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The Star Trek Thread - Page 102

post #5051 of 5573
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhp1608 View Post

So, I'm not even going to try to compete with the informed reviews of Trek series I'm seeing here, but I'm a little but further along in my first encounter with the series and I just wanted to say...

Wow...the season three double header opener is a storming 90 minutes of TV. Bloody Changelings...and yet, and yet.

You could sum up DS9 like this.

"Last time on DEEP SPACE NINE"





"Shit just got real."


"And now the conclusion."



"Shit just got real."
post #5052 of 5573
Seeing the Odyssey get destroyed was one of the true holy shit moments in the whole TNG/DS9 era.
post #5053 of 5573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

And Spock mentions that Saavik is half Romulan and there's a brief moment at the end that hints at a possible romance between her and David.


I'm fairly sure that the Romulan moment is not in DC- but has been available via DVD extras for a while.  There's also a moment suggesting a romantic connection between Savik and David that was cut.

 

Here's a great vid that walks thru the changes-

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_s4ULn4yw8


Edited by 11thIndian - 8/4/16 at 6:14am
post #5054 of 5573
Thread Starter 
Right. I've only seen those clips on YouTube, I don't remember it actually being on special features.

Would have loved to see that lost footage of the "Memory Wall" sequence from THE MOTION PICTURE. It sounds like it would have been more exciting than Spock talking to himself against a bluescreen.
post #5055 of 5573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

Would have loved to see that lost footage of the "Memory Wall" sequence from THE MOTION PICTURE. It sounds like it would have been more exciting than Spock talking to himself against a bluescreen.

 

Judging by the test footage on the Director's Edition disc, it would have looked like an outtake from Fantastic Voyage.

post #5056 of 5573
It's be a while since I saw it, but wasn't a romantic relationship between Saavik and David heavily implied in ST3?
post #5057 of 5573
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhp1608 View Post

It's be a while since I saw it, but wasn't a romantic relationship between Saavik and David heavily implied in ST3?

I don't remember that, but it somehow makes the prospect of David watching Saavik walk the resurrected Spock through his first pon farr a little hotter.
post #5058 of 5573
Haha...Yes, yes it does.
post #5059 of 5573
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhp1608 View Post

It's be a while since I saw it, but wasn't a romantic relationship between Saavik and David heavily implied in ST3?

Not really, which is why I thought the deleted clip was so surprising the first time I saw it because I had never heard of it before and III never even hinted at the possibility. It was one of those what ifs
post #5060 of 5573

It's not really explained why Saavik would be assigned to the Genesis expedition, is it? She was training for Command, not Sciences, in Khan.

post #5061 of 5573


You could make the argument that she was assigned because she already knew about Genesis, and they wanted to keep that pool as small as possible.  But I agree, she wasn't a planetary scientist, so there were probably better people to assign.

post #5062 of 5573
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11thIndian View Post


You could make the argument that she was assigned because she already knew about Genesis, and they wanted to keep that pool as small as possible.  But I agree, she wasn't a planetary scientist, so there were probably better people to assign.
Plus wasnt she still a cadet at that point? I did get the impression that they were setting up something between David/Saavik.

Back to the DS9 stuff above. It got me watching YouTube clips from the Dominion War...really makes me wish that Insurrection was an "Enterprise at war" movie. Those type battles on the big screen could have been something else. But I get it, they didn't want to mix it up.
post #5063 of 5573
Thread Starter 
Saavik was a lieutenant junior grade training for command with cadets, not actually a cadet herself. Note that she's wearing an officer's uniform instead of the onesies with pouches the cadets wore.

I do appreciate that INSURRECTION at least tied itself to the Dominion War in a way that they wouldn't interfere with DS9's story. Picard is out making first contact with new species because the Federation is desperate for allies and the planet with its fountain of youth with its healing properties could be useful at a time of war.
post #5064 of 5573
I thought she was a cadet that just hadn't graduated yet but was close enough that she'd been assigned rank, etc...Taking the Kobayashi Maru was one of the last things she had to check off. But either way...it's not important.

