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The Star Trek Thread - Page 114

post #5651 of 5790
Thread Starter 
Statute Regulating is pretty good light reading.
post #5652 of 5790
David's death in Search for Spock was very well done in my opinion. It was pretty raw. Shatner's acting surprised me greatly. Him missing the chair whether intentional or not helped sell the moment. This movie more than any other Trek film sells how deeply Kirk and Spock feel for each other. He loses his ship, intends to lose his career if need be, loses his son...for Spock. And doesn't regret any of it. And McCoy softening due to the circumstances was done well. Search for Spock is a great great film and I think it's insulting to lump it into the even good/odd bad Trek film thing. That's bullshit. It's just flat out great..
post #5653 of 5790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

If you loop in the first film, it's actually a loose quadrilogy in which Spock finally comes to grips with his human heritage. He goes from being ready to all but purge it in TMP to embracing it by the end of Voyage Home. In a sense, he had to die to rid himself of the years of baggage that told him that part of himself was flawed; he needed a blank slate on which he could merge his human and Vulcan natures. That's why his final exchange with Sarek in Voyage Home is so great; there he is with his closest personal embodiment of all things Vulcan, the person who opposed him joining Starfleet, and Spock is unabashedly human. Him saying simply "They are my friends" when Sarek rather dispassionately describes them as people "of good character" is one of my favorite moments in all of Trek.

 

Also, after a bit of Standard Issue Spock in Final Frontier, Undiscovered Country finds him more in touch with his human side than ever-- displaying a Chagall in his quarters, citing Sherlock Holmes as an "ancestor." I love too that he references his resurrection: "I've been dead before..."

post #5654 of 5790
For the fun of it, I looked up the budgets for Star Trek V and VI, and they're about the same. That's insane, considering the quantum jump between the two in production value and look.
post #5655 of 5790
V had a lot of location shooting. VI was mostly done on soundstages.
post #5656 of 5790
Thread Starter 
Right. Shatner's insistence on shooting on location at places like Yosemite really ate up the budget, thus he couldn't later afford to have an army of rock monsters for Kirk to fight.

This is probably part of why he didn't get a lot of directing gigs right after.
post #5657 of 5790

Hmm, I've got Bill Shatner's memoirs book around here somewhere. I will read that next, right after I finish the original Dune.

I've never read the original Dune, but I've read 1/3rd of the prequel books his son co-authored & I owned the movie on 4 different formats & have seen the Sci-Fi serials as well.

post #5658 of 5790

The world's best movie was released 35 years ago today.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
 

 

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post #5659 of 5790
This has always been one of my favorite shots.

twokhd0079.jpg
post #5660 of 5790

As acclaimed as it is, I don't think Nicholas Meyer will ever get enough credit for what he was able to do with TWOK.  It's amazing and somewhat disappointing that after 35 years, STAR TREK (the movie's especially) is still chasing this film's strength of narrative, character, and visuals.

 

There still has never been better conceived or executed starship combat.

post #5661 of 5790

I play a lot of Star Wars games with Star Wars geeks, but I know almost nothing about that universe. I am, have been, and always will be a man of Trek.  So it amazes me that Trek cannot seem to get past Wrath of Khan. Two films across two different "eras" have aped the parts that seemed to work without understanding why they worked. Nemesis took the "Khan as a Kirk who went bad saving his people" in the worst way possible by making an actual clone of Picard, and then doubled down by having another clone of Data and Ron Perlman earworming Marina Sirtis. NuTrek's Into Darkness essentially tried to blend TWoK and Undiscovered Country only to blend the worst parts of it, and then committing the worse crime of having Nimoy come in and explain the plot to the characters. 

 

When you look at the two post TOS era films, I cannot seem to figure out why the powers in charge of Trek seem to abandon Trek only to want to completely fall back into TWOK Trek. Its almost M. Night Shaymalan levels of twist.

 

Plot Summary of Insurrection: This alien species is being forecefully removed from their homelands Except TWIST a Rogue Admiral wants their fountain of youth but wait TWIST the subjugators are the specie's children, but you really like scenes of ships fighting in Nebulas, so TWIST we have that as well

 

Plot Summary of Nemesis: The Romulans are getting fiesty EXCEPT TWIST It is actually not and here is a Picard Clone, but wait TWIST we are homaging TWOK at the same time, but you also demanded more action so here is a dune buggy and Star Wars like small craft fighters. 

