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Health Care Reform Gearing Up - Page 52

post #2551 of 2590
6/29/12 at 11:55am

The people that are angriest about this bill don't know a goddamn thing about it. Go figure.

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post #2552 of 2590
6/29/12 at 12:06pm

here,

 

ZkHCP.jpg
 

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post #2553 of 2590
6/29/12 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post

 

As opposed to what? Not having any health insurance? Explain to me why that's a good alternative. 

Single payer.

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post #2554 of 2590
6/29/12 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Writhing Walt View Post

Single payer.

 

<facepalm>

 

Join the club. Thank your buddies who run the website you linked to for ruining that for everyone, along with the political and corporate warlords they worship 

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post #2555 of 2590
6/29/12 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangy View Post

The people that are angriest about this bill don't know a goddamn thing about it. Go figure.

 

All they know is that a black man is telling them what to do.  So it must be wrong.

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post #2556 of 2590
6/29/12 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post

 

<facepalm>

 

Join the club. Thank your buddies who run the website you linked to for ruining that for everyone, along with the political and corporate warlords they worship 

Obama took single payer off the table, not CounterPunch.org. And by "my friends"...well, you're losing me. It's just a website I read. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Anyhow, here's a different op-ed that I think is better than the one I first linked to:

http://wvgazette.com/Opinion/OpEdCommentaries/201206280091

 

Call me stupid and/or crazy, but I just think giving private insurance companies billions of tax payer dollars is insane...b/c, well, we all know the health insurance industry is filled w/ the most non-corrupt people (sarcasm intended).

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post #2557 of 2590
6/29/12 at 1:00pm

In what world are you living where any of us are dusting off our hands going "Well, we passed the Affordable Care Act, that takes care of the American health care system once and for all." We all recognize it's flawed (though not because of the mandate) and we were all dissapointed it didn't go farther initially. But it is a step in the right direction, millions of more Americans (including PEOPLE LIKE YOU) will be covered by it, and for it to have been struck down would have been utterly disastrous.

 

As for Obama taking the single payer option off the table, that's because it was the only way he could pass anything, thanks to the Republican and blue-dog Democrat (who might as well just be Republicans) opposition.

 

We do not live in a world of Kings and Queens, where one man can come in and make everything awesome right away. Things like the overhaul of a huge nations health care system are complex, complicated and dirty. The idea of a mandate might go against some deeply held principle you have regarding ideas of personal choice and government powers. But at the end of the day it helps MILLIONS of people get coverage, which can save their lives in more ways than one. When faced off against that, your principles aren't worth a hot shit.

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post #2558 of 2590
6/29/12 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z.Vasquez View Post

 

As for Obama taking the single payer option off the table, that's because it was the only way he could pass anything, thanks to the Republican and blue-dog Democrat (who might as well just be Republicans) opposition.

 

Exactly. It was a miracle extensive health care got passed at all. It'd be political suicide for Obama to push a single payer system. Just wouldn't happen. People were calling him a fascist and talking about death panels after he took it off the table. Think about it.

 

Maybe you should start reading other sources of information...

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post #2559 of 2590
6/29/12 at 1:31pm

Despite what I and many others might want (single payer), any changes to the healthcare industry in this country will not occur in the blink of an eye. 

The ACA being implemented is just the first step. I hope everyone has comfortable shoes on because the changes that still need to happen are going to be incremental in nature.

 

As is the case with many of the past "radical" ideas (women voting, civil rights?!?) that have introduced to the populace, there is considerable pushback. Usually the hesitance to these evolutionary changes is from an irrational and unwarranted "fear of the unknown", usually perpetrated by those who stand to lose something.

 

In this case, as I see it, there are too many people/companies that are making huge profits off of the misery of others...and they won't let go of that cash cow without a fight. Look at how much money was spent fighting this legislation...it's fucking obscene. How many people could have been helped with all the money spent by those healthcare companies/lobbyists?

 

It's kinda corny, but I can't help but think of the movie 'Contact'  "Small moves, Ellie, small moves."

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post #2560 of 2590
6/29/12 at 1:35pm

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/louisiana-gov-bobby-jindal-refuses-implement-obamacare-despite-152429092.html

 

The modern GOP is nothing but little children who hold their breath when they don't get their way.
 