And I appreciate the small way they tied it to the war. But from a nitpicky standpoint the flagship should have been out leading the fight, not on diplomatic runs. Even if it's not a big battle extravaganza, put Picard, Data and Troi on a "behind the enemy lines" rescue type mission. Maybe to get someone important off Betazed when it became occupied. I dunno, seems like a wasted opportunity to me. But again, I understand why.
post #5065 of 5573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

And Spock mentions that Saavik is half Romulan and there's a brief moment at the end that hints at a possible romance between her and David.


Not sure if it got mentioned since you posted (have been very busy in last week), but these bits were only on the ShoWest preview reel in early 82, never on any licensed DVD or Blu-Ray or VHS.

 

Meyer has said he didn't care about the half-Rom thing, even though for me it is the only way to justify Alley's allovertheplace emotionalism and nervousness (prepareforwarpspeed) ... Nimoy retconned the character as straight Vulcen in SFS, which did the character a disservice and gave Robin Curtis some wholly unnplayable scenes (Admiral, David is dead.)

 

If you've ever read Bennett's original treatment for III, the rom aspect was still a part of the character, as she actually sleeps with Kirk in it (and not out of any pon-farr necessity.)

post #5066 of 5573
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhp1608 View Post

It's be a while since I saw it, but wasn't a romantic relationship between Saavik and David heavily implied in ST3?


Only in the novelization, which invented all sorts of interesting shit, both in support of and at odds with the actual film. McIntyre really brought it for this one, but I think she had thrown up her hands by TVH.

post #5067 of 5573
Thread Starter 
Never said those clips were on home video releases. The only time I ever saw those clips were on YouTube.
post #5068 of 5573

Following CBS/Paramount's crackdown on fan productions, this is how New Voyages/Phase II lands on its feet:

 

http://startrektour.com/

post #5069 of 5573
Has anyone ever actually tried to play TREK's tri-dimensional chess?
post #5070 of 5573
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmart View Post
 


Only in the novelization, which invented all sorts of interesting shit, both in support of and at odds with the actual film. McIntyre really brought it for this one, but I think she had thrown up her hands by TVH.


Yeah, I remember reading the novelization and getting to the part where David and Saavik sleep together and going:  "I REALLY don't remember this being in the movie." (Bearing in mind I was in like...7th or 8th grade by the time I read the novelization).

post #5071 of 5573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmacq1 View Post


Yeah, I remember reading the novelization and getting to the part where David and Saavik sleep together and going:  "I REALLY don't remember this being in the movie." (Bearing in mind I was in like...7th or 8th grade by the time I read the novelization).

You're all making me want to watch SFS again. Then TVH!

Huzzah. Thursday night. In. The. Bag.
post #5072 of 5573
Thread Starter 
"Let's go to the Genesis planet and search for Spock! How long will it take?"

"Not too long, we've only got a few feet of soundstage space to cover."
post #5073 of 5573
Haha. Watching it now.

I do like the continuation, bubbling under the surface, of TWOK's "you're only as old as you feel" theme, particularly in the Enterprise theft. Bit of meta maybe as well, as these old timers show the youngsters a thing or two.

But...what WAS Chekhov wearing??



Gods, the Enterprise refit and the Starbase are fabulous designs.
Edited by jhp1608 - 8/11/16 at 3:29pm
post #5074 of 5573
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhp1608 View Post

Haha. Watching it now.

I do like the continuation, bubbling under the surface, of TWOK's "you're only as old as you feel" theme, particularly in the Enterprise theft. Bit of meta maybe as well, as these old timers show the youngsters a thing or two.

But...what WAS Chekhov wearing??



Gods, the Enterprise refit and the Starbase are fabulous designs.

The Refit will have my heart forever.

post #5075 of 5573
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhp1608 View Post

Haha. Watching it now.

I do like the continuation, bubbling under the surface, of TWOK's "you're only as old as you feel" theme, particularly in the Enterprise theft. Bit of meta maybe as well, as these old timers show the youngsters a thing or two.

But...what WAS Chekhov wearing??



Gods, the Enterprise refit and the Starbase are fabulous designs.

 

 

Star Trek III isn't a great movie, but it does have several GREAT scenes, which puts it above much of the mediocrity that followed VOYAGE HOME.

 

I agree about Chekov, but let's be honest- this was shot in 1983, it's ASTOUNDING that only one of them looks ridiculous.

post #5076 of 5573

I have a form of colorblindness.  It wasn't until the past year or so that I heard Chekov was wearing pink in part III.  

