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TCM's 15 Most Influential Films of All Time

post #1 of 105
4/14/09 at 12:34pm
Thread Starter 
This month, TCM is celebrating its 15th anniversary. Part of that was selecting the 15 most influential films of all time. Here's the list:

The Birth of a Nation (1915)
Battleship Potemkin (1925)
Metropolis (1927)
42nd Street (1933)
It Happened One Night (1934)
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)
Gone with the Wind (1939)
Stagecoach (1939)
Citizen Kane (1941)
Bicycle Thieves (1947)
Rashomon (1950)
The Searchers (1956)
Breathless (1959)
Psycho (1960)
Star Wars (1977)

The big jump between Psycho and Star Wars sure overlooks a lot. It's the biggest gap on the list too.
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post #2 of 105
4/14/09 at 1:09pm
Surely Seven Samurai, rather than Rashomon, deserves more credit for, y'know, pioneering a lot of aspects of modern action cinema.
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post #3 of 105
4/14/09 at 1:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
Surely Seven Samurai, rather than Rashomon, deserves more credit for, y'know, pioneering a lot of aspects of modern action cinema.
Well, if we're going to use that rationale. The Wages of Fear is more deserving than The Seven Samurai.
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post #4 of 105
4/14/09 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
Surely Seven Samurai, rather than Rashomon, deserves more credit for, y'know, pioneering a lot of aspects of modern action cinema.
Rashomon is more important in the history of film culture, though. It was the breakthrough film for Asian cinema, and really put Kurosawa in the position to make bigger films. You don't get Seven Samurai without Rashomon. You can also make the argument that, more than any other movie, it heralded the dawn of the postwar international film* (having been a relative flop in its home country, but a huge hit abroad).

There's also the matter of its narrative innovations, which were probably as influential as Samurai's action.

*Note: I wouldn't agree with this argument, but you could make it.
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post #5 of 105
4/14/09 at 1:35pm
I love The Searchers so, so much. I wouldn't dream of putting anything in it's place. BUT... Rio Bravo woulda been cool.

Neat list.
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post #6 of 105
4/14/09 at 1:44pm
It's hard to disagree with this, although I wish they could have found a way to get Jaws in there.
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post #7 of 105
4/14/09 at 1:45pm
I see the point of about 13 films on there. I'm having a hard time finding a justification for 42nd Street or It Happened One Night.
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post #8 of 105
4/14/09 at 1:47pm
Jaws could have replaced Star Wars, and I wouldn't have been disappointed, even though the latter is kind of inarguably more influential.

I think having both Stagecoach and The Searchers on there is a mistake, though I couldn't pick one to lose. But Easy Rider probably needs to be on that list (filling the gap that Dickson notes).
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post #9 of 105
4/14/09 at 2:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anderson View Post
I see the point of about 13 films on there. I'm having a hard time finding a justification for 42nd Street or It Happened One Night.
The prototypical movie musical and romantic comedy.
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post #10 of 105
4/14/09 at 2:12pm
I would replace Gone with the Wind with Shadows. GWTW, not really influential.
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post #11 of 105
4/14/09 at 2:22pm
It's kind of the ur-prestige picture. Everytime the studios roll out their Oscar fare, I think we're seeing the influence of Gone With the Wind.
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post #12 of 105
4/14/09 at 2:23pm
I'm rather surprised that 'Un Chien Andalou' or any of the films of Stan Brakhage aren't on there.

I'd also argue that 'Some Like it Hot' should be on that list.
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post #13 of 105
4/14/09 at 2:30pm
Are they going to be airing all these films? Because if that's the case, what they can get the rights to would affect the list.
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post #14 of 105
4/14/09 at 2:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anderson View Post
I'm having a hard time finding a justification for...It Happened One Night.
Are you fucking kidding me? Seriously?
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post #15 of 105
4/14/09 at 2:32pm
There are a couple of films you could claim fall under the GWTW umbrella, though - arguably - most are before our time. THE ROBE, BEN-HUR, etc. Large budget literary adaptations, but the nature of the thing makes it hard for me to call it all that influential. Not like Shadows, at least, which has inspired generations of filmmakers at this point. Way more than Star Wars, at that.
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post #16 of 105
4/14/09 at 2:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt M View Post
Jaws could have replaced Star Wars, and I wouldn't have been disappointed, even though the latter is kind of inarguably more influential.

I think having both Stagecoach and The Searchers on there is a mistake, though I couldn't pick one to lose. But Easy Rider probably needs to be on that list (filling the gap that Dickson notes).
Stagecoach is arguably the most influential movie of all time. And The Searchers lay the foundation for the darker cinema of the 60's and 70's.

