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Lost: The Rewatch Thread

post #1 of 1932
Thread Starter 
Next season means the end of Lost. Between now and January of 2010, I'll be rewatching the series, typically at a four-episodes-a-week pace.

If you've never tried the show, I encourage you to jump in and test the waters. Lost has its flaws, but it's consistently excellent television and well worth the commitment. If you're already a fan, come along and let's see it again from the beginning. When Season Six rolls around it'll be as if we've just read through all the Potter books in time for the final volume.

I'd like to suggest that we place a block of episodes up for discussion and spend the week discussing them. Next monday, the next four episodes will go up and we'll shift focus to discuss them, as well as continue discussing the previous episodes if we want.

I'm not sure how to handle 'spoilers' for future seasons, as far as those new to the show are concerned, but suggestions would be welcomed!

This week's episodes:

Pilot: Part One
Pilot: Part Two
Tabula Rasa
Walkabout
post #2 of 1932
I rewatched seasons 1-3 before Season 4 started, so doubt I will do it again. But I'll certainly keep up with this thread and chime in when I can.
post #3 of 1932
Some friends had just started watching my DVDs, and I was watching the first couple of episodes with them. They couldn't understand why I shook my head and chuckled after hearing Locke explain backgammon to Walt. There are a lot of little "I get it" moments when you go back and rewatch. I'll try to keep up with this thread, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to follow the schedule.
post #4 of 1932
I stopped after season 3 and was planning to watch 4 and 5 this summer in preparation for the finale. So reading along in this thread up to the end of season 3 should make for a nice recap. Glad you're doing this.
post #5 of 1932
Deadwood is currently dominating my TV-on-DVD viewing, and I don't think I can go through 4 hrs of the show in a week. However, I've rewatched the first 3 seasons three times already, and season 4 twice, so I'll definitely keep an eye on this thread and chime in when appropriate.
post #6 of 1932
Thread Starter 

Season One: Episodes 1-4

[Note: Anyone can get a recap of the episodes and their events by googling them. I’d prefer to discuss what comes to mind about the episodes generally, not give a plot synopsis. Chime in!]

Season One: Episodes 1-4

A fateful crash-landing. A mysterious Island. A group of survivors. That’s all we know entering into this story, and the show’s first few episodes work like gangbusters for me, balancing character work, subtle surreality, a sense of menace, and a fragile hope.

This early in the game, it's all about the characters. There is no Dharma Initiative, there are no ‘Others,’ Walt doesn’t have the Shinning yet, Locke’s mad, Ahab-esque Hatch quest yet looms on the horizon, so it’s down to character interaction for the most part. And these characters are fun/interesting to watch. I haven't seen Season One through since it aired, and following the events of the S5 finale, its fun to see how all these people got their start with one another.

In these initial episodes the writers mostly illustrate the potential realities of being stranded, while at the same time not attempting any sort of total gritty realism. This means that we get frank and honest discussions about burning dead bodies in the fuselage to keep animals from consuming them, as well as an extended sequence of Hurley and Charley fishing (hilariously) with a spear.

It's also interesting to see how my knowledge of these characters after five seasons has influenced how I view behavior at the beginning of the story. Sawyer is a good example. Rewatching his first scenes, Mr. Ford comes across less as the dangerous criminal he was to me initially, and more of a dickish, emotionally-battered smartass. This is a result of both my expanded knowledge of him as well as the way in which that understanding informs the acting choices that Holloway makes here at the start.

Jack comes across as more complex and ambiguous in his heroism from the start – quick to point out that he’s entered the family business as something of an inevitable event, capable of heroic action but just as capable of overextending himself, unable to let things go. Some folks have soured on Jack, but I really like his arc and Matthew Fox is exceptionally good at showing conviction while hiding doubt.

I've grown more and more tired of Kate as the show has gone on, but she's an engaging character at the beginning of the show and it makes em think that what I’m really tired of is the triangle she’s in, not necessarily the character. Plus, Evangeline Lily gives great I'm-gonna-die-face. Check out, if you will, her close-ups during any of the scenes on the failing plane. There are moments of cross-eyed weirdness that are laugh-out-loud funny, and for some reason we get to see those moments a few times over these episodes, as the show cuts back to cross-eyed Kate over and again.

In general, I’m struck by how human most of the characters are. The show went out of its way to paint each of them as flawed from the word go. I’m also struck by how Boone seems to screw up every single thing he touches. Good lord, man. Recognize your limitations. Great Boone line #1: “I run a business!”
post #7 of 1932
Thread Starter 
(cont'd)

I can see more clearly why some folks were turned off by the developments of later seasons when looking back on these eps. They’re all touched by elements of the weird (the Monster, the bears, Christian), but the focus is on the people who’ve crashed and on their basic survival, along with their personal histories. This focus goes wider and wider as the show progresses and it’s easier to see, looking back, how that expansion would turn some off. For me it’s cat-nip.

