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post #51 of 273
And Cheetos!


The truly sad thing about these protests is that nobody's gonna get stoned or laid.
post #52 of 273
Speaking of Socialism, is there anything more Socialist in recent US History than the President firing all members of a Union because they were on strike?
post #53 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Count Floyd View Post
Yes, he's sure about that.
That's a different tax cut all together and a different amount that was discussed.

Quote:
The Democrats' stimulus plan would give a $400 tax cut to individuals and an $800 cut to couples
Not to mention that was the Republican initiative in the sitimulus plan... (they're ideas all were tax cuts... tax cuts... and more tax cuts... originality)
post #54 of 273
Thread Starter 
We had the most stable economy in our history between Roosevelt's measures following the Great Depression and Reagan. During that period, the top marginal income tax was first in the 90% range and then, after Kennedy, in the 70% range. So, does that make Republican presidents Eisenhower, Nixon and Ford socialists?

Reagan dropped the top marginal tax to a higher percentage than Obama is proposing by rolling back the Bush tax cuts. Does that make Reagan a socialist?

This whole scam is about the rich protecting the rich and screwing the overall economy. I'm all for protesting the bailouts. I think (and have since the beginning) that they're bull$hit. If that's what this was about you wouldn't hear a peep from me about this phony "movement." I also wouldn't think twice about a protest from the Ron Paul/End the Fed/"libertarian" crowd.

But that's not what this is about. The people being tricked into going to these dumb corporate-sponsored tea parties may think it is. But it isn't. It's about pushing back on Obama's efforts to raise taxes on the very top bracket and his efforts to rescue the economy from the cataclysm wrought by mostly Republican (with some Democratic assistance) policies of the past thirty years. Any student of Depression-era history can easily learn what happens when the government cuts back on spending at an economically vulnerable time like now. The "haves and have mores" and the big multinational corporations don't give two $#its about the health of this nation because for them the point isn't long term health of our common home country; it's about short term profits for them.
post #55 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post
I think it'd be easier to buy the fact that Conservative Republicans aren't crazy reactionaries making far too many easy generalizations if their national media face and protest parties didn't feature crazy reactionaries making far too many easy generalizations.
Hahahah! Get your kids out of college, burn the books!

I love that that one guy was saying that the HDTV boxes are an evil plot to put mind control devices into everybody's homes!!! Wasn't that sort of the riddler's plot in one of the Batman movies?
post #56 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post
The "haves and have mores" and the big multinational corporations don't give two $#its about the health of this nation because for them the point isn't long term health of our common home country; it's about short term profits for them.
Is there a meeting for employees of all these big multi national corporations behind this, or do they just have a mailing list for this type of stuff? I'd love to keep up to date with our plans to continue destroying the county and manipulate the poor fools that go to these meetings.
post #57 of 273
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
Is there a meeting for employees of all these big multi national corporations behind this, or do they just have a mailing list for this type of stuff? I'd love to keep up to date with our plans to continue destroying the county and manipulate the poor fools that go to these meetings.
ElCap, I know you think it's funny and all, but read up on the people who are paying for the teabagging movement and what their interests are, and you'll see easily enough how it's done.
post #58 of 273
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Few Americans realize just how incredibly little, historically speaking, our nation's wealthy now pay in taxes.

In 1955, the year April 15 became the IRS tax-filing deadline, America's top 400 taxpayers paid three times more of their income in taxes than the top 400 of 2006, the most recent year with IRS data available.

According to a new Tax Day report that we co-authored, if the top 400 of 2006 had paid taxes at 1955 rates, the federal treasury would have collected -- from these 400 taxpayers alone -- an additional $35.9 billion more in revenue in 2006.

The 139,000 U.S. taxpayers who made over $2 million in 2006, our report also notes, averaged $5.9 million in income. They paid 23.2 percent of their total incomes in federal income tax. The comparable rate for equivalent high-income Americans in 1955: 49 percent.

