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The Star Trek Thread - Page 116

post #5751 of 5790

I think it was the St. Elsewhere ending.

Riker had been reviewing the history of NX-01 & that's what we were watching for the whole series.

post #5752 of 5790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

Or just watch it with morbid curiousity.

Nobody in production even acknowledges it as a proper finale. "Terra Prime" was designed for all intents and purposes as the actual finale while "These Are the Voyages..." was just an awkward epilogue for 1987-2005 streak that Trek had on TV.

But holy shit is it bad.


Thinking about it in the context of that finale, ENTERPRISE really feels like a misstep into back-pedalling.

 

TNG, DS9 and VOY represent an updated vision of the original TREK future for that time period, with a couple of nice nods to the past along the way.  Warts and all, it feels like a place and time in that universe.  With ENTERPRISE, the new movies, and now DISCOVERY digging into the "future-past" and being forced to reimagine it due to how we've progressed technologically...  I dunno, I think it would have just been smarter to move forward again.   I think after 3 shows and 526 episodes, TREK did need a break.  If we were moving ahead another 80 years- we could show technical, social, storytelling and production progress that represents what a vision of "our" future would look like from today, without it clouding how it had been envisioned in the 80s or the 60s.  All the popular races and tropes are still there, but you get to reset the table a bit with some untold backstory that happened in that intervening time between the last show(s) and now.  You can still revisit the past, seeing old ships or via time travel stories, and the audience will accept those existing aesthetics as "Trek history".

post #5753 of 5790

I've said this many times before, but Enterprise's failure came from the conflict between the desire to fill out the backstory of Trek in a logical, procedural fashion, and the practical restrictions of making a Star Trek show.

 

Warp drive, transporters, and universal translators aren't just signifiers of TOS' historical period. They're also essential TV-writing mechanisms for telling the stories TOS wanted to tell, on a budget and in a one-hour format. Enterprise's runners weren't prepared to make a show with production requirements so different from the Next Gen shows they'd been making for the past 15 years, and they didn't realize that until they were well into it.

post #5754 of 5790

And that's the problem.  TREK hasn't lined up with any realistic idea of the future for some time.  So trying to bridge that gap is folly.  EVERY SF CONCEPT will eventually feel dated.  The Prime Timeline of Trek hasn't match our own since the 90s- when we were suppose to have a genetic war.

 

I was really on board with the idea when it was floated that this new series might take place between ST VI and TNG.  Aesthetically I love ships and uniforms from that period.  But really, this show has to be for new viewers first, and old farts like me should either have just gotten onboard with something new like they did with TNG in '87 (as rocky a start as it was), or keep rewatching TWOK over and over.

post #5755 of 5790
Thread Starter 
post #5756 of 5790

"It'd be worth taking a meeting about"

 

Sounds about as promising as that Vega brothers movie that will never happen.

post #5757 of 5790

"Does that LOOK like it was set on fucking 'stun'"?

post #5758 of 5790

Yeah, I'd have much preferred something new. Far off into the future, so we are not familiar with anyone or anything and learning about what the Federation is all about in this new setting. Tie it in around some kind of basic hook and just go with it.

post #5759 of 5790

It came off as Tarantino just needing to give an answer out of obligation.  Paramount would never allow a Tarantino Star Trek anyway, it's kind of silly to even think about.

post #5760 of 5790
Thread Starter 
I say let him have it, this film series needs a shot in the arm and it would be interesting to see what he'll do with the material.
post #5761 of 5790
RE: the setting and look of the show.

Trek is already an alternate universe. Even the prime timeline. So I’m not worried about it lining up with “us”.

I actually like that they are going to in a sense “fill in some gaps” with the series. But I did prefer Fuller’s idea that it be an Anthology series that would season to season take place all over the Trek timeline. Not just one specific place.

As for the look. It bothers me that what ever attempt they make to reconcile the look of TOS and Discovery seems half assed. “Seems” because I haven’t seen the show yet.

At least in Enterprise they tried hard to make something that logically could have come 100 years or whatever before Kirk and company. And I get it, tech changes, legal issues arise over rights, etc.. but at least make an honest attempt to fit in. What they made looks great just not for “The Cage” era Star Trek.
post #5762 of 5790

Klingon motherfucker, do you speak it?

 

I'd say Tarantino directing a Star Trek movie would never happen, but he did have that quote from Wrath of Khan in the opening of Kill Bill...

post #5763 of 5790

So I finally hit the "Azati Prime" episode of Enterprise and holy shit that was awesome. That last shot of T'Pol's eyes before fading to black was fantastic.