In terms of the show’s eventual “mythology,” the first four episodes drop some hints into the bucket and give the show some shades of previous sci-fi classics like the Prisoner and Twin Peaks with well-chosen moments of fright and mystery. Mythology elements touched on so far include:

-The Monster: Smokey shows up early and often in the first four episodes, something I guess I'd forgotten. We don't see him/her/it, but we hear it, and we see it move, marked by uprooted trees and shaking foliage. It's not clear to me if anyone on the show actually knew what the Monster was at this point, but there's nothing in the first four episodes that contradicts what we'll learn later.

We see Smokey take out the pilot of the plane, but it’s not clear why. Most likely it’s simply because they wanted to establish the Monster as a legitimate threat, not because they’d already decided what its motives were.

-Jack's Dad: Jack's father appears on the Island for the first time in Walkabout, the fourth episode. He's a momentary apparition, but there's maximum eerieness to the appearances, aided by the incongruity of a full, natty-looking, suit and tie outfit in the Island landscape. We don't know that this mystery man is Jack's pop yet, but we can sense that there's something otherworldly about the appearance. We also see what appears to be a white tennis shoe in the opening sequence of the Pilot, dangling from a tree. It serves two purposes: for the new viewer it indicates that something here is off, prior to discovering the crash. For the repeat viewer it seems to be one of Christian’s tennis shoes.

-John Locke’s Legs: Walkabout is justifiably celebrated as one of the show’s best episodes, and I’m reminded again why that is. The reveal of John’s ‘limitations’ is very well handled, and the revelation of what Locke’s miracle was is dealt with intelligently and smoothly. There are no words to let us know what’s happened, just the stark shift from a man confined to a man liberated, wordlessly searching the sky with wondering eyes.

-Backgammon!: ‘Two sides, one light, one dark. Backgammon is 5,000 years old – that’s older than Jesus Christ.’ Looking back, these (paraphrased) lines laid out one essential thread of the show from the very beginning. It suggests many things at once: that the show is not simply a Judeo-Christian allegory, that there are forces at war, that there are sides and that these people will be among the players. When the show first aired there was much speculation that this was the mission statement of the show, per se. As the show went on, that line first seemed less relevant, and then seemed relevant to the story of Widmore and Linus. Now, as we round the corner to the final season, we’re back where we began – contemplating a more cosmic interpretation of those words.

Nifty touches/references:

1) Watership Down pops up, in what I believe to be the first installment of the Lost literary appreciation gallery.
2) In Tabula Rasa, Kate the fugitive drags a one-armed man to safety. Dr. Kimble would chuckle.


Those are my scattered opening thoughts and impressions. I’ll add more through the week. What are yours? Favorite lines? Moments? Things that stand out? Things that impress or irk?
post #8 of 1932
Lovely thread Jesse.

I´d love to chime in once I have settled in my new home and set up all my technical stuff. But that could take one or two month.

Anyway I just wanted to comment on the spoiler issue mentioned earlier. Since this is a rewatch thread I guess it would be pointless not to include spoilers since the most appealing stuff would definitely be things that shine in a different light after five seasons.

Anyway, continue.
post #9 of 1932
Custer, I'm going to do my best to jump onto the rewatch train. I'm not sure how prompt I'll be, however, as I'm currently deep into a dangerous "Deadwood" obsession.
post #10 of 1932
I've been meaning to re-watch season two and three. I re-watched one right before this past season started.
post #11 of 1932
Great thread. All I can say is good luck wading through season 2.

On the first 4 episodes. I seem to remember Charlie doing a lot of mugging for the camera. I also liked how Hurley has essentially remained exactly the same from start to present.

The scene that really got me into this show (I think it's in the first 4 episodes) was when they discovered the staticy voice on the radio calling out "the numbers". It was just well-done, mysterious television.
post #12 of 1932
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matches_Malone View Post
Great thread. All I can say is good luck wading through season 2.
I liked Season 2 when it aired, even if the eventual flip-flop between Locke and Eko over the button was (to my recollection) sort of random. We'll see how it holds up now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matches_Malone View Post
On the first 4 episodes. I seem to remember Charlie doing a lot of mugging for the camera. I also liked how Hurley has essentially remained exactly the same from start to present.
I was struck by Hurley's constancy on second viewing also. He is the same basically benevolent figure he's always been. Since I'm going to be referencing various schools of belief as Lost references them, I'll say that Hurley calls to mind the ideals of Taoism and the way of the Buddha. Hurley conjures the concept of 'Pu,' a Taoist concept of simplicity, or 'the uncarved block.'