If the over-$2 million set in 2006 had paid taxes at the same rate as their 1955 counterparts, the federal treasury would have collected $202 billion.
From "You pay your taxes -- why don't the rich pay their share".
post #59 of 273
In yt's world only 501(c) groups like MoveOn.org are justified in creating rallies I guess

I'm all for the concept of the tea party, but I think its being overshadowed by the right wing wackjobs. While I support the tea party's principles, I can't get behind any meeting where Hannity is giving a prominent role. Here in Atlanta I really can't wait to hear Eric VonHessler's speech though. I hope they tape it so I can listen later.
post #60 of 273
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeSmails View Post
In yt's world only 501(c) groups like MoveOn.org are justified in creating rallies I guess

I'm all for the concept of the tea party, but I think its being overshadowed by the right wing wackjobs. While I support the tea party's principles, I can't get behind any meeting where Hannity is giving a prominent role. Here in Atlanta I really can't wait to hear Eric VonHessler's speech though. I hope they tape it so I can listen later.
I know you know what I mean. I think people's advocates that organize rallies are right and just, for whatever cause, be it lefties or anti-Fed/anti-war Ron Paul-ites. What I find offensive are interested corporate parties and industry lobbyists tricking oftentimes ignorant (but no less hurting from the economic disaster) regular people to rally against their own and their country's interest for the sake of the upper class and multinational corporations.
post #61 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeSmails View Post
While I support the tea party's principles,
What are those, again?

Quote:
Here in Atlanta I really can't wait to hear Eric VonHessler's speech though. I hope they tape it so I can listen later.
Speaking of "libertarians" who largely kept their mouths shut during the Bush administration...
post #62 of 273
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Count Floyd View Post
The teabag party idea began on Feb. 15, in direct response to the stimulus bill, not the bailouts.
Not so. It started in December '07 in response to Bush.
Quote:
This is from your editor’s RADAR Magazine story about the ultimately failed attempt to ride the blimp to Washington and then to Boston, for the stated purpose of dumping tea into Boston Harbor, as a protest, against the big-spending Republicans, particularly the hated George W. Bush:

The original flight plan was a thing of goofy beauty: The airship would cruise over Washington, DC, the nucleus of Imperial America, land in northern Virginia for a triumphant rally, then fly to New York City to buzz the evil Federal Reserve Bank on Wall Street. From there it would cruise to Boston to reenact the original Tea Party by tossing boxes of tea into the harbor from hundreds of feet in the air, while crowds of Paul supporters and journalists looked on in wonder. Finally, there would be a three-week-long crisscrossing tour of the New Hampshire skies. Up until January 8, the date of the all-important primary in the Granite State, the great craft would mercilessly harass the other candidates from the air.

It was understood by everyone else on the Ron Paul discussion forums that the blimp would forever change America. Eyes would be opened. The “sheeple” would see the truth. All the Paulians had to do was cough up $200,000 by December 7 for a month’s blimp rental from Airship Management Services in Elizabeth City. Source.
ps. the original Boston tea party was in response to Britain lowering the corporate tax on English tea to 0% while raising taxes on Americans to quash selling of cheaper Dutch tea. So, the outrage was against lowering corporate taxes to manipulate consumers and migrate more wealth to the ruling class.
post #63 of 273


For a second I thought that guy in the background was against Barney the dinosaur!
post #64 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post
We had the most stable economy in our history between Roosevelt's measures following the Great Depression and Reagan.

.

Wow. That's not anywhere close to being true. At all.

Between the depression and Reagan, we averaged one recession (with an average length of 10 months) every 5 years. Between 1948 and 1980 there were at least 3 recessions per decade. Since Reagan took office, the recession were going through now (the 3rd since he began his presidency) is the first one to last more than 8 months.

