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Empire's "100 Greatest Games of all time!"

post #1 of 44
Thread Starter 
http://www.empireonline.com/100greatestgames/

So, a big damn list it is....whats the chewers opinion on it?
(and yeah, maybe I should have posted it in the drafts and lists" forums, but come on...we have a videogame forum too)
post #2 of 44
COD 4 at number 4 of ALL TIME ?

A little too soon for that.
post #3 of 44
Normally I'd do the whole 'Empire aren't well known for their lists' spiel but the first choice I come across is Speedball and I can't hate a list that includes Speedball in it's 100 greatest games list.

I don't get why lists like this don't have a general index, so much easier than having to manually click through each entry.

Interesting to see Okami so low down. That was kind of a critical darling (largely because it was beautiful and a lot of fun to play) that never seemed to gel with the public despite being essentially a zelda game.

Is this an editorial or public list? If it's the latter it might explain why CoD 4 is there. Plus it's a British magazine and CoD 4's one of the few games which has British characters kicking ass.
post #4 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
Is this an editorial or public list? If it's the latter it might explain why CoD 4 is there. Plus it's a British magazine and CoD 4's one of the few games which has British characters kicking ass.
I think it was a public, "readers vote" list.
post #5 of 44
Good to see Homeworld getting some love.
post #6 of 44
Ravenhold is HL2's high point? Bullshit.
post #7 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick View Post
Good to see Homeworld getting some love.
""Kharak... is burning..."

Motherfucker, that was what, the secon mission? The combination of music, dialogue and gameplay there killed me.
post #8 of 44
The only real problem I have is including multiple entries of the same series in different slots. Three seperate Zeldas and and three seperate Marios? I could forgive Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time (and Super Mario World and Mario 64. And Super Metroid and Metroid Prime) because those represented two fundamentally different gaming experiences and an evolutionary leap in player interaction, but there's no need for Twilight Princess and Mario Galaxy, too. And Halo and Halo 3? They're essentially the same fucking game. Just do one 'Halo Trilogy' entry and leave it at that.

Black and White also really doesn't belong on 100 Best Games list. And I'd argue that BioShock doesn't, either, but at least they ranked System Shock 2 higher, so I can live with it. Though I'd definitely put Deus Ex ahead of BioShock.

I was glad to see Thief II and Homeworld included, though I would've ranked them both much higher.
post #9 of 44
Bioshock totally deserves to be on the list. It's a remarkably well put together game which had a sense of artistry and wonderment and scope that few consoles games ever achieved.
post #10 of 44
Total Bullshit List. Just another page impressions click-generator.
After I discovered the 4th Super Mario game in the top 20 I stopped.
post #11 of 44
I agree with the odd choice, but on the whole that list strikes me as a big smelly pile of poo.
post #12 of 44
I got sucked into it and the only comment I have is how can L4D possibly be rated higher than Counter Strike?
post #13 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
I don't get why lists like this don't have a general index, so much easier than having to manually click through each entry.
Yeah, it's why I usually don't bother with these things. It's an annoying format when readers likely have no interest in many of the titles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fafhrd View Post
The only real problem I have is including multiple entries of the same series in different slots. Three seperate Zeldas and and three seperate Marios? I could forgive Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time (and Super Mario World and Mario 64. And Super Metroid and Metroid Prime) because those represented two fundamentally different gaming experiences and an evolutionary leap in player interaction, but there's no need for Twilight Princess and Mario Galaxy, too. And Halo and Halo 3? They're essentially the same fucking game. Just do one 'Halo Trilogy' entry and leave it at that.
Yeah, it's kind of a mess in that it's trying to be a "best EVER" list while also tucking in "most influential" games all over the place. They needed to pick one or the other. (almost)Everyone knows Mario 3 is still the best damn Mario, and it's not even on the list. Same goes for GTA: San Andreas in that series.

Any one of these lists that lacks a Pac-Man or Pong is in serious trouble from the get-go. Or fuck, even a Mega Man or Castlevania. Not many old games on the list overall.

It was nice to see Out of the World, Eternal Darkness, and Dungeon Keeper 2(they picked the wrong one but oh well), but it's still pretty predictable. I usually love Empire, but I think they should stick with film.
post #14 of 44
How did Final Fantasy 3/6 not make the cut?

Lists are bullshit and online lists are elephantshit and yadda yadda, but that really baffles me.
post #15 of 44
First one I randomly clicked on is Final Fantasy 8. Final Fantasy 8 fucking sucks.
post #16 of 44
"...the disappointment that was Mario Kart 64"....?

