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Save the rich: Tea Parties funded, organized by lobbyists for big business

post #1 of 273
4/14/09 at 11:14pm
Thread Starter 
I know this probably comes as a surprise to no one in this forum, but it just seems surreal to me that this is actually happening.

Quote:
"Astroturf." Fake grassroots. It's what you get when big business and rich zealots hire pricey consultants to manufacture public outrage.

With big budgets, limitless manpower, sophisticated targeting, and a sympathetic media channel, it's not difficult to generate anger.

We will spend the next days documenting exactly who these people are. They are pushing a message out to the press, and with the press. It's going to take information and work to push back.
Quote:
Think Progress:

Despite these attempts to make the "movement" appear organic, the principle organizers of the local events are actually the lobbyist-run think tanks Americans for Prosperity and Freedom Works. The two groups are heavily staffed and well funded, and are providing all the logistical and public relations work necessary for planning coast-to-coast protests

News Hounds:

Also, as was reported by two Playboy reporters (more on Playboy's report here), CNBC's second-stringer Rick Santelli's rant against President Obama on the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange wasn't exactly spontaneous, but was actually a carefully-planned trigger for an anti-Obama campaign, funded and assisted by the right-wing big-wig Koch family, the multibilllionaire owners of the largest private corporation in America, and funders of scores of rightwing thinktanks and advocacy groups, including the Cato Institute, Reason Magazine and FreedomWorks. (The Koch Family's head rightie, Fred Koch, was also a co-founder of the notorious extremist-rightwing John Birch Society). Does seem a little odd, doesn't it, that a bunch of tea party websites and organizations were online and live within hours, even minutes, after his rant, and voila – a week later a protest was born.
More info at $ave The Rich.
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post #2 of 273
4/15/09 at 9:27am
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123975867505519363.html

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The tea-party protest movement is organizing itself, on its own behalf. Some existing organizations, like Newt Gingrich's American Solutions and FreedomWorks, have gotten involved. But they're involved as followers and facilitators, not leaders. The leaders are appearing on their own, and reaching out to others through blogs, Facebook, chat boards and alternative media.
Quote:
The good news for Republicans is that, while the Republican Party flounders in its response to the Obama presidency and its programs, millions of Americans are getting organized on their own. The bad news is that those Americans, despite their opposition to President Obama's policies, aren't especially friendly to the GOP. When Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele asked to speak at the Chicago tea party, his request was politely refused by the organizers: "With regards to stage time, we respectfully must inform Chairman Steele that RNC officials are welcome to participate in the rally itself, but we prefer to limit stage time to those who are not elected officials, both in Government as well as political parties. This is an opportunity for Americans to speak, and elected officials to listen, not the other way around."
Im loving how the website you linked to attempts to make a direct connection between these Tea Parties and white nationalist movements.

Personally, I dont bother putting faith into any website that uses the terms "rightwing" or "leftwing" more than once in a single sentence when describing someone or something .
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post #3 of 273
4/15/09 at 9:49am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123975867505519363.html

Im loving how the website you linked to attempts to make a direct connection between these Tea Parties and white nationalist movements.

Personally, I dont bother putting faith into any website that uses the terms "rightwing" or "leftwing" more than once in a single sentence when describing someone or something .
If you're going to convince me the tea bagging is "spontaneous," you will have to do better than a joke of an editorial from the WSJ, owned by teabagging sponsor News Corp.

ps. Fox and the lobbyist and right wing backers stole the idea for tea parties from the Ron Paul movement, and the Ron Paul movement isn't pleased with their idea being used in support of borrow and spend republicans like Gingrich.
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post #4 of 273
4/15/09 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post

ps. Fox and the lobbyist and right wing backers stole the idea for tea parties from the Ron Paul movement, and the Ron Paul movement isn't pleased with their idea being used in support of borrow and spend republicans like Gingrich.
I know...but you kinda just helped me make my point. A lot of the tea parties going on are part of that little movement. And living in Chicago, it was news here for a while when Steele was denied the opportunity to speak.