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post #2561 of 2590
6/29/12 at 1:49pm

I was talking about the whole reasoning behind John Robert's vote with someone, and how many conservative scholars are looking at this thing as a victory because he essentially used it as a Trojan horse to gut the commerce clause (a theory which seems half-legit and half-silver-lining-bullshit), and I made the point that I can respect the hell out of that kind of long-game political maneuvering, even if it works as a setback against the side I find myself on. If nothing else it takes smarts and cunning, and I'd rather suffer a setback from a tactician like Roberts than have to cede to big fat crying fucking babies like Jindal, Walker, Scalia and the Fox News bunch.

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post #2562 of 2590
6/29/12 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z.Vasquez View Post

I was talking about the whole reasoning behind John Robert's vote with someone, and how many conservative scholars are looking at this thing as a victory because he essentially used it as a Trojan horse to gut the commerce clause (a theory which seems half-legit and half-silver-lining-bullshit), and I made the point that I can respect the hell out of that kind of long-game political maneuvering, even if it works as a setback against the side I find myself on. If nothing else it takes smarts and cunning, and I'd rather suffer a setback from a tactician like Roberts than have to cede to big fat crying fucking babies like Jindal, Walker, Scalia and the Fox News bunch.

 

I can't help but wonder if there was a little bit of forethought put into some of the wording during the SCOTUS debates...??


It will be interesting to see how "Congressional scholar" Obama deals with this.

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post #2563 of 2590
6/29/12 at 2:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbrother View Post

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/louisiana-gov-bobby-jindal-refuses-implement-obamacare-despite-152429092.html

The modern GOP is nothing but little children who hold their breath when they don't get their way.

It's probably better in the long run for residents of some of the red states if their crybaby Governors do refuse to go along; the window of opportunity to craft some hybrid mutant system that waters the ACA down will close in 2017, and the people will get the undiluted federal version of the law's provisions.
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post #2564 of 2590
6/29/12 at 11:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post

 

Exactly. It was a miracle extensive health care got passed at all. It'd be political suicide for Obama to push a single payer system. Just wouldn't happen. People were calling him a fascist and talking about death panels after he took it off the table. Think about it.

 

Maybe you should start reading other sources of information...


Political suicide huh.

 

Therein is the problem in a nutshell. The ACA is shit but it's the best shit we can get so we should slap some Wonderbread on it, salt and swallow it through grinning teeth. Fact is, the only reason the Republican Party is against it is a. it's an election year and b. the mandate is nothing but "get the negro out of the White House". So, Huzzah for the American people!

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post #2565 of 2590
6/30/12 at 1:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancroft Agee View Post


Political suicide huh.

 

Therein is the problem in a nutshell. The ACA is shit but it's the best shit we can get so we should slap some Wonderbread on it, salt and swallow it through grinning teeth. Fact is, the only reason the Republican Party is against it is a. it's an election year and b. the mandate is nothing but "get the negro out of the White House". So, Huzzah for the American people!


I completely disagree. It's not by any stretch perfect, but it covers MILLIONS of people that would otherwise have continued to be uncovered. That makes it the opposite of shit. And the Republicans were against it from the get. The ruling happened to land during an election year, but let's not act like the right is only siding against it because they it's an election year. The Republicans don't give a shit about people getting health care. Obama, for all of his faults and failings, is trying to do what is best for everyone in this country, whether they voted for him or not. The Republicans only give a shit about people who vote red. And even then, those people don't mean half as much to them as the ones who line their pockets.

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post #2566 of 2590
6/30/12 at 6:40am

One of the reasons I supported then-candidate Obama in the primary was because I supported a public option over a mandate (which was Clinton's plan). I still do. But this plan will help people get insured, so I support it. It's not the plan I want, but it's better than the "America has the best healthcare in the world!" head in the sand plan.

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post #2567 of 2590
6/30/12 at 11:30am

This bill will be good for some of the lower-middle class, but for the working poor it won't do much good but give money to private health insurance companies and/or a tax to the I.R.S. It's neither single-payer nor medicare for all. This bill does not address the over-priced deductibles. The idea that this new law will provide the working poor w/ adequate health-care is laughable.

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post #2568 of 2590
6/30/12 at 12:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancroft Agee View Post


Political suicide huh.

