screwed that movie up.

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post #2575 of 3268
6/26/12 at 5:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick View Post

There was a unreleased book titeld  Fade In, The Writing of Star Trek Insurrection. Here is a little write up about it.

 http://thebitterscriptreader.blogspot.com/2010/09/fade-in-making-of-star-trek.html

The book is in PDF form if you google for it, and you really  get a good idea on who screwed that movie up.

 

It is a really interesting read. Michael Piller wrote it before his death. 

 

 

I am currently listening to the audio commentary by the director and Manny Coto, who introduces himself as "I had nothing to do with this, but I worked on Enterprise for 2 years." Basically, Coto is questioning the director. It is interesting. Apparently my earlier comment about lighting comes directly from the cinematographer. He tried to light the entire thing from lights inside the sets, so it was supposed to look that way.

 

From Trekweb

 

 

Quote:

TrekMovie.com: Leonard Nimoy said he really didn't like the script from Generations and he felt that  he didn't want to direct it, he didn't like the Spock role, so he denied that, and he felt the Kirk death was "gratuitous." So, do you think that...


Ron Moore: Well, I knew that. Leonard turned down the script, turned down the director's chair on the film and I knew he didn't like the script. It is hard to say at this point he was wrong. I think that Kirk's death in our minds was integral to the film because it was a movie about death. It was a movie about mortality. It was a movie about Picard reaching a certain age and realizing there are more days behind him than were in front of him. His brother had died, the Enterprise herself died, and this mythic hero would ultimately have a mortal ending as well. Despite realizing we are mortal, you still move on and you still live your life and you still try and the make the most of it. That is what the movie was trying to be about. I think-Brannon and I were not ready to write that movie at that point in our careers. Our reach exceeded our grasp. We didn't have the maturity and the seasoning as writers, and probably as human beings, to tackle something that grand and marry it to an action-adventure Star Trek film. So Leonard's instincts were right. He clearly put his finger - I didn't meet with him, but I remember after he met with Rick, Rick conveyed to us his reservations and why he didn't like it. He put his finger on the right problems. The Nexus was a problem. The Nexus was a difficult concept that we were never able to crack and Kirk's death didn't pay off the themes in the way we wanted it to pay off. At the time we were doing our best and we thought it would work. We believed in the project and were trying to make it happen, but we were also writing the TV series at the same time. In retrospect it is easy to look back and say ˜here are all the problems and here is where you went south' but at the moment we were all dedicated to trying to do the best movie that we could and we thought we had a good movie on our hands.  

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post #2576 of 3268
6/27/12 at 12:38am
Thread Starter 
The commentary by Moore and Braga is a must, one of the most honest commentaries I've ever listened to getting right to what worked and what didn't. Which is ironic because Frakes' commentary for INSURRECTION was not approved by Paramount because he was apparently very openly critical about the whole project.
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post #2577 of 3268
6/27/12 at 12:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

The commentary by Moore and Braga is a must, one of the most honest commentaries I've ever listened to getting right to what worked and what didn't. Which is ironic because Frakes' commentary for INSURRECTION was not approved by Paramount because he was apparently very openly critical about the whole project.

 

Well, now I have to watch Insurrection tomorrow. There wasn't a commentary track on my dvd version, but there is one on this BR.

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post #2578 of 3268
6/27/12 at 12:54am
Thread Starter 
Yeah that was a newly recorded commentary for the blu-ray. The 2005 DVD was the one that didn't get approved, hence being the only Special Edition DVD with no audio commentary.

I haven't heard the blu-ray commentary, but Marina Sirtis is in it too, which I find interesting because she was pretty critical of INSURRECTION claiming she fell asleep at the premiere. Definitely tell us about it.
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post #2579 of 3268
6/27/12 at 2:29am

I've been watching "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" recently. Their make-up is a bit much, but the Cardassians are quite an intriguing culture, from which some very memorable and complex characters have been developed (i.e. Garak, Dukat, Damar).

 

I wonder if we'll ever see Cardassians in this franchise again. They've never been in any of the Star Trek movies (would have been way better than those dull, unnecessary 'Remans'). However, I've just discovered that, oddly enough, they have been in a movie. This is their one and only film appearance (so far?).