Suck my dick.
post #17 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renn Brown View Post
"...the disappointment that was Mario Kart 64"....?

Suck my dick.
Agreed. Still my personal favorite. Double Dash or Mario Kart Wii would be a better choice as far as disappointments, although the actual racing in Double Dash was pretty great.
post #18 of 44
I felt the top 10 was pretty solid. It covered some of the classics from each genre. 2D platform, 3D platform, adventure, JRPG, three great first person shooters, 2D Fighter, Strategy and an MMO.

I do generally agree that lists are shit, but I've certainly sunk a lot of time into those top 10 games.
post #19 of 44
No Mortal Kombat 2?
post #20 of 44
Call of Duty 4 being in the top 10 doesn't bother me so much as there being 5 Mario games on the list, and none of them are Mario 3. Fuck that noise.

Also, someday, whatever voodoo priest they have doing magicks for Rare is going to die of dysentery, all his spells will wear off, people will wake up and realize Donkey Kong Country sucks.
post #21 of 44
Lemmings should be higher, and it should be GTA Vice City not GTA 3 - after all that is the game that really made Rockstar the giant it is today.

And how can you have a top 100 and not include pac man?
post #22 of 44
Nice to see Portal getting some love, but the list overall has FAR too many sequels and duplicates.
post #23 of 44
I'm surprised that the fanboy appropriation of Portal hasn't diminished it's appeal. I know I got sick of cake jokes about a week after the release of the Orange Box.
post #24 of 44
It might have something to do with my living FAR FAR away from that sort of rabid fanboyism. I think I've only ever met 1 other person who's even played the game.
post #25 of 44
I only looked at the top ten (fuck them for not having a list) and it's OK, I guess. Except for COD4 being ahead of Doom in a list about the greatest games of all time. Really Empire? Really? Make that a double insult for not having a Half-Life game in the top ten, too.
post #26 of 44
no X-COM on the list is just criminal
post #27 of 44
What the fuck @ no Mario 3?

What the FUCK at Chrono Trigger being so low.

...
post #28 of 44
WOW!!! What a...Horrible list!
Double Dragon only 97?
Super Contra 84?
Gauntlet 61?

Worse they left off...
Konami's X-Men
Sega's Star Wars Trilogy
Sega's Star Wars
SNK's Metal Slug, and King Of Fighters
Marvel Vs Capcom 2
Indiana Jones And The Temple Of Doom

No Space Invaders, Pac Man, Donkey Kong, Battlezone, Time Pilot, After Burner, ETC. The List of 100 greatest games...UGH!!!!
post #29 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by duke fleed View Post
WOW!!! What a...Horrible list!
Double Dragon only 97?
Super Contra 84?
Gauntlet 61?

Worse they left off...
Konami's X-Men
Sega's Star Wars Trilogy
Sega's Star Wars
SNK's Metal Slug, and King Of Fighters
Marvel Vs Capcom 2
Indiana Jones And The Temple Of Doom

No Space Invaders, Pac Man, Donkey Kong, Battlezone, Time Pilot, After Burner, ETC. The List of 100 greatest games...UGH!!!!
It's rare, but I agree with fleed in spirit. Not surprising considering it's a reader's poll, but collective gamer memory seems to stop before 1989 these days, and it's sad as hell.
post #30 of 44
Is Earthbound on this list? I'm not going to click 100 times to go through this.
post #31 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdHocken View Post
Is Earthbound on this list? I'm not going to click 100 times to go through this.
No its is not.
And now i feel like a plague carrier, dammit...that list has some great choices, but i agree with you guys that most of it sucks.
post #32 of 44
It isn't? Then fuck this list.
post #33 of 44
It's basically a greatest PC games list with a few console games sprinkled in.
post #34 of 44
Final Fantasy VII at number 2? What a bunch of shitheads.
post #35 of 44
A true "Greatest" list would be composed solely of Tim Schafer titles.