 

I'd like to return to the more innocent time when I didn't know that.  

post #5077 of 5573

On the plus side, I love Sulu's robe and leather cape.  

post #5078 of 5573
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlenomad View Post
 

I have a form of colorblindness.  It wasn't until the past year or so that I heard Chekov was wearing pink in part III.  

 

I'd like to return to the more innocent time when I didn't know that.  

 

It's not just the pink, it's the collar and the sense that he might be wearing matching shorts and long socks like some kind of camp Alpine Tweedledum.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Olmos View Post


The Refit will have my heart forever.

 

Yep.

 

 

post #5079 of 5573
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhp1608 View Post

It's not just the pink, it's the collar and the sense that he might be wearing matching shorts and long socks like some kind of camp Alpine Tweedledum.



Yep.






It happens that I was just watching "Search for Spock", and was reflecting during this very sequence that the Enterprise from the early features is as good as any Trek ship ever got. Accept no substitutes.

Anyway, SFS isn't a stitch on WOK but still pretty enjoyable-- I hadn't seen it in twenty years, whereas I watch WOK a couple times every year. Kinda cheap looking, and I could never buy Reverend Jim as a scary Klingon villain, but still, decent Trek. Line of the movie belongs to McCoy: "That green-blooded son of a bitch is getting even with me for all the arguments he lost!"

I've been watching the features (I even sat through TMP for the first time in ages) on Amazon, and would have rolled straight into "Voyage Home", but it wasn't included with Prime, so I watched "Undiscovered Country" instead. Still really good...

Something I meant to mention when the Shatner/"Sabataage" thing came up in the "Beyond" thread: in "Undiscovered Country" they have Valeris explain the origin of the word "sabotage" and she really hits the (correct) pronunciation hard. I don't know if that Shatner audio was a thing back then, but I wonder if that was a dig at the Shat, in a movie he was actually starring in. Either way, pretty funny.
post #5080 of 5573
Thread Starter 
I never got the implication that there was any reference to Shatner's "sabatage" thing on either TUC or the use of Beastie Boys. The latter is only because Abrams is a Beastie fanboy, even STID had another Beastie tune playing. I think many were just drawing up their own conclusions regarding "sabatage".
post #5081 of 5573

Stuff I think about in the shower:

In "Star Trek: Beyond," Kirk really sets Jaylah up for failure by 'pulling some strings' to get her into Star Fleet Academy.

 

She's been living a quasi-feral life some godforsaken planet for the past however many years.  Sure, she'll make the Varsity Hand-to-Hand Team, but is she ready for Calc 101?  Freshman English Composition?  Intro Chemistry?  

 

If Kirk really wanted to hook her up, he'd have gotten her into Star Fleet Prep.  Way to go, jackass.

post #5082 of 5573

Yeah but she served as crew on some sort of Starship that Ildris Elba captured, so it's not like she's a Alien Female Tarzan.

post #5083 of 5573

The History Channel has a 2-hour special tonight for the show's 50th. They're hyping it as containing the last "full-length" interview of Nimoy.

 

For what it's worth a little later after that airs they're gonna run an American Pickers where they rummage through Shatner's crib. 

post #5084 of 5573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

Yeah but she served as crew on some sort of Starship that Ildris Elba captured, so it's not like she's a Alien Female Tarzan.

It was her parents' ship, as I recall. It's a big leap from Ready Hand to Academy plebe.
post #5085 of 5573
Thread Starter 
I roll with it.
post #5086 of 5573

This is the same universe where Kirk goes from Stowaway Suspended Cadet to Starship Captain in a couple of days (was it even that long?), so yeah, roll with it man. 

post #5087 of 5573
Thread Starter 
Ohhhhhhh I still don't roll with that, but it makes Jaylah's chances seem more plausible. At least if she appears again she better still be a cadet.
post #5088 of 5573

Much of Beyond has evaporated, but wasn't she responsible for having jury-rigged the cloaking devices around the Franklin and getting it started/keeping it going? That's not just a cabin boy result. 

post #5089 of 5573

Listen, Chris Elliot has struggled to make a career, but he could have done something given the chance, so lets not denigrate cabin boys.

