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The Star Trek Thread - Page 57

post #2801 of 4088
Thread Starter 
Problem is you might be skipping something you could have enjoyed. Of course there will be bumps like there always are on such long running shows, but in the end you may find it overall rewarding having finished it all.

What method are you thinking of watching it? One episode or a couple a day?
post #2802 of 4088

I wouldn't read those A.V. Club reviews until you're very familiar with the episodes, or have watched them at least once. They're not a guide to what happened. There's Wikipedia for that, or better yet, Memory Alpha, which is like Wikipedia, but with lots of fun behind the scenes info, since it's a Star Trek wiki.

 

The A.V. Club reviews are more like companion pieces or supplements you can enjoy after watching an episode. Reading them before watching an episode would be like reading an essay about a movie you've never seen or even heard of. Or watching the extras on a DVD without watching the picture first.

 

Sometimes the guy doesn't even get to what happened in the episode until late in the review, because he's doing stuff like analyzing it thematically. I second the recommendation of the reviews. I think Handlen is too harsh or picky sometimes, but he's one of the best writers on that site and his Star Trek reviews have been one of its most reliably high quality features for a long time now.

post #2803 of 4088

I've been going through DS9, and am nearly at the end of S3. The Pilot is a must watch, if anything. One of the best Trek stories I've ever seen, easily. After that, I'd say watch the first few episodes of season 1 to get a sense of the characters, then skip to the finale episodes and the season premier eps of S2. Most of S3 is pretty skippable in terms of plot, but the show's been hitting a better stride for me. I certainly don't regret watching every episode so far, but I understand if you're pressed for time.

post #2804 of 4088

Fine.  I'll watch all of them.  But if my wife gets mad at me, I'll have her speak to you guys about this.

 

You made me do it!!

post #2805 of 4088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook View Post

Fine.  I'll watch all of them.  But if my wife gets mad at me, I'll have her speak to you guys about this.

 

You made me do it!!

 

always other options...


post #2806 of 4088
What is everyone's favorite Enterprise? A,B,C,D,E,NX or Abrams?
post #2807 of 4088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harford View Post

What is everyone's favorite Enterprise? A,B,C,D,E,NX or Abrams?

 

I'd have to say my favorite Enterprise is the refit that first debuted in TMP.  The ship has never looked classier.  I'm also a fan of the refit at the end of IV, the NCC-1701A.

post #2808 of 4088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harford View Post

What is everyone's favorite Enterprise? A,B,C,D,E,NX or Abrams?

 

Classic, TOS era one.

post #2809 of 4088

Dr Harford, The...Enterprise NCC-1701, with William Shatner as Captain James Tiberius Kirk! 2nd would be the Enterprise re-fit in The Motion Picture, 3rd is the Enterprise A, followed by the...Enterprise E for Forth!

post #2810 of 4088

While the TOS is the classic, I like the E best of all. It just looks more purpose built....like it's capable of kicking ass. <nerd hat falls off>

post #2811 of 4088

I think we can all agree that the Enterprise D looks like ass.

post #2812 of 4088

points of reference...

 

  

post #2813 of 4088
Thread Starter 
The best ship to explore with: The refit Enterprise.
The best ship for battle: Ben Sisko's Motherfucking Pimp Hand, aka The Defiant
post #2814 of 4088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook View Post

I think we can all agree that the Enterprise D looks like ass.

No way! It is my favorite, followed by the E - too harsh and warlike, though I think it's an elegant design.

The D is the most majestic and futuristic. The careful mathematical curves and minimalist design of the nacelles, the wide, gently sloped saucer section. The imperiously swooping neck of the craft.

She's a fine ship. Bluff and weatherly. Every other Enterprise looks like a warship. The Enterprise D looked like a true vessel of peaceful exploration, the massively wide dish giving the impression that everyone on board has a row of front row seat to history. In that sense the gentle oval shape I believe suggests community, rather than the hierarchy implied in ship design where special prominence is given to the bridge and nose (the attack section) of the craft. The D presents a welcoming and pleasent exterior.
post #2815 of 4088
TOS Enterprise followed by the Refit.

