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The Star Trek Thread - Page 56

post #2751 of 4152
Thread Starter 
I thought the two-parter did a good job of taking a dumb cliffhanger and turning it into an equally dumb yet fun story that already felt like TOS in the sense that they sort of accepted the absurdity of the situation and just had fun with it. Archer teaming up with the mob, the Enterprise flying over New York City with fighter planes attacking, Archer telling Daniels to go fuck himself as the ending of the Temporal Cold War arc. I also liked Golden Brooks a lot as the guest star of it. Jack Gwaltney hamming it up as the Nazi Alien.

It didn't feel like a season opener though, more like a leftover the first two seasons but without the ineptness, with "Home" making a good epilogue to the third season. That's why I consider "Borderland" the real beginning of the new season and the rebirth/relaunch of ENT.
post #2752 of 4152

If I have the history right, the Season 3 cliffhanger was a "Fuck you new showrunners, I'm out of here" type deal. Once Season 4 mopped up from that, and dispensed with the "Temporal Cold War" plot for good, the show was free to dig into becoming the TOS prequel it should have been all along.

post #2753 of 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

 

 I did like the Andorans: a race we saw too little of in TOS is given a great background and storyline in Enterprise.

 

I'm also a fan of how the Vulcans are portrayed. Doesn't hurt that Jolene Blaylock is hawt (though she looks partied out in the later season episodes I saw her in).

 

Those last few episodes of Enterprise were pretty damn fun. (again, minus that piece of crap finale)

I liked the twist they threw at the Orion 'slave' girls. 

I also dug seeing the Tholians and Gorns.

 

I just read over on wiki about the plans for a season 5. It might have been good.

post #2754 of 4152
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post

If I have the history right, the Season 3 cliffhanger was a "Fuck you new showrunners, I'm out of here" type deal. Once Season 4 mopped up from that, and dispensed with the "Temporal Cold War" plot for good, the show was free to dig into becoming the TOS prequel it should have been all along.

That's pretty much how it went. The show was on the verge of cancellation in S3, so Berman & Braga basically used that crazy cliffhanger as a way of putting UPN on the spot so they wouldn't cancel the show on such a note.
post #2755 of 4152

So I just watched the Season 3 finale of Enterprise, then Storm Front 1 & 2 and now Borderland (I'd seen Home before). Gotta say, the show went from "meh" in S1 to "Bleh" in S1 & S3 to "AWESOME" in S4 (so far).

 

Again the show confounds my negative expectations, with a (mostly) great take on the by now standard "Nazis Win WWII" scenario, some cool Nazi Aliens (sure they were just pretending but man they sure liked walking around in those uniforms!). Then "Borderland" with Brent Spiner gently masticating scenery, the Orion Slave Girl, and Klingons, plus the Augments are pretty cool although so far they don't seem to be all that smart.

 

I also like how Archer and Head Nazi Alien have a conversation rather than some grandstanding speechifying. And the debate about Genetic Engineering is pretty damn current if you ask me.

post #2756 of 4152
Thread Starter 
The Vulcan trilogy is probably my favorite arc of the fourth season. It addresses a lot of the problems during the first two seasons and uses them to its advantage. Worst thing I can say about S4 (aside from the finale) is that it does feel like damage control for the first two seasons as a way to try to tie things up with TOS much better, even stuff like the appearance of the Klingons which was ultimately cleverly done but kind of unnecessary. Makes me more curious of how S5 would have turned out once they got all that stuff aside. The last couple of episodes were really good and the "In a Mirror, Darkly" two-parter is a hoot.
post #2757 of 4152
I really like the way they handled the transition to TOS era Klingons. Sue me I thought it was clever.
post #2758 of 4152
Thread Starter 
Tying it with the augments was clever. Still, I get a kick out of Worf's simple explanation "we do NOT discuss it with outsiders".
post #2759 of 4152
Oh yeah, Worf's line was great. The only nitpick is Bashier, O'brien, etc..not knowing how Klingons of that era looked.
post #2760 of 4152
Thread Starter 
I think that was part of the whole joke, them not knowing jack about the 23rd century, particularly O'Brien who thinks he saw Kirk at the bar but it's actually an extra (who happens to be Shatner's double in fight scenes).