Charlie strikes me, even more on second viewing, as a deeply wounded and troubled soul from the word go. Not sure if the mugging you bring up involves his drug using - I found his scenes alone, discreetly getting high, to be pretty effective stuff and I like in retrospect how relatively open and vulnerable he is despite his hidden addiction. His scars are all pretty much on the surface, and I really like the way he uses his 'currency,' in the form of having been in a one-hit rock band, in an attempt to establish himself in the Islanders' pecking order. I like how relatively subtle this is. The first time he does it, with Kate, it comes off as endearing and oddball. The second time, it's needier and searching, as if saying this has paid dividends off-Island (and I'm sure it has - Brett Michaels is still using this trick) but isn't working now. He has no status to speak of on the Island, where 'being in a band' means nothing on a Boar hunt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matches_Malone View Post
The scene that really got me into this show (I think it's in the first 4 episodes) was when they discovered the staticy voice on the radio calling out "the numbers". It was just well-done, mysterious television.
This was terrific to revisit. Mysterious and creepy as all get-out.

Here are the French iterations, as broadcast in the episode, if anyone's curious:
Quote:
Iteration 17294530 : "Si qui que ce soit puisse entendre ceci, ils sont morts. Veuillez nous aider. Je vais essayer d'aller jusqu'au Rocher Noir. Il les a tués. Il les a tués tous."

Iteration 17294531 : "Il est dehors. il est dehors et Brennan a pris les clés. Veuillez nous aider. Ils sont morts. Ils sont tous morts. Aidez-nous. Ils sont morts."

Iteration 17294532 : "Il est dehors. Il est dehors et Brennan a pris les clés. Veuillez nous aider. Ils sont morts. Ils sont tous morts. Aidez-nous. Ils sont morts."

Iteration 17294533 : "Ils sont tous morts. Aidez-nous. Ils sont morts. Si qui que ce soit puisse entendre ceci"

Iteration 17294534 : "Il est dehors. Veuillez nous aider. Veuillez nous aider."

Iteration 17294535 : "Si qui que ce soit puisse entendre ceci, je vais essayer d'aller jusqu'au Rocher Noir. Veuillez nous aider. Ils sont tous morts. Ils sont morts. Il les a tués. Ils les a tués tous. Je vais essayer d'aller jusqu'au Rocher Noir."
Here are the English translations of those iterations:

Quote:
Iteration 17294530 : "If anybody can hear this, they are dead. Please help us. I'll try to make it to the Black Rock. It [or he] killed them. It [or he] killed them all."

Iteration 17294531 : "It [or he] is outside. It [or he] is outside and Brennan took the keys. Please help us. They are dead. They are all dead. Help us. They are dead."

Iteration 17294532 : "It [or he] is outside. It [or he] is outside and Brennan took the keys. Please help us. They are dead. They are all dead. Help us. They are dead."

Iteration 17294533 : "They are all dead. Help us. They are dead. If anybody can hear this—"

Iteration 17294534 : "It [or he] is outside. Please help us. Please help us !"

Iteration 17294535 : "If anybody can hear this, I'll try to make it to the Black Rock. Please help us ! They are all dead. They are dead. It [or he] killed them. It [or he] killed them all. I'll try to make it to the Black Rock."
post #13 of 1932
What? That doesn't make any sense. Danielle told us (and we saw her) kill her entire crew. Even if she thinks the men coming out of the Temple/Smokey's lair weren't her husband and crew in spirit, its bizarre for her to say "it killed them".
post #14 of 1932
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
What? That doesn't make any sense. Danielle told us (and we saw her) kill her entire crew. Even if she thinks the men coming out of the Temple/Smokey's lair weren't her husband and crew in spirit, its bizarre for her to say "it killed them".
I don't know about that. The flashbacks we saw this season make it pretty clear that Danielle thought the rest of the crew had been changed/infected irrevocably, and we see Smokey kill one of the crew outright. It's entirely plausible for her to describe both the attack and the infection as 'killing' them, especially if the french language doesn't accomodate 'It killed one of them and turned the rest into murderous zombie automatons' easily.

It's also entirely possible that, after recording the transmission in season one, the show decided it wanted to do something slightly more nuanced with the Rousseau crew backstory than simply slaughtering them all, and so changed things up slightly.

