Batman: The Animated Series - Page 3

OK, so Kevin Conroy is even awesomer than I thought he was.

I sort of lost interest in the animated DC stuff around the time Superman:TAS appeared (the fact that it moved to a cable channel that my family couldn't get obviously didn't help) but I've recently caught up with it, and its a LOT better than I remember it being. Their takes on Bizarro and Mxyzptlk were terrific, and finding out that the New Gods showed up was a delightful surprise. The moment where Superman sees Darkseid for the first time, asks "who are you?", and Darkseid blasts him with his eye-beams until he's on the ground, then says "THAT is who I am," and leaves? That's about the best summary of the character possible. I would love it so much if these animated movies they've been pumping out (which I've skipped) eventually lead to a Fourth World animate movie. Probably a long shot, but it's clear some of the people who work on those shows really get the characters and could do them justice, something I was dubious about.

And Batman Returns is my favourite Batman movie. Yes, I like it better than Phantasm, though of course that's a great flick too. But BR is probably one of my favourite movies, period. One of the things that Batman fans complain about the most, the fact that the characters are so off-model from their more familiar versions, is one of the reasons I love it so much. And while I enjoy the Nolan movies alright, fuck "realism" right in its stupid ass. I want a delirious parallel-reality Gotham City that seems to exist in a early 20th Century art gallery, goddammit.

The Justice League Unlimited episode THE TIES THAT BIND is a must see if you're a fan of the New Gods.
I don't know how a 70 minute FOURTH WORLD movie would turn out, but I'd love to see it.

But I'm sure they'll make another movie with either Batman or Superman (or both) instead. I like the characters, but I can't believe they wasted time and money on bringing the shitty Jeph Loeb story "Batman/Superman: Public Enemies" to life.

That's in Feat of Clay which is one of my favourite episodes. I do love how ridiculous that scene is. It's almost up there with Mark Whalberg's 'Noooooooo' in THE HAPPENING.

 

I'm going through the DVDs now and I surprised at how well certain episodes hold up. It's weird as well because they obviously didn't show all the episodes in Britain because there are the occasional episodes that I've never seen before. 

Worth bumping the thread for two reasons. First, Hasbro's cable channel, The Hub, starts airing B:TAS next week. It will be nice to catch a random episode without the need of dvd box sets or the internet. Second, That Guy with the Glasses recently posted his top 11 episodes of the series and it is a cool sampling of what made this series so impressive. His second favorite episode was a pleasant surprise.

 

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/32071-top-11-batman-tas-episodes

 

Urghh..The Nostalgia Critic.

This is my all time favourite show and I'm just discovering the thread for it now. Weird. Can someone copy his list? The video's not working for me. Also, even it did, I wouldn't want to watch it just to find out his rankings. I'm interested in anyone's list of favourite episodes but that guy annoys the hell out of me.

Bruce disguised himself as Matches Malone in the Batgirl origin episodes, but he didn't  get to play the part very long. I had no idea it was actually something he went back to repeatedly in the comics. In the episode, I thought it was a rather silly name. A guy named "Matches"? Because he likes to hold a match in his mouth? Ridiculous! But then I'm sure comics can have a way of making things that sound absurd on paper surprisingly plausible and cool. 

Since you asked, here you go.

 

11. Beware the Gray Ghost
10. The Man Who Killed Batman
9. Mad Love
8. Birds of a Feather
7. Two-Face
6. Over the Edge
5. Perchance to Dream
4. Heart of Ice
3. Trial
2. Baby-Doll
1. Almost Got 'Im

 

 

Thanks. Weird list. Doesn't have either of my two favourites ("Harley & Ivy" and "Read My Lips"). "Baby-Doll" and "Birds of a Feather" are quite mediocre, but the other choices are respectable. The exclusion of "Read My Lips" is really disappointing. It's just as good as "Two-Face" and "Heart of Ice". I think those three are more worthy than any others of being identified as best episode of the series. Nice to see "Trial" on the list. It's a favourite of mine despite how silly and devoid of tension/drama/suspense/emotional depth it is.

Wow, I'm somewhat surprised that everyone hates Glasses. I'll admit that he has a bit of an extreme personality in his videos, but I thought his reviews on Rocky IV and Zeus and Roxanne were funny.  Ok, back to the list. I liked the fact that he doesn't go for the obvious stuff, like "On Leather Wings" or "Feat of Clay", and throws in some curveballs.