Believe it or not, there are some people out there who arent racists, white nationalists, Fox News enthusiasts, etc who dont necessarily have anything against your buddy Obama but oppose higher taxes, bailouts, and the dramatic increase in the size of government on perfectly reasonable and well thought out grounds. And believe it or not, some of these people have organized rallies recently to make their disagreements known.

If you're going to convince me the tea bagging is all part of some vast rightwing conspiracy, you will have to do better than a joke of a website like Save The Rich.
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post #5 of 273
4/15/09 at 10:36am
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Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
Believe it or not, there are some people out there who arent racists, white nationalists, Fox News enthusiasts, etc who dont necessarily have anything against your buddy Obama but oppose higher taxes, bailouts, and the dramatic increase in the size of government on perfectly reasonable and well thought out grounds.
Right. And they've just been biding their time lo these past eight years. Gimme a goddamn break.
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post #6 of 273
4/15/09 at 10:44am
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Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
Right. And they've just been biding their time lo these past eight years. Gimme a goddamn break.
And I'm sure these type of movements would have sprung up doing the Bush administration if the bailouts they are protesting against would have happened his watch.

Regardless of stance, it's good to see local people becoming more involved in politics.
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post #7 of 273
4/15/09 at 10:48am
Weren't there some anti-bailout protests while Bush was in office? Maybe they weren't from the conservatives but I thought they had more than a couple ...
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post #8 of 273
4/15/09 at 10:48am
Thread Starter 
I don't question the sincerity of the Ron Paul followers, who totally outshone the GOP convention last year (not that I agree with them, but I see their consistency). What is a total sham isn't a "conspiracy" at all; it's a corporate marketing campaign, baldly and plainly. You can use $ave the Rich as a way to discredit that idea, but it's just aggregating facts about where the money and organization behind this "movement" is coming from.

It's using the usual wedge and fringe people to make it look like the country is rising up against a tax on the very rich (with some good oldfashioned anti-labor propagandizing thrown in). It's also obfuscating the fact that the people it's using are the very same people who were so harshly punished in favor of the rich and powerful under Gingrich's "permanent Republican majority" congress.

And, as JS points out, where was the populist outrage when Bush was throwing the nation's treasury at the rich and powerful while leaving the country to rot, turning a surplus into a deficit and skyrocketing the debt to please his base of "haves and have mores"?
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post #9 of 273
4/15/09 at 10:53am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick View Post
And I'm sure these type of movements would have sprung up doing the Bush administration if the bailouts they are protesting against would have happened his watch.

Regardless of stance, it's good to see local people becoming more involved in politics.
The first bailouts happened on Bush's watch, and the policies that led to the bailouts happened on Bush's watch.

And these protests aren't about bailouts, though their organizers are using anti-bailout rage as a way to manipulate people into joining the fray. They're anti-tax anti-spend anti-union anti-Obama.
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post #10 of 273
4/15/09 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post
The first bailouts happened on Bush's watch, and the policies that led to the bailouts happened on Bush's watch.

And these protests aren't about bailouts, though their organizers are using anti-bailout rage as a way to manipulate people into joining the fray. They're anti-tax anti-spend anti-union anti-Obama.
And as ElCaption said people did protest what Bush did, just not on this scale.

And wouldn't just about everybody be against high taxes and large government spending?
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post #11 of 273
4/15/09 at 10:59am
Well, Obama is supporting the status quo and keeping the rich failures rich as well. I don't see how you can really support either party; the Dems are just the lesser evil.
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post #12 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
Weren't there some anti-bailout protests while Bush was in office? Maybe they weren't from the conservatives but I thought they had more than a couple ...
Wouldn't know. Under Bush, shit like that rarely made it in front of a camera.
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post #13 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post
The first bailouts happened on Bush's watch, and the policies that led to the bailouts happened on Bush's watch.

And these protests aren't about bailouts, though their organizers are using anti-bailout rage as a way to manipulate people into joining the fray. They're anti-tax anti-spend anti-union anti-Obama.
I got a facebook invite to one of these rallies, it said it was anti bail out and anti spend. So again, to me it's the conservative response to the bailout mess which I thought I saw from the liberal side under Bush's watch.
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post #14 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
I got a facebook invite to one of these rallies, it said it was anti bail out and anti spend. So again, to me it's the conservative response to the bailout mess which I thought I saw from the liberal side under Bush's watch.
And how much endorsement did these liberal anti-spend protests get from Fox News and Americans for Prosperity? Yeah, the tea paries are just totally grassroots everyday Americans who hate deficit spending. Especially under a black Democratic president.
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post #15 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
Weren't there some anti-bailout protests while Bush was in office? Maybe they weren't from the conservatives but I thought they had more than a couple ...

