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Freddy Vs. Jason?????

post #1 of 54
7/23/03 at 5:44am
Thread Starter 
OK, was browsing a page about Linux games and the popup was an ad for this movie, coming out in August. WTF? I'd never heard of it before, do you guys here know anything about this? It sounds like a dumb, dumb, premise for a movie...

Astro
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post #2 of 54
7/23/03 at 6:21am
umm, yeah
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post #3 of 54
7/23/03 at 6:22am
Hey Astro, welcome to the board ...

... This Freddy vs Jason thing has been discussed here, from the "controversy" surrounding Kane Hodder's absence from the film to the trailer that was released awhile back ...

blah blah blah

If you ask me, this is a pathetic idea for a film, an embarassment to the entire genre ...
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post #4 of 54
7/23/03 at 6:55am
Thread Starter 
ok, so it's not just me then.

I ask: WHY OH WHY do they take perfectly decent slasher flicks, whose premise is usually "unbeatable monster versus hapless bad acting teens" and take the "logic" leap of thinking EVEN BETTER would be "unbeatable monster vs unbeatable monster"? Who are we supposed to root for or wish certain death upon? the monster with the better wisecrack remarks??

Oh, and thanks for the welcome. I promise I'm not that bitter. I just came back to horror after a few years absence from the genre (28DL brought me back) and seeing this was quite a shock. :/
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post #5 of 54
7/23/03 at 7:11am
Quote:
Astromarine:
Who are we supposed to root for or wish certain death upon? the monster with the better wisecrack remarks ??
How true ... To this day, the original FRIDAY THE 13TH terrifies me ( thank you Betsy Palmer ) and to think that this is what is has come to, well, it is pretty sad ...

Watching F vs J will probably be no different than seeing LENO vs LETTERMAN
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post #6 of 54
7/23/03 at 8:54am
Thread Starter 
Wow, dude, I'm sorry but that was one hell of a patronizing post. FYI, I'm 27. I grew up on Elm and 13. The thing is, while I wouldn't mind intelligently made sequels for both those movies being done until the year 5 thousand, I just don't get *THIS* movie. Both the franchises were about horrible things being done to kids by those two guys, what the HELL will the plot have to be to have them fight? Fighting over their food? One becoming a good guy? Territorial pissing? They don't even live in the same plane of existence. Slasher movies are campy and cool, but this movie is an episode of Celebrity Deathmatch!
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post #7 of 54
7/23/03 at 9:10am
Well I on the other hand quite intrigue by this movie, and I've got to say that I'll be there the day it opens.

2 horror icons of the 80's battling out, I mean come on, this is as old as that whole Predator Vs Alien thing...

The only thing that really irks me is that Kane isn't there? What the hell were they thinking is all I can say?

Slasher for slasher it looks quite campy and fun, and this is one for the fans and nothing else, so I will take a gander.

But I ask you how can any true fans on the 80's slasher not see this?

Next Freddy Vs Jason Vs M. Myers...

Cheers!

As long as there is cheesy dialogue, stupid teens, gratuitous bobbies shoot, blood, gore, bad language, bad on liners, a little scare here and there, a nice decapitation and a machete I’ll be happy. If you expect more than this, well though luck, go back to the original material and that’s what is all about folks.

The only thing that truly sucks is the fact that Kane ain't there.
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post #8 of 54
7/23/03 at 9:21am
Thread Starter 
Oh, I'll probably see it as well, if for nothing else because I like popcorn. I wasn't exactly asking for a boycott, it's just that it looked a bit blockbustery in feel (not mainstream appeal), which is worrying. I'll go and watch, but if one of those guys throws a flying kick, bullet time, or gun fu I'm outta there faster than you can say "the matrix". The trailer didn't have much of that, though. Still, I supposed I *am* a bit irked about taking these two guys out of their usual medium (especially fred. Jason is in his element, but an Elm movie without teens being terrorized in dreams is like a porn movie without breasts).