 

Plot Summary of Into Darkness: Terrorists attack the Federation EXCEPT Twist Carol Marcus's clothes keep being removed, oh and her father is a Rogue Admiral who is sponsoring the terror and TWIST wanted to launch torpedoes filled with augmented humans at the Klingon Homeworld but TWIST none of it matters a good damn because New Spock is going to telephone Old Spock and confirm everything we knew BEFORE the movie premiered TWIST Benedict Cumberbatch was Khan the entire time but TWIST we are going to do the death in reverse!

 

Plot Summary of Beyond: Goddamn Greg Grunberg can't get his ass out of a chair or into a Starfleet uniform that doesn't look heavily modified to fight a threat to his starbase. Oh, yeah, an old 2200s Starfleet captain gets marooned on a planet and has to compromise his morals (TWIST Like KHAN!) and our heroic captain must stop him and his three lieutenants whose background we only get at the very end after we killed them all except TWIST Kirk gets to hell's heart stab at the drones destroying them all.  Then, because someone remembered this was the 3rd NuTrek and we needed to rebuild the Enterprise because that is what heppens at the end of the 3rd TOS film we get a quick and dirty montage of the building of 1701A. 

 

Pictured Below: Greg Grunberg pulls a Riker in Insurrection and shaves off his beard to entice the ladies while he captains his starbase. 

 

Please excuse my rant. I have way too much free time today at work, and my Wars friends have given me lots of grief about Star Trek Destiny's trailer and how Star Trek Attack Wing sucks as a game.  I, too, have been genetically designed to sense death Star Trek Destiny, and I sense it is coming to your series. 

post #5662 of 5790
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTyres View Post
 

I play a lot of Star Wars games with Star Wars geeks, but I know almost nothing about that universe. I am, have been, and always will be a man of Trek.  So it amazes me that Trek cannot seem to get past Wrath of Khan. Two films across two different "eras" have aped the parts that seemed to work without understanding why they worked. Nemesis took the "Khan as a Kirk who went bad saving his people" in the worst way possible by making an actual clone of Picard, and then doubled down by having another clone of Data and Ron Perlman earworming Marina Sirtis. NuTrek's Into Darkness essentially tried to blend TWoK and Undiscovered Country only to blend the worst parts of it, and then committing the worse crime of having Nimoy come in and explain the plot to the characters. 

 

When you look at the two post TOS era films, I cannot seem to figure out why the powers in charge of Trek seem to abandon Trek only to want to completely fall back into TWOK Trek. Its almost M. Night Shaymalan levels of twist.

 

Plot Summary of Insurrection: This alien species is being forecefully removed from their homelands Except TWIST a Rogue Admiral wants their fountain of youth but wait TWIST the subjugators are the specie's children, but you really like scenes of ships fighting in Nebulas, so TWIST we have that as well

 

Plot Summary of Nemesis: The Romulans are getting fiesty EXCEPT TWIST It is actually not and here is a Picard Clone, but wait TWIST we are homaging TWOK at the same time, but you also demanded more action so here is a dune buggy and Star Wars like small craft fighters. 

 

Plot Summary of Into Darkness: Terrorists attack the Federation EXCEPT Twist Carol Marcus's clothes keep being removed, oh and her father is a Rogue Admiral who is sponsoring the terror and TWIST wanted to launch torpedoes filled with augmented humans at the Klingon Homeworld but TWIST none of it matters a good damn because New Spock is going to telephone Old Spock and confirm everything we knew BEFORE the movie premiered TWIST Benedict Cumberbatch was Khan the entire time but TWIST we are going to do the death in reverse!

 

Plot Summary of Beyond: Goddamn Greg Grunberg can't get his ass out of a chair or into a Starfleet uniform that doesn't look heavily modified to fight a threat to his starbase. Oh, yeah, an old 2200s Starfleet captain gets marooned on a planet and has to compromise his morals (TWIST Like KHAN!) and our heroic captain must stop him and his three lieutenants whose background we only get at the very end after we killed them all except TWIST Kirk gets to hell's heart stab at the drones destroying them all.  Then, because someone remembered this was the 3rd NuTrek and we needed to rebuild the Enterprise because that is what heppens at the end of the 3rd TOS film we get a quick and dirty montage of the building of 1701A. 

