or Connect
CHUD.com Community › Forums › THE MAIN SEWER › Focused Film Discussion › TERMINATOR SALVATION Post Release
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

TERMINATOR SALVATION Post Release - Page 3

post #101 of 514
I do wish we'd seen the bit where Kyle buries Marcus.
post #102 of 514
I'm sure I wasn't paying enough attention but if they blew up Skynet at the end, why is the war still going on?

Okay, so a post-global wireless technology Skynet can likely transmit itself around to wherever it wants or it might have a bazillion backup copies of itself and they can keep this cow running for another hundred sequels with those excuses. But at least give me an onscreen indication if that's the case.
post #103 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMR View Post
I'm sure I wasn't paying enough attention but if they blew up Skynet at the end, why is the war still going on?
Closing dialogue from the movie:

Quote:
There is a storm on the horizon.
A time of hardship and pain.
This battle has been won,
but the war against the machines rages on.
Skynet’s global network remains strong,
but we will not quit until all of it is destroyed.

This is John Connor.
There is no fate but what we make.
So I guess they have other headquarters around the world.
post #104 of 514
It's a sad day when Edward Furlong makes a more interesting John Connor than Christian Bale. I'm not sure what I was looking for in the character -- a more leader-like Snake Plissken, a "making things up as I go" Indiana Jones-type, etc -- but I didn't really see it in Bale. Maybe it's just me, but I'd think the guy would have a slightly dark sense of humor about "his destiny."

All I know is John Connor's sexuality is pretty amusing -- I mean, if we count the movies and the TV series, he's sent his Dad back in time to do his Mom, he probably didn't lose his virginity until an off-camera lonely night with robo-Summer Glau, and he only ended up with his wife because the T-800 abducted her, the world ended, and he was, for all intents and purposes, the last man on earth.

As for Terminator Salvation, I didn't hate the movie and enjoyed parts of it, but the last act felt so perfunctory and rushed that I couldn't quite recommend the film. The best scenes were Kyle-Star-Marcus stuff (especially in tandem with the action that surrounded it). The comically sped-up Blair-Marcus romantic angle actually had some potential. I liked Sam Worthington a lot despite, well, a lot of things, and it's a shame they disposed of his character at the end.

I don't think the original ending would've worked very well, but what we got wasn't exactly Hamlet either.
post #105 of 514
What a retarded movie. It's still worth seeing once on the big screen because McG is a pretty fantastic action director.

Bale yelling at the little girl killed me. As did the Raising Arizona scene. Or Paul Haggis' brilliant dialogue in the jail cell in the beginning.
post #106 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post
I do wish we'd seen the bit where Kyle buries Marcus.
Man, they set that up in the most obvious way possible, and then it never happens. Without Connor's ADR at the end, it seems like the war is over. This is one movie that needed a cliffhanger ending or a big WTF moment.
post #107 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Name_user View Post
Imagine McG's frustration. Fans were in uproar with the original ending. He takes it out, fans are in uproar wanting it back in.
Don't listen to fans or the internet.
post #108 of 514
I didn't like how easily and quickly Connor infiltrated Skynet. That was pretty lame. Would've been epic to see him have to battle a bunch of terminators and work hard to get into Skynet. It seems like A LOT of the movie was left on the cutting room floor. Maybe McG was telling the truth when he said the DVD/Blu-Ray will have 30-40 minutes of additional footage.
post #109 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhuman View Post
I didn't like how easily and quickly Connor infiltrated Skynet.
Wasn't that kind of the point, though? Skynet used Marcus to bait Connor into Skynet.

