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Post-Bush Iran

post #1 of 265
Thread Starter 
As of this thread start the Iranian elections have finished and for a nerve-wracking finale both Ahmadinejad and pro-West reformist candidate Mousavi have both declared victory. Experts say that Mousavi has the popular support but that Ahmadinejad has the establishment working for him and could easily rig the vote tallies and respond with a totalitarian crackdown.

Iran Election Results: Ahmadinejad, Rival Both Claim Election Win

Quote:
TEHRAN, Iran — Iran's interior ministry said Saturday President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad took a commanding lead with nearly 70 percent of all votes counted, but his pro-reform rival countered that he was the clear victor and warned of possible fraud in the election.

The dispute rose up even before the votes were counted _ sharply boosting tensions after an intense monthlong race between the combative president and his main challenger, Mir Hossein Mousavi, who has the backing of a growing youth-oriented movement.

Mousavi declared himself "definitely the winner" based on "all indications from all over Iran." He also alleged widespread irregularities, including closing polls with voters still waiting _ suggesting he was ready to challenge the results.

But bringing any showdown into the streets would certainly face a swift backlash from security forces, which have already issued stark warnings against unrest or any threat to the Islamic regime. A series of cyber-strikes _ text messaging blackouts, blocks on pro-Mousavi Web sites and widespread Internet disruptions _ also raised worried that authorities were prepared to exert further pressures on the communications lifelines of the rejuvenated reformist movement.

The messy and tense outcome capped a long day of voting. It was extended for several hours to accommodate a huge turnout that had people waiting for hours at polling stations in blistering heat and nighttime downpours.

Mousavi, a 1980s-era prime minister, had been counting on an outpouring from what's been called his "green tsunami" _ the signature color of his campaign and the new banner for reformists seeking wider liberties at home and a gentler face for Iran abroad. He raised hopes that a new leadership might embrace President Barack Obama's invitation to open dialogue and take a less confrontation path with the West over Iran's nuclear program.

But moments after Mousavi called a news conference to declare victory, Iran's state news agency reported that Ahmadinejad was the victor. Both claims came shortly after polls close but before any vote tallies were announced.

Before dawn, Ahmadinejad supporters weaved through Tehran's streets on motorbikes shouting "Allahu Akbar," or God is Great.
Story continues below

By early Saturday, Ahmadinejad had 65.9 percent and Mousavi had 31.1 percent with 68 percent of all votes counted, said Kamran Daneshjoo, a senior official with the Interior Ministry, which oversees the voting.

Based on figures released by the ministry, around 75 percent of the 46.2 million eligible voters went to the polls.

There was no sign of increased security, but the warnings had already been issued.

The political chief of the powerful Revolutionary Guard cautioned Wednesday it would crush any "revolution" against the Islamic regime by Mousavi's "green movement." The interior ministry said all rallies or political gatherings would be banned until after the formal announcement of results later Saturday.

Mousavi, however, was equally harsh _ accusing the Islamic establishment was "manipulating the people's vote" to keep Ahmadinejad in power.

"I'll pursue this. I won't give us. There is no way back," he said.

During the voting, some communications across Iran were disrupted. Internet connections slowed dramatically in some spots, hindering the operations of news organizations including The Associated Press. It was not immediately clear what had caused the disruptions.

About a dozen Ahmadinejad supporters pelted a Mousavi office in Tehran with tear gas canisters, but no one was injured, said Saeed Shariati, head of Mousavi's Web campaign. The attack could not be independently confirmed.

Iran does not allow international election monitors. The ruling clerics, however, put their stamp on the elections from the very beginning by deciding who can run. More than 470 people sought to join the presidential race, but only Ahmadinejad and three rivals were cleared.

During the 2005 election, there were some allegations of vote rigging from losers, but the claims were never investigated.

The rush to the polls reflected the intensity of the campaign that riveted the world's attention for its wide-open passions and Western-style tactics, including a savvy Web campaign and all-night street parties by Mousavi's young backers.

