CHUD.com Community › Forums › THE MAIN SEWER › Focused Film Discussion › STAR TREK Post Release Discussion: The Reboot
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

STAR TREK Post Release Discussion: The Reboot - Page 8

post #351 of 1137
5/10/09 at 9:06pm
Point taken guys...

But I'm right about Nero and his knowledge. The only thing that is kind of stupid about that line is that it's the typical action movie set-up for him to get his comeuppance.

"You killed my dad so now I'll kill you!"

But that doesn't happen.

Though it does make more sense for Spock to deliver the killing blow because Nero offed his entire race.

That's my one complaint. They should have handled that in a more satisfying way. I didn't like the way Nero died. Spock kills him but you don't really get to see it, nor do you get the cathartic satisfaction.

Other than that, though, the movie was a slam-bang in the entertainment department.
Reply
post #352 of 1137
5/10/09 at 9:06pm
This movie was more about the crew than the villain, not that makes up for poor writing and omitted details. Maybe they'll do better with the bad guy in Star Trek II: Re-Khan.
Reply
post #353 of 1137
5/10/09 at 9:07pm
The movie was surprisingly good despite being a mashup of Star Trek IV, VI and the cadet movie everyone always wants to make.

The cast was every really good, except Chris Pine. He just lacks the swagger of Shanter. Not that it's a bitch against him as he was good as Kirk, just someone else will always be better.
Reply
post #354 of 1137
5/10/09 at 9:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erix View Post
Though it does make more sense for Spock to deliver the killing blow because Nero offed his entire race.

That's my one complaint. They should have handled that in a more satisfying way. I didn't like the way Nero died. Spock kills him but you don't really get to see it, nor do you get the cathartic satisfaction.
I got my cathartic satisfaction when Kirk offers diplomacy and Spock basically says "Fuck that, blow the ship to hell".

I suppose it is kind of robbed of some of the oomph when Nero basically succumbs to his own fate and tells them to go ahead and kill him though.
Reply
post #355 of 1137
5/10/09 at 9:14pm
They just ran out of ideas with Nero at that point. Note that at no point in the movie does he care about the Romulan race or even saving his future wife.
Reply
post #356 of 1137
5/10/09 at 9:15pm
Oh and an old point... but Devin was NOT KIDDING about the destiny/fate thing. Watching the movie, it literally felt like I was watching some higher power course correct the right characters into their pre-ordained positions.

"Wut!? You can't decipher the language!? Get the hell off the seat! Uhura, you take over!"

"Dr. dead!? McCoy, you're in!"

"Worms? Sulu? The hell?"

"Kirk, you have to be captain for some reason."

It was kinda like watching an M. Night movie.
Reply
post #357 of 1137
5/10/09 at 9:17pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
They just ran out of ideas with Nero at that point. Note that at no point in the movie does he care about the Romulan race or even saving his future wife.
Again, I think you're watching a really fucked up script in action. Nero is caught directly between two drafts - he has no real motivation because they took the old one away and didn't have a chance to give him one.

It seems like that's the main reason the dumb prequel comic exists.
Reply
post #358 of 1137
5/10/09 at 9:20pm
Thread Starter 
BTW, if anyone can explain why Pike makes Kirk first officer I'd really appreciate it. It's like he read ahead in the script and realized they'd have no captain later on.
Reply
post #359 of 1137
5/10/09 at 9:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
I still think one of the more annoying things is Spock lazily hanging out in a cave in Hoth instead of making himself useful by going to the nearest outpost.
There's plenty to complain about with the uber clumsy ol' Spock bits, but how do we know he wasn't making his way to the outpost? Of course it's a lazy coincidence that they meet up in the cave, but there's nothing to suggest that Spock has taken up residence in that cave for long term.

And yes it was very nice of Nero to supply Spock with a winter coat and means to make fire whilst stranding him on ice planet to watch his planet die.
Reply
post #360 of 1137
5/10/09 at 9:24pm
I kinda filled in the blanks myself in that case where Pike just believed in Kirk's abilities regardless of the fact that he wasn't even supposed to be there right then. Since Pike was the one who convinced Kirk to join Starfleet anyway.