Now, the rest of the Resistance... how the hell did they get in and out so easily? That was the movie's chance to really unleash on the future war. All of Connor's people entering Skynet central, hundreds of T-600s, HKs, all-out war. That could have been a ton of fun... and instead they land, grab John, and run.
post #110 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post
Wasn't that kind of the point, though? Skynet used Marcus to bait Connor into Skynet.
Valid point, but why don't they just have a bunch of machines ready to kill him the instant he enters the premises?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post
Now, the rest of the Resistance... how the hell did they get in and out so easily? That was the movie's chance to really unleash on the future war. All of Connor's people entering Skynet central, hundreds of T-600s, HKs, all-out war. That could have been a ton of fun... and instead they land, grab John, and run.
Precisely. That would've been epic.
post #111 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post
Wasn't that kind of the point, though? Skynet used Marcus to bait Connor into Skynet.
That's true, but it also makes no fucking sense. They could just kill Kyle Reese and the movie's over. John Connor's never born. But if that's not the case, why is John Connor going to all that effort to save him?
post #112 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Bateman View Post
That's true, but it also makes no fucking sense. They could just kill Kyle Reese and the movie's over. John Connor's never born. But if that's not the case, why is John Connor going to all that effort to save him?
This too. Some bad, bad decisions in the writing.
post #113 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhuman View Post
This too. Some bad, bad decisions in the writing.
John Connor is basically on a suicide mission to save Kyle Reese. I can't wrap my head around that. What's the point in saving him if you're just going to die in the process?
post #114 of 514
This movie seems to be confused about how this works, too. If Kyle gets killed it's not like John just blinks out of existence.
post #115 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Bateman View Post
That's true, but it also makes no fucking sense. They could just kill Kyle Reese and the movie's over. John Connor's never born. But if that's not the case, why is John Connor going to all that effort to save him?
I would guess that Skynet is playing it safe. They don't know if they can change the past or not, so luring John Connor to his death before he becomes the big resistance leader is a safe plan. I mean, what if they did kill Kyle and nothing happened? As it is, the Kyle Reese who fathered John Connor is NOT the same Kyle Reese who is in this movie, since the averting of Judgment Day totally changed the future.
post #116 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
I would guess that Skynet is playing it safe. They don't know if they can change the past or not, so luring John Connor to his death before he becomes the big resistance leader is a safe plan. I mean, what if they did kill Kyle and nothing happened? As it is, the Kyle Reese who fathered John Connor is NOT the same Kyle Reese who is in this movie, since the averting of Judgment Day totally changed the future.
But if that's the case, then John Connor should just sit in a bunker somewhere and ride this out. Skynet seems to be all knowing. They don't seem to be playing it safe. They're actually playing it retarded by giving Marcus the ability to make decisions on his own.

ETA: The whole subplot with the signal makes my brain hurt even more.
post #117 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Bateman View Post
John Connor is basically on a suicide mission to save Kyle Reese. I can't wrap my head around that. What's the point in saving him if you're just going to die in the process?
I guess the argument would be (from John's understanding of time travel, not necessarily the reality of time travel) is that leaving Kyle to die is a 100% chance of John Connor dying, while rescuing him is an 80% chance of dying. He can either choose to be erased or to die.

And from his POV, maybe being erased is WORSE because of the ways it changes the events of the war to date.
post #118 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Bateman View Post
But if that's the case, then John Connor should just sit in a bunker somewhere and ride this out. Skynet seems to be all knowing. They don't seem to be playing it safe. They're actually playing it retarded by giving Marcus the ability to make decisions on his own.

ETA: The whole subplot with the signal makes my brain hurt even more.
Well, this is my big problem with the movie, one that could be fixed with some dialogue changes. Just have Marcus be his own agent, not programmed to do anything. He is accidentally awoken in the attack on that base, and he just does what he thinks he should do.

He's already a variable in time, since there's no way the original future ever included him, as he was created in 2003, six years after the original Judgment Day.
post #119 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
I guess the argument would be (from John's understanding of time travel, not necessarily the reality of time travel) is that leaving Kyle to die is a 100% chance of John Connor dying, while rescuing him is an 80% chance of dying. He can either choose to be erased or to die.

And from his POV, maybe being erased is WORSE because of the ways it changes the events of the war to date.
The biggest problem with that theory is this movie takes place before the major conflict. This seems to be the early stages, before we've gone into all out future war. He knows he needs to be alive for what's to come.