Oh, and BTW, Freddy will SO make Jason his bitch. wink
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post #9 of 54
7/23/03 at 9:35am
Quote:
Astromarine:
Oh, and BTW, Freddy will SO make Jason his bitch. wink
That just ain't gonna happen.

Freddy might have the brains, but my boy Jason as got the brawn, the invulnerability factor and the machete.

So Freddy might win in his dreams but that's about it.

Cheers!

And I agree, what the hell is Freddy doing there god knows? Jason well why not, as long as there teens having sex why not kill them?

But like you said this is more of a celebrity boxing match for the fans.
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post #10 of 54
7/23/03 at 9:41am
Thread Starter 
Brawn: not any more. Casting choices geared to even out the guys, remember? wink

Invulnerability factor: So does Freddy. well, he gets blown up a lot, but he always seems to come back, now don't he?

Machete: yeah, his is bigger, but Freddy has more of em. wink

Look, just face the facts: Jason has no style, no finesse. NO FRIGGIN SUPERPOWAS.

So, in summation: Freddy won't win in his dreams. He's win in *Jason's*

Mask-boy is *so* wormfood.

Aaah, nothing like an oldstyle geekout while listening to Cypress Hill.
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post #11 of 54
7/23/03 at 9:48am
Maybe they could make a UFC horror mathup with all the humanoid horror icons.

Jason
Freddy
Micheal Myers
The Creeper
Pin Head
TCM guy
Predator
Alien
A Zombie (From any of the Romero movies)
A Zombie (From Return of the living dead)
The Master (From Salems lot)
Werewolf (From American Werewolf in London)
Werewolf (From The Howling)
etc...

The Host could be Elvira ^_^

ok or maybe not...

Cheers!
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post #12 of 54
7/23/03 at 9:52am
Thread Starter 
Putting Pinhead in there is no fair. I wanna see Battle Royale. Pinhead would recruit most of those for Cenobytes and kill the rest in like 0.3 seconds. Then the Cenos would torture Elvira for eternity, maybe with some pointers from the girl from Audition...

...

On the other hand, leave Pinhead in there. He's fiiine
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post #13 of 54
7/23/03 at 10:00am
Quote:
Astromarine:
So, in summation: Freddy won't win in his dreams. He's win in *Jason's*

Mask-boy is *so* wormfood.

Aaah, nothing like an oldstyle geekout while listening to Cypress Hill.
Ah but lest you forget a couple of important factors in this fight

One, Jason looks more like an undead spectre of vengeance, and I don't think those dream a lot, so Freddy power would be very limited, if not useless.

Two, Freddy's only true power is fear, even if my mate Jason would dream which seems more than unlikely, he is fearless, therefore pretty much immune to the frightful terrorising dreams inflicted by Freddy.

Three, Aren’t Freddy's powers limited to children of the parents that burnt him at that school?

Four, How could either one really be affected by one another, Freddy is a dream therefore immaterial, and Jason is a very material being?

I guess it'll be a draw, eh!

Well if Freddy were corporeal, my mate big J. would certainly puree him.

Cheers!
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post #14 of 54
7/23/03 at 11:35am
Quote:
Astromarine:
Brawn: not any more. Casting choices geared to even out the guys, remember? wink
Okay that's twice you've said that and it's driving me nuts!

The new guy they picked to play Jason IS NOT CLOSER TO ENGLUDND'S SIZE!!!!!

In fact, he's about 2 inches taller than Hodder, and they have him in platform shoes in the movie! That's about as far from Englund's size you can get witout casting Manute Bol as Jason!

There was much shadier stuff going on behind the non-casting of Kane Hodder that I think most people will admit to themselves.
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post #15 of 54
7/23/03 at 11:44am
Thread Starter 
For the record, the first time I said that is what you quoted. It's also the *only* time. And I did it because, well, I read it here. As for the shady stuff, what do you think it was? I know crap about the movie, this whole thread is because I found out the movie today, remember?
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post #16 of 54
7/23/03 at 11:53am
Well there's a few different theories.