But yeah. Pike knew they'd have no captain later on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith F View Post
Of course it's a lazy coincidence that they meet up in the cave, but there's nothing to suggest that Spock has taken up residence in that cave for long term.
Lazy coincidence is simply destiny with more letters!
Going along those lines, I suppose Spock could've also just taken temporary refuge from the snarling vagina beast while he was on his way to the outpost. He already knew where it was, right?
Reply
post #361 of 1137
5/10/09 at 9:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith F View Post
There's plenty to complain about with the uber clumsy ol' Spock bits, but how do we know he wasn't making his way to the outpost? Of course it's a lazy coincidence that they meet up in the cave, but there's nothing to suggest that Spock has taken up residence in that cave for long term.
hahaha ... so it the cave like a shortcut to the outpost?

Is he taking refuge there? Because that cozy little outpost looks safer and a lot comfier.

I mean c'mon, the only reason we have Spock in a cave saving Kirk from the Phantom Menace monsters is to have a dramatic and heroic entrance. It's horrible, I also laughed at them lingering on showing Nemoy's back for a bit like it was a big surprise that this was in fact Spock.

Quote:
And yes it was very nice of Nero to supply Spock with a winter coat and means to make fire whilst stranding him on ice planet to watch his planet die.
Wouldn't it be better to strap him to a chair in his Uber-Borg-mining ship and force him to watch from a window or a screen? It makes no sense that they dropped him off there, conveniently near a Federation Outpost.
Reply
post #362 of 1137
5/10/09 at 9:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakespeare View Post
I got my cathartic satisfaction when Kirk offers diplomacy and Spock basically says "Fuck that, blow the ship to hell".

I suppose it is kind of robbed of some of the oomph when Nero basically succumbs to his own fate and tells them to go ahead and kill him though.
That's what I mean. All it would have taken was some slightly better staging. Like in Wrath of Khan, when The Enterprise speeds away just as Khan's ship explodes, it's a kick-ass moment. And Montalban gets to deliver his agonizing soliloquy right before it.

The idea of Nero just saying: Ok fine, here I go is not a bad one. But maybe a reaction shot right before the ship implodes... Or have him actually get sucked out and fall into the black hole... Something like that.

Abrams is usually on top of that kind of thing. The way PHS went in M:I-3 is one of my favorite bad guy comeuppances ever.

And the movie was full of crowd-pleasers like that. So to fuck up the chief villain's demise just seemed odd to me.
Reply
post #363 of 1137
5/10/09 at 9:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
BTW, if anyone can explain why Pike makes Kirk first officer I'd really appreciate it. It's like he read ahead in the script and realized they'd have no captain later on.
Kind of thought it as Kirk getting the credit that he father had earned, more of the lines like "hell, if he's anything like his old man!"

wasn't this film pushed from December to May in order to work on some re-writes after the writers strike?
Reply
post #364 of 1137
5/10/09 at 9:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
hahaha ... so it the cave like a shortcut to the outpost?
I didn't say it was smart, just one of the lesser complaints about that nonsense. There's so many problems with that whole scenario that I just wasn't worried about how or why Spock happened into the cave.

It's just a shitty, shitty screenplay. I'm still surprised by how taken I was with the picture given the amount of problems I had with things like that, and Devin pointed out some things that I hadn't even touched upon yet.

Question, maybe I missed something, but how exactly did Captain Pike lose the use of his legs? Was it the creature, or just general torture from Nero?
Reply
post #365 of 1137
5/10/09 at 9:45pm
Or maybe he'd just been released from the hospital and was just taking advantage of the pampering?

"Captain Pike, you can get up now."

