The ascending testicles of the modern male vocalist

Not Geddy Lee?

You had me until the second sentence.

I see the problem more as being a lack of well-balanced mainstream male voices than an overall lack of testosterone.

Assuming we're leaving hip-hop largely out of this (as I don't think anyone could make a good case for Kanye West or Jay-Z having androgynous voices) and not really talking about pop, either (since boyish voices have been the norm since Michael Jackson and before), the problem is really that the middle has been scooped out of the range of male voices (lyrically and vocally speaking) in popular rock music.

There are the petulant, adolescent Green Day-indebted pop-punk (call 'em emo, whatever) bands that you mention, but there's still a vast array of grunge-afterbirth 90s-holdover douchebags who are all testicle, no brain, like Nickelback, Hinder, Shinedown, Kid Rock, etc (I'll hold off on putting Kings of Leon in this list, but they come really fucking close sometimes). Sure, these bands can get mopey, but it's a "manly" mopey - cock-induced melancholy because some woman won't put out. And it's in these bands that we discover that those great testosterone-fueled bands of the past (anyone from the Stones to Van Halen) were smart, too. It's never only been about swagger.

Anyway, I'll actually give a pass to some of the songs emerging from the first category (I kind of like the Plain White T's shameless Simon & Garfunkeling and Fall-Out Boy's surprisingly adept use of lyrical and melodic hooks, even if I'd never buy an album by either), but I can't remember ever liking anything that came from the second.

Regardless, as it's been for years, anyone seeking balance in their music shouldn't be looking towards the mainstream, which is built for flash and emotionally simplistic extremes. The adult stuff that's made it to the charts in the past 30 years or so has always been the exception.

I see what you're saying but are you asking for Mike Patton to make a return because we don't have a lot of deep voiced singers? Wouldn't it depend on genre?

Of course I'd want Cookie Monster vocals to be stricken from the record. So what do I know?

I love it when DaveB talks music... even though he doesn't like Jethro Tull.

Plus, "Epic" aside, Patton's never been all that mainstream, anyway. And when he goes into one of his deepest, manliest voices (on "Land of Sunshine," for instance), it sounds kind of jokey.

They have their place, but it's nowhere near the charts, in any case. Maybe I'm assuming too much about what Justin's criticizing, but it seems to me that there's plenty of balanced, intelligent, non-melodramatically mopey masculinity existing outside of the mainstream.

It's genre based, and right now lower voiced non-whiny genres aren't charting. I remember the first time I heard Screaming Trees and Morphine, being blown away by a lead singer staying so low, unlike the infinitely copied Vedder, who, while definitely a baritone, sings higher than most listeners give him credit for.

Dave brought up Kings of Leon, and I admit I've only heard the singles, but that guy has a great voice.

Dave is completely right.

Well, we've always got Craig Finn, although The Hold Steady is pretty non-mainstream, I guess.

How about Jack White? The Black Keys?

This is why the parameters of the discussion are kind of important, because if we're talking about "popular" in terms of actually charting with consistency or in terms of being an artist that non-music fans know, White may be the only guy mentioned above who qualifies, and his voice is pretty androgynous.

I guess there are 90s holdovers like the Foo Fighters or Chili Peppers who still crack the charts, but I don't find much of that stuff all that interesting. Maybe Pearl Jam qualifies, but it's not like they release hit singles, at this point. And if we're not talking about that kind of popular success, I'm not entirely sure what we are talking about, because far-from-androgynous-and-whiny-guys like Craig Finn, Matt Berninger, and Patterson Hood aren't all that exceptional in the upper tiers of indie popularity.

You see this problem across the board in entertainment; as we increasingly market our culture towards not just teenagers, but young teenagers, you're going to get celebrities who resemble that demographic. You could argue that that's been the case since before most of us were born, but it seems like nobody is interested, period, in making entertainment for "adults" anymore. It's also why you don't see fewer "real men" than you used to; guys in movies who look like they could take a punch (Russell Crowe and Robert Downey Jr. are really the only guys who can headline a movie that looks like that...you have to get into the supporting actors to find guys like Jeffrey Dean Morgan, or on television for guys like Jeffrey Donovan or Jon Hamm or Damien Lewis), singers who looked like they knew what they were singing about, because they lived it, even if they were lying about it.

To bring it back to music, a friend and I were talking about how this applies to musical theater, and how when they were doing a revival of South Pacific, they had to go to the opera scene and Brazil to find someone to play Rene, because there simply weren't any quote-unquote "masculine" men in the theater scene anymore.

Okay, that might not have had a lot of relevance, but it's my one contribution to this thread.

I've always preferred low growly masculine voices to high whiney ones.

I've noticed the trend of high pitched male voices in music lately and it does annoy me a lot. I'd rather listen to a parody band like Dethklok from Metalocalypse than most of whats on the radio truthfully, at least Nathan Explosion has an awesome growl.

No foolin'?

That's when you know we're in trouble, when RDJ is being touted as a pillar of tough masculinity. The guy's a great actor but he's got a voice like a ponce. It's been said before but to reiterate there's still some tough-guy stars in Hollywood, but none of them are American. Somewhere John Wayne is seething. Who knows what is driving this, why our actors don't sound like they have coal in their lungs anymore even if they smoke, but I'd imagine a lot of it has to do with the way our culture has gotten more and more easygoing since the postwar era, with every decade getting more and more materialist and softbellied. In places like Australia and the UK they have pub culture and hooliganism to make up for this.