One (and this is the one I subscribe too) is the money thing. There are laws in Canada that if you cast a Canadian in one of the two lead roles of your film than the Canadian government will pay large amounts of your budget for you, as well as give you deals on location costs. This is partly why EVERY frigging movie is being shot in Canada now adays. So by not hiring Hodder, and hiring Kirzinger (a native Canuck) the production is entitled to that money.

The "poetic eyes" thing (a studio rumor, and I think complete bullshit) this was an early rumor, saying that the film was going for a sort of "phantom of the opera" type thing with Jason and they wanted somebody with "sad, expressive eyes" and they said Hodder just didn't have that. Complete shit.

The "closer to size" theory. Also obviously bullshit considering that Kirzinger is taller and they have him in platform shoes. Yu himself has said that he always thought of Jason as "larger than life" so he claims he wanted someone bigger than Kane (although, the height difference is minimal and could have easily been made up with riser shoes).

Finally, I recently interviewed Jason X screenwriter Todd Farmer for my website, and I got him talking about the subject, he was very pissed off and said he feels that it was their way of separating themselves from the previous 'Friday the 13th' sequels. Just a theory, but the way he presents it sounds credible.

And for the record...I am very much looking forward to this flick, mainly because in my early horror loving days I was weaned on 80's slashers.

And Jason will kick Freddy's ass.
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post #17 of 54
7/23/03 at 11:59am
I actually thought it was a pretty good idea - At least it's much better than each of them having their own sequels. It just seems to me like a film for fans and nothing more - plus its pretty gory by some accounts so that always bodes well.
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post #18 of 54
7/23/03 at 12:04pm
It's hilarious that people think this movie is degrading to these characters. Freddy and jason both lost their steam as scary slashers over 15 years ago. They are already jokes. Why not have some fun with them now instead of grinding out another derivitive Elm Street or Ft13 sequel?
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post #19 of 54
7/23/03 at 12:50pm
Thread Starter 
I dunno really. I'm not saying the movie is degrading to the *characters* at all. My first reaction to seeing the name of the movie on a popup ad in an unrelated website (implying at least *some* blockbusterish projection) was just of shock. Hell, I don't believe any of those movies of their sequels would stand up if I saw them today, except as comedies, so I'm not on some kind of "artistic integrity" high horse. it's just... the main thing going for fans of a series like this is, I believe, the comfort of familiarity, nostalgia, etc. I don't think this movie will do very well in this respect, because frankly new viewers couldn't care less and old fans will see something missing. I'm mainly worried by Freddy. As I said previously, Elm worked in a twisted humor kind of way, of seeing teens suffering poetic justice in the darkest, funniest way through a maniac wisecracking killer in their dreams (you just can't make this stuff up any more. Aaah, the old days). This movie seems like having very little of a Freddy movie. I didn't follow 13 so closely (because Jason is a wuss next to Freddy, Hellboy. That's why) but I expect something of them will also be lost, because how can you keep the aura of silent badass juggernaut if the guy, instead of mowing teens down left and right, is failing to kill one guy over and over?

I will, as I said, see the movie anyway, and enjoy it if at all possible. But those guys will, I suspect, not be the nightmares of my childhood or even the campy heroes of my youth. They'll be wire-fighting slightly-more-realistic-than-claymation Celebrity Deathmatch action figures.
Bleacht.

Even though, Hellboy, one of the WFSMRTCCDACs will be much cooler than the other, because his hat is much cooler than a stupid Hockey mask.
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post #20 of 54
7/23/03 at 12:54pm
Since Freddy was pretty much disgraced by his own series (saved by Craven in "New Nightmare"), I don't know how you could be worried about him in this. He might not be scarier than the Fred we got in Craven's last installment, but I bet he'll be less cartoonish than we got in Elm Streets 4, 5, and especially 6.
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post #21 of 54
7/23/03 at 12:58pm
I do believe there is some teenaged canon fodder for Freddy and Jason to warm up on before the main event. I think it will try to appeal to the old fanbase as well as new viewers only vaguely familiar with the characters.
I'm expecting a rip-roarin' good time. See you on opening day.
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post #22 of 54
7/23/03 at 1:21pm
****SPOILERS (I GUESS)****

Not sure if this could be classed as a spoiler, as it's nothing that hasn't been mentioned before, but just in case...

