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STAR TREK Post Release Discussion: The Reboot - Page 11

post #501 of 1137
5/11/09 at 1:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
So are we gonna talk about poor Winona Ryder at all? It seems fairly obvious that she had some scenes cut. A chat with schoolboy Spock, yes?
Why cast an actress and load her up with old-age makeup when you can just find someone of that age to cast? Having Wino do her Scissorhands old lady voice didn't quite cut it for me.
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post #502 of 1137
5/11/09 at 1:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
It's still dumb as shit to think there was no little shuttle with guns on all of Earth. Or on all of Vulcan, for that matter.
Didn't Nero capture Pike so he could get all of the defense codes relating to Earth?

But even taking that into account its still pretty dumb and my only complaint with the film.
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post #503 of 1137
5/11/09 at 1:46pm
Wow, I didn't even think of that. "Let’s leave our entire planet defenseless and have the students protect us!" Whoops---emergency. I guess we're on our own.
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post #504 of 1137
5/11/09 at 1:48pm
They do mention something along the lines of the entire fleet (or most of it) being busy in the laurentian something. But yeah, it's really dumb to have no planetary defenses or ships besides the newbies.
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post #505 of 1137
5/11/09 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Savage View Post
Didn't Nero capture Pike so he could get all of the defense codes relating to Earth?
yeah, but given that Pike was still alive in the end, you'll think that he never told Nero. I'm sure once he did tell him, he'll be killed.
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post #506 of 1137
5/11/09 at 1:50pm
An issue that's been bugging me: the design of the Romulan mining vessel really makes no sense. There was no defined 'bridge' to the vessel at all; just another room featuring random platforms and terminals. The final fight takes place over a series of asymmetrical causeways that completely lack anything resembling a safety railing. There's no good reason why ANYONE would design a craft like this.
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post #507 of 1137
5/11/09 at 1:52pm
To me the first problem is not the lack of safely railings, but the fact that it is a mining ship.

I just don't get why they made Nero a miner at all. Was it to justify have a big planetary drill?
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post #508 of 1137
5/11/09 at 1:56pm
PRobably.
But doesn't Spock prime call Nero one of the last Imperial Guards or something like that? Maybe Nero TOOK the mining ship and turned it into that evil thing to serve his needs. I don't really know. It's one of those things that we don't need explaining for.

Does the prequel Comic answer any of it?
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post #509 of 1137
5/11/09 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tati View Post
PRobably.
But doesn't Spock prime call Nero one of the last Imperial Guards or something like that? Maybe Nero TOOK the mining ship and turned it into that evil thing to serve his needs. I don't really know. It's one of those things that we don't need explaining for.

Does the prequel Comic answer any of it?
But Nero himself said he chose to be a miner to provide a living for his wife and child. I think he called it honorable work.
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post #510 of 1137
5/11/09 at 2:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tati View Post
PRobably.
But doesn't Spock prime call Nero one of the last Imperial Guards or something like that?
No.
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post #511 of 1137
5/11/09 at 2:01pm
My point is that the entire vessel, as designed, is extremely perilous for the crew to run and operate. It may look good on film, but it really makes no sense to have a 1000 foot drop in the middle of a vessel and then not have basic safety measures around it.

It's the same issue that I have with the design of the Death Star: why would you have these bottomless pits all over the place without any basic safety measures? They're only there for cinematic purposes. They're designed to be filmed, not to look functional.
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post #512 of 1137
5/11/09 at 2:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick View Post
yeah, but given that Pike was still alive in the end, you'll think that he never told Nero. I'm sure once he did tell him, he'll be killed.
Of course Pike told him. You are meant to assume that the slug made him talk. He's still alive because Nero may need him for something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
The final fight takes place over a series of asymmetrical causeways that completely lack anything resembling a safety railing. There's no good reason why ANYONE would design a craft like this.
Haven't you seen Galaxy Quest? It's to justify an exciting action sequence!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
I just don't get why they made Nero a miner at all. Was it to justify have a big planetary drill?
Yahtzee!
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post #513 of 1137
5/11/09 at 2:08pm
Re: Noise in Space. Meyers has complained that he wanted that in WoK but they wouldn't let him. It's also been the problem of explosions in space, but not a lot of filmmakers don't want some fire.