 

"Baby-Doll" stands out because it is such a bizarre and tragic episode. How many other animated shows would do an episode that feels like a cross between Different Strokes and Whatever Happened to Baby Jane? The fact that "Read My Lips" and some of your other choices didn't make the list just goes to show what a strong series this was. B:TAS had a good track record and didn't turn out too many duds when it was on the air. To just show you what I mean, here is my top 11.

 

11. Double Talk

10. Baby-Doll

9. Heart of Ice

8. Legends of the Dark Knight

7. The Laughing Fish

6. Never Fear

5. Riddler's Reform

4. Mad as a Hatter

3. See No Evil

2. The Man Who Killed Batman

1. The Clock King

 

Not much overlap in the previous list, huh?

 

Edited by JPL - 9/3/11 at 10:48am

Also, AV Club has been reviewing B:TAS for several months now and it is worth reading to get another take on this great series.

 

http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/tvshow/batman-the-animated-series,149/

Edited by JPL - 9/3/11 at 7:16am

I find a lot of those reviews disappointing. The guy who started them and arranged for A.V. Club to cover the series in the first place was a much better writer than the person writing the reviews now. It's a shame he got booted for fabricating a story. "Baby Doll" had an interesting idea behind it, but the execution was weak and I don't feel that it earns the poignancy it tries to have at the end. It's a melodramatic misfire as far as I'm concerned.

 

I'm not a big fan of "The New Batman Adventures" in general. I think a lot of its episodes are too gimmicky or sub par sequels to "Batman: The Animated Series" episodes. This includes "Double Talk", and the overrated "Over the Edge", which is okay, but basically an inferior remake of "Perchance to Dream". As a whole, I think everything was watered down in that series, from the drawing/animation style to the writing.

 

There are a few classics, though. My pick for the best episode of that series is "Never Fear" - the only episode that I believe handled a villain better than the previous series ever did. The re-design of The Scarecrow was excellent, and the episode had a better plot, better animation, and better casting (love Jeffrey Combs) than the older Scarecrow episodes. "Mad Love" is great too, and the Roxy Rocket episode was hilarious.

 

I like a lot of your choices. "The Clock King" is a marvelous episode...the guy is such a silly villain on paper, but his supremely dickish personality, wonderful resourcefulness, and inventive stunts make that episode a pleasure to watch from start to finish. The "Castle of Cagliostoro" references are just gravy. I also love the pathos in the Riddler and Mad Hatter episodes you singled out and I think "The Laughing Fish" was the best Joker episode. I'm listing my favourites as well. I cheat a bit by listing two part episodes as one and you can tell that I absolutely adore Harley Quinn. 8 and 10 are kind of guilty pleasures. They're a bit daft, but I love them. Couldn't pick an 11...it would be either "Two-Face" or "Never Fear", but I can't decide between the two.

 

10 "The Strange Secret of Bruce Wayne"

Despite a near 2 year difference, the thread was already bumped, and I have to agree. Jeffrey Combs as the Scarecrow was great and I would watch an animated or Live action The Question with Combs without a doubt.

 

Quick top-ten from me

 

1. Showdown - Love this episide, really great Jonah Hex cameo and I love the epic scope of the entire thing. Especially the final reveal of the airship towards the end.
2. Heart of Ice - I was watching this last year when I got the Animated Series on DVD and I was still impressed at how this holds up as a narrative and reboot of the Freeze character
3. Feat of Clay - Just amazing animation and one of the best mob-related stories in the show
4. Harleyquinade - I love Harley Quinn and this is still my favourite episode featuring her.
5. Joker’s Favour - Still my favourite of the many Joker appearances in the series, I think this is only beaten by Phantasm in really showing off the Joker as a character.
6. If You’re So Smart Why Aren’t You Rich? - One of the better adventure episodes in the show, really great introduction to the Riddler as well.
7. Nothing To Fear - Kind of a weak episode in general, but I always liked what they did with the Scarecrow in this.
8. Almost Got ‘Im - Just hilarious from start to finish.
9. The Man Who Killed Batman - This always felt like the Joker really pushing the limits of what they could get away with in a kids show
10. Beware The Gray Ghost - A personal favourite of mine, really love the references to the things that inspired the Batman comics.

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The main reason I included "Double Talk" is due to the ending. There are actually a lot of episodes where one of Batman's villains decides he/she wants to reform, but later we find out that it was all a diversion or some tragedy causes them to go back to their old ways. "Double Talk" is the only one I can think of where it ends on an upbeat note.