 

Of course it was nearly 2 AM so I had fight with myself not to jump into the next episode.

post #5764 of 5790
Thread Starter 
I remember randomly catching that episode when it first aired, and this was long after I gave up on the show during its first season. I was pretty shocked that they were ending it like that, after years of UPN only serving the stale TNG-lite stuff that Voyager was known for. I think I did stick around for the remainder of the third season, but didn't come back to see it's fourth until it went into syndication after cancellation.
post #5765 of 5790
post #5766 of 5790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post
 

yo!

 

almost, but not quite:

 

 

It's Michelle Yeoh.

post #5767 of 5790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
 

I've said this many times before, but Enterprise's failure came from the conflict between the desire to fill out the backstory of Trek in a logical, procedural fashion, and the practical restrictions of making a Star Trek show.

 

Warp drive, transporters, and universal translators aren't just signifiers of TOS' historical period. They're also essential TV-writing mechanisms for telling the stories TOS wanted to tell, on a budget and in a one-hour format. Enterprise's runners weren't prepared to make a show with production requirements so different from the Next Gen shows they'd been making for the past 15 years, and they didn't realize that until they were well into it.

If they'd actually gone with the original plan for the series it might have worked. I can't remember where I read it (might've been here, might've been io9 or something) but they originally wanted the series to be more like 'From the Earth to the Moon' or 'The Right Stuff' but Star Trek, and the entire first season was going to be about building the NX-01 and getting the crew together (this is also why the series was going to be Enterprise and not Star Trek: Enterprise), but the network suits forced them to re-work it because they didn't think it felt like Star Trek and they wanted them to get to the traveling through space and meeting aliens stuff right away.

post #5768 of 5790

A Smallville-style "no warps" approach will always be a hard sell.

post #5769 of 5790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fafhrd View Post

If they'd actually gone with the original plan for the series it might have worked. I can't remember where I read it (might've been here, might've been io9 or something) but they originally wanted the series to be more like 'From the Earth to the Moon' or 'The Right Stuff' but Star Trek, and the entire first season was going to be about building the NX-01 and getting the crew together (this is also why the series was going to be Enterprise and not Star Trek: Enterprise), but the network suits forced them to re-work it because they didn't think it felt like Star Trek and they wanted them to get to the traveling through space and meeting aliens stuff right away.
I kinda agree with the network on that one. An entire season done that way doesn’t sound particularly exciting to me. It could have worked as a flashbacks, though, to give you something to differentiate more from other Trek series.
post #5770 of 5790
Thread Starter 
I've never actually tried playing "Archer's Theme" to the main credits of Enterprise, but after watching this I wonder if it was composed by McCarthy in case the producers decided not to go with a song. It could have been an easier switch after the backlash, but instead they chose and even more inappropriate remix for the third and fourth season.




As for "Where My Heart Will Take Me", I do think it is fitting for the first two seasons when it tried to be a show about pioneers rather than a Trek prequel. But again, that remix was awful and didn't fit either 3 or 4.
post #5771 of 5790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

I've never actually tried playing "Archer's Theme" to the main credits of Enterprise, but after watching this I wonder if it was composed by McCarthy in case the producers decided not to go with a song. It could have been an easier switch after the backlash, but instead they chose and even more inappropriate remix for the third and fourth season.




As for "Where My Heart Will Take Me", I do think it is fitting for the first two seasons when it tried to be a show about pioneers rather than a Trek prequel. But again, that remix was awful and didn't fit either 3 or 4.


It's still not great (But that may just be my preference for the brassier themes of the previous series talking) but it's a lot better than what we got.  And I think fits the imagery it accompanies quite well.

post #5772 of 5790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fafhrd View Post
 

If they'd actually gone with the original plan for the series it might have worked. I can't remember where I read it (might've been here, might've been io9 or something) but they originally wanted the series to be more like 'From the Earth to the Moon' or 'The Right Stuff' but Star Trek, and the entire first season was going to be about building the NX-01 and getting the crew together (this is also why the series was going to be Enterprise and not Star Trek: Enterprise), but the network suits forced them to re-work it because they didn't think it felt like Star Trek and they wanted them to get to the traveling through space and meeting aliens stuff right away.

 

Pretty much, yup -- Brannon Braga and Rick Berman go into some pretty deep detail on this premise on the Blu-Rays. Also, you wouldn't believe the stupid bullshit the network tried to shoehorn into the show -- like, having literally the latest, hottest real-life boy-bands playing aboard the Enterprise in each episode (this was the late '90s/early '00s, after all); shit like that. And Berman and Braga fought this nonsense tooth-and-nail every step of the way.