By the way, making this film Future War Begins, is a lot less dramatic and interesting.
post #120 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
He's already a variable in time, since there's no way the original future ever included him, as he was created in 2003, six years after the original Judgment Day.
I honestly have no idea why they started the movie and his character's journey in 2003. Isn't it more dramatic to have it be before judgement day? Maybe I'm just stupid.
post #121 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Bateman View Post
The biggest problem with that theory is this movie takes place before the major conflict. This seems to be the early stages, before we've gone into all out future war. He knows he needs to be alive for what's to come.

By the way, making this film Future War Begins, is a lot less dramatic and interesting.
He does know that, but again, maybe he figures the fact that he ever existed will be better for the future war than his utter removal from the time stream.

The ending of the movie ruins the whole thing. You want your film to feel like it's complete, but this feels overly complete. The rest of the story seems to be fait accompli, and since the film removes all the stuff about 'This isn't the future my mother told me about,' it becomes doubly dull. I never need to see another installment since beyond simple spectacle there's no more story to tell.
post #122 of 514
I found it odd that the movie deletes just about every reference to this being a different future from the one T1-T2 foretold. There's one moment where John tells everyone via radio that new Terminators are coming before even he said they would, but a bunch of stuff from the trailers - "This is not the future my mother warned me about, and in this future, I don't know if we can win this war" / "If you saved us once in another future, then you can save us in this one" - are excised completely.

I'm really curious to see the inevitable unrated version. It feels mildly butchered editing-wise.
post #123 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
He does know that, but again, maybe he figures the fact that he ever existed will be better for the future war than his utter removal from the time stream.

The ending of the movie ruins the whole thing. You want your film to feel like it's complete, but this feels overly complete. The rest of the story seems to be fait accompli, and since the film removes all the stuff about 'This isn't the future my mother told me about,' it becomes doubly dull. I never need to see another installment since beyond simple spectacle there's no more story to tell.
To be perfectly honest, before the reveal with Computer Bonham Carter, I was all ready to defend this movie. It's dumb, Connor shouldn't have been the lead character, Bale was miscast, Yelchin dissapears, and the opening scenes with Marcus are retarded, but it was a blast. I thought it was a really fun piece of fluff. But I was just left scratching my head after that.

ETA: I just realized all the stuff I liked from the teaser trailer was gone. Wtf?
post #124 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Bateman View Post
I honestly have no idea why they started the movie and his character's journey in 2003. Isn't it more dramatic to have it be before judgement day? Maybe I'm just stupid.
As in he could have been part of the original timeline?

T4 is almost the same story as STAR TREK, scriptwise. The old script (with the original ending being pretty much the ONLY thing changed... except for a beefed up John Connor role, but he doesn't actually do anything in the film, so that's window dressing) is almost completely intact in this movie. This is why Jonathan Nolan got no credit, despite writing lots of new pages. Marcus was conceived as a timeline variable, and all that 'this isn't the future' stuff is there so when we get to the original ending and Connor dies it's shocking but also set up in advance that this isn't the future we think it is.
post #125 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post
I found it odd that the movie deletes just about every reference to this being a different future from the one T1-T2 foretold. There's one moment where John tells everyone via radio that new Terminators are coming before even he said they would, but a bunch of stuff from the trailers - "This is not the future my mother warned me about, and in this future, I don't know if we can win this war" / "If you saved us once in another future, then you can save us in this one" - are excised completely.