Enterprise D doesn't suck...but it's not great either.
post #2816 of 4088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul755 View Post

TOS Enterprise followed by the Refit.
Enterprise D doesn't suck...but it's not great either.

 

I only meant in context.  Of the Enterprises, I think it's the most boring and sort of bleh design.  It feels too... top heavy.

 

The E looks fucking mean.  Like an Aston Martin V-12 Vanquish or an Audi A5.

post #2817 of 4088

Give me Kirk's NCC-1701 and I"ll take you all on!

 

Enterprise C, F and G look like Ass.

post #2818 of 4088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook View Post

I only meant in context.  Of the Enterprises, I think it's the most boring and sort of bleh design.  It feels too... top heavy.

The E looks fucking mean.  Like an Aston Martin V-12 Vanquish or an Audi A5.
I never liked the bridge of the D. Looked too much like a living room.

And yeah, the E is pretty badass....except when Riker flew it with a fucking joystick.
post #2819 of 4088

I love the D and E, but I don't have a well-reasoned, thoughtful explanation like Harford. I like them mostly because of nostalgia. I grew up watching the D on television and since I saw "Star Trek: First Contact" before DS9 or "Star Trek: Generations", I was really surprised and thrilled when I set eyes on that sucker for the first time.

 

I thought they got spiffier new uniforms and a more badass-looking ship just to make the transition to the big screen feel more special. The friend I watched it with the first time thought so too, because when I asked him why the ship and uniforms were new, his theory was "I guess because they had a bigger budget".

 

I was a little bummed out that the class of starship that the E belonged to was embargoed/off-limits for DS9, which is why we never saw any of them in fleets for big battle scenes. I suppose the upside was that this made the E feel more unique. It's easy to imagine it's the only ship of its kind, since it's the only one we see (as opposed to TNG and DS9 fleets full of ships that look exactly like the D).

 

I have no particular attachment to the original Enterprise or the one in the first three Star Trek pictures (like so many Star Trek fans) since I didn't really watch the original series until about 5 years ago. However, I really admire the way it was used in "Star Trek III". I'm not a big fan of that picture in general, but one thing I have to respect it for is making the ship feel like such an important character. I would even go as far as calling it the best character in the whole thing! The two most exciting and emotionally affecting sequences are the hijacking and crash.

post #2820 of 4088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naisu Baddi View Post

I have no particular attachment to the original Enterprise or the one in the first three Star Trek pictures (like so many Star Trek fans) since I didn't really watch the original series until about 5 years ago. However, I really admire the way it was used in "Star Trek III". I'm not a big fan of that picture in general, but one thing I have to respect it for is making the ship feel like such an important character. I would even go as far as calling it the best character in the whole thing! The two most exciting and emotionally affecting sequences are the hijacking and crash.
Oh yeah, Kirk's Enterprise is very much it's own character. It's death in Trek 3 is almost as tough to take as Spocks in Trek 2. The hijacking scene is one of the best scenes in any incarnation of trek.

And back to the D. I understand they wanted a ship more suitable for the big screen. But I think taking it out like that was a mistake, they should have just re-fit it like they did for Kirks. Keep the same general design just make some tweaks. Although we did get the E out of it so its not all bad.
post #2821 of 4088
Thread Starter 
I like the crashing of the D just for that shot that pans across a wrecked bridge from Data to a Riker looking up at window that only showed stars now shines the sun on his face.
post #2822 of 4088
I just wanted to clarify that I think the Enterprise E is one of the coolest looking spaceships ever put to film, I just happen to perfer the D for sentimental, philosophical and esoteric design reasons. The E was well suited for the films it was used in. I feel sad that the D died but I think it went out to thunderous effect. The crash effects are still pretty stunning. I think it is the Enterprise E that got a raw deal with it's ignominious end in Nemisis.