 

Plus, Scarface + rotating fan = 

 

I had to include "Clock King" as my number one. The series took a character who is in fact a goofy Green Arrow villain and made him into a credible threat to the Dark Knight. Alan Rachins voice work is fantastic, and I find myself actually rooting for the character during the course of the episode. The "Castle" reference is a nice animated tip of the hat.

 

Naisu, what is it about "Harley & Ivy" that makes it your number one? (Outside of the cheesecake factor, of course.)

Edited by JPL - 9/3/11 at 10:51am

its been mentioned before, but my god, the amazing orchestrated score rivals that of any Batman movie to date, and unarguably blows any animated series out of the water. Top five animated series of all time, guaranteed

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Yeah, I love how there was that running gag of Scarface always getting killed horribly somehow. Even when he isn't the focus of an episode, he gets mutilated (The Scarecrow accidentally decapitates him in "Trial") because the producers loved being able to eviscerate him more violently than other characters since he's not human (the same goes for robots, who they had a blast smashing up real good in "Heart of Steel"). Yes, Rachins was aces as The Clock King. He does some terrific scenery chewing, but the first act builds up a lot of sympathy for him too, so I delighted in what a prick he was while also kinda wanting him to succeed.

 

Haha, "cheesecake factor". You may not believe me, but the 'sex appeal' was never the main attraction of that episode for me (although I did get a kick out of Harley and Ivy hanging around the house in oversized t-shirts and shorts). I just think, entertainment-wise, it's the most consistent episode of all. Moment by moment, it's just so fun, from the opening sequence with the manic car chase, to the bickering between Harley and The Joker, to Harley's robbery where she meets Ivy ("Aren't you that plant lady, Poison Oaky?") and beyond.

 

It's just one stellar comedic or action set piece after another, and the dialog between Harley and Ivy or Harley and Joker is just priceless. No other episode has so much dialog and so many scenes I just savour for how funny they are. I love the way Ivy tries to encourage her to be more independent (calls her a doormat, then declares, "If you had a middle name, it would be 'welcome' "), while The Joker sleazily manipulates her into still wanting him no matter how abusive he is. 

 

For me there aren't five funnier moments in the series than Harley seeing The Joker's face in her plate of vegetables, Ivy kicking The Joker in the crotch, The Joker's tantrum when he can't find his socks, The Joker recklessly shooting his machine gun until explosions surround him ("oops, dopey me"), and the scene where Harley takes a bazooka to the car of some obnoxious dipshits hitting on she and Ivy. And along with all the fun, there's the endearing hopelessness of Harley's infatuation with The Joker, both amusing and a little sad. It's not the most tense or dramatically/emotionally powerful episode, but it's the one that makes me happiest.

 

Spike, I dig your list (your top episode is an unusual choice, yet a solid one), but boy, did I ever hate "Nothing to Fear". The animation/drawing was hideous (understandable since it was an early episode) and the guy playing The Scarecrow was over-the-top in the worst way. I found it too maudlin as well. I think the plot was a good idea, but it was presented very sloppily. Upon revisiting it, I've realized that it shares a few elements with "Batman Begins", but the movie handled them in a much smoother way. Glad to see some love for The Riddler's debut. I don't think the character was used to its full potential in the series (the writers had a lot of trouble with him), but I always found his episodes enthralling.

Why not.

 

 

Over The Edge

Mad Love

Almost Got 'Im

Heart Of Ice

The Man Who Killed Batman

Feat of Clay

Appointment In Crime Alley

Perchance To Dream

A Bullet For Bullock

P.O.V.

oops, nevermind.

What's the story here?

 

Anyway, my ten

Almost Got 'Im - Easily the best of a great group. Best voice acting, best one-liners.

The Laughing Fish - I choose to look at this as Joker's last episode, as it has a sense of finality to it. Hamill's at his most evil and funny in this.

I Am The Night - Again, great voice acting. I thought this really got to how much of a toll crimefighting takes on Batman.

Tyger Tyger - Hard to forget the memorable characterization of the highly-sexualized Tygrus. A strange, strange episode.

Wings Of Leather - The best animation of the series. And that Man-Bat/Batman chase is one for the books.

Harley's Holiday - Harley's finest hour. Love the absurd chase sequence at the end.