 

Therein is the problem in a nutshell. The ACA is shit but it's the best shit we can get so we should slap some Wonderbread on it, salt and swallow it through grinning teeth. Fact is, the only reason the Republican Party is against it is a. it's an election year and b. the mandate is nothing but "get the negro out of the White House". So, Huzzah for the American people!

 

Do you read the post about what this bill does? Jesus Christ, why does it have to be all or nothing with some people? I wasn't happy with how limited it was either, but it's still a substantive health care act, and one of the largest new health care legislation in our history. It's kinda huge, what this does. 

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post #2569 of 2590
6/30/12 at 2:37pm
I think a lot of the ambivalence can be blamed on the administration's complete and inexcusable failure to sell the ACA to the public. Participants in polls routinely are in favor of the ACA, provided that they are told in detail what the law actually does first. I know it's difficult to campaign while actively serving as President, but Obama can't be the only person on the team who can be competent in front of a camera.
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post #2570 of 2590
6/30/12 at 3:54pm

 While checking my facebook news feed, I saw a picture that said: THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON A TAX REVOLT! I'm assuming this was his response to the mandate being a tax. I'm sure we all know that it was the lack of representation that started the revolt; hence the term: No taxation without representation. During Washington's presidency he passed a tax against whiskey which led to the Whiskey Rebellion. Their logic was wasn't this what we rebelled against. Washington said no because you now have representation. If you didn't pay attention in high school, don't express your political views.

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post #2571 of 2590
6/30/12 at 5:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post

 

Do you read the post about what this bill does? Jesus Christ, why does it have to be all or nothing with some people? I wasn't happy with how limited it was either, but it's still a substantive health care act, and one of the largest new health care legislation in our history. It's kinda huge, what this does. 


First, don't patronize me. I'm well aware of what the ACA is. It's a compromise bill that doesn't do enough addressing the real problems in American Health Care (that go FAR beyond the Insurance companies themselves) and throws money at Pharma and the Insurance Industry because that's who helped craft the damn thing. They threw a couple of bones to the progressives (like elimination of preexisting conditions being a no go for health insurance, "capping" profits, etc) but managed to keep what they really wanted intact. I'm not going to cheer politically palatable or expedient policy for cheering's sake. Congrats to the President and the Democratic Party: they got their "win" that they can wheel out to parade around for November.

 

Secondly, huge would have been H.R. 676. Huge is Vermont's Act 48. This? A half ass attempt at the Swiss Model that if it had been championed and advocated by Barry O'Bama,  Republican President, a great many Dems and self-styled Liberals would be up in arms.

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post #2572 of 2590
6/30/12 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz View Post

 While checking my facebook news feed, I saw a picture that said: THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON A TAX REVOLT! I'm assuming this was his response to the mandate being a tax. I'm sure we all know that it was the lack of representation that started the revolt; hence the term: No taxation without representation. During Washington's presidency he passed a tax against whiskey which led to the Whiskey Rebellion. Their logic was wasn't this what we rebelled against. Washington said no because you now have representation. If you didn't pay attention in high school, don't express your political views.


That's a very limited reading of what was behind the Whiskey Rebellion. The Whiskey Rebellion (and before that Shay's) had more in common with popular uprisings against unfair and unjust economic decisions.

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post #2573 of 2590
6/30/12 at 6:16pm

 I am still right about Washington's response. If you don't like laws then you can vote for people who would repeal them; hence a representative government.

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post #2574 of 2590
6/30/12 at 8:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancroft Agee View Post


First, don't patronize me. I'm well aware of what the ACA is. It's a compromise bill that doesn't do enough addressing the real problems in American Health Care (that go FAR beyond the Insurance companies themselves) and throws money at Pharma and the Insurance Industry because that's who helped craft the damn thing. They threw a couple of bones to the progressives (like elimination of preexisting conditions being a no go for health insurance, "capping" profits, etc) but managed to keep what they really wanted intact. I'm not going to cheer politically palatable or expedient policy for cheering's sake. Congrats to the President and the Democratic Party: they got their "win" that they can wheel out to parade around for November.

 

Secondly, huge would have been H.R. 676. Huge is Vermont's Act 48. This? A half ass attempt at the Swiss Model that if it had been championed and advocated by Barry O'Bama,  Republican President, a great many Dems and self-styled Liberals would be up in arms.