And I do like this exchange that has fun with that banter while at the same time being a throwback:

post #2761 of 4152

Just watched the "Augments" episode of Enterprise, so I've now completed the "Augment Trilogy". Pretty damn good. That Augment "No 2" woman had some incredible Ta tat's! So much so that the Head Augment stares at them (and her ass) constantly. So does her "Dad" Nonan Soong!

post #2762 of 4152

Isn't Enterprise rolling out in Blu in 2013 as well?

post #2763 of 4152
Thread Starter 
Yup. I don't own any of the seasons of ENT so I'll definitely grab S4 when it comes out. The same team that's been doing the docs for the TNG blus will be working on ENT as well, so it should be with cast and crew looking back on the show with more candid comments, especially from Braga who has never been shy to criticize his own work (his commentary with Ron Moore on the DVD for Generations was one of the more honest and insightful commentaries I've ever heard).
post #2764 of 4152

I wouldn't be that surprised. Enterprise was shot in HD on film. It wouldn't take much work to put it on Bluray.

post #2765 of 4152
Thread Starter 
Yup, no restoration work required. As fun as it is seeing TNG get restored, it's DS9 I'm really eying for.
post #2766 of 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTyres View Post

I wouldn't be that surprised. Enterprise was shot in HD on film. It wouldn't take much work to put it on Bluray.

 

The advantage isn't that the series was shot on film*-- all of the shows, including TOS, originated on 35mm. The difference is that ENT episodes were completed and mastered at HD resolution, as opposed to TNG, DS9, and VOY, which only received standard-def post-production for their original broadcasts.

 

*In fact, Season 4 was shot digitally.

post #2767 of 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post

 

The advantage isn't that the series (except for Season 4) was shot on film-- all of the shows, including TOS, originated on 35mm. The difference is that ENT episodes were completed and mastered at HD resolution, as opposed to TNG, DS9, and VOY, which only received standard-def post-production for their original broadcasts.


Or what Hammerhead said with better clarity than I did.  Masters on video. No eye to posterity? It's like Hollywood just tossing old films because of lack of storage facilities.

post #2768 of 4152

Again, to be fair, the '80s and '90s shows were mastered at "only" standard definition because it was, well, the standard. The new high-definition upgrades wouldn't be possible if Paramount hadn't thoughtfully archived all the original 35mm elements.

post #2769 of 4152
Thread Starter 
The film-to-video post production method in its day was considered very state-of-the-art and pretty much acceptable when you consider the TVs that TNG was shown during the 80s and 90s in broadcast and it was much cheaper than doing post work on film. I think by that point only a few TV shows such as Quantum Leap were completed on film.
post #2770 of 4152

Just watched the "Mirror Darkly" episodes of Enterprise, which should have just been titled "WTF?!"

 

It features the "Eeeevil" counterparts to the Enterprise crew, but unlike in TOS or DS9, there is no plot connecting them to the "real" crew: it's a self contained "Mirror Universe" story. These two episodes are notable for not having the Godawful opening song, opting instead to show us the evolution of the Evil Universe with a military theme music (no lyrics thank God) playing. Apparently in this Universe only Humanity is really evil; the Vulcans, Andorans etc are more or less the same as in the real 'verse.

 

Oh and you know how you can tell the women here are bad? They all wear BELLY SHIRTS! And Ta'Pol wears RED EYELINER because red = HATE! LOL.

 

I did like the plot, which involves Evil Archer learning of a ship from the "real" universe getting pulled into the Evilverse by the Tholians, so he hijacks Enterprise to go get it. Turns out the ship in question is the USS Defiant, from Kirk Era Star Trek, AKA 100 years ahead in time as well as from a different universe. Nonetheless Evil Archer and crew figure out how to fly it and decide to take over the Earth Empire. Oh and Archer dons the Kirk Era green shirt which seemingly gives him Kirk Swagger, which he doesn't display before the change of clothes.