That list looks like voting in the popular kids.
post #36 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
... collective gamer memory seems to stop before 1989 these days, and it's sad as hell.
This is why I hate most aspects of "video game culture". I'm younger than30, but people saying they cried during Braid because of the story make me feel like a grandpa. I only read through the top 10, and I'd agree with some and not others. I know I'm the odd man out, but I prefer Super Mario World to Mario 3. Of course, I also prefer A Link To The Past over Ocarina of Time when talking Zelda games, so make of that what you will. But seeing COD4 in the top 10 and hearing that Pac-Man isn't on there makes me feel like Carl Fredricksen.
post #37 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by wydren View Post
This is why I hate most aspects of "video game culture". I'm younger than30, but people saying they cried during Braid because of the story make me feel like a grandpa. I only read through the top 10, and I'd agree with some and not others. I know I'm the odd man out, but I prefer Super Mario World to Mario 3. Of course, I also prefer A Link To The Past over Ocarina of Time when talking Zelda games, so make of that what you will.
There isn't a bad choice among. My fear is there'll be some mouthbreathing fuckwit who thinks Mario Galaxy or Twilight Princess trumps 'em all.
post #38 of 44
I hate Braid.
post #39 of 44
This list is invalidated by the lack of MGS or MGS4 in the top 10.
post #40 of 44
Don't even get me started, kids.
post #41 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Augustine View Post
It's basically a greatest PC games list with a few console games sprinkled in.
With all those Mario and Metal Gear games, it is the opposite of a greatest PC games list.

Another missing game - M.U.L.E.
post #42 of 44
On a more positive note, it was nice to see Planescape: Torment get some love (#11). But yeah, lists meh, etc.
post #43 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verbal Kint View Post
This list is invalidated by the lack of MGS or MGS4 in the top 10.
I'm actually fine with that.

As for WoW being 3, I don't even consider it a "game," but rather social networking with game aspects.

It's the top 10 is a "Most recognizable games of all time" list.
post #44 of 44
FF VII is the #1 Game of All Time on a reader-poll list? Quelle surprise.

Games You Probably Like, But Shouldn't: Final Fantasy VII

Oh, I'm madly in love with this piece right now. If this game had ankles, I'd totally go Kathy Bates on it with a sledgehammer. Or rather, on some of the fanbois who have somehow inexplicably managed to sustain the lifecycle of this dull, anemic game far, far beyond its point of natural heat-death.

In Final Fantasy VI, every single major character received substantial development, and arcs that enabled their growth within the storyline. Not in FF VII, though. There are several supporting characters and NPCs, and the opportunity was there for some great interaction and relationships among the cast. However, despite the fact that leading figures like Cloud, Tifa, and even Sephiroth, get some token development...they simply don't receive ENOUGH, compared to FF VI and later games in the series. Additionally, most of the supporting cast are ciphers, completely underwritten, and as such, are major disappointments.

The rest of the game is even less exciting. Exploring and looking for the next random encounter is not so bad, but the towns and other slow parts can be utterly, utterly awful. To advance past these parts, you must spend hours just walking around "talking" to people. Being stuck somewhere for hours because you haven't yet randomly discovered that you have to talk to the old man three times, after alternatively talking to the child in the street and the lady with the hat twice, is not fun.

There's really nothing original about Final Fantasy VII, and in fact, many RPGs on the previous Genesis and SNES platforms had better storylines and gameplay. It's slightly interesting that you're thrown into the middle of the main character's life, but the minutes-long flashbacks and resulting lack of understanding quite what the goal is, get tedious and downright annoying. Basically, other than the graphics, this is an anemically-underdeveloped pale shadow of far better role-playing games that have been released both before and since.

Many people state that the emotional ties that develop between the player and the characters are a large part of the enjoyment of the game. I suppose that would be a valid point, if the characters or story were actually interesting or believable. All of the characters are one-dimensional and wooden, and the story plods on and on, only being tolerated because you're forced to watch it in order to continue playing. The game would probably be more enjoyable if it were just about stats, Materia, and Chocobo-racing.

Then we come to the hardcore, evangelical FF VII fandom, which frequently make Trekkies look like Buddhist monks:

I once got yelled at by someone at a con.

"Why are you cosplaying?"
"Kadaj."
"That's... Final Fantasy VII?"
"You don't play it?"
"Yeah, I bought it when it was first released, and I even finished it, but I disliked it, and sold it back to GameStop."
"What the hell is wrong with you? What, did you like X-2, or something?"

Yeah. No other FF fans have ever bitched at me. I simply didn't like FF VII.

I didn't go up this person and *SAY* "Final Fantasy VII sucks," so I should be yelled at like I did? FF VII fans take it too far, from a fandom to a lifestyle. They're like hardcore Browncoat Whedonites, and are very gung-ho -- which is to say, if you even dare to disagree with them, you're wrong. These people short-stroke it every night in bed over Cloud and Sephiroth. And it's true that many of the hardcore FF VII fen are only interested in FF VII, and not the other games in the series.

Summing up: the more you hype something, the less people are going to enjoy it once they finally get to it. I was at the point that I could have combined FF VII fans' opinions of the game, and taken it all to mean that it could've cured blindness, cancer, and global poverty.
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