The Star Trek Thread - Page 12

Hey, to be fair, compared to Kirk Scotty looked like one of the whales. Not exactly tiptop physical shape.

Some of the fondest memories I have of Star Trek from my childhood were from Voyage Home. I lived half an hour away from any kind of video store but a friend's dad owned Voyage Home and I borrowed it all the time. My grandparents in California took my family to the Monterey Bay Aquarium whenever we were there and I used to think it was so cool that I had been somewhere where they'd shot a Star Trek movie.

You give Scotty too much credit! That was more of an awkward belly flop. Chekov was inches away from another bout with brain swelling.

Well, I sure Takei had no idea how to act like he was turned on by a woman?

Sorry.

Actually, I'm sure I wasn't the only one to sport that sig over the years, so I can't be sure that it was my fault. But I'd like to think it was.
Yeah, I think that was the point. Thanks for texting the subtext, though. The retarded kids might have missed the punchline.

Luscious, is that the episode I asked about earlier where the Doctor (or is it an echo) is activated 500 years after Voyager left and has to clear up the aliens' miscnception of the crew as sadists (Mulgrew in tight leather) ?

Fixed that for you.

Either way I still think it ruined it. Even Behr said that he toyed with the idea of making the entire run of DS9 Benny's work. I'm glad he didn't but Stars and Symbols was unnecessary to an extent and felt like someone higher up freaked out by the notion of the entire Star Trek universe the idea of a black 50's Sci-Fi author. It was a retcon plain and simple.

As Devin has noted in his series, it's far more disturbing to see McCoy express any kind of sexuality.

One of these days, David, when you least expect it, I'm going to teach you a word in Klingon. It'll be a simple word. Short. Impossible to forget.

My first post from The Duke! Great to hear from you, Fleed, but where the hell are your trademark ellipses? It just doesn't seem like a real Duke Fleed post without 'em.

Yeah, I was around the same age when I read it. Actually, I took my first date ever to see STAR TREK III opening night in Houston.

I really envy you, Bancroft. Like you, my father was distant and into sports. Unklike you, I wasn't into sports at all. I was always into genre films and television but my dad wasn't. Yeah, I took he and my Mom to see STAR WARS in the theater (after I'd already seen it ) but that was about it. The closest acknowledgement he ever made of my interest was when he brought back a cardboard tube for me on one of his business trips. I was 13 and remember opening the tube and being shocked at the content. It was a cutaway wall poster of the Enterprise from ST:TMP done by artist Richard Kimble (which I'd bet my life that Litmus, Phil or other chewers have).

While I'll always remember that gift, for me having a dad that was into any type of sci-fi, much less ST, is the equivalent of your average married guy reading Hugh Hefner's bio: while it's real and exists for one person, it's so outrageous that it's hard to picture yourself in that situation.

I was going to bring up "Far Beyond The Stars" in a later post. I was into DS9 long before that aired. Being not only the same nationality as Benny, but also having faced the same situations as a genre writer/filmmaker, at times it felt that the episode was ripped right out of my head. The fact that it was written by people who didn't come from that background just emphasizes what wonderful writers Zicree, Behr, Piller, etc. are.

(And sorry, Fritz Chrome and PMR, but as good as B5 sometimes was, it never had an eisode that could touch "Far Beyond the Stars", Harlan Ellison or no Harlan Ellison.)

As for "Shadows and Symbols", is that the follow up where Sisko finds the orb on Bajor? I remember there being a sequen to "Far" but I'll have to check Memory Alpha or watch the episode again to answer your question. Now that the prices have come down on the DS9 Season Sets, I may not wait for the entire run boxed set that I thought they might release.

Your preferred Saavik - Kirstie Alley or Robin Curtis?

Kreeper, After initially retiring my use of ellipsis, more people have asked about them than not, So they will...Return.

FilmNerdJamie, I prefer Kirstie Alley as...Saavik.