Anyway. From what I know (and I interviewed Robert Englund about it back in March), Freddy and Jason team up before they fight each other. This allows for the prerequisite teen murderlising - in particular a massacre at an open air rave where Jason decimates dozens of people. Freddy is the manipulator, Jason is his unwitting muscle. Then Jason turns on Freddy, and all hell breaks loose. It's not just Freddy and Jason scrapping for 90 minutes.

Personally, I think it sounds stupid cool, and Ronny Yu in the directors chair reassures me that this will be seriously gory.
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post #23 of 54
7/23/03 at 1:25pm
This movie's gonna rock. It's gonna be AWESOME. I can't wait!!!

Oh, and, Freddy rules
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post #24 of 54
7/23/03 at 1:31pm
And it's shot by Fred Murphy who did Q: The Winged Serpent,The Mothman Prophecies and Stir Of Echoes so it'll look pretty snazzy n'all.

I can't for life of me think why anyone into these characters wouldn't find this a riot. You still have the original films. Look at it as a celebration of the stature of these guys.
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post #25 of 54
7/23/03 at 1:39pm
Thread Starter 
OK, that rave scene does sound pretty cool...

Aww, screw it. It's starting to sound like I'll enjoy this. Game on.

And Freddy using Jason as his puppet is only natural. Just face it, hockeyface is doomed. Freddy will have him running to his mama (hehehe)

Also, it's good to see other people enjoyed New Nightmare. Is the opinion common, or do people usually hate it? I've been out of the circles WAY too long.
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post #26 of 54
7/23/03 at 1:50pm
I liked New Nightmare a lot, or at least the concept.

In the end I always feel a bit disappointed, but it most definitely has it's moments.

Although I hated the new glove and the gay leather pants, I thought Freddy was very bad ass.

The ending though, man did that suck.

I think a lot of people feel the same as me. Decent flick, gave Freddy some respect back, but ultimately could have been much better.
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post #27 of 54
7/23/03 at 1:54pm
I think this is gonna be a see the 11pm showing after intoxicating myself in the bar at texas station
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post #28 of 54
7/23/03 at 1:59pm
Quote:
grew up on Elm and 13. The thing is, while I wouldn't mind intelligently made sequels for both those movies
Dude your looking in the wrong freaking genre!

For those of us who grew up reading Fangoria and seeing all of the Nightmare and Friday films in the theater multiple times, this is a fucking gift from the gods!

This is a film I have been waiting for more then ten years and I hope to see gore and guts and stupid jokes and kids getting jacked cause they either fucking or taking Drugs or sleeping! I dont expect to see an intelligent horror film this is a Freddy AND Jason film so you should know what to expect!
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post #29 of 54
7/23/03 at 2:01pm
Zombie did you go to the Press event here???

I might have 2 extra passes for the June 30th premier would you be intrested?
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post #30 of 54
7/23/03 at 2:41pm
It can't be any worse than Jason X.
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post #31 of 54
7/23/03 at 3:29pm
Thread Starter 
which is a funny comment because I just got home after passing by the DVD store after work and holding a copy of Jason X in my hand and thinking about buying it. Glad I didn't then wink

I got 13 Ghosts instead. Will it be worth it?

as for the "intelligently made sequels" bit, just forget I said it. As I said, I just got back into horror, and it's true that I preferred Rosemary and The Omen-style flicks back then (and Coffin Joe) to slashers, even though Elm was the first ever horror movie I watched. It took me this thread to get the pretentiousness cork out of my ass. That post is just about the last time you'll see me expecting great cinema from horror slashers. wink

Astro
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post #32 of 54
7/23/03 at 3:35pm
Here Here!

And for the record, IMO Jason X is better than 13 Ghosts. The difference? Jason X is lame and cheesy and knows it, and as a result is fun as hell.