We can all agree Star Wars was a poor choice.
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post #17 of 105
4/14/09 at 2:40pm
Star Wars wasn't influential?
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post #18 of 105
4/14/09 at 2:45pm
It was a cultural phenomenon, but the influence comes from Jaws. And 2001.
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post #19 of 105
4/14/09 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
I'm rather surprised that 'Un Chien Andalou' or any of the films of Stan Brakhage aren't on there.
Really? This is TCM we're talking about, not IFC. Besides, the lack of documentaries and shorts makes it look like they limited themselves to feature-length narrative films.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post
Stagecoach is arguably the most influential movie of all time. And The Searchers lay the foundation for the darker cinema of the 60's and 70's.
I completely agree, which I why I said I couldn't choose between them. But having two John Ford westerns on the list seems indulgent, especially given the number of great/influential films that aren't represented.

Quote:
We can all agree Star Wars was a poor choice.
I disagree with that. It's hard to look at the modern movie landscape and not see the influence of Star Wars, from a business, technical and aesthetic perspective. "Influential" doesn't necessarily mean that its influence is wholly a positive one.
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post #20 of 105
4/14/09 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post
It was a cultural phenomenon, but the influence comes from Jaws. And 2001.
Well, none of the films on the list are exactly sui generis. Snow White owes a debt to Steamboat Willie. Breathless wouldn't exist without 30s gangster films.
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post #21 of 105
4/14/09 at 4:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte View Post
I would replace Gone with the Wind with Shadows. GWTW, not really influential.

I wasn't specifically thinking of replacing GWIW, but I was wondering why they din't include Shadows.
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post #22 of 105
4/14/09 at 4:50pm
Why are these all 'good' movies that TCM has listed? Looks more like a best-of summation.
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post #23 of 105
4/14/09 at 4:52pm
Thread Starter 
I just look at the gap there from 1960 to 1977, one that encompasses films like Bonnie and Clyde, The Wild Bunch, almost every significant Kubrick film, and many, many others, and can't imagine there was nothing in those 17 years they considered influential. Not that Star Wars isn't influential and doesn't belong on the list, but that's a huge chunk of film history unaccounted for there.
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post #24 of 105
4/14/09 at 4:55pm
Replace Star Wars with Jaws.
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post #25 of 105
4/14/09 at 5:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdHocken View Post
Replace Star Wars with Jaws.
I agree that Jaws can be considered the first true blockbuster, but Star Wars took the term to such another level, and had a cultural and financial impact that Jaws didn't.
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post #26 of 105
4/14/09 at 5:01pm
This is true.
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post #27 of 105
4/14/09 at 5:11pm
GLADIATOR:

It seems like every fucking movie since 2000 has had shitty blue lighting for "cold" scenes, shitty orange lighting for "sunny" scenes, and characters who recite their dialogue in hushed tones in close-up like they're reciting the Bible.

Another contender is TRAFFIC.
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post #28 of 105
4/14/09 at 5:11pm
No NOSFERATU? For shame.
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post #29 of 105
4/14/09 at 5:22pm
Thread Starter 
On his Twitter feed, Devin says he's seen 14 out of the 15, and invites guesses as to which one he hasn't seen. I'm thinking 42nd Street for some reason.
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post #30 of 105
4/14/09 at 5:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte View Post
GWTW, not really influential.
Agreed. I think the people who made this list confused (in regards to GWTW) "one of the most popular" with "influential".
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post #31 of 105
4/14/09 at 5:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
Agreed. I think the people who made this list confused (in regards to GWTW) "one of the most popular" with "influential".
People don't think GWTW is influential as the epic history/soap opera/romance/box office phenomenon it is? I sometimes think that half of Elizabeth Taylor's filmography are attempts to replicate that. Certainly, Titanic is something I'd look at also.
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post #32 of 105
4/14/09 at 5:31pm
From Devin's latest advocate:


Quote:
near complete comic booking and infantilization of our culture
"Star Wars"....not "Jaws"

Interestingly, the Star Wars comic adaptation actually saved Marvel comics/the comic industry from collapse in the late 70s.

Synergy!
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post #33 of 105
4/14/09 at 5:33pm
I've seen it suggested elsewhere that TOY STORY deserves to be considered for totally changing the face of animation. Can't say that I really disagree with that idea, although most of the films on the list are in terms of storytelling and form influence, not technological achievements. THE JAZZ SINGER probably would stand out in that respect.
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post #34 of 105
4/14/09 at 5:44pm
Jaws really needed to be on that list.

And whatever you feel of its quality, I believe Terminator 2 (not Jurassic Park! Forgot which came first) ushered in the revolutionary era of digital effects in film (that Sherlock Holmes movie may have had the first digital effect, but Terminator 2 was the watershed moment).
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post #35 of 105
4/14/09 at 5:45pm
T2 would be the watershed. And I'm 15/15.
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post #36 of 105
4/14/09 at 5:48pm
From a production design standpoint, 'Blade Runner' should be considered as one of the most influential films of all time.
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post #37 of 105
4/14/09 at 5:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte View Post
T2 would be the watershed. And I'm 15/15.
DAMMITDAMMITDAMMIT!