It's either slight revisionism or its a more 'poetic' view of what happened. And psychologically-speaking, I doubt that a young woman alone on a creepy island would choose to admit to murder in a distress call. I imagine she'd be more likely to paint the threat as outside of both herself and her companions.

Which, come to think of it, is kind of a defining theme of this series - any threat is almost always percieved as being something literally outside the group we are identifying with at the time (see: the Others, Widmore, Dharma v. Hostiles), whereas the true danger almost always originates, literally or figuratively, from within that group (see: Ethan, Michael, Sawyer in the Dharma Initiative).
post #15 of 1932
I just started watching season one for a Blu-ray review. There's no fucking way I'm going to get through all of it before the release date, and I've never watched it before, so I can't really write a review from memory. I watched all of season 4 for that review, but otherwise I'm going in pretty blind. It's weird.
post #16 of 1932
It's pretty clear the writers didn't know what to do with Rousseau. She's the one character they really fucked up with.
post #17 of 1932
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
It's pretty clear the writers didn't know what to do with Rousseau. She's the one character they really fucked up with.
In what way is it pretty clear that the writers didn't know what to do with Rousseau? And how did they really f--- up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe Powers View Post
I just started watching season one for a Blu-ray review. There's no fucking way I'm going to get through all of it before the release date, and I've never watched it before, so I can't really write a review from memory. I watched all of season 4 for that review, but otherwise I'm going in pretty blind. It's weird.
That is weird. How was it watching Season 4 without the previous seasons? Did anything make sense?
post #18 of 1932
She's a useless character. She doesn't serve the story in any way and the story doesn't serve her. Her arc was completely abandoned halfway through the series, and when she returned they immediately killed her off.
post #19 of 1932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
She's a useless character. She doesn't serve the story in any way and the story doesn't serve her. Her arc was completely abandoned halfway through the series, and when she returned they immediately killed her off.
They've fumbled with her history a bit and her exit was less than gracefully executed, but she was relatively important for a while. Even if her info was a little incorrect in the long run, her presence was important in that it established the Alex/Ben story.

Ultimately, she's no more or less "useless" than any number of characters who served the plot at one time or another and no longer do, like Ana Lucia, Libby, Eko, Shannon, Boone, etc. Present use isn't a good measurement of overall use.
post #20 of 1932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Custer View Post
That is weird. How was it watching Season 4 without the previous seasons? Did anything make sense?
Ha Ha, no, nothing made any sense. At all. I got a sort of in-season continuity. I was frustrated that the whole thing ended exactly how it started. That was the best genuine criticism I could offer in my review. It kind of felt like I'd have enjoyed it more with the back story, but it also kind of pissed me off that so little actually happened over the course of the episodes. Still, I could recognize why it was such a beloved series.
post #21 of 1932
Come on now. They didn't have her be such a prominent character in the first two season for the sole purpose of establishing a Ben/Alex relationship. She was used a proxy so that the Losties and viewers could learn about the strange happenings on the island. Having survived for 16 years, she's as close as we got to an "expert" prior to meeting the Ben. But her account is just so sketchy now, it just makes some of the early season story line's seem pointless.
post #22 of 1932
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
She's a useless character. She doesn't serve the story in any way and the story doesn't serve her. Her arc was completely abandoned halfway through the series, and when she returned they immediately killed her off.
I'm more than a little confused by your qualifications, to be honest. Rousseau was pretty clearly a supporting character, not a main character. Her arc ended when the story needed it to end: showcasing the violence of the mercenaries and effectuating Alex's capture.

Prior to that, she taught the castaways about the Others, foreshadowed the Others' fascination with babies by kidnapping Aaron, provided the introduction to the Black Rock and the Dark Territory....that's just off the top of my head.

Plus what Dave said, essentially.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
Come on now. They didn't have her be such a prominent character in the first two season for the sole purpose of establishing a Ben/Alex relationship. She was used a proxy so that the Losties and viewers could learn about the strange happenings on the island. Having survived for 16 years, she's as close as we got to an "expert" prior to meeting the Ben. But her account is just so sketchy now, it just makes some of the early season story line's seem pointless.
That's a strange way of viewing things. Television characters must only provide accurate and reliable information in order to make a storyline valid? Many of her 'expert' tips were accurate and helpful. The one that was 'sketchy' wasn't even information she provided directly to the 815ers. It was a recording she'd made 16 years earlier, and one which has a semi-rational explanation.
post #23 of 1932
Supporting or no, she was a beloved character to many and it sucks to see her story so mangled. The inconsistencies are not insignificant. Going over her page on Lostpedia frustrates me even more. For a show that is usually so good about details, its baffling why they can't keep things straight here.
post #24 of 1932
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
Supporting or no, she was a beloved character to many and it sucks to see her story so mangled. The inconsistencies are not insignificant. Going over her page on Lostpedia frustrates me even more. For a show that is usually so good about details, its baffling why they can't keep things straight here.
Maybe there's a reason for apparent inconsistencies. Or maybe they screwed up some of the details. Either way, I'm not sweating it right now. The stories of an madwoman tend toward unreliability in my experience.

