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Legalize it now.

post #1 of 70
Thread Starter 
I'm not a habitual smoker. I've probably done it 10 times in my life. But I've long advocated for marijuana legalization, and I've been reading Andrew Sullivan's The Cannabis Closet blogs on his page where people write in about their pot smoking and their advocacy for legalization - http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com - and then I read this particular entry today:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Sullivan's Blog
My closet story is a little different. I had smoked pot since JR High. Smoked it all the way through college and continued throughout of much of my adult life. I never really tried to hide it except from bosses and parents. I gave it up about ten years ago because I no longer liked the way it made me feel. Anxious...and paranoid. So I stopped.

I did not smoke again for about seven years. When my wife was diagnosed with cancer in 2006 we gave it the good fight. But the chemo and steroids made her so sick, and the anti-nausea medicine did nothing to help her. Surprisingly, it was my 78 year old mother that suggested I get her some pot.

I had not even considered that for some reason, but later that night my son dropped by and I asked him if he could get us a little since all my connections were gone. That evening, when my wife came out of the bathroom after throwing up for the sixth time that day, I suggested she try it. She had never been a pot smoker. (Those few times she had tired it, it tended to make her sleepy. So she would have a Margarita when we were relaxing at home alone.)

The effect was immediate and dramatic. Not only was she not throwing up any more, she got a bit of her appetite back. And the little aches and pains from the steroids went away too. I'll never forget that night because I took a couple of hits too. (I told her that I had to test it. She said if I use that logic I should test the chemo too. HA!!!) We laughed and giggled like kids. And we talked about things that she had not been able to talk about before. Like her regret of not going to see the grandkids grow up. And that she was going to leave me alone. I made us some hot chocolate and we talked well into the night. After we had gone to bed I woke up to find her head laying on my chest and her looking up at me. She asked if we could smoke a little more and talk. I'll tell you Andrew, I almost started crying. She had been so closed off since the doctor told her she had cancer.

We had quite a few more evenings like that. I honestly don't think she would have lasted the two months that she did if she had not used the pot. She used it for the last two months that she lived and was no longer apprehensive when going for her chemo. She even put on some weight. And she start sleeping through the night. I can tell you without any doubt that her life, and our relationship, was good for those two months.

It will be two years April 18th. I miss her terribly but I am so glad we had those evenings of smoking pot and talking about the inevitable. 26 years of marriage is a long time. Those evenings made us stronger. I sincerely hope you and Aaron have the kind of marriage we did, Andrew.
I'm tired of how this issue's being discussed in America today. Even President Obama treated it like it was a joke, my first serious disappointment in his Presidency. I think that if it were marketed, protected like alcohol, and there was serious education about it, that legalization could help solve some money problems, some medical needs, and maybe it would help our country to grow up a little bit. It's a drug, it can be addicting (at least psychologically) and there needs to be some system in hand to keep it out of children's hands. But as adults, I think we should start demanding to be treated like adults. I'm not some Rastafarian sitting on a street corner - I'm a productive member of society and I'm a grownup. I think it's time this gets discussed seriously instead of being made a joke. My two cents.
post #2 of 70
I completely agree. I'm sick of the patronizing answers given any time this issue is brought up. While I understand that this is a tricky legislative issue and I'd hate to see Obama ruined over this issue I feel its about time we acknowledged that this is not a dangerous drug. The laws concerning this were based in racism, its time for a fresh start.
post #3 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan "Nordling" Cerny View Post
It's a drug, it can be addicting (at least psychologically) and there needs to be some system in hand to keep it out of children's hands.
Habituating, not addicting. Addictions cause actual physical changes to your body that require you to take that substance to prevent negative effects; habituation is a much milder effect and easier to break. The vast majority of people who give up pot experience some restlessness and difficulty falling asleep, which lasts a few days, and that's about it.

