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Abortion Doctor George Tiller Murdered - Page 9

post #401 of 423
1/27/10 at 2:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
Sorry, been busy doing Sundance stuff to be ignored on the front page! Don't always have the time to catch up with threads in a timely way.
I'll watch 4 months 3 weeks and 2 days tonight. It's not Sundance, but at least it's a thematic movie with the thread.
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post #402 of 423
1/29/10 at 2:25pm
Roeder is found guilty.
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post #403 of 423
1/29/10 at 2:28pm
Good. LET'S FRY HIS FUCKIN ASS
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post #404 of 423
1/29/10 at 2:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Olson View Post
Roeder is found guilty.
Now was this the kind of person Scott Brown and the honorably starchy Gov McDonnell were talking about they ranted about how we should be spending taxpayer dollars to defeat terrorists, not to protect them?

I doubt it.
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post #405 of 423
2/2/10 at 1:07pm
QUESTION!

What do people think about the whole "life is a choice too" thing? The Tebow ad debacle has me thinking about this, and it strikes me as a statement for people who only endorse the concept of "choice" when it's a choice that they would personally approve of, and I've only heard the "life is a choice" thing from pro-lifers, honestly.
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post #406 of 423
2/2/10 at 1:21pm
Here's my take -

I think that most people who support a woman's right to make informed reproductive choices acknowledge that one of those choices is the right to carry a pregnancy to term in a safe and healthy environment. I also think that the condescension implicit in the anti-choice movement's "hey! Life is a choice, too!" is super-obnoxious and smacks of an attempt to control the discourse around reproductive freedoms (i.e. - those baby-murderers don't want to talk about supporting women!).

I have a Facebook friend who is the king of posting "life is a choice" stuff. He makes me insane. Really, not engaging in his wee-brained debate is what makes me insane.
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post #407 of 423
2/2/10 at 1:23pm
It's a dumb play on words for people who don't understand basic concepts.

He runs the football really well, but speaking as a UF alumnus, Tebow is such a fucking embarrassment. Everybody went on and on about what a great leader he was, but when he opened his mouth publicly, it always sounded like Christina Ricci from Fear and Loathing. "GAHBLESS!!"

Incidentally, I'm finding this graph interesting:

http://i.imgur.com/kpb5A.png
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post #408 of 423
2/2/10 at 1:36pm
Another take on the Tebow ad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
Incidentally, I'm finding this graph interesting:

http://i.imgur.com/kpb5A.png
Cool, I'm moving to Utah.
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post #409 of 423
2/2/10 at 1:41pm
Yeah, that article sucks. But what else to expect from a sports columnist who claims to be a feminist, attacks NOW for being condescending while being relentlessly condescending in her own article, and kicks the whole fucking discussion off with the weird, creepy statement that "Tebow is the best thing to happen to young women in a long time"?
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post #410 of 423
2/2/10 at 1:42pm
Okay I'm down with the point of that article, but the tone just sucks. How condescending and obnoxious can you get?

edit - Please note that when I say "the point," I mean that highlighting the importance of the full spectrum of reproductive freedom and the overall grossness of what would otherwise take up that ad space.
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post #411 of 423
2/2/10 at 1:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissZooey View Post
Okay I'm down with the point of that article, but the tone just sucks. How condescending and obnoxious can you get?

edit - Please note that when I say "the point," I mean that highlighting the importance of the full spectrum of reproductive freedom and the overall grossness of what would otherwise take up that ad space.
I agree, but then again this paragraph does not really highlight the full spectrum of the debate but falls back into the obnoxious "black and white" trap:

Quote:
You know what we really need more of? Famous guys who aren't embarrassed to practice sexual restraint, and to say it out loud. If we had more of those, women might have fewer abortions. See, the best way to deal with unwanted pregnancy is to not get the sperm in the egg and the egg implanted to begin with, and that is an issue for men, too -- and they should step up to that.
Yeah, yeah, but wouldn´t comdoms be the most obvious answer instead of going into wonky degrading assumptions in broadest strokes?
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post #412 of 423
2/2/10 at 1:53pm
I can't even say I agree with the point of the article. I'm not upset that Tebow's using a public forum to speak his mind - I'm just embarrassed that the tacit representative for my school is an evangelical simpleton.

"You know what we really need more of? Famous guys who aren't embarrassed to practice sexual restraint, and to say it out loud. If we had more of those, women might have fewer abortions."

True fact: Ocho Cinco is already responsible for over 3,000 abortions.
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post #413 of 423
2/2/10 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakin's Dad View Post
Another take on the Tebow ad.