Some waited for hours in temperatures that hit 113 degrees (45 C) in Iran's central desert. In Tehran, a bride in her wedding gown cast her ballot. Families making traditional Friday visits to relatives' graves filed into polling stations in the capital's sprawling cemetery.

The outcome, however, will not sharply alter Iran's main policies or sway major decisions, such as possible talks with Washington. Those crucial issues rest with the ruling clerics headed by the unelected Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

But the election focused on what the office can influence: boosting Iran's sinking economy, pressing for greater media and political freedoms, and being Iran's main envoy to the world.

Only weeks ago, Ahmadinejad (Ah-mad-in-A-jad) seemed ready to coast to re-election with the reformist ranks in disarray. But Mousavi's bid began to gain traction with young voters with his Web outreach and hip "green" rallies. Suddenly, the 67-year-old Mousavi (Mou-sa-VI) became the surprise hero of a powerful youth-driven movement and heading into the vote, it looked like the momentum was with him.

In Washington, Obama said the "robust debate" during the campaign suggests a possibility of change in Iran, which is under intense international pressure over its nuclear program.

"Ultimately the election is for the Iranians to decide," said Obama. "But ... you're seeing people looking at new possibilities. And whoever ends up winning the election in Iran, the fact that there's been a robust debate hopefully will help advance our ability to engage them in new ways."

After casting her ballot at a mosque in central Tehran, 23-year-old Mahnaz Mottagh said: "I hope to defeat Ahmadinejad today."

Outside the same polling station, 29-year-old Abbas Rezai said he, his wife and his sister-in-law all voted for Ahmadinejad.

"We will have him as a president for another term, for sure," he said.

Iranians around the world also took part in the vote. In Dubai, home to an estimated 200,000 Iranians, the streets around the polling station at the Iranian consulate were jammed with voters overwhelmingly favoring Mousavi.

"He is our Obama," said Maliki Zadehamid, a 39-year-old exporter.

In southern California and elsewhere in the U.S., Iranian expatriates and their children gathered at voting sites set up in hotels and mosques and staffed by volunteers. Many said they were voting for Mousavi.

Shahab Baniadam, 51, said he had been in the United States for 30 years and was voting in an Iranian election for the first time, casting his ballot for Mousavi because he "seems like a reasonable person."

In Tehran's affluent northern districts _ which strongly back Mousavi _ voters waited for up to an hour to cast ballots. Mahdi Hosseini, a university student, sharply criticized Ahmadinejad for "degrading Iran's image in the eyes of the world."

Ahmadinejad brought international condemnation by repeatedly questioning the Holocaust.

Mousavi also hammered Ahmadinejad for mismanaging the economy, burdened by double-digit inflation and chronic unemployment despite vast oil and gas riches. And, for the first time in Iran, the forces of the Web were fully harnessed in an election showdown and catapulted Mousavi into political star.

Mousavi's stunning rise also has been helped by his popular and charismatic wife, former university dean Zahra Rahnavard, and their joint calls for more rights and political clout for women. Iranian women work in nearly all levels of society _ including as parliament members. But they face legal restrictions on issues such as inheritance and court testimony, where their say is considered only half as credible as a man's.

After casting his vote in the white ballot box, the Supreme Leader Khamenei urged Iranians to remain calm.

"As far as I see and hear, passion and motivation is very high among people," Khamenei told reporters. "If some intend to create tension, this will harm people."

The race will go to a runoff on June 19 if no candidate receives a simple majority of more than 50 percent of the votes cast. Two other candidates _ conservative former Revolutionary Guard commander Mohsen Rezaei and moderate former parliament speaker Mahdi Karroubi _ only got a fraction of the votes, according to the interior ministry's results.
Humorously enough some Neocons have been rooting for Ahmadinejad, preferring the asshole they want to fight to the guy they can work with.