 

I really like how this show and DS9 shows us a faithful TOS ship at a greater scale than TOS could show. Those primary colors really pop! Also the TOS era controls look a lot like Legos and the Scanner and targeting computers look like ViewMasters.

 

All in all it's an entertaining pair of episodes that make no sense at all, esp since in TOS the first time the Evil Universe learns of the "real" universe is when Kirk gets zapped there by accident. In the DS9 Mirror episodes it's made clear that Kirk was the first time the Mirror folk encountered "Goodness" and it had a major impact on their Universe. Oh well, I guess this was yet another parallel universe, different from the Mirrorverse shown in TOS and DS9.

 

Now into the home stretch!

post #2771 of 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post
I really like how this show and DS9 shows us a faithful TOS ship at a greater scale than TOS could show. Those primary colors really pop! Also the TOS era controls look a lot like Legos and the Scanner and targeting computers look like ViewMasters.

I heard that, in the original series, some of the buttons on the Enterprise were actually jelly beans! I love those Mirror episodes, whack as they may be. I enjoy the narrative acrobatics required to get that episode in continuity.

 

It's one thing for it to occur in an alternate universe, but what a stretch that it doesn't just occur in an alternate universe, it involves something from the regular universe going into the alternate universe. They find the ship from "The Tholian Web" in the alternate universe because the reason the people in the regular universe lost that ship was because it went through some kind of alternate dimensional portal (I guess?) and ended up stuck in the alternate universe? It's so far-fetched, but the episodes are so damn fun, I can't really care too much. I just go with it.

 

Getting to play mirror universe characters gives the whole cast a jolt of new charisma. I love the doctor becoming a sadistic prick "WILL YOU KINDLY DIE?", evil temptress Hoshi, and even T'Pol seducing someone to get her way, although her personality doesn't seem to have changed much. Archer as a hammy bully is fun too.


Edited by Naisu Baddi - 1/3/13 at 11:11pm
post #2772 of 4152

Speaking as someone who swooned over Linda Park from "Broken Bow" on, it breaks my heart that she only got some fun stuff to play just as the show was wrapping up.

post #2773 of 4152
Thread Starter 
I get a kick out of EEEVIL Archer, Bakula really chews it up and spits it out. And his psychotic episodes where he sees the "good" Archer taunting him about how everyone is against him, causing him to go on some kind of tantrum or kill someone. Also dig Mirror Trip with his scarred up face "I've absorbed enough delta rays to guarantee my grandchildren glow in the dark."

Yeah, totally nonsensical but then again the Mirror Universe always has been from the get go. It's really just to have the actors have some fun playing out of character.
post #2774 of 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naisu Baddi View Post

It's so far-fetched, but the episodes are so damn fun, I can't really care too much. I just go with it.

 

Star Trek...."far-fetched"??

 

post #2775 of 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naisu Baddi View Post

 

It's one thing for it to occur in an alternate universe, but what a stretch that it doesn't just occur in an alternate universe, it involves something from the regular universe going into the alternate universe. They find the ship from "The Tholian Web" in the alternate universe because the reason the people in the regular universe lost that ship was because it went through some kind of alternate dimensional portal (I guess?) and ended up stuck in the alternate universe? It's so far-fetched, but the episodes are so damn fun, I can't really care too much. I just go with it.

 

Getting to play mirror universe characters gives the whole cast a jolt of new charisma. I love the doctor becoming a sadistic prick "WILL YOU KINDLY DIE?", evil temptress Hoshi, and even T'Pol seducing someone to get her way, although her personality doesn't seem to have changed much. Archer as a hammy bully is fun too.

 

 

I completely missed that referencer to TOS! WHAT A FOOL I AM!

post #2776 of 4152

Spent the first twenty minutes of "Demons" wondering if the chief Bad Guy was in fact Peter Weller (I missed the opening credits and didn't want to "re-wind"). SPOILER: It was!