Funny how Meyer and Bennett were obviously setting shit up for David and Saavik as "the next generation" of the Enterprise (for lack of a better term) only to have that thrown out by the next film.

Kirstie Alley - best Saavik. Robin Curtis has sweet FA to do in III, and is a complete vacuum. Nature abhors Robin Curtis. Kim Cattrall was way better.

Kreeper - yes. Yes I did.

Imagining those two as leads in the further adventures of The Enterprise makes me very angry.

MERRITT BUTRICK STARRING IN

STAR TREK - WHATEVER.

The series had a couple of clunkers, to be sure, but it would have been a catastrophe had this happened. Do you think they were seriously considering it? With the old crew taking a more back seat, mentor role? Considering where the series actually went, I find it hard to believe they ever entertained the thought of "replacing" the classic crew with these new characters.

Kirk was sad when David died... WHY?!? David was a disappointing son to say the least, he was a total dud. I'm sure if he had lived on he would have enjoyed a great career in starfleet gardening or tailoring.

As viewers, we spent more time with David than Kirk ever did. He couldn't have known. He was mourning his "life that could have been". But the sweater should have told him something.

That was absolutely the plan. They were going to spin those characters into a new tv series. In 1982, they didn't think they'd be able to churn out ten movies and three tv spin-offs.

The first movie was also full of leftover crap from a proposed new series.

He was still Kirk's son though. In fact Kirks reaction on the Bridge when Saavik told him David was dead was pretty great.

Kirk deserved a son that was a bit more of an action hero, in my opinion. David, as he was portrayed in the films by Merritt Butrick, was too much of a wimp. I have to think that Kirk would have secretly been very disappointed in the fact that his son wasn't the type that would ever take a green-skinned dancing girl to bed, much less command a starship.

I posted it a few pages ago... But why not reiterate? It's probably my favorite bit of Shatnerian overacting. There's a poetry to his grief rap.

I think I like it even more than the immortal "Khan!" war cry.

What makes it even more delicious is Christopher Lloyd's almost immediate douchebag response:

Star Trek III doesn't get enough love in my opinion. Too overshadowed by Khan. But I like it a lot.

ST3 is second ONLY to ST2, in my opinion. I still say that the emotional impact of the crew watching the remains of the Enterprise burn through the atmosphere is stronger than Spock's death scene.

Damn right!

Erix, Judas Booth, Star Trek III is my...2nd favorite film in the franchise after ST II Wrath Of Khan.

The best moment in III is Kirk yelling at Kruge "You fool, look around you! The planet's destroying itself!" and Kruge calmly responding, 'Yes, exhilarating, isn't it?"

Also love John Larroquette as the Klingon who does not deserve to live.

Target...Engine...Only.

Also furthers the point of how smart Nick Meyer was. He was ready and willing to come back, but wanted nothing to do with the "resurrection" of Spock.

Is there even a question?

Didn't Meyer do some uncredited writing on III? I forget what parts.

"I'll kill you later..." *motions for him to be taken away*

And Kruge is just a great douchebag all around.

God, what a fucking asshole!

Didn't know that Meyer did rewrites on III.

Credit must be given to ST3 for the Klingon re-boot. Sure, they appeared in ST1, but they only appeared in the first battle and didn't really have a chance to develop any characterization.

Giving Christopher Lloyd (and the others) free reign to play the Klingons in that manner was a pretty gutsy choice. They could have been played as pure warriors, uncompromising in their menace, but instead they were portrayed with a certain degree of humor that could have come off VERY poorly. Lloyd was perfect for this, and he really deserves alot of credit for how Klingons were portrayed in the movies, TNG, and DS9.

Not to mention, Kirk & Co. giving the Federation the finger by stealing the Enterprise and what not.

And then...

"You said you would kill me!"
"I lied."

I find it interesting that, while stranded on Vulcan between ST3 and ST4, the entire crew has the time to completely redesign the bridge of the Klingon Bird of Prey.