 

I'll ask this: what could the President or the Democratic Party possibly have done differently and still ended up with an actual bill? People like you love to cast Obama as an emperor who got everything he wanted out of this. No -- it was legislation crafted to pass in THIS world, not the perfect one you demand he govern from. There was nothing "expedient" about this, they lost congress over it. Sometimes that's the price for meaningful policy. Those "couple of bones" may not mean anything to you, but for a lot of people, it's the difference between having coverage and not. That is, the difference between life and death. Ignoring that just because you're pissed that Obama didn't personally burn every insurance company to the ground is cold.

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post #2575 of 2590
6/30/12 at 9:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Peace View Post

 

I'll ask this: what could the President or the Democratic Party possibly have done differently and still ended up with an actual bill? People like you love to cast Obama as an emperor who got everything he wanted out of this. No -- it was legislation crafted to pass in THIS world, not the perfect one you demand he govern from. There was nothing "expedient" about this, they lost congress over it. Sometimes that's the price for meaningful policy. Those "couple of bones" may not mean anything to you, but for a lot of people, it's the difference between having coverage and not. That is, the difference between life and death. Ignoring that just because you're pissed that Obama didn't personally burn every insurance company to the ground is cold.


People like me? You don't know me and I don't know you so if not towing the party line and railing against something I believe to be shortsighted and wrong on every level, against everything I believe in...well that's okay with me. It's shit legislation, crafted by power brokers and policy makers, to do the same thing that has happened time and time again in this country: give 'em just enough to protect the status quo and funnel true change into the abattoir of the American political process...to be cut, carved and sliced until the people who it's supposedly for look upon it and say "this is it"? And if you score some "points" in the never ending partisan election cycles? Hey, cool bro.  Like Howard Zinn once said:

 

“When a social movement adopts the compromises of legislators, it has forgotten its role, which is to push and challenge the politicians, not to fall meekly behind them”

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post #2576 of 2590
6/30/12 at 10:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancroft Agee View Post

 Like Howard Zinn once said:

 

“When a social movement adopts the compromises of legislators, it has forgotten its role, which is to push and challenge the politicians, not to fall meekly behind them”

 

Of course you should keep fighting for the ultimate goal. But it's ridiculous of you to expect people elected to lead the entire country to behave the same way as an activist would. Accept what you want and then move the first down marker... don't just rail against the fact that you're not yet in the end zone.

 

This isn't an entirely ignorant bunch here. Most here know that a variation on this model was first proposed by liberal icon Richard Nixon. All know that a version of this model was implemented by lion of progressivism Mitt Romney. But the other side moved the chains on us and it was the first time in 50 years we had garnered as much as a turnover.

 

I will push this football metaphor all night long.

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post #2577 of 2590
7/1/12 at 8:18am

Also, this:

 

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/06/in_addition_to_the_week.php?ref=fpblg

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post #2578 of 2590
7/3/12 at 3:11pm

I didn't know the ACA mandated resturants post nuitritional information.  I live in CA and it's mandated here, and let me tell you cousins, that shit stinks.  When I'm hitting up a Five Guys, I don't need to know how many calories are in their double bacon cheeseburger.

 

I suppose that's okay to deal with if some kids get medical care, but man...

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post #2579 of 2590
7/3/12 at 4:50pm

Posting that stuff is great.  I hate when I'm eating out and trying to guess at which items sound healthier and by how much.  It seems like every time I look it up its not what I think or what I took to be a big difference is negligible. 

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post #2580 of 2590
7/6/12 at 10:01am

Hey everyone....there's finally help for all this negativity I'm seeing here.

 

All we need is to take some RepubliBliss and it will all get better.

 

 

:)

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post #2581 of 2590
8/1/12 at 8:48pm

So, some good news happened today....

 

Obamacare's Women's Health Provisions Go Into Effect Today

 

 

 

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post #2582 of 2590
8/3/12 at 5:34pm
Submitted without comment.


Christian College Suing Over Birth Control Mandate Didn’t Realize it Already Covered Contraception

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin Gloria Ryan 
Wheaton College, a private Christian school in Illinois, wishes to be exempt from the Obama administration's newly-enacted birth control insurance mandate, like other religious-run schools and hospitals. But there's one problem: Wheaton doesn't qualify for the exemption, despite the fact that they're adamantly against emergency contraception and birth control and all the unbridled harlotry that proliferates in the presence of the two evil medicines. The reason they don't qualify? Turns out that before all this Obamacare business, the school was already covering emergency contraception.
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post #2583 of 2590
8/10/12 at 4:43pm

just saw this over at the Apple Trailer page

 

ESCAPE FIRE: The Fight to Rescue American Healthcare tackles one of the most pressing issues of our time: how can we save our badly broken healthcare system?