Cool, I'm moving to Utah.
Starting to see Cleo's point!
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post #414 of 423
2/2/10 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post

Incidentally, I'm finding this graph interesting:

http://i.imgur.com/kpb5A.png
The average IQ in Montana is 103. Must be different parts than I drove through.
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post #415 of 423
2/2/10 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan View Post
I agree, but then again this paragraph does not really highlight the full spectrum of the debate but falls back into the obnoxious "black and white" trap:
It does. I mean, there's no way a single ad is going to cover the entire issue. I was trying to say (and perhaps doing it too quickly/not clearly enough) that this aspect of reproductive freedom is worth discussing. Perhaps a Super Bowl spot isn't the best place to do that, though.

And this -

Quote:
You know what we really need more of? Famous guys who aren't embarrassed to practice sexual restraint, and to say it out loud. If we had more of those, women might have fewer abortions. See, the best way to deal with unwanted pregnancy is to not get the sperm in the egg and the egg implanted to begin with, and that is an issue for men, too -- and they should step up to that.
Is kind of annoying. It's not about restraint and it's not about men - Jesus God, are we really managing to make even pregnancy about men? - it's about education and support for women's reproductive choices.

In short, I think I'd like to slightly adjust my opinion of the article. I'm sure the feminist blogs will be taking the author to pieces shortly.
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post #416 of 423
2/2/10 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissZooey View Post
Perhaps a Super Bowl spot isn't the best place to do that, though.
That's my whole deal - what in the hell does abortion have to do with football? They're pretty much injecting this debate into something that's generally held up as a testosterone-laden orgy of MANNNHOOOOD, which is kinda fucked.
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post #417 of 423
2/2/10 at 9:32pm
Football games are some of the only times where I can hang out with my family and not get into a fight with my uber-right wing mom. Don't take that away from me.
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post #418 of 423
2/5/10 at 5:09pm
A couple of reactions from football players to the Tebowrtion Ad: http://www.feministing.com/archives/019925.html
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post #419 of 423
2/5/10 at 6:14pm
Frankly, I don't get the hate for this ad. It's a 30 second ad by a group that's allowed to have an agenda with a well-known guy who's allowed to have his opinions. I'm staunchly pro-choice, but there's a valid argument to be anti-abortion. I know plenty of people who have sound opinions regarding their anti-abortion stance and it's incredibly un-American to not allow people to express their opinions on a certain manner, whether you agree with them or not.

If anyone deserves any heat, it's CBS for not allowing the gay dating service ad. The anger towards the network for refusing to air that ad and allowing this one is definitely legitimate.

It's okay to disagree with other people and as soon as you start demeaning your opponent without providing real argument against their views, you've lost already.
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post #420 of 423
2/5/10 at 6:15pm
Does the ad give me a reason why I should give a shit if Tim Tebow was born or not?
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post #421 of 423
2/5/10 at 6:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompoussory Estoppel View Post
Frankly, I don't get the hate for this ad.
I stated this elsewhere so this is pretty much a copy-and-paste:

Because he's taking part in an ad sponsored by a notoriously anti-choice/anti-gay organization which made the bizarre decision to inject the abortion debate into an event that's basically intended for men. There's also the fact that a LOT of pro-choicers only pay lip service to the concept of choice when it's a choice that they themselves would agree with, otherwise they're actively discouraging women from getting abortions while trying to co-opt the idea of "choice" for their own cause, which often involves awful propaganda intended to mislead and confuse women who are already in a vulnerable spot.
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post #422 of 423
2/5/10 at 9:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissZooey View Post
Here's my take -

I think that most people who support a woman's right to make informed reproductive choices acknowledge that one of those choices is the right to carry a pregnancy to term in a safe and healthy environment. I also think that the condescension implicit in the anti-choice movement's "hey! Life is a choice, too!" is super-obnoxious and smacks of an attempt to control the discourse around reproductive freedoms (i.e. - those baby-murderers don't want to talk about supporting women!).

I have a Facebook friend who is the king of posting "life is a choice" stuff. He makes me insane. Really, not engaging in his wee-brained debate is what makes me insane.
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post #423 of 423
2/5/10 at 9:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissZooey View Post
Here's my take -

I think that most people who support a woman's right to make informed reproductive choices acknowledge that one of those choices is the right to carry a pregnancy to term in a safe and healthy environment. I also think that the condescension implicit in the anti-choice movement's "hey! Life is a choice, too!" is super-obnoxious and smacks of an attempt to control the discourse around reproductive freedoms (i.e. - those baby-murderers don't want to talk about supporting women!).

I have a Facebook friend who is the king of posting "life is a choice" stuff. He makes me insane. Really, not engaging in his wee-brained debate is what makes me insane.
I agree with this.

Speaking of FB friends, I've seen a friendship implode over the last few days as a pro-choice friend took umbrage at a pro-lifer and her husband dropping a 'murderers' comment when she posted a YouTube video of grandmothers disagreeing with the Tebow ad. Her argument: I don't bother you when you make pro-life posts, why bother me when I do the opposite?

I'd wade into that, but I have no desire to see my Pro-Choice Equation essentially belittled and lose a 12-year friendship in the process.
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