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post #2580 of 3268
6/27/12 at 8:25am
Thread Starter 
One of the Borg in FIRST CONTACT is Cardassian, that's as close as they ever made it in the movies.

361
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post #2581 of 3268
6/27/12 at 10:00am

Cool find! I've watched "Star Trek: First Contact" more times than I can count and I never caught that! I should have also mentioned that Gul Macet, from the TNG two-parter "Chain of Command", was one of the greatest Star Trek villains ever. Another shining example of what a fascinating race The Cardassians can be, with their ruthlessly imperialistic ways and their love of hostile interrogation and manipulation.

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post #2582 of 3268
6/27/12 at 10:11am
Thread Starter 
Putting on the nerd glasses for a moment...

You mean Gul Madred, right?.

Macet was the guy from "The Wounded" played by Marc Alaimo.
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post #2583 of 3268
6/27/12 at 10:50am

Oops! Yup, you're right. It gets a little confusing with these similar-sounding names and actors playing different roles (i.e. Alaimo, who has played two different Cardassians AND a Romulan).

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post #2584 of 3268
6/27/12 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

The commentary by Moore and Braga is a must, one of the most honest commentaries I've ever listened to getting right to what worked and what didn't. Which is ironic because Frakes' commentary for INSURRECTION was not approved by Paramount because he was apparently very openly critical about the whole project.

 

Is there a way to get our hands on the INSURRECTION commentary?  Granted I don't want to have to watch that movie again, but I just might with the commentary.

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post #2585 of 3268
6/27/12 at 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.D. Bob Plissken View Post

 Also, I hope Pulaski dies a horrible death at some point.  

 

Didn't she fall down a turbolift shaft?

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post #2586 of 3268
6/27/12 at 2:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Vivisector View Post

 

Didn't she fall down a turbolift shaft?

 

She got scurvy.

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post #2587 of 3268
6/27/12 at 3:05pm

I just heard that the adventures of the Enterprise NCC 1701 D continue on in the five part comic series Star Trek: The Next Generation: Ghosts. Has anyone read this one? Would you say it's a worthy followup to the Next Gen legacy?

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post #2588 of 3268
6/27/12 at 3:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick View Post

 

Is there a way to get our hands on the INSURRECTION commentary?  Granted I don't want to have to watch that movie again, but I just might with the commentary.


It is on the Insurection Bluray.  I just put it in. Both of them are super relaxed... like maybe liquored up. It is kinda fun. Marina Sirtis keeps saying... "I don't remember any of this."

 

 

Frakes comments: "You know the question that always gets asked about Insurrection? Why are all the Bak'u blonde haired and blue eyed"

Sirtis: They are Swedes.

 

F: 'Patrick hasn't changed much. He's richer."

S: ::snorts:: "That doesn't show."

 

Also, recurring theme from both this and First Contact commentaries. No one has any clue who the Bolians are. Twice they have been called Andorians, despite someone else saying 'Don't Andorians have antennae?'

 

The entire thing is sarcastic but funny.  I will report back with more. Frakes makes constant cracks about Dorn's ability to act. So far, I am highly reccommending it. Sirtis and Frakes have some fun chemistry.


Edited by MrTyres - 6/27/12 at 3:24pm
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post #2589 of 3268
6/27/12 at 3:21pm

Who's Fraker?  Isn't that a He-Man villain?

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post #2590 of 3268
6/27/12 at 3:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBananaGrabber View Post

Who's Fraker?  Isn't that a He-Man villain?

Fixed!

ETA: In my neck of the woods, there are tons of Frakers. There are three teachers whom I work with named Fraker. Muscle memory!

 

Additionally, one of my favorite comment characters on AVClub is Frakes, who tells of his drunken adventures around the world. It is delightful.

 

Frakes is positive about things that work and negative about things that don't. He likes Michael Piller, but he calls out places where Piller is preaching in the script. He says out loud where things are cloying or campy. The more I listen, the more I am sure they were drinking, because they get more sober as it goes on.  Lots of jokes about Patrick Stewart's character getting it on with Donna Murphy's character.

 

Frakes also constantly calls this a show, not a movie. He refers to First Contact as a show as well.


Edited by MrTyres - 6/27/12 at 3:40pm
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post #2591 of 3268
6/27/12 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTyres View Post


It is on the Insurection Bluray.  I just put it in. Both of them are super relaxed... like maybe liquored up. It is kinda fun. Marina Sirtis keeps saying... "I don't remember any of this."