One of the (many) great things about California is the relative ease of obtaining medical marijuana. While that means that you can get it for minor aches and problems, it also means that folks who really need it (like the aforementioned cancer patient) generally have few problems getting it for at least palliative purposes.
post #4 of 70
Agree with the sentiments, but there's bigger fish to fry right now. And having Obama be the guy to legalize it would open such a fucking can of worms, I don't see him going anywhere near this.
post #5 of 70
I doubt that much revenue would be gained by legalization. I think it will always be regularly smoked by a minority, though a significant amount have tried it a few times. For an example, I point to the Netherlands. In the weeks I've spent there, the tourists far outnumbered the locals buying. And further, perhaps more scientific studies, have bolstered this observation.
post #6 of 70
I would ask, well, when it's legalized, what would the potheads have to complain about? Then I realize they'd just sit around and smoke all day, smug in their victory.
post #7 of 70
As long as opponents cling to the whole "gateway drug" idea, legalization will never get anywhere.
post #8 of 70
Thread Starter 
See, that's what I'm talking about. Single sentences - "Eh, it'll never be legalized" or "What will potheads complain about?" - don't address the issue. And saying we have more important things going on? Guess what. We'll always have more important things to deal with. I don't see the homeless going away, or terrorism. But this is a single issue that actually can be solved.
post #9 of 70
They won't legalize it. Big Pharm won't let them. It should be legalized, or at the very least decriminalized to the point where you could have 4-5 plants for personal use. The money wasted on marijuana control is ridiculous. As is the amount of people in jail for this non violent crime.
post #10 of 70
That's just the thing. You can grow your own marijuana and it takes up less space then one of those home brew kits, this isn't going to be a cash cow.

Also, how would you determine if someone is driving under the influence? legally speaking...
post #11 of 70
Check out the debate between Congressman Ron Paul vs Stephen Baldwin over the marijuana issue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufekh_SwZd0
post #12 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaieke View Post
Also, how would you determine if someone is driving under the influence? legally speaking...
Ask them if they enjoyed DOMINO.
post #13 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaieke View Post
Also, how would you determine if someone is driving under the influence? legally speaking...
Twinkie wrappers flying out of the windows.

Seriously, it's ridiculous that marijuana is still illegal. Unlike alcohol, pot has been demonstrated to have an actual medicinal value. I personally don't care for marijuana, but I'll be damned if I'll criticize someone for using it while I'm sipping on a scotch.
post #14 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaieke View Post
That's just the thing. You can grow your own marijuana and it takes up less space then one of those home brew kits, this isn't going to be a cash cow.

Also, how would you determine if someone is driving under the influence? legally speaking...
What a dumb question. How do you determine if someone is driving under the influence of pain medication?
post #15 of 70
You're preaching the choir Nord. Although I do hand it to the president, more importantly to the Attorney General who is backing off the states that legalize for medical use.

If there is one thing I'd want to come out of legalization. It's the fact that quality can be much more guranteeable and you won't get ripped off. Which for some one like myself is my concern. Not to mention, i figure smoking by yourself is liking drinking by yourself. Really depressing.

And as always, Snaieke is being a dumbass for the sake of one. No surprise there.
post #16 of 70
Quote:
Also, how would you determine if someone is driving under the influence? legally speaking...
People get arrested for driving while high all the time. Piss tests, hair tests, what have you.

Alan - I "smoke on the reg" (sorry), so I'm not anti-legalization; I just don't see what's to be gained politically by going down in history as the guy who legalized marijuana. And that's what it's going to take for someone to fight that fight all the way - a big, fat ego looking to secure their legacy. Obama isn't touching this with a ten foot bong.