There were a few indeed. And they were usually set up (as they are today) by actual conservatives. You can't help but appreciate the distance some of these groups are trying to create between them and the GOP.

And like it or not, it seems that Santellis nonsensical rant was the spark that ignited this thing, but methinks it was also perfect timing considering the big news stories in the days leading up to The Santelli fiasco were a new round of bailouts plus impending increases in taxes and government spending as a % of GDP.
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post #16 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick View Post

And wouldn't just about everybody be against high taxes and large government spending?


You would think so, but for some reason a lot of people (especially these days) see it as the solution rather than the problem.
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post #17 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
And how much endorsement did these liberal anti-spend protests get from Fox News and Americans for Prosperity? Yeah, the tea paries are just totally grassroots everyday Americans who hate deficit spending. Especially under a black Democratic president.

Nobody is suggesting that GOP backed organizations aren't trying to support and grow this movement. It doesn't change the fact that a good amount of these folks who are speaking out against taxes, bailouts, etc were doing so before it became chic.

And I figured we would make to at least the 22nd post before someone accused those attending these rallies as being racist. Kudos to you on the quick work.
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post #18 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:22am
The teabag party idea began on Feb. 15, in direct response to the stimulus bill, not the bailouts.
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post #19 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:22am
Except for that inconvenient fact that OBAMA IS LOWERING TAXES on everyone making less that $250,000 annually.
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post #20 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
I got a facebook invite to one of these rallies, it said it was anti bail out and anti spend. So again, to me it's the conservative response to the bailout mess which I thought I saw from the liberal side under Bush's watch.

Through one of the Austrian Economics groups I belong to, I started receiving these types of invitations after Bear in March of 08.
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post #21 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
Especially under a black Democratic president.
The fuck? what does this have to do about race?
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post #22 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:25am
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Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
And I figured we would make to at least the 22nd post before someone accused those attending these rallies as being racist. Kudos to you on the quick work.
Cry me a river.

I love the idea that people are actually pretending these are jes' plain good ol' common folks who just all of a sudden hate deficit spending.
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post #23 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
Except for that inconvenient fact that OBAMA IS LOWERING TAXES on everyone making less that $250,000 annually.
yeah, I did get that extra 8 bucks in my paycheck, but hell, even that will be taxed soon enough.
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post #24 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
Cry me a river.

I love the idea that people are actually pretending these are jes' plain good ol' common folks who just all of a sudden hate deficit spending.
But you've lumped everyone that goes to these rallies as being a raciest.
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post #25 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:28am
These fucknuts better not screw up my commute from work today.
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post #26 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
Except for that inconvenient fact that OBAMA IS LOWERING TAXES on everyone making less that $250,000 annually.


Read up on the relationship between inflation (actual inflation, not a byproduct of) and government spending as a % of GDP and it's impact on the overall economy. There's some good info in the "economy...oops" thread inbetween yt and I having our lovers spats.

The folks that have been speaking out for a while are rightfully concerned about this stuff.
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post #27 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
And how much endorsement did these liberal anti-spend protests get from Fox News and Americans for Prosperity? Yeah, the tea paries are just totally grassroots everyday Americans who hate deficit spending. Especially under a black Democratic president.
I'm not saying these rallies are not sponsored/supported/promoted by other groups. I was responding to the "where was this outrage when Bush was in office" comment.

My original reply had this part which I removed, that the only difference is that these have more support from outfits like Fox News. Not sure about the other groups, not familiar with them at all.

To me these protests are a waste of time, and having MSNBC making it's 10,000th "teabagging" joke just gives them more attention than they deserve in the first place.
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post #28 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick View Post
But you've lumped everyone that goes to these rallies as being a raciest.