Of course, my opinion could change when I rewatch her episodes. We'll see!

...and 'beloved character to many'? I had no idea. This isn't me being snarky, just honest. Was/is Rousseau a fan-favorite?
post #25 of 1932
Great idea for a thread Jesse! Seasons 1 and 2 of Lost come out on blu-ray next week, so i'll be able to catch-up and start contributing then.

re: Rousseau - do you guys think that maybe she was one of the secondary characters that became a casualty when ABC agreed to an end date for the series?
post #26 of 1932
Rousseau was an intriguing character, and the way her backstory was told this past season was probably a bit of a letdown, but "beloved"? That's pushing it.
post #27 of 1932
She wasn't a "favorite" because anyone really liked here, but fans were always fixated on her because they assumed she had more answers to mythology stuff than she ended up providing.
post #28 of 1932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe Powers View Post
I just started watching season one for a Blu-ray review. There's no fucking way I'm going to get through all of it before the release date, and I've never watched it before, so I can't really write a review from memory. I watched all of season 4 for that review, but otherwise I'm going in pretty blind. It's weird.
Ah yes... the Blu Ray. I keep meaning to order them for Seaons 1 and 2. amazon is still having a sale, so to speak, up to $40 off depending on how many you buy. I have 3 and 4, but would love to rewatch 1 and 2 in hi-def as well.

Here's a link, in case anyone wants to take a peek:

LINK

Jesse mentioned Sawyer a while back, and looking back on the opening episodes, it was interesting to see how clean Sawyer looked. But of course, getting stuck on an island would scruffy-up anybody.

I've been wanting to revisit the show myself and every now and then I go back and re-watch the pilot. I need to commit to it though and just keep on going so I can see them all.
post #29 of 1932
It's not surprising at all that Rousseau didn't record a distress call of, "Hey, I just killed my husband and my friends - come help me!" There are two easy explanations (she really considered them dead already, or she lied), so assuming a goof-up seems like a stretch.

Of course, we still don't know what the hell happened there, since it's still the only case of possession/insanity on the island.

And people have always gotten pissy when a character dies without getting their flashback episode.
post #30 of 1932
No mention of Libby so far? They've never explained why she was in that Mental Hospital.
post #31 of 1932
I'm glad you're doing this, Jesse, because I want to catch up on the series before the final year. It's one of those things that I've been way behind on, and doing four episodes a week will help me play catch up-keep along.

Anyway, I've already seen the first four from my last attempt, so I'm good for next week. I don't have a lot of thoughts yet, but I am still amazed at how fucking good Walkabout is. That's top 10 episodes of the decade, no doubt.
post #32 of 1932
Honestly, this will be an amazing thread. It's impossible to catch all of them them for me. My first impressions were: backgammon stuff, Locke and the oranges and Jack's attitude along his daddy issues. At first I had 0 empathy with Sawyer. This show will be remembered for bringing enough layers to keep us involved.
post #33 of 1932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Custer View Post
Maybe there's a reason for apparent inconsistencies. Or maybe they screwed up some of the details. Either way, I'm not sweating it right now. The stories of an madwoman tend toward unreliability in my experience.

Of course, my opinion could change when I rewatch her episodes. We'll see!

...and 'beloved character to many'? I had no idea. This isn't me being snarky, just honest. Was/is Rousseau a fan-favorite?
But some of the inconsistencies happen prior to her being on the island for 16 years. So the "crazy lady" defense doesn't work.

Do a search for the early Lost threads. There was a pretty vocal group of folks who dug her character and wanted her to have her own episode/flashback. I may be too hard on her story, but you are too lenient. As usual, the truth is likely somewhere in the middle. I can concede her importance as a character may be up for debate, but the execution of her story just did not do her any favors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
She wasn't a "favorite" because anyone really liked here, but fans were always fixated on her because they assumed she had more answers to mythology stuff than she ended up providing.
This. Beloved was a bit too strong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post
It's not surprising at all that Rousseau didn't record a distress call of, "Hey, I just killed my husband and my friends - come help me!"
Yeah, like "Brennan took the keys" is any more realistic?. A simple "SOS" or "Help!" would suffice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by felix natalya View Post
No mention of Libby so far? They've never explained why she was in that Mental Hospital.
I don't think anyone is interested in finding out that answer, considering the much larger ones still remaining. Also, Cuse and Lindelof basically said that story line is dead.
post #34 of 1932
Regarding Rousseau: her story arc was completed once she was reunited with Alex. This season we get to see the origin of her as a mother. Thematically, it fits with her story and her character and that's all that really matters.