 

Definetly a lighter Enterprise even though the themes and stakes were pretty high. Also detected echos of an important plot thread from Babylon 5!

 

Oh and was the Doctor treating the SPOILER

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Trip/T'Pol Hybrid Baby

 

SPOILER the eeeevil Comic from Mad Men? Why yes it was! There is also a Hot Reporter who is Up To No Good, and also uses this really annoying HeadCam thing, in the tradition of Annoying Reporters in Trek (See ST: Generations esp).

 

All in all a fun, breezy, almost Bondian (Moore Era) show with a pretty cool ending.

 

I'll wait till tomorrow to see THE EXCITING CONCLUSION!


Edited by Cylon Baby - 1/3/13 at 10:19am
post #2777 of 4152
Thread Starter 
It's pretty much universally accepted by fans that Demons/Terra Prime was the true finale of ENT, as it actually feels like a proper ending. "These Are the Voyages" is so badly regarded that even the follow up books totally ignore the events of it and have Trip alive and well. TATV might as well just be some weird holographic program by Riker.

And I still can't understand how it's supposed to function as a tie-in to TNG's "The Pegasus".
post #2778 of 4152
Thread Starter 
Today marks the 20th anniversary of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. IMO of all the Trek TV pilots, "Emissary" is the best of all five. It does a very solid job at setting the stage for the series while giving Sisko a great character arc. I favor TOS more but DS9 has the best track record for consistency in quality storytelling.


post #2779 of 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

It's pretty much universally accepted by fans that Demons/Terra Prime was the true finale of ENT, as it actually feels like a proper ending. "These Are the Voyages" is so badly regarded that even the follow up books totally ignore the events of it and have Trip alive and well. TATV might as well just be some weird holographic program by Riker.
And I still can't understand how it's supposed to function as a tie-in to TNG's "The Pegasus".

 

 

And having just watched Terra Prime I understand why. A really amazing Trek story, almost a 40 minute movie. I was totally invested the whole runtime.

 

And did I tear up when Archer gave his speech to the alien delegates? You bet I did!

 

And did the tears really flow at T'Pol and Trip's last scene together? Yes, yes I did.

 

Based on this showing I'd love to see Peter Weller return to the Trek universe, and he'd also be aces as Lex Luthor. Hell even the music score went from "meh" to 11 for this episode.

 

Now I'm debating on whether to watch the derided "final final " episode or instead watch the first episode of DS9 in honor of it's 20th anniversary.

post #2780 of 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

 

 

And having just watched Terra Prime I understand why. A really amazing Trek story, almost a 40 minute movie. I was totally invested the whole runtime.

 

And did I tear up when Archer gave his speech to the alien delegates? You bet I did!

 

And did the tears really flow at T'Pol and Trip's last scene together? Yes, yes I did.

 

Based on this showing I'd love to see Peter Weller return to the Trek universe, and he'd also be aces as Lex Luthor. Hell even the music score went from "meh" to 11 for this episode.

 

Now I'm debating on whether to watch the derided "final final " episode or instead watch the first episode of DS9 in honor of it's 20th anniversary.

 

IMO, you should skip the last episode....I wish I had.

It's the epitome of crap, especially following the final run of good episodes.

post #2781 of 4152

Yep watching DS9!

post #2782 of 4152
Thread Starter 
The only good part of the ENT finale is the final thirty seconds with Picard, Kirk then Archer delivering the famous monologue.


post #2783 of 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

The only good part of the ENT finale is the final thirty seconds with Picard, Kirk then Archer delivering the famous monologue.

 

See, while this is touching, it's indicative of everything I dislike about this stretch of Trek.  It feels like all these shows used The Next Generation as a starting/jumping off point, rather than the original series.  I like TNG and DS9, but I think TOS is still the best.  Why not go in broadcast order, or chronological order?  I didn't watch Enterprise, so if there's some in-show reason let me know, but I think it's because they were aiming these shows at an audience who got into Star Trek with TNG and not Kirk & crew.

post #2784 of 4152

So...