Hopefully in a short amount of time Ahmadinejad will be gone and Iran will be turning a corner.
post #2 of 265
The problem is that the way elections in Iran are done and the system behind them is structured, the ruling candidate can simply change results, and except yelling really loud and being pissed, you cant get him for it. The system is rigged to the extreme.
My girlfriend (she studied.. hmm hows it called in english... well, arabian culture, history and islam etc.) has friends in Iran who went there after 9/11 to defend their country if needed, and are seriously depressed about never getting out of this rigged system by legal means.
I certainly hope stuff changes, but until then, anything but a total landslide will probably be covered up, messed with, and keep the current leader in power.
post #3 of 265
I just saw John Bolton on Fox News saying "Either we'll have a guy who builds nukes and talks about destroying Israel or we'll have a guy who doesn't advertise the fact that he's building nukes and wants to destroy Israel."

Essentially, I saw John Bolton confirming himself once again as a first-class cunt.

And if it does get out that voter-tampering happened again, I wonder how the losing party will respond. Will it be 'oh well, next time' or will it be the straw that breaks the camel's back?
post #4 of 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Shake View Post
I just saw John Bolton on Fox News saying "Either we'll have a guy who builds nukes and talks about destroying Israel or we'll have a guy who doesn't advertise the fact that he's building nukes and wants to destroy Israel."

Essentially, I saw John Bolton confirming himself once again as a first-class cunt.

And if it does get out that voter-tampering happened again, I wonder how the losing party will respond. Will it be 'oh well, next time' or will it be the straw that breaks the camel's back?
Yeah, kind of a dick move (tm) by Bolton.

It'll be pretty interesting, and dare I say, important for how the immediate future of the middle east may look.
You really, REALLY dont want things heating up in Iran at all.
post #5 of 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaunshar View Post
You really, REALLY dont want things heating up in Iran at all.
If it's the people heating up over a rigged election than that's good. Iran doesn't have the religous nut jobs Pakistan does so a huge show dissent for Ahmadinejad is a good thing.
post #6 of 265
Iran is going to continue to pursue nuclear weapons no matter who rules the country.

The Iraq war has shown the world (or confirmed) that a nuclear deterrent is the best safeguard against someone like, oh let's say, the US, from invading your country and shitting all over it.

Regarding the election in Iran, this morning the Ayatollah came out to confirm the incumbent party. So I'm guessing we'll see some street protests for a few days at most.
post #7 of 265
Things heating up in Iran basically plays into the hands of the extremist, which isnt something we want, no matter over what reasons. Because frankly, it doesnt lead to change, it leads to violence, oppression of entire demographics and frustration, which drives esp. young males into the open arms of islamistic extremists.
A good, lasting change that doesnt destabilize the country will by necessity not be something fought over in the streets a few days after an election.
Democracy is just not something that big to these people there when compared to other problems. A head of state can get away with election fraud as long as he manages to appease a few of the needs and fears of the people afterwards.
I know us westerners cannot really understand that, but these people rather have a job now, than a democracy tomorrow.

And yeah, nuclear weapons seem to be the only way to avoid random invasions by the USA if you listen to their reasoning .I hope that isnt reality. But it sure looks that way a bit, so I assume Iran isnt going to stop in that department... and seriously, why should they?
post #8 of 265
Ahmadinejad 'victory' sparks mass protests

Quote:
HARDLINE incumbent Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has won a crushing victory in Iran's hotly-disputed presidential vote, according to official results yesterday that triggered mass opposition protests.

Riot police were out in Tehran last night as thousands of supporters of his defeated rival, Mir Hossein Mousavi, took to the streets shouting "down with the dictator" after final results showed Mr Ahmadinejad winning almost 63 per cent of the vote.

Moderate former prime minister Mr Mousavi cried foul over election irregularities and warned of the "dangerous scenario" the vote had created, as some of his protesting supporters were beaten by baton-wielding police.