You're right. Forget everything I said about Jurassic Park, and replace it with Terminator 2.
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post #38 of 105
4/14/09 at 5:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by machiav View Post
From Devin's latest advocate:




"Star Wars"....not "Jaws"

Interestingly, the Star Wars comic adaptation actually saved Marvel comics/the comic industry from collapse in the late 70s.

Synergy!
Yeah, I'd say that STAR WARS is the reason we have so many shitty, shitty movies today, not JAWS. The legacy of STAR WARS is blazingly toxic, but it's utterly influential.
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post #39 of 105
4/14/09 at 5:51pm
Not picking Jazz Singer nor Don Juan is a surprising omission to me.
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post #40 of 105
4/14/09 at 5:52pm
Ebert's got TCM's short reasoning behind each title.
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post #41 of 105
4/14/09 at 5:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renn Brown View Post
Not picking Jazz Singer nor Don Juan is a surprising omission to me.
If you're going to pick a mediocre movie just because it happened to be a technological jump, then why not include Workers Leaving the Lumiere Factory?
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post #42 of 105
4/14/09 at 5:58pm
I'm 13 for 15. Missing Birth of a Nation and 42nd Street.

I'm not sure Tron isn't the true breakthrough for CGI, although T2 and Jurassic Park are certainly groundbreaking in their own right.

I think you could make a strong argument for The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, Nosferatu, or Whale's Frankenstein belonging on the list. Probably the fact that there's three strong candidates works against them though.

I'm slightly surprised that All Quiet on the Western Front didn't make it. Also, I would think that Rules of the Game would have been a strong contender. Or perhaps 8 1/2.

The absence of a gangster film surprises me. As does the lack of film noir like Detour or Double Indemnity.

Then again, 15 spots is truly arbitrary and certainly insufficient.
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post #43 of 105
4/14/09 at 6:00pm
Why would JURASSIC PARK be on this list, Overlord? You do understand the huge difference between 'milestones' and 'influential,' right?
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post #44 of 105
4/14/09 at 6:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilTwin View Post
I think you could make a strong argument for The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, Nosferatu, or Whale's Frankenstein belonging on the list. Probably the fact that there's three strong candidates works against it though.
Also hampered by the fact that there's already a German Expressionist film on the list.

Quote:
Also, I would think that Rules of the Game would have been a strong contender. Or perhaps 8 1/2.
Frankly, given the source (and I don't in any way mean this as a slam against TCM, just an acknowledgment of where their bread is buttered), I'm pleasantly surprised that fully a third of the films on the list are not English language.
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post #45 of 105
4/14/09 at 6:07pm
Thread Starter 
Has anyone seen any mention of who actually put the list together?
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post #46 of 105
4/14/09 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
Why would JURASSIC PARK be on this list, Overlord? You do understand the huge difference between 'milestones' and 'influential,' right?
Terminator 2, not Jurassic Park.

I'm surmising you don't believe that the reception, both on the production end and in terms of audience reception, of the digital effects in T2 was "influential." I disagree.
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post #47 of 105
4/14/09 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt M View Post
If you're going to pick a mediocre movie just because it happened to be a technological jump, then why not include Workers Leaving the Lumiere Factory?
Isn't STAR WARS repesenting that? (I slightly kid.)

I do think STAR WARS is the best argument against T2, JURASSIC PARK, etc. based on special effects breakthroughs. Sound design too. I'd think KING KONG would be the only fx driven film remotely in the same ball park in terms of fx influence.
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post #48 of 105
4/14/09 at 6:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt M View Post
If you're going to pick a mediocre movie just because it happened to be a technological jump, then why not include Workers Leaving the Lumiere Factory?
...because the documentary-style nature of the Lumiere shorts was marginalized in favor of the narrative/fanstastic approach that Edison's shorts took, so that would be a shitty choice, even if it was a feature-length.

No studio wanted sound, they had to convert because of these films. It completely changed the concept of filmmaking, and introduced a new tool that brilliant filmmakers were quick to exploit (see Hitchcock and Blackmail). Almost every single film ever made since has been inherently influenced by the early, sound-pioneering films. Color didn't even come close to matching the immediate and ubiquitous influence.
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post #49 of 105
4/14/09 at 6:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilTwin View Post
Isn't STAR WARS repesenting that? (I slightly kid.)
Sound was inevitable, it just happened to be The Jazz Singer that was first out of the gate. And Star Wars' main innovation wasn't technical (although your point about sound design is taken), it was cultural. The commodification that Star Wars brought about--well, it was probably also inevitable, but it might have looked very different without Star Wars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Has anyone seen any mention of who actually put the list together?
Robert Osborne's is the only name I've seen. The rest is a very vague "under the guidance of experts," which could mean that they read some books.
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post #50 of 105
4/14/09 at 6:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Has anyone seen any mention of who actually put the list together?
I have a couple friends at TCM. Wrote them as soon as I saw this. Nothing yet.
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