The excitement thing, My problem is that this is Star Trek. You have posters of the original crew in their new forms, you know who the crew are, even if you only have a passing pop culture awareness. For me there's a feeling that the film doesn't really start until all the players are in position and that doesn't happen until late in the game, and in a way, it's as if a film was titled The Three Muskateers and it ended with Athos saying to Porthos and Aramis "Hey, we should really muskateer together" and then they all agreed that they would. But not until the next film.
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post #514 of 1137
5/11/09 at 2:12pm
The prequel comic was dumber than the movie. Spock tries to help Nero defuse the pre-supernoval star after the Romulan Senate pooh-poohs Spock's warnings. Spock doesn't make it to the star in time, and Romulus is destroyed. The rest is TNG fan service.

It paints Nero as a noble family man turned madman in the tritest way possible: KILL THE FAMILY! Instead of giving him a meaningful reason to hate Spock - who was really the only one willing to work with him to avert the supernova - they just turn him into a crazy person. If they had presented Spock with a choice whereby he actively played a part in the destruction of Romulus, it might have worked out a little better in support of how angry Nero gets at the character, but they didn't.

The movie might be better without the backstory.

Edit: And to answer Tati's question, yes, Nero is a miner. We're meant to assume that the drill is his, although he gets the ship from some rogue Romulan resistance group.
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post #515 of 1137
5/11/09 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erix View Post
Haven't you seen Galaxy Quest? It's to justify an exciting action sequence!
[/I]
Exactly. It's already been lampooned for being ridiculous, so why repeat the error in any film thereafter?

OSHA would have a field day with that ship.
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post #516 of 1137
5/11/09 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
The movie might be better without the backstory.
Well ... I'm not sure. In the movie, you really don't know why Nero hates Spock so much. You can infer that he think Spock failed on purpose, but there's not much there to try to justify that point of view. I also don't know much about the Romulans ... so if there's some component of Vulcan hatred in there it's lost to the general public or casual Trek watcher.

Quote:
Edit: And to answer Tati's question, yes, Nero is a miner. We're meant to assume that the drill is his, although he gets the ship from some rogue Romulan resistance group.
I hate to ask but when does the ship acquire "Borg" technology?
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post #517 of 1137
5/11/09 at 2:23pm
Re: Nero knowing who Spock was. Isn't there an episode of TNG where Spock is Ambassador to the Romulan Empire and tries to reunite Romulus with Vulcan, or something? Wouldn't something like that make Spock one of the most instantly recognizable -- and blame worthy -- figures to the average Romulan? I'm not trying to defend it, just wondering if that might be why.
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post #518 of 1137
5/11/09 at 2:24pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
Re: Nero knowing who Spock was. Isn't there an episode of TNG where Spock is Ambassador to the Romulan Empire and tries to reunite Romulus with Vulcan, or something? Wouldn't something like that make Spock one of the most instantly recognizable -- and blame worthy -- figures to the average Romulan? I'm not trying to defend it, just wondering if that might be why.
I guess. You have to wonder why the Romulans - a warrior race that surely must have any number of ace pilots - would let a decrepit old Vulcan ambassador who has never been a pilot be the guy to undertake the life or death mission to save their planet.
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post #519 of 1137
5/11/09 at 2:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erix View Post
It could be. Or maybe the "favoritism" he's referring to is in regards to her being his student. You're probably right. But, being a teacher, I can relate to this situation (not necessarily selecting certain students for certain tasks even though I know they're the best for it) and I can assure you I've never banged one of my students. (I've wanted to. Yes. And I've come close, definitely. But I never have.) I guess a part of me wants to believe that Spock wouldn't be so unethical. But, fuck it, Uhura's hot.
I'm positive he's speaking about their relationship. When he responds to her, that slight hesitation before he answers her and the way his eyes dart away from her to look around, as if checking to see if anyone is watching/listening, says to me that he's talking about their relationship and not about her being a top student. Who would care if he showed favortism to his best student? She's the best, put her on the ship, no brainer. It's the intimate relationship that gave him pause when he was assigning her to the Farragut and not the Enterprise.
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post #520 of 1137
5/11/09 at 2:27pm
In the movie, you don't really know why Nero hates Spock. We're sort of told why Nero hates Spock in the book, but it's dumb. Why does he give a shit about Spock after the destruction of Romulus? And while it wouldn't assuage the grief of losing his family, the movie skirts the issue that Nero lives in a timeline WITH A FUCKING PERFECTLY FINE ROMULUS.