Blanket generalizations make life so much simpler.
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post #29 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
The folks that have been speaking out for a while are rightfully concerned about this stuff.
I don't doubt that. I'm simply suggesting that those "rightfully concerned" people probably amount to about 5% of these protests.
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post #30 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:35am
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Originally Posted by EdHocken View Post
These fucknuts better not screw up my commute from work today.

I lived smack in the middle of downtown Los Angeles during the 2006 immigration protests.

Those fuckers can block traffic with the best of em.
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post #31 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
Blanket generalizations make life so much simpler.
Thank god liberals have never ever suffered from blanket generalizations.
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post #32 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
I love the idea that people are actually pretending these are jes' plain good ol' common folks who just all of a sudden hate deficit spending.
One of my best friends is the one who sent me the facebook invite. I'm pretty sure he didn't send it to us because he's a racist, just because he really is against increased govt. spending.

I'm against govt. spending too, but unlike him I was upset about this all along during the Bush administration and now I do think it is necessary.
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post #33 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:36am
I'm still unclear as to what the point of these things are. Are they anti-tax? Anti-bailout? What is the appropriation of the Tea Party imagery all about?
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post #34 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:36am
But nearly eight years of waiting? This smacks of one the worst cases of Monday Morning quarterbacking.
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post #35 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
I don't doubt that. I'm simply suggesting that those "rightfully concerned" people probably amount to about 5% of these protests.

I would argue that it's more. Unfortunately there's no way to know.

Why don't you and I attend the rallies in our respective areas and count how many people are wearing sleeveless shirts and/or denim jackets? That'll be a good place to start.
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post #36 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdHocken View Post
But nearly eight years of waiting? This smacks of one the worst cases of Monday Morning quarterbacking.

Precisely.
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post #37 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
Why don't you and I attend the rallies in our respective areas and count how many people are wearing sleeveless shirts and/or denim jackets? That'll be a good place to start.

And pickup trucks with rifle racks!
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post #38 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
Thank god liberals have never ever suffered from blanket generalizations.


Hold the phone...you mean that all Obama voters WERENT poor people looking for the government to make their car payments?

Generalizations from both sides of the spectrum are retarded, but 2 wrongs....well, you know.
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post #39 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt M View Post
I'm still unclear as to what the point of these things are. Are they anti-tax? Anti-bailout? What is the appropriation of the Tea Party imagery all about?
I'm not 100% sure either, but here's the description of the one I got invited to;

Quote:
Earlier last month, a CNBC reporter named Rick Santelli called for a Boston Tea Party-like rally in Chicago to protest President Obama's plan to bail out the mortgages or irresponsible individuals by using taxpayer dollars. It is also to protest the massive debt our nation is incurring and the rapid acceleration into a depression.

This is not an Anti-Obama or Anti-Democrat rally.
It is much bigger than that.
Yes, we have grievances and disagreements with President Obama, but he is just one part of a much larger whole in the march to Socialism, and the rapid abandoning of Capitalism and individual Liberty.

This is a rally for Liberty.
This is a rally for Freedom.
This is a rally for Capitalism.
This is a rally for our future generations.
This is a rally to show that you aren't alone.

Help us

Bring your voice


We will be meeting at Lykes Gaslight Park in Downtown Tampa from 5pm to 7pm.
The address is 401 N Franklin Street, Tampa, FL 33602
See a map below.
There will be another group meet at 12-2pm at the same location.

Bring any signs, posters, megaphones, and anything else that may be helpful.

Email us at tampateaparty@gmail.com if you have further questions


This is not a platform for current or future politicians to springboard off of. They ought to have their own merits and accomplishments to get elected, or re-elected. We aren't asking you to sign some petition, and we aren't rallying you behind one particular candidate. This is not the venue for that.
They're about Liberty and Freedom! :-)
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post #40 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:46am
The problem I see with these Tea Party groups is they're not doing enough to drive the messaging across. While Bush was woefully irresponsible with his budget and our debt towards the later part of his administration, Obama is picking up that ball and sprinting with it.