 

post #5090 of 5573

post #5091 of 5573

Of course, the greatest cabin boy of them all...

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 100

post #5092 of 5573
Watching "Generations" for the first time in a while as I preview the Trek movies for showing the kids...and it has a lot of really good qualities. It manages to be a Trek-style story - heaven as a scientific phenomenon, the ethics of short cuts to utopia, the challenges of mortality - and does so cinematically without compromising itself into a straightforward action film like First Contact. It doesn't rely on Khan-lite, sets up the drama nicely, and has some properly cool bits like the opening rescue, star map and the crash landing. Shot reasonably too.

Years after I fell asleep in the cinema on my first rewatch, I find myself coming to the conclusion that this might well be my favourite of all the Next Generation films (not that it has a lot of competition).

Today. It really is a floater.
Edited by jhp1608 - 8/20/16 at 7:45am
post #5093 of 5573
Leave out all the stuff with Kirk and the gaping plot hole of Picard picking close to the worst time possible to go back to. And it likely would be the best TNG film.
post #5094 of 5573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul755 View Post

Leave out all the stuff with Kirk and the gaping plot hole of Picard picking close to the worst time possible to go back to. And it likely would be the best TNG film.

Narrative contrivances to make the themes work...is ur-Trek. The Kirk stuff is fine. He's the Obi Wan and I think it works in the moment.

Plus the Star Chart scene is as good a bit of dialogue exposition as you can write.
post #5095 of 5573
I'm mostly seeing this through the eyes of a father previewing films for young children. I think Generations offers a very good entry into who Kirk is for someone not versed in Trek lore and too young to get revenge and obscelescence as dramatic ideas. Plus Data's struggle with emotion, albeit simplistic, is packaged in a way children can understand.
post #5096 of 5573
Thread Starter 
GENERATIONS really is the purest TNG film in the sense that it truly represents what the show was in its heyday but in a more cinematic fashion. INSURRECTION comes close with the Picard speeches and moral dilemma, though it really becomes an tacky action film in the second half. FIRST CONTACT really should have been just an exception rather than becoming the rule for the following films.

Still, the feature length "All Good Things..." makes the most grand in scale for any of these features, whether made for TV or cinema, it feels big. Heck, if they didn't do that story already for the show, it would have been the perfect final film for that crew. Their final mission, and we get to hop back and forth through time (though trying to have them play their younger pilot selves in 2002 would have been troublesome).
post #5097 of 5573
So now I'm experiencing Nemesis. I skipped FC and Insurrection because I reckon I know them well enough.

Nemesis is blocked like a video game, scripted like a video game and climaxes like a video game. It's not bad, per second, but it's not a film in the aggregated sense of the word.

What an odd experience.

I've not watched much TNG. Can I skip to "All Good Things"? The last episode I saw and remember was the one where the Enterprise comes back in and rip in time and Tasha Yar is resurrected. I liked that one.
post #5098 of 5573
Too late. I'm now watching "All Good Things...". I've no idea what is about to happen.
post #5099 of 5573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moltisanti View Post

The History Channel has a 2-hour special tonight for the show's 50th. They're hyping it as containing the last "full-length" interview of Nimoy.

For what it's worth a little later after that airs they're gonna run an American Pickers where they rummage through Shatner's crib. 

Just finished this documentary. It's...not great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhp1608 View Post

So now I'm experiencing Nemesis. I skipped FC and Insurrection because I reckon I know them well enough.

Nemesis is blocked like a video game, scripted like a video game and climaxes like a video game. It's not bad, per second, but it's not a film in the aggregated sense of the word.

What an odd experience.

I've not watched much TNG. Can I skip to "All Good Things"? The last episode I saw and remember was the one where the Enterprise comes back in and rip in time and Tasha Yar is resurrected. I liked that one.
Your thinking of "Yesterday's Enterprise". Although, "All Good Things" does resurrect Tasha (sorta) and deal with time travel.
post #5100 of 5573

I've just finished the DS9 episode "The Begotten."  Rene Auberjonois delivers a master class in acting opposite a liter of goop.  I mean, it really is magnificent.  Add a little Odo/Quark comedy and a nice parable about the nature of fatherhood, and you have my vote for best episode of the series so far.

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