 

I've never seen DS9.  I understand that it's on Netflix streaming.

 

Should I?  If so, start at the beginning?  Anything I should skip?

post #2785 of 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by wydren View Post

 

See, while this is touching, it's indicative of everything I dislike about this stretch of Trek.  It feels like all these shows used The Next Generation as a starting/jumping off point, rather than the original series.  I like TNG and DS9, but I think TOS is still the best.  Why not go in broadcast order, or chronological order?  I didn't watch Enterprise, so if there's some in-show reason let me know, but I think it's because they were aiming these shows at an audience who got into Star Trek with TNG and not Kirk & crew.

 

The ENT finale was the guiltiest of this, but I think it wasn't so much an attempt to ingratiate audiences as it was the producers looking back on their own involvement with the franchise, which started with TNG. It's not as much of an issue throughout the rest of the series.

 

ENT does resemble the Next Gen shows more than it does TOS, but that's to be expected given when it was made and by whom.


Edited by Hammerhead - 1/4/13 at 8:19pm
post #2786 of 4152
Thread Starter 
The sequence started with the Enterprise-D because the last scene in the episode took place during that era and it transitions into those final 30 seconds, going back in time in reverse chronological order (24th century, then 23rd then 22nd) which is why Kirk is in the middle.

But you are right to an extent. The early seasons of ENT felt a lot more connected to TNG than TOS likely because the showrunners at that time didn't like the older show, thinking it was just camp. Wasn't until a change of showrunners that ENT started to feel more like a true predecessor of TOS era focusing on similar themes and certain threads. That's why "These Are the Voyages" sticks out like a sore thumb in the fourth season because the original showrunners came back to write that episode and of course it was more TNG centered, only literally this time featuring RIker and Troi in the holodeck watching Archer & crew.

post #2787 of 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post


And having just watched Terra Prime I understand why. A really amazing Trek story, almost a 40 minute movie. I was totally invested the whole runtime.

And did I tear up when Archer gave his speech to the alien delegates? You bet I did!

And did the tears really flow at T'Pol and Trip's last scene together? Yes, yes I did.

Based on this showing I'd love to see Peter Weller return to the Trek universe, and he'd also be aces as Lex Luthor. Hell even the music score went from "meh" to 11 for this episode.

Now I'm debating on whether to watch the derided "final final " episode or instead watch the first episode of DS9 in honor of it's 20th anniversary.

The final episode of Enterprise is indispensable for the Riker and Troi cameos. You must check it out at some point. I stopped watching Enterprise early in season two, and then started up again as the show was ending but also supposedly getting better at the end of series four. Seeing Riker back in fighting form after the disaster of Star Trek Nemisis was one of the coolest TV moments I've ever had. For just a few brilliant minutes, TNG lived again.


Eta if they had used Riker as a consistent framing device for the episodes, I'd never have stopped watching. Just like if Harrison Ford had played old eye patch Indy, Young Indiana Jones Chronicles would have been the greatest thing ever.
post #2788 of 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook View Post

So...

I've never seen DS9.  I understand that it's on Netflix streaming.

Should I?  If so, start at the beginning?  Anything I should skip?

Skip nothing. DS9 is a genuine pleasure to watch, and some of the finest Trek ever put to film. I hope you give it a shot.

First also rewatch Best of Both Worlds (the Next Generation cliff hanger episodes) as it is critical to understanding the pilot for DS9.
post #2789 of 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

But you are right to an extent. The early seasons of ENT felt a lot more connected to TNG than TOS likely because the showrunners at that time didn't like the older show, thinking it was just camp.

Yeah, that might explain why I've started to dislike the more recent Trek shows as I get older.  Sure, parts of TOS were campy, but no campier than some of the recent series appear now.  And it had actual, honest-to-God sci-fi writers for a lot of episodes.  I guess I just don't see the point in making a Star Trek show if you didn't like Star Trek.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

Wasn't until a change of showrunners that ENT started to feel more like a true predecessor of TOS era focusing on similar themes and certain threads.