The Interior Ministry said Mr Mousavi had won less than 34 per cent of the vote, giving Mr Ahmadinejad another four-year term in a result that dashed Western hopes of a thaw in relations with the Islamic republic.

Mr Mousavi, one of Mr Ahmadinejad's three rivals in the most heated election campaign since the Islamic revolution in 1979, had earlier declared himself the victor, setting the scene for a tense power struggle.

The international community has been keenly watching the election for any signs of a shift in policy after four years of hardline rhetoric and a stand-off over Iran's nuclear drive.

Mr Mousavi said he "protested vigorously against the numerous and blatant irregularities" in the vote, which officials said attracted a record turn out of about 85 per cent of the 46.2 million electorate.

In the heart of Tehran, thousands of angry Mousavi supporters voiced their disbelief and frustration at the results, with some pelting stones at police who struck back with batons.
post #9 of 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaunshar View Post
Things heating up in Iran basically plays into the hands of the extremist, which isnt something we want, no matter over what reasons. Because frankly, it doesnt lead to change, it leads to violence, oppression of entire demographics and frustration, which drives esp. young males into the open arms of islamistic extremists.
I don't know much about Iran but aren't the ones protesting The more progresive Iranians? And that the ones holding onto power are the more religous?

And from what little Ive read and seen the youth of Iran aren't the ones who would joing a jihad against America or a terrorist group.

The violence is an obvious bad thing but I'm digging the protests. I'd rather the Iranian people fight to change their country than the U.S. Army.
post #10 of 265
Not really, no.

See, Ahmadinejad (sp?) isnt really that big on religious zeal. However, the religious faction in Iran is really powerful, and partially involved in politics, so he has to play nice to them. Thats the case for his challenger too, mind you, because even if the head of state changes, the religious behind-the-scenes influences dont.

Neither of those candidates is particularly engaged in the religious side for real, and the people in Iran know that for the most part, esp. those in cities where we now see riots.

If you havent had the chance to watch "Syriana", you may want to consider having a look at one of the storylines about young boys, unemployed and without a future, being recruited by a jihadi organization. These groups are fucking good at that game. The movie doesnt exaggerate the slightest.
Because frankly, a lot of them dont approach our young iranian male saying "Hey Bro, wanna blow up americans?" Its a slow, carefully done and really convincing process, and when you are young, have no work, no wife (expensive due to the traditions about marriage) and very little to look forward to, you may just join this friendly, small-scale islam brotherhood that offered you a little job, a pat on the back, and an open ear to complain to.
Bombs, AKs and Stinger Missles dont enter the equation until MUCH later. Hell, often the guys doing those attacks dont even know what they actually are bombing, because they may have been told its a meeting of their families worst enemies or something like that.

Brainwashing works anywhere on this world, sadly. And whenever frustration, anger and poverty are on the rise, these small cells get a lot of shiny new recruits, which not 2 years later may be doing stuff they were fervently against back when they still had the luxury to care.

I wish you were right and people who go to college, school, want change etc. were proof against the lure of fundamentalism. Sadly, they are not.

Sidenote: There was a TV series named "Generation:Kill" not too long ago. I think it was the 5th or 6th episode where the US soldiers come across a dead guy, who just a few weeks before was an enrolled student in a leftist college in syria (I think? may even have been iran, its just a short scene) who came over to the Iraq to fight, not for religious purposes, but because he thought the USA had no place to mess with this part of the world.