Edit: To answer the thread's main concern, get yourselves some street punk stat! Dropkick Murphys, Street Dogs, etc.

I have had more than enough Dropkick Murphys to last a lifetime, thanks. And I brought up RDJ because he's one of the few "masculine" actors that can carry a movie. I named a bunch of others, although they're all from TV, and are thus untested. Josh Holloway's another one.

I'd almost dare to say that Fucked Up does Dropkick Murphys better than the Dropkick Murphys.

Which is funny because John Wayne wasn't the manliest of men either. I often hear the guy was afraid of horses.

Either way, I want to see talent. I don't give a fuck how the manly or femmy the guy is.

Not really, I mean it's alright but not really that great.

And his real name was Marion.

Not to mention, according to this one guy I know. He was at Wayne's pad in Brentwood to install two-way mirrors so he could watch his buddies fuck. Not only that, but he answered the door in a dress.

I grew up with girls creaming their jeans over Johnny Gill, New Edition/Bobby Brown, and New Kids on the Block. Now we got Ne-Yo.

I've never understood girls getting horny, over men with girly voices.

That don't mean he was a fag. Lots of guys like to watch their buddies fuck!

I am partial hearing a male voice singing in the lower register myself; I remember being impressed by bands like Interpol, Editors, and here recently White Lies. Of course these leads all get some shit for aping Ian Curtis, when I feel its just that the low voice such the minority that critics haven't much else to compare (though on that first album Paul Banks certainly did seem to be doing his best impression). I guess I'm just partial to a lot of these post-punk bands; I remember how much love I have for the Chameleons, Joy Division, and Gang of Four.

That higher pitch can have its place; I remember quite liking Bloc Party's debut. Thom Yorke and Radiohead are among my favorites. Though they are no longer my cup of tea, Coldplay seems to be quite liked despite Chris Martin's high register; it just fits the music. Also the Appleseed Cast is another one I love (though I'm not so sure they're all that popular). But, for me anyway, it depends on the band and the context.

This disturbs me for so many reasons....

I can only assume, then, that you're very pleased Matt Freeman of Rancid seems unlikely to handle lead vocal duties again, following his band's cover of "Don't Call Me White."

I'm not familar with Rancid that much except for the singles the local radio stations overplay way too much. What I'm referring to is the stuff that exists in metal and *sighes* screamo. Yes I realize, it's *doing air quotes* screamo, but goddamn. How is this enjoyable?

"Screamo" reminds me of Brokencyde. Thanks a lot!

I don't even know what that is.

Ed, drop to your knees and thank God for that. Though I'm sure some asshole with a YouTube link will come along and ruin your perfect reality.

I wouldn't know anything about lighter male voices, I still listen to Type-O-Negative.

Jim Morrison. Andrew Eldritch from the Sisters of Mercy. Glenn Danzig. Leonard Cohen.

Seriously, Brokencyde is Two Girls One Cup for music lovers.

And to think. Something worse than Metro Station. Who knew?

Well when you put it that way Chavez, I guess they might've been more right than I gave them credit for!

Really though, it just gets a little tired; new post-punk bands with a low-voiced singer get JD comparisons, instrumental "post-rock" bands get lumped with Explosions in the Sky or GY!BE, any wall of guitar band gets compared to MBV.

Maybe its my fault for reading too many reviews.

I am eternally thankful that Greg Dulli is still making new music.

That is all.

...or at least reviewers who are terribly uncreative in their comparisons.

Nobody's listening to the blues here?

That aside, is Motorhead still around? Or do people only know about them when Sheryl Crow does their stuff?

Does someone like LL Cool J count? Shaggy?

Jens Lekman.

I have to be honest, we just don't have this problem in modern aussie rock. Male vocals are as manly as they've ever been. Sure we get your high pitched posers (we always have), but just not in the propensity they seem to be in in modern American rock.

...but then you yanks still have the odd guy like Jack White so all's not lost surely.

Brokencyde, Metro Station I have no idea what the fuck you all are talking aboot.

No mention of Tv on the Radio's Tunde Adebimpe? That voice is a beast of its own, and probably learned to raise itself in the woods.

Ya got me man. Ya got me.

Your thoughts on that new Eskimo Joe single, "Foreign Land", Rainy? Never been a huge fan of them, but that song is completely kicking my ass.

I remember Wolfmother getting pretty high up there.

Sorry Justin, but your thread has been made invalid by the existence of a guido boyband.

It's not bad mate, I was more a fan of the early, quirky Eskimo Joe than this new stadium rock reinvention post Black Fingernails, Red Wine personally, but this new songs certainly catchy.

They just seem to be attempting to position themselves as the new Powderfinger, so I guess depending on your viewpoint thats either a good or bad thing. Hey at least they'll sell a heap of records and get played in supermarkets, I just dunno whether that's my kinda thing tho.

Yeah but Ed that was different, that was more an evocation of hair metal from the eighties and the like, hardly girlie man metrosexual boy-singing.

I don't see that as qualifying personally. Andrew Stockdale has a naturally highish voice, but at least his music has some testicular fortitude.