Last year we spent $450bn on interest for our national debt and the CBO projects trillion+ dollar deficits for the next ten years based upon congress and the Obama administrations spending, that means we'll be paying nearly one trillion dollars a year just in interest for our national debt by 2019. This isn't debt our children will inherit, this is debt we will inherit in 10 short years from now and it will be impossible to repay that level of debt with that weighty of an amount of interest for a country of any size and level of prosperity.

Ask yourselves, how old will you be in 10 years? If you have kids, how old will they be? More then likely the answer is you'll be less then 40 and your kids will still be in public school and at best earning minimum wage during a summer job.
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/r...ir_expense.htm
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post #41 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:46am
Everybody is also glossing over the point that many Democratic and liberal protests have been organized by people and organizations with big money.

Obama and his supposed tax cuts and stimulus package are really no change from what was before us. There is not much that he has done that is any different from what has come before him.
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post #42 of 273
4/15/09 at 11:47am
It's interesting how we've moved on to "Socialist" now that "Liberal" just doesn't seem to turn stomachs the way it used to.
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post #43 of 273
4/15/09 at 12:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
Hold the phone...you mean that all Obama voters WERENT poor people looking for the government to make their car payments?

Generalizations from both sides of the spectrum are retarded, but 2 wrongs....well, you know.
I think it'd be easier to buy the fact that Conservative Republicans aren't crazy reactionaries making far too many easy generalizations if their national media face and protest parties didn't feature crazy reactionaries making far too many easy generalizations.
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post #44 of 273
4/15/09 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
Except for that inconvenient fact that OBAMA IS LOWERING TAXES on everyone making less that $250,000 annually.
You sure about that?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Econo...7166810&page=1

Quote:
President Obama's budget chief hinted Wednesday that the president's signature campaign issue -- a middle-class tax cut -- will not likely survive a budget battle with Democrats on Capitol Hill.

The president stresses that despite tough times, things will improve.On a conference call with reporters in advance of the president's trip to the Hill to speak before the Senate Democratic caucus, Office of Management and Budget Director Peter Orszag indicated that, while 98 percent of the budget mark-ups in the House and Senate are on par with the administration's budget blueprint, some campaign trail promises, like middle-class tax cuts, may get left on the cutting room floor.
I don't know what the end result was.... I haven't followed, anyone know the status of that budget?
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post #45 of 273
4/15/09 at 12:20pm
If you look at a lot of the footage it's a lot of "Obama's not an American", "We're all going to be Socialist" nonsense. Socialism isn't just a code word for liberal, it's also a code word for anti-American. These seem to be the mjority and only came out of the woodwork when there was a threat of a black president.

Reagan's deficit spending was through the roof. Where were they then? Waving their flags and cheering their President.

Same with Bush Sr and Bush Jr. The nutters are filling the ranks and these rallies would be sparce without them.

This from a Nazi organization that is latching onto this:
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=588834


Lower taxes (which most of us are actually getting) and smaller government (though I hate that term--efficient, better run governement is a better term) are all noble efforts, but the corporate backing, racists and all around nut balls are ruining the message to fill the ranks.
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post #46 of 273
4/15/09 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
Except for that inconvenient fact that OBAMA IS LOWERING TAXES on everyone making less that $250,000 annually.

So, I guess the SCHIP tobacco tax increase is only being enforced at people making more than $250k?
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post #47 of 273
4/15/09 at 12:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaieke View Post
Yes, he's sure about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Next Paragraph
Obama's middle-class tax cut is locked in place for the next two years as part of the stimulus package he signed into law last month, but Orszag told reporters today that the White House will have to use those two years to figure out how to keep that tax cut in place for middle-class families beyond 2010.
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post #48 of 273
4/15/09 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by matalo View Post
So, I guess the SCHIP tobacco tax increase is only being enforced at people making more than $250k?
Cigarettes are a necessity?
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post #49 of 273
4/15/09 at 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by matalo View Post
So, I guess the SCHIP tobacco tax increase is only being enforced at people making more than $250k?
I think that's also "encouragement" to quit smoking. It's also part of the health initiative.
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post #50 of 273
4/15/09 at 12:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
Cigarettes are a necessity?
Come on, Jacob. You know perfectly well that the White Trash diet consists of 2 packs a day and a liter of Mountain Dew.
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