That was based on reality. Not everyone opposing the west does so out of religious motivation or due to influence of religious leaders. They got their share of fiercely nationalistic rightwingers too.
post #11 of 265
post #12 of 265
Thread Starter 
post #13 of 265
post #14 of 265
Oddly enough, so very few people remember the President of Iran has no control over Foreign Policy or the Military. So honestly it really doesn't matter who wins the election.
post #15 of 265
Since thats the case, why would Ali Khamenei allow the election to be rigged? Wouldn't he want his people to be satisfied with their choice for president, seeing as he will be the true ruler anyway?
post #16 of 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordelsey View Post
Oddly enough, so very few people remember the President of Iran has no control over Foreign Policy or the Military. So honestly it really doesn't matter who wins the election.
Um, it kinda does to the Iranians I think you'll find.
post #17 of 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultraman Mac View Post
Since thats the case, why would Ali Khamenei allow the election to be rigged? Wouldn't he want his people to be satisfied with their choice for president, seeing as he will be the true ruler anyway?
It doesnt quite work like that. Its a pretty complicated little dance the supreme leader and the president are doing there. Basically, Khamenei has a lot of power in foreign politics and military, but he seems to rather meddle in stuff where the president has a lot of pull, esp. day-to-day life. So its a trade-off, and if he is happy with Ahmadi-Nejad, and/or thinks he can get his ideas through with him easier than with Mousavi, he may just turn a blind eye to the election.
No one single person holds the power in Iran, and the two which hold most of it often prefer the other side of the fence, so to speak.

Also, these people there are rioting because THEIR lives are largely influenced by the powers of the president. I dont think right now they care much about military and foreign politics at all. We are not their worry.
post #18 of 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post
Um, it kinda does to the Iranians I think you'll find.
Oh, RD, nobody really cares about those silly brown people!

I went to go get my hair cut yesterday and I walked in to see my friend with the most sour look on her face I've ever seen. I decided not to ask her about the election, obviously, but she mentioned that she's headed back home to Tehran to visit family in late July/early August and is really not looking forward to it.
post #19 of 265
Holy shit, this is getting out of hand rather quickly. German news crews have been arrested, told they werent allowed to shoot footage of basically anything, and a german news technician disappeared after having been taken by armed uniformed guys, gone for a couple hours now.

Also, according to Huffington Post (well, actually according to whoever they leeched that news from) iranian people are trying to shut down websites and tv services of pro-ahmadi-nejad stations.
post #20 of 265
Thread Starter 
It's getting beyond that even. Clerics are floating the idea of deposing Khomeni, and groups of protesters have been seizing arms caches. Tanks are out in front of the Interior Ministry. Revolution may be in the air.
post #21 of 265
I saw this linked from HuffPo.

GPS panel from CNN discussing Iran.

I hate to just link and run, so I like that they seem to know the politics of the people and the country well. What's interesting to note is that they seem to think that the youth have the upper hand in the battle between the new and old guard. This could be a desperate power grab from a coalition of the hard-line right and Islamists.

I know that the elections have been seen as a fraud for a while, but it seems like the diffusion of power in recent years within Iran has made people give a shit about who the president actually is. I mean, this is something kinda new for Iran, right?

The demographics are what are amazing. This country is fucking young right now. The generational stuff has to mean something.
post #22 of 265
This article from Time highlights another reason Iranian youth are dissatisfied with the status quo.
post #23 of 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaunshar View Post
Sidenote: There was a TV series named "Generation:Kill" not too long ago. I think it was the 5th or 6th episode where the US soldiers come across a dead guy, who just a few weeks before was an enrolled student in a leftist college in syria (I think? may even have been iran, its just a short scene) who came over to the Iraq to fight, not for religious purposes, but because he thought the USA had no place to mess with this part of the world.
Yes, Syria was a huge foreign fighter issue a few years ago however we've had some recent success in shutting down those pipelines. There hasn't been much evidence of similar Iranian foreign fighters, partly because the population is largely Shia whereas Al-Qaida is Sunni. For awhile there Zarqawi was killing more Shia than Coalition forces. What Iran has done instead is provide state military training and financial support to the Shia militias through paramilitary groups like the Quds force, however this has also since died down.