Now you're getting carried away. Crossposting/paraphrasing myself from the recent weekend discussion thread - I liked Star Trek III and IV enough, but both were clumsily backing into decisions to restore a status quo (resurrect Spock, kill off David, here's a new Enterprise, off you go). They pale next to what Meyer and Bennett were doing in TWOK.

You're talking about the films as a whole; I'm talking about individual moments. I won't deny that ST2 is a better film or that ST3 and 4 do exactly what you claim (restore the status quo), but the entire sequence involving the destruction of the Enterprise brought tears my eyes back in the theater. It genuinely hit me hard.

The entire "stealing the Enterprise" scenes from Kirk and Sulu busting out McCoy to the break down of Excelsior is among my favorite parts of the entire series. It's just so perfect.

Not when you say "III is second ONLY to II", you're not. (For me it's VI, but both are a distant, distant second if we're being realistic over nostalgic.)

Me too, but I was 13. When I rewatch them today, III falls far short. There are a couple throat-lumpifying moments, though, sure. Sarek's mind meld with Kirk is a favorite.

Sorry, disregard. I was remembering wrong. Just dug up an interview where Meyer says he had nothing to do with III.

If only it didn't end with the Excelsior breaking down like a '57 Chevy. The sound effects of the engines revving down kinda killed the effect of the scene.

It kept them occupied while Spock got upgraded or went through his rite of passage or whatever the fuck his mother makes him do in that space between the last scene of III and the opening of IV.

I imagine a substantial amount of time has passed. Like, say, a day or two. Gives them plenty of time. Kirk didn't want to pilot the same bridge of the Klingon bastard who killed his disappointing son.

Weird question: Has anyone ever tried to watch II, III and IV straight through like one big epic?

It's weird because it starts off with a very dramatic first act, an action packed second act and suddenly, abruptly goes into pure comedy. I tried it once and it's an odd experience.

Cinefantastique published an issue all about the 'Genesis Trilogy' back in the day. And Berkeley's late lamented UC Theatre periodically programmed the films as a triple feature.

The cheap and goofy bits undercut the essence of III - Kirk throwing away everything for the chance to save his friend (and that idea itself undercuts every interesting theme from the previous film).

McCoy's space racism is front and center in III. "How can you be deaf with ears like that??" I hate that cantina rip-off scene.

In fact, the various scenes of the crew each committing treason individually is fun (especially Uhura locking the kid from Joysticks in the space closet), but it all feels a little like contractual obligation (note the gimmick is repeated in IV and V), something TWOK didn't seem to find necessary. And much of the movie is hamstrung by that shitty Genesis planet set.

You can Paul McCartnify that shit all you want and have a big ol' lulz over it, but it's quite a let down after the opera of TWOK, which was goofy but balanced.

It's also fun to watch Uhura's hairstyle change between movies. ST3 takes place immediately after ST2, and yet Uhura has a stylin' new hairdo to show off. In fact, I doubt that that hairdo would have survived the humidity on the Genesis planet.

Fuck it, she looked pretty damn HOT in ST3.

"Remember." If that line of Spock's hadn't been added, where does everyone see the series heading after TWOK? Should there have even been any more sequels? I like the characters enough that I can find good things in all of the TOS films, but that doesn't mean that TWOK wasn't a hell of capper to the tv series and probably should have been left as such. But that's a franchise for ya.

And Scotty needs time to put on about sixty pounds.

Something that bugs me about the crew's "exile": Vulcan is a founding member of the Federation. Why wouldn't Kirk & co be arrested, or extradited? Does Ambassador Sarek have that much pull?

For the record, "Remember" and the attendant mind-meld gesture are in all versions of Khan. Maybe I'm just old and fat but I can't think of any better follow-up than the developments laid out in Search. A stand-alone adventure, just with no Spock this time around? Unlikely.

I've always enjoyed Kirk's self-destruct password. I think it went something like this:

"Zero... zero... zero... DESTRUCT! ...zero..."