It was a nice story that you posted, but how would legalization have changed that couple's experience?
post #17 of 70
What would the MADD equivalent be, MAHD?
post #18 of 70
Phil has a point on both counts. Obama has shit tons more stuff on his plate than this. And as much as these laws are bullshit, I'd rather have the guy crack the nut on Health Care. Shit, I'd rather have Don't Ask finally get repealed.
post #19 of 70
Would proposing a legalization bill while wearing a Peter Tosh t-shirt make Obama the coolest president ever? So what if he loses the red states!
post #20 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan "Nordling" Cerny View Post
See, that's what I'm talking about. Single sentences - "Eh, it'll never be legalized" or "What will potheads complain about?" - don't address the issue. And saying we have more important things going on? Guess what. We'll always have more important things to deal with. I don't see the homeless going away, or terrorism. But this is a single issue that actually can be solved.
It's that retarded argument that they can only do one thing at a time, when all the other problems are magically whisked away.
post #21 of 70
I think the best hope for legalization would be Obama easing on the federal crackdowns (like he has) and then the states taking it from there. That being said, I don't see it happening.
post #22 of 70
I think it's more likely that law enforcement will all but offically not give a shit anymore, one day. And no, drinking and smoking by your lonesome doesn't have to be depressing, at least for myself. I imagine you'd already be depressed for thanks of being alone, and the drug would feed into that.
post #23 of 70
Reasons why I support legalization:

1. Government shouldn't be in the business of dictating to its citizens how best to live a healthy life. On the flipside, government shouldn't be in the business of paying for the medical care required as a function of people's unhealthy lifestyle choices.

1a. As near as I can tell, pot is no worse for you than gin.

2. Nobody smokes pot and gets into bar fights.

3. Legalizing pot would save enormous amounts of law enforcement money. Additionally, it would eliminate a major source of funding for the Mexican drug cartels that are causing so much damage to our neighbor in the south.
post #24 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankCobretti View Post
Reasons why I support legalization:

3. Legalizing pot would save enormous amounts of law enforcement money. Additionally, it would eliminate a major source of funding for the Mexican drug cartels that are causing so much damage to our neighbor in the south.
Not to mention the states along the border. If something doesn't change quick to get money out of the hands of the cartels in Mexico I think I'll be leaving Houston and heading north quick. Either the cartels run the city or the good ole boys go Wild West. Either way, I don't want to stick around to watch.
post #25 of 70
I think the reality is that there are so few immediate political benefits to legalization vs. all kinds of immediate liabilities that you're never going to see a first term president do more than quietly back off federal enforcement. Maybe if he gets a 2nd term and has freer hand, he could take some more significant action and weather the temporary storm. He's more likely than his predecessors to give a shit about the people most affected by pseudo-prohibition of harmless recreational drugs.

And in case anyone's wondering, yes, I'm absolutely saying that George Bush doesn't care about black people. Or Hispanics, or poor whites, or any of the disadvantaged kinds of person that are most vulnerable to selective enforcement of drug laws. Maybe Obama doesn't either, I haven't met the guy, but I'm racist enough to assume a black president is more prone be concerned with such laws effect on the black community.

Edited because I'm both stupid and grammatically anal.
post #26 of 70
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
I think the reality is that there are so few immediate political benefits to legalization vs. all kinds of immediate liabilities that you're never going to see a first term president do more than quietly back off federal enforcement. Maybe if he gets a 2nd term and has freer hand, he could take some more significant action and whether the temporary storm.
I actually don't think it would be that bad. I imagine marijuana use is probably comparable to alcohol use during Prohibition (I got no stats to back me up on that, just gut feelings) and I think the social stigma of it is what keeps people in the closet, so to speak.

FAMILY GUY (yeah, I know, bear with me) last night was pretty in your face about legalization and then at the end of the show they reversed themselves because there was no way any major network would allow them to advocate for legalization, much like those gangster movies of the 20s and 30s made the Cagneys and the Robinsons so cool only to have them die in the final act so they could say "crime doesn't pay." And after FG was over they had an anti-pot commercial that, in the context of what preceded it, was just a complete joke. Could not take it seriously at all, but you know it was the network basically forcing their hand.
post #27 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
What a dumb question. How do you determine if someone is driving under the influence of pain medication?
http://www.mpp.org/library/marijuana...-laws-how.html

The problem is, THC can stay in the blood for upto 24-48 hours... not to mention it can be stored in fat cells and released slowly over the course of (up to) a 30 day period (longer depending upon usage and how obese you are). As to field sobriety tests, asking for someone's blood is very pervasive and how do you justify it? At what point is it legally OK for them to demand a blood sample from you and how culpable would you be based on the results.