As for this revolution, it is certainly not a bad thing for the US considering at the very least Iran's regime loses some credibility and they will be forced into making concessions just to save face from the backlash. Iran has always been able to take the high ground in claiming that their government is supported by the people, however recent events seriously bring that to question as issues are raised about it's dictatorship and it's brutal suppression efforts. Obama's administration will certainly have to tread carefully however, this isn't an easy diplomatic situation to handle at all.

Going along with that Syriana reference, wanting a grass roots uprising to rout out the Ayatollah's was indeed a desired goal put forth, as evident in George Clooney's job interview as well as the cabal of influential people going to meetings about the overthrow of Iran. It would be pretty sweet if the US had a role in this uprising.
post #24 of 265
What really strikes me is the boldness with which the young people of Iran are protesting - are they really that courageous, or do they feel confident that they have the upper hand in this struggle? Or possibly, is the Iranian goverment not as mean as the American media likes to pretend it is?



These don't seem like the actions of people who fear for thier lives. I don't think you would see this kind of behavior coming out of North Korea (or even China for that matter).
post #25 of 265
They're hyped up. It's a demographic revolution. Historic events.

This is weird because this has been a topic of conversation all week. I've been trying to impress upon whoever I talk to about the Iranian election that the country is far more progressive than the government, and that the reformist opposition is way more popular than its been portrayed in Western media (I'm friendly with an Iranian professor who is heavily involved in all of this, he's a fantastic talk).

Two things: it's a little bit headspinning, seeing what's happening here. And it's more than a bit stomach turning to contemplate how different things would be today (I mean - TODAY) if America (or one of its allies) had decided to bomb Iranian facilities late last year - something which I understand was very seriously considered, to the point of contingency orders being drawn up in the military.
post #26 of 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Lively View Post
What really strikes me is the boldness with which the young people of Iran are protesting - are they really that courageous, or do they feel confident that they have the upper hand in this struggle? Or possibly, is the Iranian goverment not as mean as the American media likes to pretend it is?



These don't seem like the actions of people who fear for thier lives. I don't think you would see this kind of behavior coming out of North Korea (or even China for that matter).
What are you trying to say? That the government should now surpress the protestors by with more violence because you don't think the protestors mean it enough? Well, they're getting shot now for demonstrating a suspicious election. I hope that those "young people" mean it enough for you when they get their heads blown off.
post #27 of 265
The way the youth and protesters are using Twitter to organize and inform the world about what's going down is striking, amazing, and sometimes heartbreaking. I just hope it doesn't culminate in Tienanmen Sqaure II, deaths, and another 20 years of regression for Iran.

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/06/15...ction-upr.html
http://twitter.com/persiankiwi
http://twitter.com/change_for_iran
post #28 of 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cordo View Post
What are you trying to say? That the government should now surpress the protestors by with more violence because you don't think the protestors mean it enough? Well, they're getting shot now for demonstrating a suspicious election. I hope that those "young people" mean it enough for you when they get their heads blown off.
Huh? In case it didn't come accross, I'm pleasantly surprised by the amount of protesting going on, and wish them success.

Still, the very fact that the protests have gone on as long as they have tells me that their government is not as "mean" (read: totalitarian, draconian) as the American media has portrayed them as.
post #29 of 265
The Chinese dissidents protested for a few days before being run over by tanks and whatnot. Ahmadinijad still has time to demonstrate dictatorial douchebaggery.
post #30 of 265
I find it kinda sad that these Iranian kids have shown more desire towards upholding the standards of democracy than America has in decades.

On a side note, I'd just like to hand out a hearty "FUCK YOU" to CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, Headline News, The Washington Post, basically ALL forms of traditional American news media for being a bunch of assholes and both not running stories on this potentially huge shitstorm brewing out East and mocking the only tools where news of this impending shitstorm have been able to get out.
post #31 of 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Lively View Post
Huh? In case it didn't come accross, I'm pleasantly surprised by the amount of protesting going on, and wish them success.