The writers have warned over and over again that season 5 and season 6 is going to disappoint a lot of people because essentially they're going to be telling fans with wild, active imaginations that they're wrong by providing the real answers. I think giving Rousseau a more elaborate back story and/or mythology might be part of that. She's a pregnant woman who washed up on shore, saw a black cloud kill her friends, had her baby stolen, went crazy, made traps and survived only to eventually become reunited with her daughter. Before she (and her daughter) are killed. That's it.
post #35 of 1932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
I don't think anyone is interested in finding out that answer, considering the much larger ones still remaining. Also, Cuse and Lindelof basically said that story line is dead.
While I never cared much for the Libby character, I care about the storyline being resolved. It's small enough to forget about in the course of things, but the last time I rewatched the series, it was one of the bigger loose ends. Lindelof and Cuse seem to flip flop on the issue of explaining the Libby character. I believe they stated up til around season 4 that Libby was important and that we'd definitely find out more about her character. But around the time Season 5 started, they seemed to take that back. After hearing some fan reaction to their comments, they mentioned that they might explain her character a little more if they had time. Most recently, Lindelof stated that Cynthia Watros didn't want to come back and talked about how hard it was to get an actor to cooperate after they'd killed him/her off. He mentioned that they were hopeful she'd come for a Hurley episode next season, but figured if she didn't, they wouldn't want to do it all through lame dialogue. We'll see how it turns out. Watros' pilot didn't get picked up, and she did come back for what seemed to be a 5 second cameo in that Michael episode in season 4, so she can't be that pissed, can she? Either way, Lindelof and Cuse probably regret ending that episode "Dave" with that Libby-in-the-mental-hospital reveal.
post #36 of 1932
Great thread, Jesse. I wish I had the time to follow along but I'm not sure I have the time. Fuckin work getting in the way of Lost watching.

Walkabout is the highlight of season 1 and Terry O'Quinn is a huge reason why. Whether he's playing cocky and sure of himself or incredibly pathetic, he's just so damn great. Actually, I don't think I'd be too incorrect in saying Lost has one of the best television ensemble casts in this decade.

As for Rousseau, I was mostly disappointed with her story for how sad it was. I wish her reunion was handled with a bit more happiness or joy. As I seem to remember, it was just a short scene, taking a break from the big end-of-the-season events. As it is, that character just had an incredibly harsh time on the island.
post #37 of 1932
A strong memory of the first couple of episodes was my distaste for Sawyer, who I thought would be Generic Wisecracking Beefcake #234,876,509. It's been awesome watching his character evolve. Contrast that with Kate, who's been stuck on the same note for years.

Walkabout was where the show went from "this show is intriguing" to "OMG this show's amazing AIIIEEE!!!" I find that when I loan my DVDs out to people, that's the episode where their obsession begins in earnest.

Re: Libby - I recently read that Lindelof had tried to bring her back a handful of times, but the actress turned them down? Will look for that link.
post #38 of 1932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangy View Post
Re: Libby - I recently read that Lindelof had tried to bring her back a handful of times, but the actress turned them down? Will look for that link.
Yeah saw that in this great video interview.....that im having trouble finding. But yeah they tried to get her to do it several times and she wouldn't. He alluded that it wasn't really a scheduling conflict but more of a fuck you for killing me. Makes sense, I heard when they killed her off she cried.

EDIT: Ok heres a link to the segment with the Libby talk. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3rTZ...eature=related

Heres a link to the whole 50 min video, super interesting shit with talk of the numbers and all that cool stuff. http://www.comicsoncomics.com/?p=230
post #39 of 1932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
I don't think anyone is interested in finding out that answer, considering the much larger ones still remaining.
No ways. They might be having problems with the actress, which is very regrettable, but not giving some kind of answer would be leaving a major thread dangling. If anybody doesn't give a damn it would be because the reveal was so long ago. That's no excuse, though.
post #40 of 1932
So, I managed to break the stranglehold "Deadwood" has on me for the evening and watch Part 1 of the "Lost" pilot last night. Wow, it was even better than I remembered. It is a thoroughly enthralling and well shot product (dare I say piece of art?) that grabs your full attention and never lets go. And while I mourn the loss of some of the story's simplicity, at least insofar as it gave way to smoke monsters, Others, Jacob and the rest, it's a pleasure to watch that simplicity with the knowledge of what's to come for our heroes.