As Ive mentioned a few times in various threads, it's probably wiser to look at the Federal Reserve's manipulation of money when studying economic cycles.
post #65 of 273
Oh for Christ's sake. Closer, ElCap and Snaieke, the teabaggers are astroturf, a phony populist movement swiped from the Ron Paul followers and whipped up by a bunch of think tanks like FreedomWorks. The "crazy fringe people" you decry as having taken over the movement, or getting all the press, are the people who started it in the first place. They're also the only ones with any honest passion, or idea what they actually stand for. The rest are corporate plants and people with vague, undirected hatred for Obama/Democrats/Liberals.

I don't suppose the huge media coverage for this, after eight years of media silence on anti-war and anti-Bush protests, strikes you as at all suspicious? No, I suppose it doesn't.
post #66 of 273
Philly's half-assed rally in the rain had that little 16 year old conservative as its keynote speaker.
post #67 of 273
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
Wow. That's not anywhere close to being true. At all.

Between the depression and Reagan, we averaged one recession (with an average length of 10 months) every 5 years. Between 1948 and 1980 there were at least 3 recessions per decade. Since Reagan took office, the recession were going through now (the 3rd since he began his presidency) is the first one to last more than 8 months.
Really? Can you make that case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
As Ive mentioned a few times in various threads, it's probably wiser to look at the Federal Reserve's manipulation of money when studying economic cycles.
I think the Fed has gotten way out of control, specifically under the rule of Greenspan, the darling of your way of thinking, who was forced to admit in hearings that there was a "flaw" in the whole free market, trickle down, no regulations thing. But I don't believe that's anywhere near the whole picture of what has landed us in this perilous shape.
post #68 of 273
It's always "big" business that is mentioned, but today's small businesses will get fat and turn evil...
post #69 of 273
ElCapitan, I wouldn't be surprised when these pictures start to look more and more like your Palin rally photos. Though, I'm a little disappointed...no sign of any plungers! What happened to their Horst Wessel?


Holy shit, folks...it's only been a few months. What happens in a year, when Obama fails to bring back the sun? Does anyone really believe these idiots can go anywhere but up? Their brand of crazy doesn't allow for compromise or reflection or temperance. Fuck 11, get ready for 25 on their dials!

And frankly, it doesn't even matter what the supposed origin(noble or otherwise) of these misguided Tea Parties actually was. They're a lightning rod for all the crazies who are using their Fisher Price understanding of American history to argue against the demons and phantoms that have plagued the poor devils all along...just now out loud and for our public horror.

I'm bracing myself to watch the clock slide backwards on social progress in my country. It's both saddening and frightening, as for some stupid-ass reason I was beginning to believe we were making some serious strides. While I was fully expecting these "patriots" to not give up without a fight, they are raising the bar on just what a group of people can do to ensure that posterity does not look favorably on themselves.

Just wait until these lunatics turn their full attention to the slowly progressing gay rights efforts. Anyone here know their history with the Languedoc in the 13th century?
post #70 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by soylentgreen View Post
I'm bracing myself to watch the clock slide backwards on social progress in my country. It's both saddening and frightening, as for some stupid-ass reason I was beginning to believe we were making some serious strides. While I was fully expecting these "patriots" to not give up without a fight, they are raising the bar on just what a group of people can do to ensure that posterity does not look favorably on themselves. (
Are you serious? These protests don't even look that large in the first place. I really think a whole bunch of people are blowing the significance and size of these way out of proportion.

And BTW, the anti-Bush rallies attracted a lot of crazies and causes that were not clearly defined. Nobody should be surprised that the other side is equally inept at protesting in the first place.

I will be surprised if there wasn't a bunch of guys dressed up as Joe the Plumbers around those rallies though. I'm sure we'll get at least a couple of plungers when more pictures are released.
post #71 of 273
Thread Starter 
I went to a huge anti-war/anti-Bush rally in downtown LA and it was very focused, peaceful and united. Just there weren't any news cameras anywhere.

Also, it's not "a whole bunch of people" blowing the size and importance of this out of proportion, it's the event's co-sponsor, Fox News.

Watch this compilation. The montage starts at :59.
post #72 of 273
CNN coverage of this is hilarious. No matter who they talk to, they're all crazy people who can't articulate a single argument.