The ship gets the Borg technology from the Romulan group. I don't remember if they explain how the Romulans get it, but I don't think it's too important.
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post #521 of 1137
5/11/09 at 2:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
I'm now pretty sure that when they gave Quinto the line that Spock says in Star Trek VI (“When you have eliminated all which is possible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.”), they didn't realize that Nimoy was quoting/cribbing from Sherlock Holmes.
Nerd nitpick:

Spock actually says this in II. He might also say it in IV, but I know Khan pretty well.
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post #522 of 1137
5/11/09 at 2:33pm
Okay, this is some really ass-backwards reasoning for a plot point I don't really care that much about, but if the average Romulans hate/d Vulcans, and Spock (in the original timeline) is one of the more prominent Vulcans in their culture, maybe Nero's just a guy who likes to blame Spock for everything that goes wrong in his life. You know, like the Republicans do with the President.
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post #523 of 1137
5/11/09 at 2:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 View Post
I'm positive he's speaking about their relationship. ... It's the intimate relationship that gave him pause when he was assigning her to the Farragut and not the Enterprise.
You're right. I've come around on this issue. Obviously that's what's going on. It became apparent to me the second time I watched the film.
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post #524 of 1137
5/11/09 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aranion View Post
Nerd nitpick:

Spock actually says this in II. He might also say it in IV, but I know Khan pretty well.
Yeah, but it's definitely in VI, which is its most famous appearance, because of the whole "ancestor" thing.
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post #525 of 1137
5/11/09 at 3:14pm
And I'm pretty sure he doesn't say it in II.
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post #526 of 1137
5/11/09 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aranion View Post
Spock actually says this in II. He might also say it in IV, but I know Khan pretty well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spock in Star Trek VI and not in Star Trek II
An ancestor of mine maintained that when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. If we did not fire those torpedoes, another ship did.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102975/quotes
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post #527 of 1137
5/11/09 at 3:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte View Post
For me there's a feeling that the film doesn't really start until all the players are in position and that doesn't happen until late in the game, and in a way, it's as if a film was titled The Three Muskateers and it ended with Athos saying to Porthos and Aramis "Hey, we should really muskateer together" and then they all agreed that they would. But not until the next film.
That's my problem with having the movie close with the "Space... the final frontier" speech. It only makes sense to have that in there if you know the show. Nothing in the film supports the idea that Starfleet is primarily an exploratory organization. Didn't anyone else flinch when Pike called it an "armada"?

Oh, and as for the business of Enterprise going on the mission because the rest of the fleet is deployed elsewhere, that's pretty much the rationale in every one of the films.
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post #528 of 1137
5/11/09 at 3:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
Tell me why he's a uniform from STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE, which takes place like 25 years after this movie. That's the big question.
Because that's apparently an Admiral's uniform. I know this because Pike is an admiral and he was wearing one. Why does the Enterprise look tiled when that didn't happen until TMP, also 25 years after this movie?

These are not big questions. Relax and enjoy the show.
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post #529 of 1137
5/11/09 at 3:38pm
Yeah, if you're going to complain about uniforms you might as well complain about the ship looking too modern as opposed to a simplistic TV set from the 60s.
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post #530 of 1137
5/11/09 at 4:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
Oh, and as for the business of Enterprise going on the mission because the rest of the fleet is deployed elsewhere, that's pretty much the rationale in every one of the films.
No other ships available comes up as the starting point in TMP, Khan, Voyage Home (though dif crcumstances) and The Final Frontier.
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post #531 of 1137
5/11/09 at 4:23pm
True. In III they take Enterprise because Kirk isn't about to pick up his best bud driving just anything, and in VI it's because "only Nixon could go to China". Still, if I hear the phrase "You're the only ship in the quadrant" one more time...
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post #532 of 1137
5/11/09 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
Oh, and as for the business of Enterprise going on the mission because the rest of the fleet is deployed elsewhere, that's pretty much the rationale in every one of the films.