Some simple (hell, I'm not the most insightful individuals on these boards) observations:

- Man, it was fun to see that one of Jack's first encounters was with Claire, knowing that they are brother and sister.

- The pilot (at least, part 1) does a brilliant job of introducing you to some of the main players, especially Locke (who knew a man with an orange slice in his mouth could be so creepy?) and Sawyer, by giving them simple character beats, but no dialogue.

- The pilot contains a lot of Smokey (presumably) rumbling through the edge of the jungle. I find that interesting in light of the fact that we now believe that Smokey may be MiB/Tropical Randall Flagg, or a servant thereof. I like to think that, if so, he's observing the latest castaways Jacob has brought to the Island and wondering how long before things end in fighting, destruction and corruption.

Side Note: Given the aforementioned "Deadwood" obsession, I have formulated a new hybrid series called "Lostwood". In it, a 1870s' western mining town is sucked into a dimensional vortex that deposits it onto a mysterious tropical island. The lawless residents have to contend with the looming threat of annexation to Dharmaville while simultaneously combating a cloud of sentient black smoke that keeps drinking all of the whiskey and monopolizing all of the prostitutes.
post #41 of 1932
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
No ways. They might be having problems with the actress, which is very regrettable, but not giving some kind of answer would be leaving a major thread dangling. If anybody doesn't give a damn it would be because the reveal was so long ago. That's no excuse, though.
Oddly, I'm really okay with where they left the Libby storyline. Would it be interesting and exciting to see more of her background? Absolutely. But I think her story works just fine where it was left - the unresolved mental hospital story thread feels complete to me despite its being enigmatic and I'd understand if the writers wanted to drop it, rather than address it in the monologue of another person, if the actress is reluctant to return.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
But some of the inconsistencies happen prior to her being on the island for 16 years. So the "crazy lady" defense doesn't work.
It's not a defense. It's just my take. Feel free to disagree. And I'm not sure what you mean about some of the inconsistencies happening prior to her being on the Island. When we get to her character as the episodes roll on, let's look into it more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
I may be too hard on her story, but you are too lenient.
Now that everyone's been labeled, could I point out that in the post you're quoting, I say upfront that it's entirely possible I'll change my mind on this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
I can concede her importance as a character may be up for debate, but the execution of her story just did not do her any favors.
I was never arguing against her character's importance. And I've said that there are inconsistencies. You liked the character and you feel the character wasn't given her due. I get that. I haven't watched this show through since it first aired, so as of right now I don't have a problem with what I remember of Rousseau's story. Like I said, that may change now that I'm revisiting things. Or maybe it won't. We'll see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
I don't think anyone is interested in finding out that answer, considering the much larger ones still remaining. Also, Cuse and Lindelof basically said that story line is dead.
I'm in essential agreement with you on this, but I would like to point out that people are invested in the Libby storyline for pretty much exactly the reasons you're invested in the Rousseau story.
post #42 of 1932
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattioli View Post
So, I managed to break the stranglehold "Deadwood" has on me for the evening and watch Part 1 of the "Lost" pilot last night.
Welcome aboard, Mattioli.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattioli View Post
- Man, it was fun to see that one of Jack's first encounters was with Claire, knowing that they are brother and sister.
I enjoyed this throughout the first episodes. Seeing people's first interactions with each other - their introductions to one another - was pretty great. I love that the first time we see Kate she's emerging from the jungle, rubbing her wrists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattioli View Post
- The pilot (at least, part 1) does a brilliant job of introducing you to some of the main players, especially Locke (who knew a man with an orange slice in his mouth could be so creepy?) and Sawyer, by giving them simple character beats, but no dialogue.
They use silence really effectively in this group of episodes. The wordless shots of Locke and Sawyer and others are great small character moments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattioli View Post
- The pilot contains a lot of Smokey (presumably) rumbling through the edge of the jungle. I find that interesting in light of the fact that we now believe that Smokey may be MiB/Tropical Randall Flagg, or a servant thereof. I like to think that, if so, he's observing the latest castaways Jacob has brought to the Island and wondering how long before things end in fighting, destruction and corruption.
I'm hoping that this rewatch gives us a better idea of the MiB's role in things so far. Is he actively attempting to 'corrupt' the castaways or simply observing how they innately behave? Last night, I randomly recalled the Hurley Bird - once an item of some interest, now largely forgotten. Was the Hurley Bird the MiB?
post #43 of 1932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Custer View Post
I'm in essential agreement with you on this, but I would like to point out that people are invested in the Libby storyline for pretty much exactly the reasons you're invested in the Rousseau story.
And you could easily make a case that Libby is more crucial overall, since her story extends beyond the island and is tied up in the bizarre coincidences that unite our main characters, unlike Rousseau, who seems to be more a victim of circumstance. But it's entirely debatable.