The guy reeked of it! Well, if you smoke out in your house all the time, clothing will reek of it.
The guys eyes were red! Well, if you have allergies your eyes could be red, if you were crying you could have red eyes.
etc...

However, at the time you weren't on anything but you had some several hours ago, or the night before or a week before.

This isn't like prescription medication, at least in the context it is being discussed. This is legalization like turning it into cigarettes and alcohol. You can buy it at a store, or a club or however this will be sold.

Anecdotally, I know of some stuff that is so strong that you could be impaired for 12+ hours straight which leads to further complications. There are so many variants of MJ with regard to strength and potency and the ways to have it enter your system (pill, food, smoke, vapor, etc... ) from a legal stand point... this is a nightmare to regulate.
post #28 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan "Nordling" Cerny View Post
I actually don't think it would be that bad. I imagine marijuana use is probably comparable to alcohol use during Prohibition (I got no stats to back me up on that, just gut feelings) and I think the social stigma of it is what keeps people in the closet, so to speak.
That's my gut feeling as well. It's pretty amazing when talking to people just how many people my age say that their parents smoke regularly. I mean, by anecdotal evidence (which is not evidence at all) the 50-60 year old parents are higher than any of the kids and grand kids.
post #29 of 70
Snaieke has apparently never heard of the roadside Olympics.

There are protocols in place now for alleging and proving driving under the influence of many intoxicants of varying legality. Hardly anything would need to be changed for the sake of DUIs.
post #30 of 70
I couldn't care less about this issue.

The only case that resonates is people who claim to need it for medical purposes. I thought there were already a good set of laws in a some states that allowed for this. I don't see a problem with that.

As for all other cases, wouldn't a more gradual step would be to fine people instead of jailing them for use? If it was for me, we'd make cigarette smoking illegal in the first place so I'm not fond of legalizing other ways to pollute my breathing space.
post #31 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
If it was for me, we'd make cigarette smoking illegal in the first place so I'm not fond of legalizing other ways to pollute my breathing space.
The cool kids use vaporizers (or brownies), so we're not polluting your air.
post #32 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Zeed View Post
Check out the debate between Congressman Ron Paul vs Stephen Baldwin over the marijuana issue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufekh_SwZd0
The fuck is Stephen Baldwin doing talking about anything?
post #33 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
As for all other cases, wouldn't a more gradual step would be to fine people instead of jailing them for use? If it was for me, we'd make cigarette smoking illegal in the first place so I'm not fond of legalizing other ways to pollute my breathing space.
But it's not for you, and that's why you must accept that there are different people around you, with different leanings.
post #34 of 70
If it was up to me.

But then again, as long as I don't smell it it's not my problem. Smoke that and your cigarettes in your house but not next to me and then we're OK I guess. I mention this because I see people always say "what about cigarettes"? My answer is screw all smokers.
post #35 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
How do you determine if someone is driving under the influence of pain medication?
If they can prove it you have invalidated your insurance, even if it's a mild analgesic. That "do not operate heavy machinery", that aint a suggestion that is a legal notice.

If pot were legal I could smoke it again without my wife getting all pissy.
post #36 of 70
post #37 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaieke View Post
As to field sobriety tests, asking for someone's blood is very pervasive and how do you justify it? At what point is it legally OK for them to demand a blood sample from you and how culpable would you be based on the results.
Blood tests for alcohol-related DUIs are already in place, though. And wasn't it the main DUI test before breathalyzers were invented?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
There are protocols in place now for alleging and proving driving under the influence of many intoxicants of varying legality. Hardly anything would need to be changed for the sake of DUIs.
This is sometimes able to convict. The police certify an expert, and he decides if you're illegally operating a vehicle on drugs, illegal or no.