So you're saying I should watch more Enterprise?  I've watched about half of the first season and passed.  When did the showrunners change?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harford View Post


Skip nothing. DS9 is a genuine pleasure to watch, and some of the finest Trek ever put to film. I hope you give it a shot.

 

Yeah, DS9 is my favorite of the new Trek shows (I keep saying that.  Is it fair to call these "new" Trek when TNG is over 20 years old?).  It doesn't try to be like Star Trek, and instead tells its own story set on a space station.  I kind of don't like it because it pisses all over Roddenberry's optimism, what with the war and the Section 31 stuff, but it works with the more modern, semi-cynical feel that the new shows had.

post #2790 of 4152
Thread Starter 
I don't mind the idea of Riker looking back to Archer's day in a holodeck, but I do think it's terrible that they use that as the finale and having all the characters be mere holographic representations puts a lot of distance between them and viewers. Might have worked better as a mid-season entry, something like VOY's excellent "Living Witness" that covered similar ground. Beyond that, "These Are the Voyages" is just a poor episode, Riker or no RIker.
post #2791 of 4152

I think DS9 is a tough watch in the early going. I watched like a season and a half and then debated just not continuing because I was so bored. Even the early episodes that people really love (like "Duet") didn't do much for me. After a few months, I went back to the series and towards the end of season 2, started to find it a little more watchable.

 

Season 3 was when I felt it started becoming consistently enjoyable and season 4 is when it became consistently great and never looked back (aside from the occasional awful, ill-conceived episode, which is to be expected with any long-running series). If I had to do it all over again, I'd probably just go online and mostly read summaries of what happened in the ongoing story lines of seasons 1 and 2 instead of watching all their episodes. Then I'd start watching regularly with season 3. 

 

Whenever I re-watch the series, I watch a handful of episodes from the first few seasons and don't really start watching a lot until season 4. In the period of 1993-1995, I think the people behind Star Trek were in a creative low. The last season of TNG was often terrible, with only a couple of standout episodes.

 

DS9 had a lot of potential, but felt to me in many ways like warmed over TNG leftovers. Many early episodes have the same plodding, uninspired, mediocre quality as TNG in its early seasons, only with better production design. Around this same time, "Star Trek: Generations" and "Voyager" arrived and were both dismal.

 

It's in 1996 that Star Trek started to bounce back, and I actually consider that the best year of the franchise. Lots of well-earned reverence going around for the original series due to its 30th anniversary. "Star Trek: First Contact" comes out, giving the TNG their only good picture, and DS9 hits its stride with the solid back half of season 4 and the often brilliant season 5. 

post #2792 of 4152
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wydren View Post

So you're saying I should watch more Enterprise?  I've watched about half of the first season and passed.  When did the showrunners change?
Season 4. The first three episodes focus on tying things up from the previous three seasons, it's really the fourth episode "Borderland" where the show reboots itself in a sense and moves forward to more TOS ideas.
Quote:
Yeah, DS9 is my favorite of the new Trek shows (I keep saying that.  Is it fair to call these "new" Trek when TNG is over 20 years old?).  It doesn't try to be like Star Trek, and instead tells its own story set on a space station.  I kind of don't like it because it pisses all over Roddenberry's optimism, what with the war and the Section 31 stuff, but it works with the more modern, semi-cynical feel that the new shows had.
Funny, the writers of DS9 were bigger fans of TOS, as a result the show for me feels more like a follow-up to the ideas of TOS than TNG, as the show dissects the flawed idea of a pure utopia TNG tried to sell and it moves back towards TOS's idea of humanity having evolved yet still carrying the same flaws it has had from the beginning. I'm pretty sure Roddenberry of the 60s would have been proud of DS9 as Fontana and Bjo Trimble said. But there's no doubt that the 80s Roddenberry would have had a heart attack over Section 31 alone.
post #2793 of 4152
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naisu Baddi View Post

I think DS9 is a tough watch in the early going. I watched like a season and a half and then debated just not continuing because I was so bored. Even the early episodes that people really love (like "Duet") didn't do much for me. After a few months, I went back to the series and towards the end of season 2, started to find it a little more watchable.