 

Pictured Below: Greg Grunberg pulls a Riker in Insurrection and shaves off his beard to entice the ladies while he captains his starbase. 

 

Please excuse my rant. I have way too much free time today at work, and my Wars friends have given me lots of grief about Star Trek Destiny's trailer and how Star Trek Attack Wing sucks as a game.  I, too, have been genetically designed to sense death Star Trek Destiny, and I sense it is coming to your series. 


But I hear Bridge Crew is really good....

post #5663 of 5790
In the Bridge Crew gameplay that I've seen online, the players seem to be genuinely having fun, but it's because the controls of Federation starship have been given to friends who like to crack each other up. It's potentially a terrific party game, if you can afford a headset for each party guest.
post #5664 of 5790

We have been talking about getting together and doing an Artemis bridge sim. I have seen it at conventions. I have three computers and we could scrounge up a couple of tablets for a full setting of 6. I want to try Bridge Crew, but I don't have the tech (nor the money) to supply each guest with a headset. Otherwise I would love to. 

post #5665 of 5790
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTyres View Post
 

We have been talking about getting together and doing an Artemis bridge sim. I have seen it at conventions. I have three computers and we could scrounge up a couple of tablets for a full setting of 6. I want to try Bridge Crew, but I don't have the tech (nor the money) to supply each guest with a headset. Otherwise I would love to. 

 

Holy shit, Artemis is totally the non-VR version of Bridge Crew.

post #5666 of 5790
Watching the start of First Contact before bed (it's on tv sue me) and I still refuse to believe Sisko would let Worf take the Defiant to fight a Borg invasion of Earth without him.
post #5667 of 5790
Ugh

Fucking Star Trek
post #5668 of 5790
Thread Starter 
The movie would have only been five minutes long if Sisko were there. Would have been a great five minutes.
post #5669 of 5790

Reminds myself of the SFDebris joke in his 'First Contact' review:

 

"We are the Borg, Resistance is..."

 

(aside)  "He's not here right?  You checked?  Not here?  Okay."

 

"Resistance is futile!  There is no one currently here who can stop us!"

post #5670 of 5790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

The movie would have only been five minutes long if Sisko were there. Would have been a great five minutes.

Yup. The Enterprise wouldn't have had to leave the Neutral Zone and we wouldn't have been subjected to Data's groan worthy "to hell with our orders" line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mondguy View Post

Reminds myself of the SFDebris joke in his 'First Contact' review:

"We are the Borg, Resistance is..."

(aside)  "He's not here right?  You checked?  Not here?  Okay."

"Resistance is futile!  There is no one currently here who can stop us!"

ha ha ha
post #5671 of 5790

I wish I remembered who it was who called the Defiant "Sisko's Pimp Hand."

post #5672 of 5790

'course, Sisko never actually fought the Borg!

post #5673 of 5790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
 

I wish I remembered who it was who called the Defiant "Sisko's Pimp Hand."

 

That was SFDebris in his review of "Siege of AR-558"

post #5674 of 5790

I guess that's why it came to mind for me. Thanks!

post #5675 of 5790

I just want you to know...

 

a year after I started writing it...

 

my essay on Star Trek into Darkness is completed and will be published in a book next year.

 

It's 6,002 words long. 

post #5676 of 5790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

I just want you to know...

 

a year after I started writing it...

 

my essay on Star Trek into Darkness is completed and will be published in a book next year.

 

It's 6,002 words long. 

Is it possible to learn such power?

post #5677 of 5790

I will give you an ideal to strive towards. You will race behind me, you will stumble, you will fall. But in time, you will join me in the darkness.

post #5678 of 5790
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

I will give you an ideal to strive towards. You will race behind me, you will stumble, you will fall. But in time, you will join me into darkness.

FIFY
post #5679 of 5790

I thought about that, but it didn't seem grammatically correct. 

post #5680 of 5790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

I thought about that, but it didn't seem grammatically correct. 

I will make it grammatically correct.  

post #5681 of 5790

Also MichaelM looked over it for me. So when the time comes, blame him.

 

Also from this whole experience I learned Uhura is from the United States of Africa. Because that's a thing.

post #5682 of 5790
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

I thought about that, but it didn't seem grammatically correct. 

But it perfectly suits the film.
post #5683 of 5790

Just navel-gazing this afternoon and found this old exchange. Think the new (rumored) Khan series will take things in this direction? Who do you like for Marla McGivers?