Quote:
12 Steps of the Drug Evaluation Process

1. Breath Alcohol Test
2. Interview of Arresting Officer
3. Preliminary Examination
4. Eye Examination
5. Divided Attention Tests
6. Examination of Vital Signs
7. Dark Room Examinations
8. Examination of Muscle Tone
9. Examination of Injection Sites
10. Suspects Statements / Other Observations
11. Opinion of the Evaluator
12. The Toxicological Examination
post #38 of 70
Why do you need to legalise it? Surely decriminalising it is enough?

...and we have roadside drug tests here in Melbourne that can test for pot as easily as a breathaliser these days. My weed loving mates hate it cause they can't go drive to the all night convenience stores at 3am any more.
post #39 of 70
The DUI thing is just a dumb argument that we shouldn't spend any more time on. The gateway thing is probably the one that gets the most traction with the common man. Ironically, it's worked in the opposite direction for me. The only thing that weed led me to do was the occasional cigarette after I got a taste for the act of smoking.
post #40 of 70
Thread started on 4/20. Just sayin'.
post #41 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankCobretti View Post

3. Legalizing pot would save enormous amounts of law enforcement money. Additionally, it would eliminate a major source of funding for the Mexican drug cartels that are causing so much damage to our neighbor in the south.
IIRC there isn't that much money in pot - too much risk, too little reward for the cartels to transport. The cash cows are heroin and coke.

I'd love to back this up, but all I've got is the Wiki page that says most of the high-grade cannabis sold in the US is grown domestically.
post #42 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd View Post
Thread started on 4/20. Just sayin'.
You think that was a coincidence?
post #43 of 70
I imagine not on Sullivan's blog. I think here it might have been.
post #44 of 70
4/20s not over if you haven't gone to sleep yet.
post #45 of 70
Thread Starter 
Sullivan's been talking about this issue for months, so it's no surprise he posted something yesterday. But no, it wasn't a coincidence. Heh.
post #46 of 70
I wish my stance on marijuana were as cut and dried as everyone else's. Unfortunately, I know quite a few people who have been permanently affected by it. One hasn't smoked for at least 5 years and still struggles to string together a coherent sentence. Myself, I've smoked 3 times in my life and the last time brought on some SERIOUS mental problems that are never going away.

That's not to say I believe it should remain illegal just because I was affected negatively, only that I'm not quite as certain about it as I would have been, lets say, 5 years ago.

And yes, I realise cigarettes and alcohol aren't exactly the safest things in the world either.
post #47 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post
IIRC there isn't that much money in pot - too much risk, too little reward for the cartels to transport. The cash cows are heroin and coke.
It's my understanding, based on the the newspaper articles I've been reading over the last six months, that marijuana is, indeed, a significant moneymaker for the cartels. So much so, in fact, that they're even financing and running farms within the borders of the U.S. The margin on pot isn't as high as the margin on heroin and cocaine, but they make their money on volume.

I mostly read The Washington Post, btw.
post #48 of 70
Thread Starter 
There was a great story on NPR yesterday about what the world would be like if marijuana was legal. Give it a listen. It's hilarious how they set it in Austin, btw.
post #49 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
I wish my stance on marijuana were as cut and dried as everyone else's. Unfortunately, I know quite a few people who have been permanently affected by it. One hasn't smoked for at least 5 years and still struggles to string together a coherent sentence. Myself, I've smoked 3 times in my life and the last time brought on some SERIOUS mental problems that are never going away.

That's not to say I believe it should remain illegal just because I was affected negatively, only that I'm not quite as certain about it as I would have been, lets say, 5 years ago.

And yes, I realise cigarettes and alcohol aren't exactly the safest things in the world either.
If said person hasn't smoked weed in five years and is still struggling to speak coherently wouldn't it be safe to say that they were a bit messed up to begin with. I just have never heard of weed having permanent effects.
post #50 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherm View Post
If said person hasn't smoked weed in five years and is still struggling to speak coherently wouldn't it be safe to say that they were a bit messed up to begin with. I just have never heard of weed having permanent effects.
Indeed. Would love to know what permanent effects someone might have had from regular old pot. If it was a fry stick or primo, then we're having a completely different discussion.
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