 

 

Frakes comments: "You know the question that always gets asked about Insurrection? Why are all the Bak'u blonde haired and blue eyed"

Sirtis: They are Swedes.

 

F: 'Patrick hasn't changed much. He's richer."

S: ::snorts:: "That doesn't show."

 

Also, recurring theme from both this and First Contact commentaries. No one has any clue who the Bolians are. Twice they have been called Andorians, despite someone else saying 'Don't Andorians have antennae?'

 

The entire thing is sarcastic but funny.  I will report back with more. Frakes makes constant cracks about Dorn's ability to act. So far, I am highly reccommending it. Sirtis and Frakes have some fun chemistry.

But I don't want to spend real money on this blu ray.. But I really want to listen to this commentary.  So  it is the "not approved by Paramount"  commentary then?

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post #2592 of 3268
6/27/12 at 6:33pm

There are many youtube videos that have it.  It sounds like the commentary I listened to. All of the references Frakes and Sirtis make seem like it is from the recording in 2005.
 

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post #2593 of 3268
6/27/12 at 6:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTyres View Post

There are many youtube videos that have it.  It sounds like the commentary I listened to. All of the references Frakes and Sirtis make seem like it is from the recording in 2005.

 

Thanks for that. That commentary is hilarious.
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post #2594 of 3268
6/27/12 at 9:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick View Post

But I don't want to spend real money on this blu ray.. But I really want to listen to this commentary.  So  it is the "not approved by Paramount"  commentary then?

Far as I know that particular commentary (where it's just him alone) never got released in any form. Maybe it will in the future, perhaps leaked. It took a whole decade for the Michael Piller book to get leaked. Only details I know about it is that he criticizes the script for being half-assed and that besides a few character moments he never was completely satisfied.

I do gotta give Frakes some props for his work for the two films he directed, such as bringing out that sense of camaraderie among the crew, which was sorely neglected in GENERATIONS and NEMESIS. Plus you got to see the characters really loosen up and get their moment to shine.
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post #2595 of 3268
7/3/12 at 4:20pm

Should I watch Nemesis or Insurrection again?  I haven't seen them since they came out in theaters.

 

I still manage to watch, and find affection for First Contact, and even Generations.

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post #2596 of 3268
7/3/12 at 5:04pm

Watch RedLetterMedia's reviews of them instead.

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post #2597 of 3268
7/3/12 at 5:08pm

Having just watched both of them... go with Hammerhead.  Insurrection has some glaring issues that make it seem much more like an Episode. Nemesis makes me want to punch Klingons. Outside of the nice starship design, it is so bad in parts.

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post #2598 of 3268
7/3/12 at 5:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTyres View Post

Having just watched both of them... go with Hammerhead.  Insurrection has some glaring issues that make it seem much more like an Episode. Nemesis makes me want to punch Klingons. Outside of the nice starship design, it is so bad in parts.

Do you prefer Enterprise E or D?
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post #2599 of 3268
7/4/12 at 1:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harford View Post


Do you prefer Enterprise E or D?


I was talking mainly about the Romulans. The last two Star Trek films have taken the antagonist culture I like second best (I love you Cardassia!) and screwed them. But the Valdore and even the Scimitar look nice.

 

About the E... I am torn. I think it looks better than the D. The D's saucer was too big in comparison to the secondary hull, but the E has no neck, suffering Voyager syndrome. Only its ample nacelles help keeping it from looking like a flattened toad. It is also too big a jump in lineade from the D. It is decidely too militaristc for my taste. The other ships could be compared to swans in space. The Enterprise-E looked like an arrow.  I was a fan of the Enterprise C. Lost that bosom that the B had, but looked trim and spry.

 

I was always a fan of Star Trek starship porn, and have lots of cgi fan creations on my desktop. I particularly like this mix of the D and E, but it is one of the only images I can find with that design.

 

ph-10144.jpg

Click to enlarge.

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post #2600 of 3268
7/4/12 at 9:54am
Thread Starter 
I prefer the E, and the new darker uniforms. More military for sure but it certainly reflects the era of the Borg/Dominion threat and the uniforms especially fit like a glove when carried over on DS9.
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