"I know what's coming."
"What's coming, sir?"
"Socialism."
"How will socialism come, sir?"
"It's coming."
post #73 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by matalo View Post
So, I guess the SCHIP tobacco tax increase is only being enforced at people making more than $250k?
I have such a hard time feeling sorry for the assholes that stand around blocking the doors to the office I work at all day creating a toxic myasma.

Nowhere in the Constition or the Bill of Rights does it guaranty "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of giving everyone lung cancer with our exhaled toxins"
post #74 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post
I went to a huge anti-war/anti-Bush rally in downtown LA and it was very focused, peaceful and united. Just there weren't any news cameras anywhere.

Also, it's not "a whole bunch of people" blowing the size and importance of this out of proportion, it's the event's co-sponsor, Fox News.

Watch this compilation. The montage starts at :59.
Yeah, Cap, I think that was yt's point in her original post. It's deliberately being "blown out of proportion", that's the definition of astroturf.
post #75 of 273
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Count Floyd View Post
Yeah, Cap, I think that was yt's point in her original post. It's deliberately being "blown out of proportion", that's the definition of astroturf.
Zactly!
post #76 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post
I went to a huge anti-war/anti-Bush rally in downtown LA and it was very focused, peaceful and united. Just there weren't any news cameras anywhere.
Aw, c'mon. What about many of the anti-globalization protests with white middle-class teenage anarchist wearing Che Guevara t-shirts and Nike shoes? And you are sure none of the anti-war protests didn't have a good representation from Truters in among their mist?

As for the media coverage, I don't watch Fox News, but most of it has been very negative and dismissive of the whole thing. I hardly see it as the media promoting this as a serious movement.


Tea Time
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...pinion/columns

Quote:
Some Fox News hosts have been pushing the tea party protests slated for hundreds of cities today, almost to the point that they seem to be the ringmasters of the event.

"It's now my great duty to promote the tea parties. Here we go!" Fox business anchor Stuart Varney said the other day.

But there's another side to this saga. Most of the mainstream media fell down on the job, ignoring the growing movement or mocking it as a bunch of wingnuts.

The New York Times has run zero stories (the only mention was Times columnist Paul Krugman taking a brief swipe at the parties.) The Washington Post has done zip until today, with a story on two planned D.C. parties on Page B-4. The Chicago Tribune ran a 300-word story and an item on postal workers mistaking tea for a hazardous substance. The Los Angeles Times did a 500-word piece on a small protest in Hermosa Beach and has a media piece today. The Boston Globe, published in the city famed for the original tea party: nothing. CNN ran its first news story on the protests Monday (followed by a piece by me on the coverage). MSNBC's coverage had consisted of Rachel Maddow and Ana Marie Cox mocking the "teabagging" until Chris Matthews held a more serious debate Monday.
BTW just to make it clear, I do think this whole thing is unfocused, pointless and has too many loud nutjubs in it but I don't see it as a continuation of how bad people in this country are when it comes to organizing these things.
post #77 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post
Really? Can you make that case?
I don't need to. The National Bureau of Economic Research makes it for me. What I posted isn't up for debate. It's simple fact.