Well, I took it as the ships with the more experiences crews were out else where.

While Star Fleet could only send a handful of ships maned by cadets. Which expect for the Enterprise, got all blown to hell.
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post #533 of 1137
5/11/09 at 4:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
Nothing in the film supports the idea that Starfleet is primarily an exploratory organization. Didn't anyone else flinch when Pike called it an "armada"?
Doesn't he say something about it being an armada for peace and exploration?
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post #534 of 1137
5/11/09 at 4:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick View Post
Well, I took it as the ships with the more experiences crews were out else where.

While Star Fleet could only send a handful of ships maned by cadets. Which expect for the Enterprise, got all blown to hell.
Thing is, they were getting reports of a natural disaster on Vulcan. They were probably expecting to be doing simple search and rescue operations. It's only while they're on the way that Kirk convinces them it's something worse.
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post #535 of 1137
5/11/09 at 4:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Doesn't he say something about it being an armada for peace and exploration?
For some reason that makes me think of something like "A Clenched Fist of Joy and Merriment."

Am I wrong for thinking that 'armada' comes across as an aggressive word?
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post #536 of 1137
5/11/09 at 4:49pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Thing is, they were getting reports of a natural disaster on Vulcan. They were probably expecting to be doing simple search and rescue operations. It's only while they're on the way that Kirk convinces them it's something worse.
This also makes no sense. Vulcan has no ability to see a HUGE starship boring a hole in their planet? Come on. We could figure that out in 2009. They could have figured that out in 1966.
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post #537 of 1137
5/11/09 at 4:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
Didn't anyone else flinch when Pike called it an "armada"?
I thought Armada just meant a fleet of ships.

In fact, according to Dictionary.com

Quote:
1. Also called Invincible Armada, Spanish Armada. the fleet sent against England by Philip II of Spain in 1588. It was defeated by the English navy and later dispersed and wrecked by storms.
2. (lowercase) any fleet of warships.
3. (lowercase) a large group or force of vehicles, airplanes, etc.: an armada of transport trucks.
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post #538 of 1137
5/11/09 at 4:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
That's my problem with having the movie close with the "Space... the final frontier" speech. It only makes sense to have that in there if you know the show.
I was surprised that Pine didn't give the speech actually.
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post #539 of 1137
5/11/09 at 4:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
This also makes no sense. Vulcan has no ability to see a HUGE starship boring a hole in their planet? Come on. We could figure that out in 2009. They could have figured that out in 1966.
I forget what the Vulcan council or whatever (Spock's parents and other old dudes) were doing. Where they "monitoring" the situation, doing something? It looked like they were praying in front a light column ... not too clear what was going on there.

I know Spock said something about were they should be, but don't remember it well now.
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post #540 of 1137
5/11/09 at 5:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick View Post
Well, I took it as the ships with the more experiences crews were out else where.

While Star Fleet could only send a handful of ships maned by cadets. Which expect for the Enterprise, got all blown to hell.
Which raised the rather horrible issue that Green skinned Rachel Nichols got blown to hell.

Also:

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post #541 of 1137
5/11/09 at 5:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
Which raised the rather horrible issue that Green skinned Rachel Nichols got blown to hell.
*Takes deep breath as camera does closeup*

"NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!"

*Looks up into the sky as camera pans overhead and zooms out*


"NNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! !!"



But seriously, the green chick can GET IT. Yes indeed!
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post #542 of 1137
5/11/09 at 5:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobblox View Post
*Takes deep breath as camera does closeup*

"NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!"

*Looks up into the sky as camera pans overhead and zooms out*


"NNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! !!"