And while I kind of dig what Roddenberry was going for with the 'exploring space from your well lit den' look on the bridge in TNG, I do prefer the lighting scheme used for the Generations film. That movie was beautifully photographed.
post #2823 of 4088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harford View Post

I just wanted to clarify that I think the Enterprise E is one of the coolest looking spaceships ever put to film, I just happen to perfer the D for sentimental, philosophical and esoteric design reasons. The E was well suited for the films it was used in. I feel sad that the D died but I think it went out to thunderous effect. The crash effects are still pretty stunning. I think it is the Enterprise E that got a raw deal with it's ignominious end in Nemisis.
And while I kind of dig what Roddenberry was going for with the 'exploring space from your well lit den' look on the bridge in TNG, I do prefer the lighting scheme used for the Generations film. That movie was beautifully photographed.
The E wasn't destroyed in Nemisis. It just got really jacked up.

And the Bridge of the D did look better in Generations because they made it look like a command center with the extra stations on the sides and the raised Captains chair.
post #2824 of 4088
Thread Starter 
The Enterprise-D sets really looked best not only thanks to Alonzo's but because the budget allowed it. Great example is hiring all those extras for the Ten Forward set gave it new life never seen in the series. All it needed was source music.
post #2825 of 4088

The A looks so regal in TWOK when it "clears all moorings" and leaves drydock (buoyed by Horner's score). Gimme A and E (hey!) and I'd be a happy little explorer. 

post #2826 of 4088

That's not the 'A', that's the original, refitted Enterprise. The 'A' (along with the whole concept of the amended designation numbers) isn't introduced until the end of Voyage Home. Also, the drydock footage is all stock from TMP, but I agree Horner's music somehow revitalizes it.

post #2827 of 4088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul755 View Post

The E wasn't destroyed in Nemisis. It just got really jacked up.
And the Bridge of the D did look better in Generations because they made it look like a command center with the extra stations on the sides and the raised Captains chair.

I hope you're right, but it looked pretty heavily damaged at the end of that film.

 

I didn't actually notice the extra command stations or elevated captain's chair. I always loved how the bridge was set up on TNG, so I don't know I'd necessarily endorse elevating the captain's chair being raised up over the others. I like that the captain is at the center of but not above the rest of the crew. Mostly I just love the lighting in that film, I think it really helps to show off the sets.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

The Enterprise-D sets really looked best not only thanks to Alonzo's but because the budget allowed it. Great example is hiring all those extras for the Ten Forward set gave it new life never seen in the series. All it needed was source music.

Good points!

 

And I wanted to post this because people frequently accuse the Enterprise D as being ill suited to widescreen photography, but instead I'd argue that it's massively wide saucer makes it a perfect match for the format. In fact on the show in nearly every close up of the ship, the full saucer cannot be seen because the sides are sliced off in 4:3.

This shot in particular demonstrates the unique cinematic qualities of the D. It has a striking profile and looks absolutely massive (click to enlarge):

 

post #2828 of 4088
Ok. The Emissary was awesome. I'm hooked on DS9.
post #2829 of 4088

Stellar Cartography was a really cool science lab, and it was a shame it only ever turned up in Generations.

post #2830 of 4088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

 

Enterprise C, F and G look like Ass.

 

The F and G are fan designs, I'm pretty sure.

post #2831 of 4088

<power of nerd...activate!>

 

With regards to the Enterprise D from TNG; it suffered from the same problem that occurs when photographing some cars/motorcycles/people(?)

Filmed at certain angles, it can look majestic/formidable....move a few degrees to the left/right up/down, it turns into a big fat beached whale.

 

The Enterprise E, IMO, got the 'balance' correct so that it can look good from almost all angles. The Aston Martin comparison is apt : )

 

Which leads me to...the JJ Enterprise. I really don't like the re-mixed version. The changes are subtle but it seems that the engines are too big in relation to the saucer.

It isn't as balanced as the original Enterprise or the 'A' version. 

And don't get me started on the whole 'built on earth' aspect...grrrrr.

 

post #2832 of 4088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harford View Post

I hope you're right, but it looked pretty heavily damaged at the end of that film.

 

I didn't actually notice the extra command stations or elevated captain's chair. I always loved how the bridge was set up on TNG, so I don't know I'd necessarily endorse elevating the captain's chair being raised up over the others. I like that the captain is at the center of but not above the rest of the crew. Mostly I just love the lighting in that film, I think it really helps to show off the sets.