"Sigh... it's too hot today."
Reply
post #366 of 1137
5/10/09 at 9:46pm
I thought that was implying that he was "recovering" no that he couldn't walk any longer.
Reply
post #367 of 1137
5/10/09 at 9:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
I thought that was implying that he was "recovering" no that he couldn't walk any longer.
Okay. I can buy that.
Reply
post #368 of 1137
5/10/09 at 9:48pm
Thread Starter 
He was in a wheelchair because he was in a wheelchair in the episode THE MENAGERIE. That's it. Dumb script.
Reply
post #369 of 1137
5/10/09 at 9:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
He was in a wheelchair because he was in a wheelchair in the episode THE MENAGERIE. That's it. Dumb script.
I can buy that even easier.
Reply
post #370 of 1137
5/10/09 at 9:50pm
Thread Starter 
Tell me why he's a uniform from STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE, which takes place like 25 years after this movie. That's the big question.
Reply
post #371 of 1137
5/10/09 at 9:52pm
That's a uniform? I thought he was still wearing his hospital clothes.
Reply
post #372 of 1137
5/10/09 at 9:58pm
I could have used a an eerie story about the "Spire" ship that roams the edges of the galaxy menacing science stations or something... Some kind of sign that until Spock shows up these guys are space pirates who rape and pillage and plunder, who are also looking for a way to stop a Supernova. It must be on the cutting room floor, which is a shame because they had to have done SOMETHING with their time.
Reply
post #373 of 1137
5/10/09 at 10:16pm
Saw it today, found it to be very good. Not great but the cast really sells the material. Had they had some dead weight or poor casting choices it would have really highlighted the plot holes.

Anyone else catch the slusho reference at the bar? I admit to rolling my eyes on that one. But I did love the use of Sabotage with the stolen corvette, that was a good choice of music.

I also enjoyed the very logical way Vulcan kids try to bully each other.
Reply
post #374 of 1137
5/10/09 at 10:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domingo View Post
I could have used a an eerie story about the "Spire" ship that roams the edges of the galaxy menacing science stations or something... Some kind of sign that until Spock shows up these guys are space pirates who rape and pillage and plunder, who are also looking for a way to stop a Supernova. It must be on the cutting room floor, which is a shame because they had to have done SOMETHING with their time.
They were captured by Klingons and rotting in Rura Penthe. It's referenced in the movie but there was a whole scene of him escaping that this movie could've used but was cut.
Reply
post #375 of 1137
5/10/09 at 10:33pm
I swear the way Spock Prime gives Scotty the warp drive equation parallels the way Scott gave the formula for transparent aluminum.
Reply
post #376 of 1137
5/10/09 at 10:34pm
Was there really? What was the line? Or is this me being made fun of by a Star Trek dork? Man that would be a new one...
Reply
post #377 of 1137
5/10/09 at 10:34pm
See, nobody wins with these bullshit time travel stories. It nearly (or clearly, depending on your point of view) sinks the whole film and it was just so very unnecessary.
Reply
post #378 of 1137
5/10/09 at 10:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domingo View Post
Was there really? What was the line? Or is this me being made fun of by a Star Trek dork? Man that would be a new one...
I'm not saying it's exactly the same. It just reminded me of that one scene.
Reply
post #379 of 1137
5/10/09 at 10:36pm
I was talking to Jakespeare.
Reply
post #380 of 1137
5/10/09 at 10:37pm
Never mind then.
Reply
post #381 of 1137
5/10/09 at 10:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domingo View Post
Was there really? What was the line? Or is this me being made fun of by a Star Trek dork? Man that would be a new one...
It was either in the mind meld or in the scene where Nero is explaining everything to Pike. I know they talked about it.

Well, wait a second. Uhura explains that a Klingon armada was wiped out by Romulans. That was the escape. So there's that. i just know there was a shot of Nero in the mines somewhere.

Damn, it'd be nice to have a better memory at points like this.
Reply
post #382 of 1137
5/10/09 at 10:42pm
I'm pretty sure there was a shot during the mind meld sequence that shows Nero in what could be a Kligon prison.
Reply
post #383 of 1137
5/10/09 at 10:42pm
Thread Starter 
They shot the scenes at the prison planet but cut them out. The film has ADR at a number of points where Nero says he has been waiting 25 years, which is retarded.