I'm really curious to see the inevitable unrated version. It feels mildly butchered editing-wise.
Yea, that's what I kept thinking about after I saw it. Seems like the movie was butchered.
post #126 of 514
I'm getting a headache trying to figure out what went wrong with this movie. I'm just going to stop thinking about it and never watch it again.
post #127 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Bateman View Post
I'm getting a headache trying to figure out what went wrong with this movie. I'm just going to stop thinking about it and never watch it again.
Except that STAR TREK was better cast and snappier, I think it's all the same problems as T4. It's interesting to see how much people will forgive with one over the other.
post #128 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
Except that STAR TREK was better cast and snappier, I think it's all the same problems as T4. It's interesting to see how much people will forgive with one over the other.
Ugh. Dude.
post #129 of 514
Star Trek has all the script problems of T4 - maybe even more - but it works on an emotional level. We enjoy those characters. It seems like most of the character dynamics were snipped out of Salvation.

A perfect example is Bryce Dallas Howard. She has two moments that I really, really liked. The first is when she kisses John before "I'll be back." It's a long kiss that actually feels real. I believe these people. The second is when she's looking at John post-impaling, has the tear, and bolts away. She even manages to sell a line like "His heart can't take it." I wanted more of those beats. Make me like these people.
post #130 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post
This movie seems to be confused about how this works, too. If Kyle gets killed it's not like John just blinks out of existence.
This also confused me. I understand why he'd want to save his dad, but still.
post #131 of 514
It's a BACK TO THE FUTURE thought process of time travel. Duh.
post #132 of 514
So consensus. Do we want another 2 more films by McG of this trilogy? Or do you want another standalone reboot?

I have a feeling SALVATION isn't going to be the big box office hit the studios want this to be. Angels and Demons numbers, maybe?
post #133 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte View Post
It's a BACK TO THE FUTURE thought process of time travel. Duh.
So in the Terminator 2: McG Edition, will John Connor cease to exist when the Terminator gives him the thumbs up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by felix natalya View Post
I have a feeling SALVATION isn't going to be the big box office hit the studios want this to be. Angels and Demons numbers, maybe?
It'll do better than that. Even a disappointing $75 million 5-day puts it at $160-170m total.
post #134 of 514
I'm curious how the regular people like the movie. I've said that the film only needs to be OK to do well; I think it's only OK.
post #135 of 514
I havent seen this yet but I hear a lot of people asking how skynet knows this and that about Kyle Reese, etc...

Call me crazy, but since Skynet is an evolution of the technology taken from the remains of the first movie...isnt it possible the data it held could have passed on? Or maybe Future John Connor has a huge freaking mouth..."Hey guys...one day Ill meet my Dad...his name's Kyle." Out of curiosity, in the second film, doesn't one of the doctor's or the police computer say John's biological father is Kyle Reese? That information would have been asimilated by Skynet when it took over emergency services.

Also, it seems a lot of critics are pretty hard on this film. I hear a lot of complaints on lack of deep characters, bad script writing, etc. I know Ill be banned from the nostalgia club, but really...The Terminator movies had about as deep of characters as a cardboard cutout. I know a lot of people think its deeper than it is...but Terminator was nothing more than a surprise hit B Sci Fi movie. T-2 just added more car chases and explosians. It seems a lot of critics were looking for The Matrix of Terminator movies...its not that type of franchise.

I dunno, maybe they're frustrated with what it COULD have been. At that point, I just say, its a movie about killer robots in the future, what do you want Citizen F'ing Cane? Know what you're going to see. No one throws childrens movies down because of lack of (Romance, characterization, deep plot, etc)...why? Because you wouldnt expect it to its for kids. I dunno why people expect Terminator to be the Crime and Punishment of Action films. Its an action film, were lucky we get a plot that makes sense. We're ESPECIALLY lucky if we get a hero that bleeds.

BTW I imagine a lot of these online critics will lampoon T4 and Praise Transformers/Transformers 2 Electric Boogaloo. Honestly, each series is essentially the same. Robots fighting. I dunno why Transformers gets such praise. Its just as shallow...but alas thats the theme of critics. Like one robot movie, hate another.
post #136 of 514
Just got back from seeing it. My gut reaction is that I both liked it and despised it at once. There were some really solid action elements that resonated on an emotional level much better than any of the dramatic dialogue moments. It's strange that I felt more whenever the machines were onscreen than when we were with any of the members of the resistance. Add to that the fact that the only character that we're allowed to connect with on any level (due to performance and screen time) will not be with us from here on out on the journey. Yelchin was solid, but like Nick said in the review, he was unceremoniously dumped halfway through.