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
 

It would have been fascinating to see how their power game had evolved though. In the ep, Khan does this thing where he's blatantly dominating her but simultaneously allowing her to choose to be dominated, and respecting her choice to defy him in rescuing Kirk. Imagine her becoming the true leader, even from a wheelchair or something.

That's a great point.  There could have been a fascinating arc there if the filmmakers really set out to make her a central figure in the movie.  Still, it would have made Khan's thirst for vengeance more of an abstract concept, unless they invented some dead children for him, or something.

 

In any case, this gives me an excuse to post this scene, one of the best in the episode, which illustrates the twisted (yet passionate) early stages of their relationship.  Montalban was at the very top of his game here...

 

 

Who knows what that relationship would have looked like 15 years (and many hardships) later...

post #5684 of 5790

Some fan re-created the Voyager opening sequence at 4K:

 

 

It's pretty good. The prominence looks off, and that layer over the top of the nebula is kind of distracting and awful, but the reflection against the rings looks great.

post #5685 of 5790
Best opening credits of any of the shows. If the series was half as majestic, it would have been much better.
post #5686 of 5790
Thread Starter 
Goldsmith's music theme deserved a better show. But you could say the same for most of his work, sadly.
post #5687 of 5790

What about my Star Trek into Darkness essay?

post #5688 of 5790

Well, if anything, I learned my internet connection is too slow to stream in 4k definition :confused:

post #5689 of 5790
That looks fantastic. I always really liked Voyagers theme song.
post #5690 of 5790
It always sounded like graduation music to me.
post #5691 of 5790

That theme song says "Welcome to this boring-ass show."  What kind of an adventure show begins so somnolently?

post #5692 of 5790
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankCobretti View Post

That theme song says "Welcome to this boring-ass show."  What kind of an adventure show begins so somnolently?

Hahaha... I still like it but I prefer DS9 theme over it myself.
post #5693 of 5790

Voyager ran for 7 seasons?  Holy shit.

 

Considering I watched the entirety of DS9, TNG, and OS, and I think all of Enterprise, it's amazing I've yet to see a single episode.  

post #5694 of 5790
Thread Starter 
Voyager's fourth season is probably the only one worth checking out if you really need a Trek fix.

That show is such a waste of a solid premise.
post #5695 of 5790

Pfff... watch Year of Hell Part 1 and 2 and then rest safe in the knowledge that Voyager was never that good before and never got that good after.

 

(though seriously, that one is worth a watch, very standalone too, no continuity required)

post #5696 of 5790
Thread Starter 
"Scorpion" is good too. One of the few times the show felt like it took its premise earnestly with a fractured and desperate crew. I can only really think of a handful of episodes that actually work with that.

But Neelix needed to fuck off.
post #5697 of 5790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

Voyager's fourth season is probably the only one worth checking out if you really need a Trek fix.

That show is such a waste of a solid premise.

I wish someone had taken the premise of Voyager and made a more hard-edged, sci fi show out of it.  Have the spaceship basically constitute a self-contained sanctuary for humans, far from home, battling against constant threats (with the ship often falling apart around them).  Maybe have some existential threat chasing them while they seek out a homeworld.  

post #5698 of 5790
Thread Starter 
Fun fact: Part of why Ron Moore did BSG was to do to that show what UPN and Rick Berman refused to do with Voyager.

An idea he pitched during his short stint on the show was that the Chakotay and the crew would put Janeway on trial for the questionable command decisions she made since the first episode. It would have been a way to really tap into her character in a way the show never did well with, as she was so inconsistently written throughout the run (she can't violate the prime directive to save lives, but she's totally okay with saving Kes' elf race when she could have gotten her crew home?).

Of course that idea was rejected by Berman on the grounds that it would make Janeway look weak.
post #5699 of 5790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

Of course that idea was rejected by Berman on the grounds that it would make Janeway look weak.

 

And yet, many of Picard's most memorable scenes came when he was expressing weakness.  Admitting his quasi-PTSD while mud wrestling with his brother, the four lights, confronting a witch-hunting prosecutor, etc.  

post #5700 of 5790
Thread Starter 
TNG and DS9 had the benefit of having strong showrunners that took chances with the characters. Though VOY had Michael Piller in its first two seasons, he had to deal with more egos, and then there's UPN. Same story with INSURRECTION.
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