Season 3 was when I felt it started becoming consistently enjoyable and season 4 is when it became consistently great and never looked back (aside from the occasional awful, ill-conceived episode, which is to be expected with any long-running series). If I had to do it all over again, I'd probably just go online and mostly read summaries of what happened in the ongoing story lines of seasons 1 and 2 instead of watching all their episodes. Then I'd start watching regularly with season 3. 

Whenever I re-watch the series, I watch a handful of episodes from the first few seasons and don't really start watching a lot until season 4. In the period of 1993-1995, I think the people behind Star Trek were in a creative low. The last season of TNG was often terrible, with only a couple of standout episodes.

DS9 had a lot of potential, but felt to me in many ways like warmed over TNG leftovers. Many early episodes have the same plodding, uninspired, mediocre quality as TNG in its early seasons, only with better production design. Around this same time, "Star Trek: Generations" and "Voyager" were dismal.

It's in 1996 that the franchise started to bounce back, and I actually consider that the best year of the franchise. Lots of well-earned reverence going around for the original series due to its 30th anniversary, "Star Trek: First Contact" comes out, giving the TNG their only good picture, and DS9 hits its stride with the solid back half of season 4 and the often brilliant season 5. 

I agree to an extent. DS9's first season definitely feels like a TNG sister show more than its own, especially since it carried some TNG stuff like Q. I think it's with S2 that it really begins to become its own thing and by S4 it's definitely firing on all cylinders.
post #2794 of 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

Funny, the writers of DS9 were bigger fans of TOS, as a result the show for me feels more like a follow-up to the ideas of TOS than TNG, as the show dissects the flawed idea of a pure utopia TNG tried to sell and it moves back towards TOS's idea of humanity having evolved yet still carrying the same flaws it has had from the beginning. I'm pretty sure Roddenberry of the 60s would have been proud of DS9 as Fontana and Bjo Trimble said. But there's no doubt that the 80s Roddenberry would have had a heart attack over Section 31 alone.

I could definitely see that, not knowing all the backstory of the 90's shows (I think that's a fair term to describe them, even though they stretched from the late 80's to the early 2000's).  I didn't like the idea of Section 31, but I can at least see where they were going with it, and it's used for good storytelling, so I can forgive it.

post #2795 of 4152
Thread Starter 
I'm fine with the idea, as I believe there will always be those in the shadows willing to break the rules just so that people can sleep well at night. Even though Section 31 was never made up until DS9, it's not hard to imagine them taking place in several TOS events such as when Kirk was given secret orders to cross the neutral zone to steal the Romulan cloaking device, or being a part of the conspiracy in The Undiscovered Country.
post #2796 of 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naisu Baddi View Post

Season 3 was when I felt it started becoming consistently enjoyable and season 4 is when it became consistently great and never looked back (aside from the occasional awful, ill-conceived episode, which is to be expected with any long-running series). If I had to do it all over again, I'd probably just go online and mostly read summaries of what happened in the ongoing story lines of seasons 1 and 2 instead of watching all their episodes. Then I'd start watching regularly with season 3. 

 

Sounds like my plan.

post #2797 of 4152

I cannot say this enough, but if you are coming to the series for the first time, read the AV Club Reviews. Zach Handlen, the writer, has reviewed ALL of TOS and TNG, and is midway through Season 4 right now of DS9. He comes at it with a fresh perspective that is really enlightening. Plus, the DS9 Commentariat is gold. Rapping Jake Sisco is solid gold.

post #2798 of 4152

Would the reviews be preferable to the Wikipedia summaries for each episode of seasons 1 and 2?

post #2799 of 4152
Thread Starter 
I'd say just watch the show from start to finish, don't skip anything, make up your own mind on each episode.
post #2800 of 4152

I don't know if I can swing the time to watch all 176 episodes...

 

I may start with episode 1.  If I grow impatient, I'll start skipping.  I'm terribly excited, I have to say.

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