 

Suffice to say, my respect for Brannon Braga actually shot up about 800 percent after I watched those documentaries.

post #5773 of 5790
Thread Starter 
Here's that video. Didn't buy the blu-ray for the first two seasons, so I was only finally able to watch this through the video.



On the one hand I do feel for them, but at the same time they seem to have taken the criticism wrongly, or at least were only listening to the more vocal circles that just hate anything different. Like how the only thing they learned from the criticism of the song title was that "it was different from what fans were used to", which IS true, but it was also because the song was really not that good either. They're also annoyed about the fan myth that Manny Coto took over fourth season away from them, when the reality is that they worked close with him on that fourth season. So it's too bad that they, especially Berman, still feel bitter over how hostile the fanbase was over them at the time, and realize that they at least had a solid run when they did with TNG.

Brannon Braga at least takes responsibility for the first season being weak, as a lot of the writers from VOYAGER did not carry over onto the new show, so he had to really stretch and rush himself to get scripts done on time for the network. It's why he ultimately gave showrunning duties to Coto so he could take a needed break from the hard work of setting up and launching ENTERPRISE.
post #5774 of 5790
Thread Starter 
Bought four issues of the Marvel comics EARLY VOYAGES off eBay. This is pretty cool. Maybe the closest to getting a run of Captain Pike adventures. Much more action packed than the actual show might have been if "The Cage" was approved, but it's nice to see more adventures with Number One.


post #5775 of 5790
post #5776 of 5790

what the whaaaa?

post #5777 of 5790

Well that would be... interesting.

 

A Quentin Tarantino Star Trek movie set in the new rebooted verse. Bring it. This would be his first sequel to an already established franchise. I guess what he wanted to do with Brosnan's Bond at one point.

post #5778 of 5790

 

post #5779 of 5790
This totally is totally a thing that will totally happen.

Remember when Tarantino said he was producing HALLOWEEN 6? Or the billion other things?
post #5780 of 5790
QT and JJ are close friends and QT named the first Abrams Trek as one of the best films of 2009. He’s also a hardcore Star Trek fan so this is all very exciting.
post #5781 of 5790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynis View Post

This totally is totally a thing that will totally happen.

Remember when Tarantino said he was producing HALLOWEEN 6? Or the billion other things?

 

Normally I would agree. Tarantino has a thing for talking out of his ass on projects that will never happen.

 

But this is the trades (Deadline) saying it's the real deal. This is something that would garner genuine "I gotta see this!" reactions from the general public. Exactly what the franchise needs.

post #5782 of 5790

Just imagine Admiral Pink explaining "Like A Virgin" to a bunch of ensigns.  

post #5783 of 5790

"I hid this uncomfortable piece of glass up my ass, for two years.  And now, Mr. Scott........I give this Dilithium Crystal to you."

post #5784 of 5790
"He's dead, Jim...he's dead"
post #5785 of 5790

"Does that LOOK like it was on fucking 'stun'?"

post #5786 of 5790
Thread Starter 
Samuel L. Jackson as Benjamin Sisko.

This time he literally commands a ship named the USS Ben Sisko's Motherfucking Pimp Hand
post #5787 of 5790
Did you notice a sign out in front of my ship that said "Dead Klingon Storage"?

Did you notice a sign out in front of my ship that said "Dead Klingon Storage"?

 

 

Rosario Dawson as Uhura for extended foot footage when?

post #5788 of 5790

"You ain't got no problem. I'm on the motherfucker. Go back in there, chill them out and wait for the Worf who should be beaming down directly."

 

QT's previously mentioned his take would be modeled after either The City on the Edge of Forever (TOS) or Yesterday's Enterprise (TNG). Which continuity is his take going to take place in? Or is it Nu Trek?

post #5789 of 5790
Thread Starter 
It'll likely be nuTrek.

Those two episodes he cited would make a great inspiration for a potential send off. Have the nuTrek crew essentially sacrifice themselves by changing the timeline for the better, like Picard's crew did in "Yesterday's Enterprise". George Kirk from 2233 shows up in Kirk's present (via red matter nonsense from the first film's opening) and the crew are faced with a dilemma. They have a chance to alter their timeline. The result would be the restoration of Vulcan and Kirk's father living on. Movie ends with everyone not remembering the events that changed the timeline, except George Kirk, who remembers everything.
post #5790 of 5790

It's exciting to think about.  A film resembling either of those episodes in Tarantino's hands would be great.

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