13 Ghosts (the remake right?) is filled with every derivitive that the same lame ghost stories of the mid 90's had, and they even add in an annoying rapper. The innovative ghosts are the only good quality about this movie that is otherwise an insulting piece of shit.

The difference is that Jason X knows what it is.
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post #33 of 54
7/23/03 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Astromarine:
It took me this thread to get the pretentiousness cork out of my ass.
Send that on over here will ya? I need that for a second......thanks.

Quote:
Astromarine:

I got 13 Ghosts instead. Will it be worth it?
No. Crappy movie with a one cool moment and about three cool ghosts that are shamefully underused. And one groaner of an ending.

I'd have picked up Jason X simply because it doesn't pretend to be anything other than what it is.

Okay I'm done with this thing... who else wants it?
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post #34 of 54
7/23/03 at 7:10pm
I would most certainly be interested
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post #35 of 54
7/23/03 at 7:57pm
Thread Starter 
God, that ending WAS bad. I kinda liked the basic premise, and the house and ghosts were WAY cool, but for a movie that doesn't have enough people to kill (2 deaths in a horror movie with 12 bad guys? GAH) I was expecting at *least* some kind of cool mystical "subvert the rules" ending, or *something*. Instead, we get a guy timing his jump right and a girl that everyone forgot about turning off a machine. God, save us from unimaginative scripts.

It was entertaining enough, shame that it was completely, utterly spoiled by the last 5 minutes.
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post #36 of 54
7/23/03 at 9:46pm
First up, before i get intoit, i do wanna say that I will be going to see this movie because my curiosity is slighhtly piqued (sp?) and i will go and see any horror movie that is released in theaters, even if its Beverly Hills Leprechaun (don't question it, i just do...can't be explained rea;ly) HOWEVER-HOWEVER-i truly thinkthis movie will suck pickled penguin peckers. I have also grown up on the two series, seen the majority both offered up in the sequels at the theater, love the two characters (though sorry kids, Freddy comes up short against Jason in this fanboys opinion), own them all on DVD. But Never ever have i been anxious for this matchup to take place. Seems like i heard the first whispered rumors when New Line acquired therights to The jason franchise (or whatever) even before Goes To Hell came out in theaters and have thought it a horrid idea even back then when i was so unwise in the ways of thworld (nothings changed right?) I was the first one (and only one if i recall) to scream BULLSHIT at the end of Goes to hell (which BTW ruined the whole experience of that movie for me). I think it was Hellboy who early posted why this was wrong (the whole power in dreams, dead don't dream bit0 and I couldn't agree more. This movie is gonna be bad....
But, just so that no one accuses me of having my head up my ass, I do plan on going to see it. I will give a shot. I just go in withthe lowest of expectations possible.
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post #37 of 54
7/24/03 at 9:56am
...cough...cough... That's Captain HellSpawn, mate.

Nah... HellSpawn will do fine.

HellBoy is a whole different thing.

Cheers!

Edited to state that: "Jason is going to win this thing hands down".

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post #38 of 54
7/24/03 at 10:01am
Can't wait for this. I'd like to see Freddy win personally, although I do like Jason, although I'd like to have seen CJ Graham playing him.

In any case, I'll be there on opening day.
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post #39 of 54
7/24/03 at 10:14am
Astromarine-
Since your gatting back into the swing of things, might I suggest some other movies you'd probably enjoy.
Dog Soldiers
The Ring (either the Japanese or American version)
The Sixth Sense
Cemetary Man (you may need to reinsert your pretention cork for this)
The Devil's Backbone
Blade 1&2 (more action than horror, but it has vampires)
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post #40 of 54
7/24/03 at 10:30am
Thread Starter 
Saw Blade 1, not 2 though. How does it compare?

Sixth Sense I saw, it was a cool movie and no, I didn't see it coming.

Devil's Backbone... Just don't get me started. I had it in my hands yesterday, along with Jason X and 13 Ghosts. It was no contest, of course, until I noticed it was in Spanish with German subtitles only. I understand spanish quite a bit, but not enough to fully enjoy a movie. The same happened with Brotherhood of the Wolf.