Robin's Reckoning - Again, great animation. Loren Lester does really intense, emotional work as Robin.

Feat Of Clay - Both tragic and gross. Clayface might be my favorite villain of the series.

Heart of Steel - Whoever thought of casting William Sanderson as the head of HARDAC deserves a medal.

Avatar - I think this was billed as one of five random new episodes in the middle of summer, each one premiering on a Monday. They scheduled and promoted it like an event, and it really delivered. One of the more cinematic episodes of the show's run.

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Here's the original posting from the AV Club...and here's a post about it from another site. The writer apologized on his blog. It's pretty ridiculous what he did. Why the hell would you make up a review of something before its release instead of just waiting for its release and reviewing it then? So yeah, it was a stupid thing to do and he deserved to get canned for it, but it's frustrating as a reader to see him get booted when he'd only written two "Batman: The Animated Series" reviews, and it looked like his reviews were going to be consistently excellent.

 

The thing that pissed me off about the new guy was that he was being WAY too generous with the grades, especially at the start, although he's become a little more sensible over time. I mean, calling "Nothing to Fear" the first great episode of the series and giving it an "A" is nuts. If that mess is an "A", what are "Heart of Ice" and "Two-Face"? Those episodes are so much better by comparison, they're in another stratosphere.

 

YES! Another thumbs up for "Heart of Steel"! High five! That episode is so cool. Full of epic robot mayhem and mesmerizing sci-fi/robot creepiness. I also love the casting of the "Blade Runner" dude. I like how varied and surprising the choices on peoples' lists are. "Tyger, Tyger" was batshit, I can't believe that's some peoples' favourite . The "Raiders of the Lost Ark" homage of "Avatar" was neat-o. "Gross" is the right word for Clayface. It's amazing how disgusting his episodes could be, but in a really fascinating way. I'll never forget him freaking out some kid on a train ("Mommy! That lady is melting!"), ripping off part of his face and sticking it in someone's mouth like a gag, and trying to suffocate Batman inside himself. So, so sick.

In no order, off the top of my head:

 

Over the Edge

Growing Pains

Beware the Gray Ghost

Legends of the Dark Knight

Mad Love (although the comic is better)

World's Finest

Heart of Ice

Harley's Holiday

Shadow of the Bat

 

and i guess I'm the only guy here who can't resist The Ultimate Thrill. Also, I need to revisit the Rã's al-Ghul episodes as a group some day.

Edited by Hammerhead - 9/4/11 at 2:56am

Hell of a list, Hammerhead. Every episode on it is a winner. I've always thought "Mask of the Phantasm" is overrated and "World's Finest" is a much better animated movie. What makes that movie (or three episodes) so rewarding is how carefully written the interactions are between characters we don't normally see together. There's the novelty factor that automatically gives it appeal, but the conversations are also very clever. I love the one-upsmanship between Superman and Batman, the Lois/Bruce/Clark love triangle, and watching the calm, professional, dignified Luthor's reactions to The Joker's reckless behaviour. And I love "The Ultimate Thrill" too. Roxy is adorable, and the final scene in which she's practically orgasmic thinking she and Batman are going to spectacularly plummet to their deaths is one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

I've been wanting to get my hands on the boxset, but for now I've got some of the episodes I bought off of the PSN.

 

Really surprised to see no one's mentioned "A Bullet For Bullock". That ranks really highly for me. I love the jazz score that accompanies it, and it's great seeing Bullock get the spotlight for once. Probably ranks in my top 5.

 

Feat Of Clay and Harley & Ivy are up there as well. Particularly like the 2 parter, Heart Of Steel with the robots that has William Sanderson in it.

 

The Laughing Fish is another classic. Love the accordion music that plays throughout it.

 

Still remember seeing the premiere episode on a sunday night at 7, "On Leather Wings". The 2 parters were excruciating for my 8 year old self. The week wait felt like a month.

 

It's too bad they never used Rupert Thorne as a villain. John Vernon would have been perfectly cast as him since he did the voice. Man, Ron Perlman would still make a great Matt Hagen/Clayface. They need to use him when they reboot the Batman franchise after Nolan leaves. An allstar monster movie with Clayface, Killer Croc, and Man-Bat. Although that talk is for another thread.

 

 

 

Got The Laughing Fish confused with The Last Laugh. The Last Laugh is the one I was thinking of. "You killed Captain Clown!" Ah, Mark Hamill. The perfect Joker voice.