The Klingon fleet getting creamed likely only ended up in the finished film because Kirk needs it to convince Pike there's a trap. But it makes 0 sense in the final film.
Reply
post #384 of 1137
5/10/09 at 10:45pm
Which brings up another plot hole on why he would know when and where Spock's ship would be coming through the singularity, and that he apparently escaped the Kligon prison just in time to capture him.
Reply
post #385 of 1137
5/10/09 at 10:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
Spock had a fucking winter coat for some reason - little holes like that are ones that you must avoid to stay sane.
Really?
Reply
post #386 of 1137
5/10/09 at 10:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubWilliams View Post
Which brings up another plot hole on why he would know when and where Spock's ship would be coming through the singularity, and that he apparently escaped the Kligon prison just in time to capture him.
Would the singularity open twice in the same spot? That could explain how he knew to be there.

As to the timing? I don't know, and that's one of the nitpicks that's sticking with me.
Reply
post #387 of 1137
5/10/09 at 10:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott View Post
Really?
What do you mean, really? As in you think we should get annoyed that Spock has a winter coat for no good reason or that you think even noticing it (ie being observant and/or intelligent) is bad?
Reply
post #388 of 1137
5/10/09 at 10:51pm
He gave Spock that coat because he wanted Spock to live and suffer forever! Or something.

It was a nice coat. Pretty sure it had velcro.
Reply
post #389 of 1137
5/10/09 at 10:56pm
Spock could have been eaten by one of the many monsters in the planet, again if it was so important for him to make sure Spock witnesses the destruction of his planet, he would have been better off just restraining Spock in his ship and then marooning him in a place hopefully without a Federation outpost.

Spock has no business in that planet. I'm guessing by what Devin is saying about the script, that the original idea was that Spock knew Kirk was going to be here and he decided to meet up with him there instead of aboard the Enterprise. That makes more sense.
Reply
post #390 of 1137
5/10/09 at 10:56pm
is it odd that I literally have no interest whatsoever in seeing this movie? Its not like I didn't watch the shows as a kid...but the trailers leave me so cold to it, that I can't even fathom renting it when it hits dvd.
Reply
post #391 of 1137
5/10/09 at 10:57pm
It's the piling up of "why's" that make the coat an issue. If there was a reason why Kirk couldn't go to the brig, if there was a reason why Spock wasn't already at the outpost, if there was a reason why the pod wouldn't hone to the outpost, etc. etc. If basically you've got to put a character in a tenuous situation to have your Prequel action beat, and then have a tenuous situation to get them out of it, it points out things like "jeez, Spock is well equiped for his situation considering what he just explained about how he got in that situation." Honestly, I think Abrams expects to accept it because Spock is playing Ben Kenobi.
Reply
post #392 of 1137
5/10/09 at 10:57pm
It is mind-shatteringly dumb at times, but I was surprised how much I enjoyed it. Given that they were shackled with resetting the franchise and given hero moments for the entire crew while paying homage to the old guard, I thought they did a good job. You just can't think about it that much. But, it's not as dumb as something like...say, Transformers. And as stupid as the plot stuff is, the characters are front and center and the performances ring true. I was expecting a lot worse. I also liked the way it looked. Holy sun-flare, Abrams.

I'm still trying to figure out if resetting the franchise like this is ballsy or commercially calculated "(lets make it for Joe Blow...the nerds will come no matter what.") but I have to admit, I like it. Fuck continuity. Who gives a shit? Start over.

But I couldn't help but sit there and think why Kirk's dad dying had anything to do with preventing Pike to captain the Enterprise and flying to the big-brain planet like in the original pilot...but whatever.