But seriously, the green chick can GET IT. Yes indeed!
I'm confused about the Starfleet assignments. ALL Starfleet cadets reported to the hangar after the Vulcan distress call, right? At least, Madea said all of them were to report. So why is it then that when the drill goes off in San Fran at the end, you see all these cadets running out of the school? I thought they were ALL gone. So if everyone didn't go, or if they all weren't assigned to one of those ships that was sent out to Vulcan, it's possible that the green girl is still alive.

Or I'm totally missing something.
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post #543 of 1137
5/11/09 at 5:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 View Post
I'm confused about the Starfleet assignments. ALL Starfleet cadets reported to the hangar after the Vulcan distress call, right? At least, Madea said all of them were to report. So why is it then that when the drill goes off in San Fran at the end, you see all these cadets running out of the school? I thought they were ALL gone. So if everyone didn't go, or if they all weren't assigned to one of those ships that was sent out to Vulcan, it's possible that the green girl is still alive.

Or I'm totally missing something.
Nope, we get an scene of her being assigned to one of the ships, she smiles at Uhura, then she leaves to her shuttle...while Uhura saves herself by virtue of being teacher's pet.
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post #544 of 1137
5/11/09 at 5:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 View Post
I'm confused about the Starfleet assignments. ALL Starfleet cadets reported to the hangar after the Vulcan distress call, right? At least, Madea said all of them were to report. So why is it then that when the drill goes off in San Fran at the end, you see all these cadets running out of the school? I thought they were ALL gone. So if everyone didn't go, or if they all weren't assigned to one of those ships that was sent out to Vulcan, it's possible that the green girl is still alive.

Or I'm totally missing something.
I thought about that too. The only thing I could think of was that Admiral Madea was only addressing the Senior Class at the Academy. All the cadets seen later were under-classmen.

Unless she got to an escape pod...Orion Chick is done like dinner.
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post #545 of 1137
5/11/09 at 5:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 View Post
I'm confused about the Starfleet assignments. ALL Starfleet cadets reported to the hangar after the Vulcan distress call, right? At least, Madea said all of them were to report. So why is it then that when the drill goes off in San Fran at the end, you see all these cadets running out of the school? I thought they were ALL gone. So if everyone didn't go, or if they all weren't assigned to one of those ships that was sent out to Vulcan, it's possible that the green girl is still alive.

Or I'm totally missing something.
I'm just speculating, but I agree with what the guy above me said -- maybe the people in the hall were part of Kirk's graduating class (seniors or last years or whatever)? Or that the cadets you saw on the lawn were first/second years who weren't allowed on the mission because of, I don't know, safety?
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post #546 of 1137
5/11/09 at 5:56pm
Is there a way to tell who is an underclassmen, because to me, all their red cadet uniforms look identical.
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post #547 of 1137
5/11/09 at 6:03pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul755 View Post
I thought about that too. The only thing I could think of was that Admiral Madea was only addressing the Senior Class at the Academy. All the cadets seen later were under-classmen.

Unless she got to an escape pod...Orion Chick is done like dinner.
I'm pretty sure she's in the final assembly. This is just them reusing the same extras and doing the two scenes on the same days.
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post #548 of 1137
5/11/09 at 6:06pm
I wonder if the future technology used in the drill that fell to Earth will cause some future weapons or anything else to be built before their time.

The geek in me wonders how useful the giant megabeam drill would be against a ship with shields.

By the way, is it just me or do the shields in the new Trek seem pretty useless? I can't remember how the shields in the original series worked... whether it made the skin of the ship stronger or if it was an energy bubble like in the later Next Generation era.

It makes it a lot cooler to see the ship itself actually taking impact of weaponry though, rather than a shield bubble being hit and the crew on the bridge swaying and seeing consoles explode or catch fire.
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post #549 of 1137
5/11/09 at 6:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Doesn't he say something about it being an armada for peace and exploration?
He calls it a "peacekeeping armada." Vaguely ominous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
For some reason that makes me think of something like "A Clenched Fist of Joy and Merriment."

Am I wrong for thinking that 'armada' comes across as an aggressive word?
I don't have the etymology at hand, but it does suggest being armed, or at least armored.
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post #550 of 1137
5/11/09 at 6:22pm
The shields in the original series worked until it was dramatically appropriate for them not to.
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