I recently purchased Mask of the Phantasm on DVD and re watched it, I stand by my statement that it's the best Batman film ever made.

Rene, I agree that "The Last Laugh" has one of the best scores. So catchy and bouncy...it's one of the scores that got stuck in my head way back when I first heard it as a kid, and I still think about it from time to time today. Same with the equally infectious harmonica score for "The Forgotten". Also, Justin Clark listed "A Bullet For Bullock" in his top ten. You're right, it's another episode with one of the best unconventional scores, and Bullock's arc as well as his dialog are pitch perfect.

Same here (although I think I was 9 at the time). To this day, I don't recall any TV cliffhangers ever making me as anxious for next week as those on "Batman: The Animated Series". I really liked the early days of Batman stuff in "Batman: Mask of the Phantasm". I wish it had been done more like that in "Batman Begins". The Joker stuff was nicely done as well...what I wasn't so keen on in that movie was the love story. I'm not opposed to love stories in general (even in Batman). I just didn't much care for the Andrea character.

Yes, I love how the story sets up such a plausible balance of power between the heroes-- there's something so very right about Batman being able to surprise Supes with a judo throw, and likewise for Superman immediately and literally seeing through Bats' mask. And don't forget the catfight between Harley Quinn and Mercy Graves.

Yeah, that harmonica score rocked. As soon as I read the line, the music started playing in my head. That's how ingrained it is in my mind!

 

I missed that Justin Clark had mentioned it on his list. Glad to know I'm not the only one who holds it in high regard.

 

Batman The Animated Series is just...BATtastic!  My fave episodes are...

1) The Night Of The Ninja Season 1

2) Beware The Grey Ghost Season 1

3) Christmas With The Joker Season 1

4) Shadow Of The Bat Pt 1 and 2 Season 2

5) The Cat And The Claw Pt 1 and 2 Season 1

so after rewatching my dvds....

 

is it officially pronounced "RAHS" al ghul or "RAYSH" al ghul?

'RAYSH.'  Whoever the dialect coach was on Begins was an idiot (or more likely it was Goyer who told them the pronunciation.  He was the one who decided that a guy with an Arabic name should be running a ninja army in the mountains of Tibet, after all).

ill be damned

 

always thought it was the other

 

another +1 for TAS

Thing that always bothered me about Mask of the Phantasm? The tenuous Joker inclusion.

 

He just happens to be the mobster that killed Andrea's father? And Bruce, who saw him around Andrea's father's house, never made the connection before?

 

That's one step away from Jack Napier killing Bruce's parents, I'm bothered by small world connections. Still, that all leads to the wonderful final battle, and my favorite line (probably said this before) from any Batman material:

 

Joker: You're crazy! I'm your only chance to get out of here! Let me go or we'll both die!

Batman: Whatever it takes!

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Amen. That's my big problem with the whole movie. Look at Andrea's history. Her father is killed by criminals, so she wants revenge, and this is supposedly why she's the perfect woman for Bruce. She doesn't seem like some independent, unique woman who would naturally fit with the Bruce. She's more like an obvious writer's invention created specifically for Bruce/Batman who shares a lot of personality traits/history with him.

 

What about opposites attract? It's such a lazy writer tactic to make lovers who are pretty much exactly the same. It's more realistic and interesting to have two separate, different people who somehow find a connection. The whole thing felt contrived to me, and it was obvious The Joker was also shoehorned in there just because Batman's biggest adversary had to be part of this big 'movie'.

 

Just got through watching Mask of the Phantasm for the first time since I saw it as a kid. The only thing I remembered about it from the old days was the mobster getting killed by the giant gravestone. I had read claims that it was in competition as the greatest Batman film ever and watching it late last night, I don't think those claims are unfounded.

 

For me, Batman: The Animated Series is the definitive Batman. It gets everything right about the Caped Crusader and what he should be. I could be biased since aside from the '89 movie, this was my first exposure to Batman.

Any fan of this show been listening to Kevin Smith's FATMAN ON BATMAN podcasts?  I've loved listening to them.  Regardless of what you think of Smith himself, he hangs back for the most part and just lets his guests talk.

 

And his guests so far?

 

Paul Dini.  Mark Hamill.  Tara Strong.  Arleen Sorkin. 

 

They've gotten me revisiting my 3 sets of DVDs and it's been fun. 

Thanks for the tip!