One person dressed up in our entire theater. As the nerds behind me put it, "Pretty ironic that there's a theater full of people, only one person dressed up, and she's a cute little hottie." Uhura.
Reply
post #393 of 1137
5/10/09 at 10:59pm
I'm confused about a new thing. Kirk runs to the bridge, yelling and hollaring to convince them that it's a Romulan trap, because he knew the signs of the storm that preceeded the Kevlin attack. Did I miss this line about Klingons being destroyed? When was this? Also Kirk uses Uhuras transmission as proof, but up until that point did we even really have a scene where she said "I found a strange transmission about Romulans" or something to that effect? I only remember lines about how good at breaking code she is. I'm a little confused about the "proof" of that scene.
Reply
post #394 of 1137
5/10/09 at 11:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
What do you mean, really? As in you think we should get annoyed that Spock has a winter coat for no good reason or that you think even noticing it (ie being observant and/or intelligent) is bad?
It's kind of like asking why Night Owl has a winter Owl outfit at the ready, but it is pretty stupid. Also, Spock should totally be at the base at that point. What the fuck is he doing sitting around waiting in the cave? It looks pretty fucking cold on that planet.
Reply
post #395 of 1137
5/10/09 at 11:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
Spock has no business in that planet. I'm guessing by what Devin is saying about the script, that the original idea was that Spock knew Kirk was going to be here and he decided to meet up with him there instead of aboard the Enterprise. That makes more sense.
But then how would he have known Kirk was going to be there?
Reply
post #396 of 1137
5/10/09 at 11:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domingo View Post
I'm confused about a new thing. Kirk runs to the bridge, yelling and hollaring to convince them that it's a Romulan trap, because he knew the signs of the storm that preceeded the Kevlin attack. Did I miss this line about Klingons being destroyed? When was this? Also Kirk uses Uhuras transmission as proof, but up until that point did we even really have a scene where she said "I found a strange transmission about Romulans" or something to that effect? I only remember lines about how good at breaking code she is. I'm a little confused about the "proof" of that scene.
When Kirk is under the bed in Uhura's room after sleeping with her roommate Uhura says "Hey, I was in the lab deciphering a transmission about a destroyed Klingon armada" or something to that effect. Kirk overhears this and uses it later/
Reply
post #397 of 1137
5/10/09 at 11:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domingo View Post
Also Kirk uses Uhuras transmission as proof, but up until that point did we even really have a scene where she said "I found a strange transmission about Romulans" or something to that effect? I only remember lines about how good at breaking code she is. I'm a little confused about the "proof" of that scene.
It was mentioned before that ... don't remember exactly but I'm pretty sure it was brought up ...
Reply
post #398 of 1137
5/10/09 at 11:04pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post
It's kind of like asking why Night Owl has a winter Owl outfit at the ready, but it is pretty stupid. Also, Spock should totally be at the base at that point. What the fuck is he doing sitting around waiting in the cave? It looks pretty fucking cold on that planet.
That's not stupid at all. Besides the fact that we see a winter Nite Owl suit in his arsenal, it makes sense that a guy with his long career would have had that specialty stuff. Superheroes have that specialty stuff. It's part of the genre. Spock having a very nice winter coat that matches his color scheme isn't quite the same thing.
Reply
post #399 of 1137
5/10/09 at 11:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubWilliams View Post
But then how would he have known Kirk was going to be there?
I was going to say he knew from his past history but then ... well you know.

I don't know, maybe he was following the Enterprise somehow? Having Spock find Kirk makes a lot more sense and is less unintentionally comical than what we're given. But again, I wonder about the 1st script ... did Spock seek Kirk out or did it have this stupid "they find each other in a cave" moment.
Reply
post #400 of 1137
5/10/09 at 11:04pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
It was mentioned before that ... don't remember exactly but I'm pretty sure it was brought up ...
During the scene in the green girl's room. And then again when Kirk has his tongue swelled up. They really made it obvious about the Klingon fleet.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Focused Film Discussion
CHUD.com Community › Forums › THE MAIN SEWER › Focused Film Discussion › STAR TREK Post Release Discussion: The Reboot