Still, the very fact that the protests have gone on as long as they have tells me that their government is not as "mean" (read: totalitarian, draconian) as the American media has portrayed them as.
You're pretty far out there, aren't you?
post #32 of 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Shake View Post
I find it kinda sad that these Iranian kids have shown more desire towards upholding the standards of democracy than America has in decades.
Granted, the government here doesn't have sanctioned morality squads or will execute gays on site. So it's not quite the same thing.

Not to mention dissension won't risk you a jail term here.
post #33 of 265
Here's an amazing collection of photos from the last few days:

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/200..._election.html

Edit: 28 and 29 are incredible
post #34 of 265
Amazing stuff.

And I wish to christ Ahmadinejad would take that windbreaker off.
post #35 of 265
From the comments from the last link I posted:

Quote:
Your Holiness Grand Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri,
I am quite sure that you are watching all that is going on in Iran. I know in my heart that you want to do something to stop the killing of innocent people that only want change. I know this because of our email exchanges many years ago during your house arrest.
I beg you to stand up against these murderers because unless we have the Grand Ayatollahs standing up and go against Khamenei and his killing machine, we shall see more bloodshed on the streets of Iran.
Please stand up, we are going to have innocent people murdered anyway, why not go all the way. We did thirty years ago when you along with others stood against the Shah.
I beg you Grand Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri, please stand up against the current ruling class.
May Allah bless upon you.
Kindest regards,
Shahin
USA
Combined with those photos, including a murdered protester...
Goosebumps.
post #36 of 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Lively View Post
Still, the very fact that the protests have gone on as long as they have tells me that their government is not as "mean" (read: totalitarian, draconian) as the American media has portrayed them as.
What the hell is wrong with you? So these protests (which the government prohibited the losing candidate from participating, he had to ask permission) are a sign of the openness of the government?

It almost seems that your standards for freedom here are if they're not nuking or mowing down protesters then the country is not that "repressive".
post #37 of 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Lively View Post
Still, the very fact that the protests have gone on as long as they have tells me that their government is not as "mean" (read: totalitarian, draconian) as the American media has portrayed them as.
Yeah, they're actually misunderstood sweethearts.
post #38 of 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdHocken View Post
And I wish to christ Ahmadinejad would take that windbreaker off.
No way. He loves his Members Only jackets.
post #39 of 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake View Post
No way. He loves his Members Only jackets.
It's not actually. It has the color of one, though. Although I want to know if that's the only one he has or has a closet full of them?
post #40 of 265
I'd advise everyone to e-mail Twitter if they can to tell them to postpone the scheduled maintenance that will take Twitter offline for 90 minutes this evening. Twitter is in some places the one avenue of protest some of these people have. And if they go down for that period who knows what could happen.
post #41 of 265
I don't use Twitter but I'll request they postpose the manintenance. What's the email address?
post #42 of 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Shake View Post
I find it kinda sad that these Iranian kids have shown more desire towards upholding the standards of democracy than America has in decades.
Heh? There's been nothing in recent history that's been worth attempting to overthrow our government for. The 2000 elections would be a stretch if that's what you're thinking of, and the race was so close in that instance it wouldn't have been worth it and the supreme court did look at the results anyway. As evident in this last election season young people's voices are heard in our elections, there's been no notable cases of voter fraud.

Quote:
On a side note, I'd just like to hand out a hearty "FUCK YOU" to CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, Headline News, The Washington Post, basically ALL forms of traditional American news media for being a bunch of assholes and both not running stories on this potentially huge shitstorm brewing out East and mocking the only tools where news of this impending shitstorm have been able to get out.
This is pretty disconcerting, however you can't really blame them all that much considering they've all been kicked out and the entire country has been shut down for the most part. The majority of this story is being led by Twitter posts and phone camera videos. Some written publications are doing better jobs but then again they don't have to worry about dragging around bulky, attention drawing TV cameras.
post #43 of 265
...and now the government pushback really kicks into gear, were they behind this one wonders, using these supporters as proxy or is this simply the logical outcome of two groups of protestors from opposite sides of this incredibly charged issue.