This is bound to happen in shows with ensemble casts. Certain fans are going to latch on to characters that may or may not be intended to be major. It's like how some folks were thoroughly frustrated by the fact that it took a while for Miles to get a proper flashback episode, but those same people weren't necessarily clamoring for more Charlotte, who'd played no more or less a role on the show to that point.

You end up liking whom you like on this type of show, but just because the writers' concerns don't match up to yours doesn't mean that they've made actual errors in the storytelling.
post #44 of 1932
From the original "Lost" season one thread after part one of the pilot aired:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
Everyone seems to think the smiling scar guy is going to go psycho and kill everyone, which I think is way too obvious. I got more of a "damn I'm glad to be alive" vibe from him than a creepy psycho vibe. I could see him maybe starting some sort of mystical/religious movement, something along the lines of "every moment is precious and we are blessed to simply be here." Maybe even to the point of interfering with efforts to get rescued. That would be much more interesting than the played out line of a trauma sending a guy nuts and him offing people.
Bravo, Dickson, bravo.
post #45 of 1932
How did you find the original Lost season 1 thread? I would love to read through that but the search function isn't helping me.
post #46 of 1932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post
She's a pregnant woman who washed up on shore, saw a black cloud kill her friends, had her baby stolen, went crazy, made traps and survived only to eventually become reunited with her daughter. Before she (and her daughter) are killed. That's it.
Not to keep harping on this, but I think people would be cool with this arc if it didn't contradict everything we learned about her previously. It's the inconsistencies that are must frustrating and chalking up to "crazy lady" is weak sauce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftyEyes View Post
I believe they stated up til around season 4 that Libby was important and that we'd definitely find out more about her character.
I hear you. While I don't care about Libby all that much, they said the same thing about the Freighter Four. Other than Daniel, who became hugely important, the other three got majorly shortchanged. Granted the writer's strike is mostly to blame, but the way they hyped these characters I was expecting way more from them than what we got.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
You end up liking whom you like on this type of show, but just because the writers' concerns don't match up to yours doesn't mean that they've made actual errors in the storytelling.
Look I get it. Some people like some characters more than others. However, when there are specific things aired that don't match up with what were previously aired, its not a question of disliking the storytelling. The facts don't add up.

But I'll let the Rousseau stuff drop for now. It's clear that this conversation has hit its end, unless there's new information to be brought in.
post #47 of 1932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waaaaaaaalt View Post
How did you find the original Lost season 1 thread? I would love to read through that but the search function isn't helping me.
I reorganized the Television forum by thread title, ascending alphabetical order and ran it from the beginning of the forum's history (these can all be found at the bottom of the page). It's a pain in the ole ass. Regardless, to make things easy on you, here it is: "Lost" season one.
post #48 of 1932
Thank you.
post #49 of 1932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
Not to keep harping on this, but I think people would be cool with this arc if it didn't contradict everything we learned about her previously. It's the inconsistencies that are must frustrating and chalking up to "crazy lady" is weak sauce.
Contradict everything? That's a bit much, isn't it?



Quote:
I hear you. While I don't care about Libby all that much, they said the same thing about the Freighter Four. Other than Daniel, who became hugely important, the other three got majorly shortchanged. Granted the writer's strike is mostly to blame, but the way they hyped these characters I was expecting way more from them than what we got.
I think that's a matter of perspective. Of the four freighter folks, Daniel proved to be the most important (and despite the fact that he's dead, we're not done with his story yet). Miles and Lapidus are still alive, so who knows what's in store for them. Charlotte died, but her death had a huge impact on Daniel and that was a big moment in season 5. How do you define how important new characters are? I would say at this point, Lapidus is more important than say...Mr. Eko or even Libby.
post #50 of 1932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post
I think that's a matter of perspective. Of the four freighter folks, Daniel proved to be the most important (and despite the fact that he's dead, we're not done with his story yet). Miles and Lapidus are still alive, so who knows what's in store for them. Charlotte died, but her death had a huge impact on Daniel and that was a big moment in season 5. How do you define how important new characters are? I would say at this point, Lapidus is more important than say...Mr. Eko or even Libby.
I was just comparing the Freighter Four to each other. Daniel is clearly more important in terms of his role in the time travel arc that dominated Season 5.
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