Or maybe my connection to the machine element comes from the fact that I'm part mach------ ***CONNECTION LOST***
post #137 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePainkiller View Post

BTW I imagine a lot of these online critics will lampoon T4 and Praise Transformers/Transformers 2 Electric Boogaloo. Honestly, each series is essentially the same. Robots fighting. I dunno why Transformers gets such praise. Its just as shallow...but alas thats the theme of critics. Like one robot movie, hate another.

The critics beat up on the first Transformers, too. And I, for one, have a lot less interest in Transformers this summer than I did in 2007. Kind of been there, done that.

I will say that the giant terminator was much more menacing than anything in Transformers. Making it a multi-function hunting device while still giving it some kind of defined shape is something Michael Bay could take note of...
post #138 of 514
What a joyless time at the picture show that turned out to be. I have a whole new appreciation for "Talk to the hand."
post #139 of 514
After about 30 minutes in, I just wanted it to be over. Utterly forgettable.
post #140 of 514
Excellent film. Christian Bale is perfect as...John Connor in this...Terminator Begins. I like the fact that we meet, JC as a low level grunt who quickly rises through the ranks. I loved when JC jumped from the helicopter, into the sea and miraculously found Tech Comm HQ. Anton Yelchin as...Kyle Reese was equally good, and I definitely want to see the rest of the new...McG'd Terminator Franchise.
post #141 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post
A perfect example is Bryce Dallas Howard. She has two moments that I really, really liked. The first is when she kisses John before "I'll be back." It's a long kiss that actually feels real. I believe these people.
The only problem is that's the first time in the entire film that you feel like those two even know each other beyond a working relationship. She might as well just be a good friend who's the company medic up to that point.

Everybody has pretty much hit on my problems with the film, although one thing puzzles me -- how can a film with so much scale be so uninvolving? The shot where Marcus is walking down the hill in the background while Blair is stuck in her parachute had a great feeling of place and perspective, and there are plenty of other moments that are really well thought out and shot, but they're filled with people you just don't care about.

There were two moments when the film grabbed me -- Connor's second radio address where he asks for his followers to ignore the attack order, and the Arnie Terminator reveal. Those moments felt like a Terminator movie, although the blew the Arnie-bot by burning his skin off about a minute into the fight.

And if they don't underline the fact that the future has changed, it makes Marcus' existence even more puzzling -- if Skynet is capable of that kind of tech, why bother making T-800s? It has plenty of humans in captivity, just make a bunch of sleeper agents who don't know they're Terminators and let them loose.

The whole thing felt like it was simply killing time until the movie we really want to see, the one that ends with Connor sending Reese through the portal.
post #142 of 514
Just got back from seeing it. No wonder Fleed liked it. It's a hollow, desperate, misguided, pointless exercise in franchise product-making. I really wanted to like it, as the early Comic-Con reel from last year and all the trailers had won me over. Despite a few competent action scenes, this film is almost a total misfire. And an annoying one at that.

I'm still up for future installments so long as McG isn't at the helm and there's a meaningful reason to continue the story -- unlike TERMINATOR SALVATION.