Will this lead to a fullblown war in the streets?

Iran protester slain after pro-reform rally

Quote:
Gunfire from a compound used by pro-government militia has killed one demonstrator after hundreds of thousands of opponents of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad massed in central Teheran to cheer their pro-reform leader in his first public appearance since elections that he alleges were marred by fraud.

A group of demonstrators with fuel canisters attempted to set fire to the compound of a volunteer militia linked to Iran's powerful Revolutionary Guard as the crowd dispersed from Azadi, or Freedom, Square after dark. As some attempted to storm the building, people inside could be seen firing directly at the demonstrators at the northern edge of the square, away from the heart of the demonstration.

An AP photographer saw one person fatally shot and several others who appeared to be seriously wounded.
This could end up being the biggest social unrest in Iran for thirty years.

ETA: Christ, now we've gone from one to 'seven' killed...

Seven protesters slain at pro-reform rally

Quote:
Seven people have been killed after a massive opposition rally in the heart of Tehran against the re-election of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad turned violent, state radio says.

Tyres, dustbins and motorbikes were set ablaze by protesters as hundreds of thousands of Iranians took to the streets in a public outpouring of anger reminiscent of the days of the Islamic revolution in 1979.

State radio says at least seven civilians were killed when ``thugs'' attacked and vandalised government buildings at the end of the rally, which had been banned by the authorities as an illegal gathering.

"A military post was attacked with the intention of looting its weapons. Unfortunately, seven of our citizens were killed and a number of them injured,'' the radio said on Tuesday.
This really seems like years of pentup generational frustration coming to a head. I pray it'll end positively and not with a bloodbath.
post #44 of 265
"U.S. State Department speaks to Twitter over Iran"
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssT...01137420090616

Quote:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. State Department contacted the social networking service Twitter over the weekend to urge it to delay a planned upgrade that could have cut daytime service to Iranians, a U.S. official said on Tuesday.

"We highlighted to them that this was an important form of communication," said the official of the conversation the department had with Twitter at the time of the disputed Iranian election. He declined further details.
And breaking; Iran's supreme leader calls for unity, and meets with 4 pres. candidates envoys (via CNN/AP)
post #45 of 265
As much as the pendulum of hotness was swinging away from Twitter in the past few months, the Iranian election has made Twitter essential.
post #46 of 265
Five bucks says this is all actually a ploy by Twitter to increase their waning relevance. You devious bastards, I'm on to you!
post #47 of 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
And breaking; Iran's supreme leader calls for unity, and meets with 4 pres. candidates envoys (via CNN/AP)
Even if Ahmadinejad stays in power, I hope that Mousavi uses his newfound influence to bring about a change in the way Iran is run. They can't ignore the fact that hundreds of thousands of their young, educated citizens seem to hate them (now more than ever).

They'll have trouble running a country with their only support coming from the backwater, uneducated populace (although god knows Bush tried).
post #48 of 265
Venezuela "supports" president Ahmadinejad and blames the whole turmoil on "outside forces".

http://www.noticias24.com/actualidad...ra-iran-video/
(In Spanish)

Assholes.
post #49 of 265

Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri denounced the election

This is huge.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_215189.html

Did not think we'd see this massive explosion of outrage.

What's interesting is that the incumbent regime is trying to co-opt the situation by coming up with their own mass protests and announcing they would conduct a partial recount.
post #50 of 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Lively View Post
Even if Ahmadinejad stays in power, I hope that Mousavi uses his newfound influence to bring about a change in the way Iran is run. They can't ignore the fact that hundreds of thousands of their young, educated citizens seem to hate them (now more than ever).

Mousavi will have about as much influence in Iran after the coming crackdown as the Chinese dissidents did in China after Tieneman square.
You seem to be suffering from a severe reality deficet.
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