 

http://www.escapefiremovie.com/

 

Hopefully this docu. will help to keep this issue in the public eye.

 

 

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post #2584 of 2590
2/22/13 at 9:34am

I almost started a new thread but then I remembered this one...

 

Good interview on The Daily Show last night
-extended interview online

In this exclusive, unedited interview, journalist Steven Brill examines the enormous profits reaped by the not-for-profit health care industry.

 

 

 

 

 

Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us


<excerpt>

Quote:
The $21,000 Heartburn Bill
One night last summer at her home near Stamford, Conn., a 64-year-old former sales clerk whom I’ll call Janice S. felt chest pains. She was taken four miles by ambulance to the emergency room at Stamford Hospital, officially a nonprofit institution. After about three hours of tests and some brief encounters with a doctor, she was told she had indigestion and sent home. That was the good news.

The bad news was the bill: $995 for the ambulance ride, $3,000 for the doctors and $17,000 for the hospital — in sum, $21,000 for a false alarm.

Out of work for a year, Janice S. had no insurance. Among the hospital’s charges were three “TROPONIN I” tests for $199.50 each. According to a National Institutes of Health website, a troponin test “measures the levels of certain proteins in the blood” whose release from the heart is a strong indicator of a heart attack. Some labs like to have the test done at intervals, so the fact that Janice S. got three of them is not necessarily an issue. The price is the problem. Stamford Hospital spokesman Scott Orstad told me that the $199.50 figure for the troponin test was taken from what he called the hospital’s chargemaster. The chargemaster, I learned, is every hospital’s internal price list. Decades ago it was a document the size of a phone book; now it’s a massive computer file, thousands of items long, maintained by every hospital.

Stamford Hospital’s chargemaster assigns prices to everything, including Janice S.’s blood tests. It would seem to be an important document. However, I quickly found that although every hospital has a chargemaster, officials treat it as if it were an eccentric uncle living in the attic. Whenever I asked, they deflected all conversation away from it. They even argued that it is irrelevant. I soon found that they have good reason to hope that outsiders pay no attention to the chargemaster or the process that produces it. For there seems to be no process, no rationale, behind the core document that is the basis for hundreds of billions of dollars in health care bills.
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post #2585 of 2590
2/22/13 at 11:04am

Great (depressing) article.

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post #2586 of 2590
2/22/13 at 12:46pm

Meanwhile.

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post #2587 of 2590
2/22/13 at 1:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuddL View Post

Meanwhile.

 

on one hand, about fucking time....On the other hand, they are still jacking up the rates that are close to unaffordable already. I have been paying out of pocket for my insurance for the past couple years. I finally had to drop it as the monthly premiums went up (again) 12% this last Jan. 

 

I can't help but think that the Health Insurance Industry is just going to look for other ways to screw their customers. Kinda like many of the banks are now instituting lots of misc. fees for shit that they used to offer for free.

 

Heaven forbid some of these companies should only make $500 Million dollars in profit instead of last years $800 million....rolleyes.gif

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post #2588 of 2590
3/23/13 at 9:45am
So three years later the American public still spilt on the ACA. Even more are confused what it does. Total failure on the Democrats. Still find the old Heritage Foundation plan, aka Romneycare a bad idea. Why couldn't we have just done single payer health care? It's way easier to explain and less convoluted.

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/1195959
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post #2589 of 2590
3/23/13 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arturo RJ View Post

So three years later the American public still spilt on the ACA. Even more are confused what it does. Total failure on the Democrats. Still find the old Heritage Foundation plan, aka Romneycare a bad idea. Why couldn't we have just done single payer health care? It's way easier to explain and less convoluted.

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/1195959

 

Because Joe Lieberman killed it.

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post #2590 of 2590
3/23/13 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Grimm View Post

Because Joe Lieberman killed it.

Yeah truth. Just another reason to despise Lieberman's guts! He's a big reason we even had a President Bush.
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