Oh, and Danny Elfman needs to retire and spend his twilight years banging Bridget Fonda.
post #143 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post
I found it odd that the movie deletes just about every reference to this being a different future from the one T1-T2 foretold. There's one moment where John tells everyone via radio that new Terminators are coming before even he said they would, but a bunch of stuff from the trailers - "This is not the future my mother warned me about, and in this future, I don't know if we can win this war" / "If you saved us once in another future, then you can save us in this one" - are excised completely.
Yeah, this really stood out to me. Apparently someone felt that making time paradoxes a major plot point in a movie that doesn't even directly involve time travel was too confusing. Keeping that in would have also exposed other plot issues (ie, as pointed out above, that the T1 version of Kyle Reese who fathered John never exists in the post-T3 timeline anyway). But it's still a mess. There has to have been some kind of explanation for Skynet knowing about Kyle in some cut.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Bateman View Post
I honestly have no idea why they started the movie and his character's journey in 2003. Isn't it more dramatic to have it be before judgement day? Maybe I'm just stupid.
This is the T3 timeline. Judgment Day doesn't happen until 2003 or 2004.
post #144 of 514
For all the varieties of Terminators in this film practically none of them are as threatening as Kristanna Loken. That's stupefying.
post #145 of 514
A total snooze fest. Even as an action flick, it wasn't exciting or dramatic. The whole look of the film left me cold.

Glad my expectations were very low to begin with.
post #146 of 514
John Connor: humanity's last Guns n Roses fan.

Best thing I can say about it is that it's very watchable. Once. Marcus and Williams were much more charismatic and interesting than John Connor and Bryce. Action scenes were pretty decent, esp. the TRON-cycles chase.

I do believe I'm officially tired of Angry, Husky-Voiced Bale. He needs to do something 180 degrees different next . . . like an Apatow film or Newsies 2. He's just on the verge of parody now.

I did like that it's very, very loud and seat-rumbley. Otherwise, it was an okay timekiller with no scenes as embarrassing as stuff in T3, but far from hitting any peaks from the first two films. Whomever compared it to ALIEN:RESURRECTION was right on the money.
post #147 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
Except that STAR TREK was better cast and snappier, I think it's all the same problems as T4. It's interesting to see how much people will forgive with one over the other.
That's EXACTLY what I've been telling people. If anything, I think Terminator: Salvation fares a little better in the Stupidest Summer Movie contest because its problems are mostly of the "This character was really dumb to do this...." variety whereas Trek has things like Chris Pine stumbling into Old Spock randomly on an entire PLANET. I never felt TS's script straining to jump through the next hoop to keep the story going like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moltisanti
For all the varieties of Terminators in this film practically none of them are as threatening as Kristanna Loken. That's stupefying.
They JUST invented the T-800's. They're not at the T-1000's, yet.
post #148 of 514
I liked it. It was better than star trek and wolverine. As far as any inconsistancies with timeline...this future is different from the future from T1 because of the events in T1 and T2. Time in this franchise is not circular it's linear. Think like bttf 2 when biff changes the past which changes the present. Same thing applies here.

As far as Skynet knowing who kyle reese is, the wormy doctor from 1 & 2 knew about him. I'm sure he put it in a computer sometime. I'm sure skynet reviewed those files. Come on guys think
post #149 of 514
Furthermore I award them for making an Original Terminator movie. T2 and T3 were nothing but recycles of the firsts plot. This one was quite different with solid new and innovative ideas. Everyones upset that it wasn't this or that. I'm excited it wasn't recycled T2/3 time travel save the Connors. I applaud it for breaking the pattern and giving us something new but still remenicintly familiar. Turn your nose up at it if you want but they could have made a sarah conner chron movie.
post #150 of 514
On why Skynet knows about Kyle Reese: there are any number of reasons, going back to the first T-800's busted chip from the first movie, but I'm assuming it's the TX's doing. In T3 she was very actively starting up T1's with nannites, which she communicated with wirelessly, and then she corrupted Ah-Nuld's system. She probably absorbed all of his data, and then uploaded it to Skynet.

What shocked me about the movie was how Connor wasn't more proactive. Maybe he hadn't assumed enough power yet, but it seemed like he spent most of the time telling people "see, told you" rather than trying to prevent things.

Enjoyed the movie, think it will get better with the longer director's cut. My wife did lean over to me at the end and say "what about blood type?" when it came to the heart transplant.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Focused Film Discussion
CHUD.com Community › Forums › THE MAIN SEWER › Focused Film Discussion › TERMINATOR SALVATION Post Release