 

Good points!

 

And I wanted to post this because people frequently accuse the Enterprise D as being ill suited to widescreen photography, but instead I'd argue that it's massively wide saucer makes it a perfect match for the format. In fact on the show in nearly every close up of the ship, the full saucer cannot be seen because the sides are sliced off in 4:3.

This shot in particular demonstrates the unique cinematic qualities of the D. It has a striking profile and looks absolutely massive (click to enlarge):

 

I thought it was pretty clear the E wasn't destroyed in Nemisis.

 

And they didn't just raise the captains chair, all three of the middle chairs got raised up. Which raises a whole different nitpick. Did they really need three chairs in the middle, the "center seat" should be by itself. Or atleast raise the center chair up a bit higher than the others like on the E.

 

Heres a pic from Generations

post #2833 of 4088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul755 View Post

I thought it was pretty clear the E wasn't destroyed in Nemisis.

 

And they didn't just raise the captains chair, all three of the middle chairs got raised up. Which raises a whole different nitpick. Did they really need three chairs in the middle, the "center seat" should be by itself. Or atleast raise the center chair up a bit higher than the others like on the E.

 

Heres a pic from Generations


I think the three central chairs are  so the captain can turn to his first officer and get his opinion, ETC. It shows that command of a Galaxy class starship is a collaborative effort. The captain wants his best people right there next to him. They definitely should not have raised those chairs though it looks a bit odd.

post #2834 of 4088
A great as DS9 was, it would have been truly perfect had Michelle Forbes agreed to reprise her role as Ensign Ro. Major Kira was a fine replacement, but Michelle Forbes is one of a kind and she would have been brilliant as a central, founding member of that cast.
post #2835 of 4088

Any word on why she turned the role down? A steady paycheck is hard to come by for most actors, and it's not like she shied away from genre properties.

post #2836 of 4088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

Any word on why she turned the role down? A steady paycheck is hard to come by for most actors, and it's not like she shied away from genre properties.

I have heard various things. I just read an interview she gave to a Trek fanzine 2 years after TNG ended. She said she didn't want to get locked into one role for 7 years. She had nice things to say about the people at Trek and on DS9, but she was talking about film projects she was involved with at that time, and so maybe she was making a shot at being more than a "tv star" (something she certainly deserved).

Alternatively I have heard grumblings that she didn't get on with the cast on TNG and that even on that show Ro was intended to be a larger more frequently recurring role but it didn't happen due to animosity. They wanted her back for DS9 but she told them to fuck themselves.

I don't know the truth of it. I do know that she now refuses to discuss Star Trek at all.

It's a shame because I'm watching Conumdrum right now and her chemistry with Riker is off the charts. I don't dislike Troi, but compared to Michelle Forbes, well... I think the show missed a chance to add a deeply charismatic actress to the cast. The fact fans are still talking about a character that appeared in a total of nine episodes speaks to the power of Michelle Forbes' work on TNG.
post #2837 of 4088

Dr. Harford, Not me.  Nana Visitor was a...Major Addition as Kira!  I would also Love to go...Back To School with Terry Farrell's Jadzia Dax!  I would also join her in a...Danger...Field!

post #2838 of 4088
I don't dislike Kira, I am fond of the character. I just like Ro more. Dax was great though, agreed.
post #2839 of 4088

I don't do wacky tee's but I just saw this over on teefury.com

seems apropos to the thread

 

post #2840 of 4088
Really cool article about the process of designing the Enterprise D: http://www.starshipdatalink.net/art/1701-d.html
Quote:
In previous designs the warp nacelles were always to the rear but above the saucer rim, which visually seemed to give them equal importance, and physically placed them above the ship's center of mass. Both of these seemed to be negative point, which I hoped to remedy by lowering them to a position between the two hull sections. This would place them closer to the ship's center of mass. Also, the struts holding the saucer and warp engines were slanted in opposite directions; the saucer is going forward, engines going back. That wasn't bad but it created a slight visual conflict, so I slanted them all forward to unify their direction and give the orverall design a feeling of aggressive forward movement, like a lunging cat. The view from the front of the old ship produced a variety of shapes. I took my design theme from the saucer and started sketching every component as a compressed oval.