Quote:
I think the Fed has gotten way out of control, specifically under the rule of Greenspan, the darling of your way of thinking
Do you share your CHUD login information with someone? Unless you're suffering from some Memento type ailment, I can't understand why you would even mention Greenspan and "my way of thinking" considering the extensive discussions we've had on the subject. Greenspan was a believer in a lot of things, but obviously not a free market. Anyone who suggests otherwise has their head up their ass. It's like believing Bush when he says he had definitive proof that Iraq had WMDs...just because he says so doesn't make it true.
post #78 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Count Floyd View Post
Yeah, Cap, I think that was yt's point in her original post. It's deliberately being "blown out of proportion", that's the definition of astroturf.
MSNBC has been talking non-stop about this, disproportionately in my opinion for what it truly is. That's what I meant.
post #79 of 273
That's inane (of course, it's Howard Kurtz, so, surprise surprise). Why should media outlets need to go out of their way to obsessively cover events that haven't even happened yet?
post #80 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt M View Post
That's inane (of course, it's Howard Kurtz, so, surprise surprise). Why should media outlets need to go out of their way to obsessively cover events that haven't even happened yet?
Well, MSNBC has been doing exactly that. Just the opposite of Fox of course (mocking the whole thing). Of course Fox has gone out of it's way to promote the thing, but what is anybody else expecting from Fox anymore?
post #81 of 273
I wish some of you would crawl up Ayn Rand's cunt and off this message board.
post #82 of 273
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
I don't need to. The National Bureau of Economic Research makes it for me. What I posted isn't up for debate. It's simple fact.
OK, without speaking in definitives, we're still looking at a relatively stable economy (ETA particularly wrt the banking sector) and a stable quality of life among regular people (not the super rich).

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
Do you share your CHUD login information with someone? Unless you're suffering from some Memento type ailment, I can't understand why you would even mention Greenspan and "my way of thinking" considering the extensive discussions we've had on the subject. Greenspan was a believer in a lot of things, but obviously not a free market. Anyone who suggests otherwise has their head up their ass. It's like believing Bush when he says he had definitive proof that Iraq had WMDs...just because he says so doesn't make it true.
I think it's splitting hairs. You talk about an ideal that has never existed in practical reality. Greenspan represents the practical reality of the ideal.
post #83 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
Are you serious? These protests don't even look that large in the first place. I really think a whole bunch of people are blowing the significance and size of these way out of proportion.
Haha. Well, I was raised as a Roman Catholic til I went over the wire. There's that and my collection of Roland Emmerich movies. So I have a bit of a taste for the apocalyptic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Syd View Post
CNN coverage of this is hilarious. No matter who they talk to, they're all crazy people who can't articulate a single argument.

"I know what's coming."
"What's coming, sir?"
"Socialism."
"How will socialism come, sir?"
"It's coming."
But don't you see? That's the insidious nature of it. Like some Lovecraftian nightmare, it's impossible to describe for fear of the madness even the utterance may bring.
post #84 of 273
The CNN quote that Syd posted has made my day. God help that poor individual who said that.
post #85 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post
OK, without speaking in definitives, we're still looking at a relatively stable economy (ETA particularly wrt the banking sector) and a stable quality of life among regular people (not the super rich).
But that's the thing...were not. A boom/bust cycle dramatic enough to create a 10 month recession every 3-5 years? With inflation, unemployment, etc that comes along with each of these recessions I don't see how you can make that statement with a straight face. If you're talking about tax revenue or middle class income that's one thing, but the economy between the time periods you mentioned was anything but stable.
Quote:
I think it's splitting hairs. You talk about an ideal that has never existed in practical reality. Greenspan represents the practical reality of the ideal.
I disagree. Why not just call it what it is instead of following some talking point? How do you expect to get to the root of the problem if you don't bother trying to understand what actually caused it in the first place?

If Obamas policies don't pan out, you won't see me blaming it on socialism for the mere fact that's not what he's doing.

Don't blame it on the free market if one didn't even exist. Seems pretty fair.
post #86 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
Well, MSNBC has been doing exactly that. Just the opposite of Fox of course (mocking the whole thing). Of course Fox has gone out of it's way to promote the thing, but what is anybody else expecting from Fox anymore?

Exactly. Saying "Fox Has A Right Wing Bias" is like saying"The Sun Comes Up In the Morning'. I can see wanting to counter the crap that Fox puts out, but the endless angry outrage over it is really tiresome.
And those who hate Fox are getting their kind of news channel with MSNBC,so chill out.
post #87 of 273
Yes, MSNBC is so liberal that they have a full 2 hours of original programming with a liberal bent. And 3 hours hosted by a conservative Republican.
post #88 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post
ElCap, I know you think it's funny and all, but read up on the people who are paying for the teabagging movement and what their interests are, and you'll see easily enough how it's done.

