The X-Men, Four films and counting! - Page 2

What was really unfortunate about Rogue is that X2 hinted at her gaining control of her powers during the Iceman kissing scene. At first he seemed okay, and Rogue only started absorbing him when the kissing got hot and heavy. Compare that to the kiss in the first movie when the absorption was almost instantaneous. I think Singer was setting up the possibility of it being a mental block (girl has a bad first experience and is afraid of sex for years if not her entire life), but that's never picked up on in X3.

Similar to what Gabe mentioned about Jean being sexuality run amok, Rogue is like a full body vagina dentata. God I love that phrase. 

I saw the Jean/Phoenix stuff in X3 as more id run wild than sexuality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven 

What was really unfortunate about Rogue is that X2 hinted at her gaining control of her powers during the Iceman kissing scene. At first he seemed okay, and Rogue only started absorbing him when the kissing got hot and heavy. Compare that to the kiss in the first movie when the absorption was almost instantaneous. I think Singer was setting up the possibility of it being a mental block (girl has a bad first experience and is afraid of sex for years if not her entire life), but that's never picked up on in X3.

 

Similar to what Gabe mentioned about Jean being sexuality run amok, Rogue is like a full body vagina dentata. God I love that phrase. 

That's a really good point about Rogue gradually controlling her ability.  I'd completely forgotten about that.  Is that something that was touched on in the comics?  If that's indeed where Singer wanted to go, that just makes X3 even more frustrating.

The thing about id... it's so often represented by unchecked sexuality, especially when it comes to women.  

And just to pimp John Powell some more without anyone having to actually put a disc in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aHB-gPpyA0#t=2m23s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNjidu0pE8s
 

I just thought Rogue dumping her powers was bad writing, but McKellen has a point, ESPECIALLY following Singer's films (and from what I understand a lot of the reason McKellen even did these films was because he and Singer related on a personal level with the whole mutant=gay thing). You also make good points nooj, but I think it was heavily implied in X-Men 2 that she was on her way to controlling her powers (she kisses Bobby, she stops Pyro without killing him or putting him in a coma), and think that the choice to dump her powers was untrue to both the comic character and the film character, not to mention the subtext.

Edit: Too slooooooow

I think it makes Charles Xavier a much more fascinating character in the movies to have him be a bit of a failure. He is unable to help Rogue, keeps knowledge of Stryker from Wolverine which could have proved useful when the school was invaded, and "helps" Jean in such a way that leads to insanity and ultimately his death. His students follow up his death by using the cure on Magneto, something Charles would have hated, and being forced to kill Jean, his worst failure and best justification for the cure's existence. 

Hmmm. The character has very few actual lines in the series, and Patrick Stewart plays him like a saint, but the man is really an Machiavellian egomaniac with really poor judgment and an inability to make professional decisions without letting personal baggage get involved. Otherwise he wouldn't have let Magneto get away with as much as he did. Yeah Magneto had the helmet, but Charles could have used Cerebro to locate Sabertooth, Toad or Mystique whenever he wanted. 

The ultimate failure of that 3rd film (besides the fucking lame action based second half) is the fact that it's implied that nothing that happened in the movie besides Jean's death sticks. Magneto makes the chess piece wiggle, implying that the cure doesn't actually work, and Charles moves his conciousness into another body (which doesn't mean anything, since his powers can make everyone see that new body as his old body). I think it's also fair to infer that Cyclops could still be alive since we never see him actually die (I'm positive this would be used as an opening to bring the character back in future installments), and anyone that knows the comics knows that Jean Grey never dies, and future filmmakers have a bounty of books giving them ideas on how to bring her back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe Powers 

The ultimate failure of that 3rd film (besides the fucking lame action based second half) is the fact that it's implied that nothing that happened in the movie besides Jean's death sticks. Magneto makes the chess piece wiggle, implying that the cure doesn't actually work, and Charles moves his conciousness into another body (which doesn't mean anything, since his powers can make everyone see that new body as his old body). I think it's also fair to infer that Cyclops could still be alive since we never see him actually die (I'm positive this would be used as an opening to bring the character back in future installments), and anyone that knows the comics knows that Jean Grey never dies, and future filmmakers have a bounty of books giving them ideas on how to bring her back.

 But would Xavier even have his powers, it's just his consciousness that's been transferred which wouldn't have anything to do with his mutation. Plus, the body was supposed to be his brain dead twin brother, so there's that excuse.

I guess I figured if you have the power to transfer your consciousness a thousand miles you maintained some of those powers, though I suppose you have a point based on the goofy science of pretend mutations.

And was it expressly mentioned in the film that the body was his twin? This is the first I've heard of this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe Powers 

I guess I figured if you have the power to transfer your consciousness a thousand miles you maintained some of those powers, though I suppose you have a point based on the goofy science of pretend mutations.

 

And was it expressly mentioned in the film that the body was his twin? This is the first I've heard of this.

I don't  know, I'm going by the logic of the films. Mutations are genetic not psychic or whatever, I know it's silly bullshit.

It wasn't in the movie, it's according to the commentary track. I think Stewart's voice coming from the body was supposed to be a clue, but it was set up in a piss poor way. Which is odd, because Stewart supposedly was the body in the bed in the few scenes, I guess they were too lazy to pan the camera over.

So wait, does that mean he transferred his consciousness into Cassandra Nova? 

The morality of X-Men 3 is truly shitty, like almost creepily shitty. I think Magneto has the definite moral high ground and it kind of left a bad taste in my mouth to see the X-Men actually fighting and using the cure. 

(close-up of CURE)

(a few anxious close-ups of HEROES)

"Well, that's enough moral conundrum for one movie!

(limp bon mot followed by STABBY STABBY!)

"It's all good because we didn't use it right away!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd 

So wait, does that mean he transferred his consciousness into Cassandra Nova? 

Maybe Tom Hardy will play him in part four.

Just watched Wolverine. It's a truly shitty film, just mediocre in every way. However I think the dubious morality of Last Stand makes it a shittier film. Wolverine is just bad, whereas Last Stand is both bad and kind of insulting. Wolverine is kind of hilarious though, so much shitty CGI, so many horrible concepts and it's so inert. I mean The Last Stand has at least individual sequences which work. 

I've also come up with a theory about The Last Stand. If you didn't kill Cyclops in the film you could actually do some really interesting stuff with Jean Grey/Phoenix. Because you could have two romantic interests which represent the duality of her nature, Cyclops in love with the controlled Jean, Wolverine in love with the more wild Phoenix. Have Wolverine abandon the team to find Phoenix and have Cyclops try and hold everything together without Xavier. It would at least give his character something to do.