He also talks about how the nacels were not supposed to extend beyond the rear of the ship, but Roddenberry upset his designs and made the nacels longer. I have to agree the original concept art looks sleeker. Roddenberry felt smaller engines would look under powered, but I think the ship maker is right that it looks more advanced when the ship has a uniform design scheme.
post #2841 of 4088
Thread Starter 
As much as I liked Ro, I'm glad we got Kira instead because her background makes her dynamic with Sisko much more interesting and played out. Having Ro would have played out totally different from Kira and I'm not sure for the better. At the most she would have played out the same as she did on TNG only with the addition of being torn between her people and being a Starfleet officer, something already done with Worf.

If anything, she should have been on VOYAGER with the Maquis side, like the writers first thought of for Ro before Forbes turned it down again and they turned the character into Torres.
post #2842 of 4088
post #2843 of 4088

Man, Avery Brooks' performance really comes alive once they let him grow his beard.

post #2844 of 4088

I just got the PADD app for iPad, and it's pretty fun to fiddle around with the LCARS interface. The information in the app leaves a lot to be desired though. Limited character bios and tech descriptions. Photos of the ships are all horrifically low rez. Worst of all the episode guide is one gigantic list of every episode from every Star Trek show presented in alphabetical order by episode title. Good luck reading up on a specific season of a show or navigating around easily.

 

$4.99 is a little bit pricey for what you really get, but if you're a TNG or LCARS enthusiast there are worse ways to spend your money.

 

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/star-trek-padd/id446277240?mt=8

 

post #2845 of 4088

I was just thinking of an alternate timeline: what if Anthony Hopkins were cast as Picard?

 

Stewart and Picard were in similar places in their careers in 1987, and it's conceivable Hopkins (a depressive drunk at the time) would have wanted the steady paycheck and exposure. I think it's a fun 'what if' scenario to consider. In this timeline, Hopkins would still get offered Silence of the Lambs due to his increased exposure on TNG, and then the show would continue for a fifth and final season in 1992. Then Hopkins' career would continue on as in our timeline, except he'd make a few TNG movies over the years too.

 

I love Stewart and his work as Picard, but I think Hopkins as the captain of the Eneterprise is an intriguing notion.

post #2846 of 4088

"A Vulcan once tried to test me. I ate his tribble with some plomeek soup and a nice Saurian Brandy....fffttt fffttt ffttt ffttt....."

 

<rest of the bridge crew takes a step back from Picard>

post #2847 of 4088

It's hard for me to picture Hopkins as Picard, or Hopkins playing Lector if he'd landed the TNG gig.

post #2848 of 4088

Now I'm imagining Stewart as Lector. And I think I would like to be able to have seen that movie.

post #2849 of 4088

Ha, yeah, I mean, Stewart IS Picard, he defined the role and I wouldn't trade him away, but I can imagine the alternate universe Hopkins making the "engage" hand gestures, and generally getting into the swing of things. It would be a different, that's for sure.

 

I'd love to see Hopkins deliver this monologue, or even just see 80s Hopkins turn up in a Star Fleet uniform:

 

Quote:
"Your honor, the courtroom is a crucible; in it, we burn away irrelevancies until we are left with a purer product: the truth, for all time. Now sooner or later, this man [Commander Maddox] - or others like him - will succeed in replicating Commander Data. The decision you reach here today will determine how we will regard this creation of our genius. It will reveal the kind of people we are; what he is destined to be. It will reach far beyond this courtroom and this one android. It could significantly redefine the boundaries of personal liberty and freedom: expanding them for some, savagely curtailing them for others. Are you prepared to condemn him [Commander Data] - and all who will come after him - to servitude and slavery? Your honor, Starfleet was founded to seek out new life: well, there it sits! Waiting."
post #2850 of 4088

See if Picard had been Commander of the Galactica BSG would never have happened!rolleyes.gif

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