A Conspiracy Theory from yt. How unexpected.
post #89 of 273
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
A Conspiracy Theory from yt. How unexpected.
post #90 of 273
That was AWESOME. Somehow, I've missed seeing that on the internets. Thanks yt!!!!
post #91 of 273
Actually, I am a total skeptic on religon.
Interesting how yt overeacts when anybody reminds him of the way he used to push the 9/11 "Truth" bullshit on this website.
Sort of hurts his credibility, I guess.
post #92 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Actually, I am a total skeptic on religon.
Interesting how yt overeacts when anybody reminds him of the way he used to push the 9/11 "Truth" bullshit on this website.
Sort of hurts his credibility, I guess.
What does it say about your credibility when it comes to discussing yt's "regular" practices on this board that you haven't been paying enough attention to her posts to realize she's not a guy.
post #93 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Actually, I am a total skeptic on religon.
Interesting how yt overeacts when anybody reminds him of the way he used to push the 9/11 "Truth" bullshit on this website.
Sort of hurts his credibility, I guess.
I think yt is a woman.

Its fine and fair to attack the tea parties, alls fair in politics. But you have to
realize that they are no more silly or full of crazies than all of the anti-Bush/anti-war/anti-globalization rallies of the past 8+ years. Its just the opposite side's crazies. When the rally subject matters are reversed all the libs on this board go apeshit when the conservatives make fun of their rally attendees. This is the same thing people, just reversed, everyones needs to chill the fuck out I swear.
post #94 of 273
I just saw a large, grass roots movement of.......five people on my way to class. And if there's one thing I can gleam from both the coverage and seeing this people live, it's that liberal protesters have the better signs. Seriously, these things are sloppily written in sharpie with spelling mistakes galore on several pieces of computer paper duct taped to a stick. Take some pride in your protesting!
post #95 of 273
I know exactly two people who are participating in one of these, and in their defense they're both complete idiots.
post #96 of 273
Quote:
I'm bracing myself to watch the clock slide backwards on social progress in my country. It's both saddening and frightening, as for some stupid-ass reason I was beginning to believe we were making some serious strides. While I was fully expecting these "patriots" to not give up without a fight, they are raising the bar on just what a group of people can do to ensure that posterity does not look favorably on themselves.
Jesus Freaking Christ,the number of teabaggers are small,Obama is still riding high in the polls, and there are no signs of a conservative revival...a little early to do a Chicken Little act.
I think some people are really upset by the mere fact that people might disagree with their politics.
post #97 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeSmails View Post
I think yt is a woman.

Its fine and fair to attack the tea parties, alls fair in politics. But you have to
realize that they are no more silly or full of crazies than all of the anti-Bush/anti-war/anti-globalization rallies of the past 8+ years. Its just the opposite side's crazies. When the rally subject matters are reversed all the libs on this board go apeshit when the conservatives make fun of their rally attendees. This is the same thing people, just reversed, everyones needs to chill the fuck out I swear.
Actually, that's a bit unfair of a comparison. There were plenty of legit reasons to protest Bush, and there were plenty of legit protesters. Yes, there are always going to be a contingent of legalize it guys, conspiracy nuts and and weirdos at lefty rallies, but this tea bag day protest has little in the way of actual substance to show for it.
post #98 of 273
I saw one of these protesters quoted as saying, "I paid as much in taxes this year as the year I graduated from college!"

Um, unless you were drafted as a pro athlete or something, wouldn't that be a good thing?
post #99 of 273
Yeah, I'm not sure who is genuinely outraged by their taxes this year. Just at a glance, I'm paying less of a percentage than ever.
post #100 of 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
I saw one of these protesters quoted as saying, "I paid as much in taxes this year as the year I graduated from college!"

Um, unless you were drafted as a pro athlete or something, wouldn't that be a good thing?
Yeah, I don't get how that makes any sense at all.
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