The Ring, Audition, and Battle Royale are on my shopping list at Amazon

Cemetery Man and Dog Soldiers I never heard about. Care to elaborate?
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post #41 of 54
7/24/03 at 10:34am
Thread Starter 
Hellspawn: I know It was just a continuation of the WWF-style banter. Like I call that wuss Jason Mask-boy.

WTH is Hellboy? I don't follow comics. I gather it's good?
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post #42 of 54
7/24/03 at 10:35am
[QB]Saw Blade 1, not 2 though. How does it compare?

It's okay, but I'm one of the only people that think it's a big step down from the original.

Devil's Backbone... Just don't get me started. I had it in my hands yesterday, along with Jason X and 13 Ghosts. It was no contest, of course, until I noticed it was in Spanish with German subtitles only. I understand spanish quite a bit, but not enough to fully enjoy a movie. The same happened with Brotherhood of the Wolf.

Where do you live? It's definitely available with English subtitles.

Cemetery Man and Dog Soldiers I never heard about. Care to elaborate?

Cemetary Man aka Dellamorte Dellamore is an Italian film which is pretty hard to find, although it's available in Italy, Germany and I think Spain. Although there's rumours it's being released in the US this year.

Dog Soldiers is a fantastic UK werewolf movie, sort of a horror comedy, but it certainly doesn't skimp on the horror. It's worth tracking down.
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post #43 of 54
7/24/03 at 10:39am
Thread Starter 
I live in Switzerland. I know it's probably findable, but only online. Not on the crappy stores one can find here in lovely Baden. Maybe Zurich has some specialty stores...
Yesterday I just spent the day shooting the breeze over just exactly HOW MUCH my man Freddy will knock Jason's teeth in (a lot, BTW) instead of working, so I felt like watching *something* when I left for home.
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post #44 of 54
7/24/03 at 10:40am
Blade 2 has more over the top gore. It felt just a bit darker.
Dog Soldiers is like "Aliens" with werewolves. A low budget flick about a group of british soldiers trapped in the woods one night with a vicious pack of werewolves. Cool werewolf costumes remeniscent of The Howling.
Cemetary Man- Two parts quirky zombie flick, one part arthouse movie. Rupert Everett is a caretaker in a cemetary where the dead come back from their graves. His job is to dispatch them again when they rise up from the ground. That's just the set-up. Things get stranger as the story progresses.
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post #45 of 54
7/24/03 at 11:01am
FvJ will be a better pop corn flick than T3

/puts on helmet
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post #46 of 54
7/24/03 at 1:03pm
Zombie check your PM's!
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post #47 of 54
7/24/03 at 1:30pm
check your email fool!!!!
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post #48 of 54
7/24/03 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Astromarine:
Hellspawn: I know It was just a continuation of the WWF-style banter. Like I call that wuss Jason Mask-boy.

WTH is Hellboy? I don't follow comics. I gather it's good?
Unfortunately, I know of HellBoy, but to be honest I do not know his story and I have not followed anything concerning HellBoy.

Yes I do bow my head in terrible shame.

Here the official movie site, mate.

<a href="http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/hellboy/hellsite/" target="_blank">http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/hellboy/hellsite/</a>

I am certain the knowledgeable people of the corner might be better teachers than I, on the HellBoy subject.

Cheers!
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post #49 of 54
7/24/03 at 9:05pm
Awwww shit!! Sorry 'bout that Hellboy slip.
(holds hand out for a slap across the knockles with a ruler)
(well at least i know someone is reading my posts)
Can ya ever forgive me Cap'n H-E-L-L-S-P-A-W-N??
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post #50 of 54
7/24/03 at 9:10pm
hey Fett (did i get his name right or fuck up another)(grin)I'm just curious-why CJ? Was it his look, build, what he brought to the "character"? Don't really remember much special about his outing except for one of the better Jason looks once unmasked...like i said, just curious.
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