CHUD.com Community › Forums › MUSIC › Music › Muse
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Muse

post #1 of 85
Thread Starter 
This might end up being a little long winded so try and bear with me.

Muse are a band who can completely bypass my critical faculties and despite my general dislike for Matt Bellamy (the guitarist/pianist/vocalist of the group) and the general hollowness of their songs I can't help but really like the music they make. They're a band who straddle the line between rock and pop quite expertly, but this seems to be an almost accidental occurrence. Bellamy himself seems determined to make the band a bastion of real alternative rock music and yet manages to make radio friendly rock songs despite himself. As a band to dance to, our to see live, or to use as backing in trailers Muse are flawless because they're very technically proficent and have the ability to create some killer hooks. As disposable fun entertainment they're great, but they take themselves far too seriously and if you try and appreciate them on the level that Bellamy seems to want to be appreciated on then you're going to find yourself flummoxed by the sheer inanity of the lyrics.

In terms of making a well structured, well organised racket, the band are probably second to none in England. In fact I'd probably say that they're Britain's premiere mainstream rockband at the moment (if you consider that Oasis have been winding down for the last five years, Radiohead have abandoned the mainstream, the Arctic Monkeys sort of imploded in on themselves, and most other British rockbands are finding themselves maligned by the consistent shifts in genres going on in British music). But at their heart they're a band designed to score trailers. Songs like Showbiz, New Born, Hysteria, Stockholm Syndrome, Map of the Problematique are all muscular sounding slices of music that contain vapid meanings but are easily transposable to pretty much anything. They're songs devoid of context and as such all you have is the well written hooks and great guitar/bass/drum and key work.

If anything Muse brings to mind Clapton's Cream from the 70s, where you had a bunch of musicians playing to prove their musicianship more than anything else. As a live act Muse are phenomenal because they're all exceptional technicians with their respective instruments and despite Bellamy's seeming apathy towards the audience they're very good at working their crowds.

It's a shame because whenever you see Bellamy interviewed you can tell that he aspires to have something to say but understands that his music is ultimately hollow. You can almost get a sense of his dislike for his traditional audience in certain songs on Black Holes and Revelations, his sneery falsetto on Supermassive Black Hole and the sheer lunacy of Knights of Cydonia seem to be Bellamy criticising his public image and conforming to it, and I think part of the reason that the album wasn't received as warmly as OoS or Absolution is that it was so obviously self concious. I still like a great deal of the bands work, I just have to divorce myself from my own perception of the bands goals.

So what do you guys think about Muse, or isn't there much to think about?
post #2 of 85
I entirely discounted Muse until I heard Black Holes in its entirety. I've since tried to get into their back catalog, but Black Holes is really all I need by them. It's perfectly paced, the hooks are nigh-relentless, and the sonic barrage satisfies on a level not felt since before the '90s. It's arena rock for a new generation, and while I can't begrudge them for reaching a bit beyond their ability thematically, I don't have to listen to the lyrics, either. It's great workout or rush hour driving music. I liken the album to a neat little scifi film with amazing special effects that just gets the job done.
post #3 of 85
Thread Starter 
That's the point I was trying to make, they're perfectly suited to mindless anthemea. They're a great band to work out to, or to drive around to, or hold a party to, or dance like a goon to. But they seem kind of unhappy to just be mindless and it's a shame because when they do embrace their 'fun' side they're kind of awesome. Black Holes is to me an album in which they said 'fuck it' and tried to have some fun. Hence why a lot of their serious fans loathed the shit out of it.
post #4 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
That's the point I was trying to make, they're perfectly suited to mindless anthemea. They're a great band to work out to, or to drive around to, or hold a party to, or dance like a goon to. But they seem kind of unhappy to just be mindless and it's a shame because when they do embrace their 'fun' side they're kind of awesome. Black Holes is to me an album in which they said 'fuck it' and tried to have some fun. Hence why a lot of their serious fans loathed the shit out of it.
I'm not as familiar with the earlier work, having only heard it a few times. I still hear the pretension leaking through a bit in Black Holes with lines like "I'll show you a God who fell asleep on the job." I am more than willing to entertain the notion that such lyrics are tongue in cheek, even if I was initially inclined to think they intended it to be a concept album--what, with all the military rallying cries and letters from soldiers and the like. The opening of Knights of Cydonia even reminds me a bit of The Wall, until the blistering guitar enters and blows the roof off. That riff alone completely outweighs any clumsy thematic posturing. The older I get, the more willing I am to forgive awkward pretension, especially when the hooks are there, which my younger lyric-snob self would recoil in horror at hearing.
post #5 of 85
Saw them with My Chemical Romance last year. Have tickets to see them with U2 this fall. Kind of anxious to hear the new album as I'm curious to see whether they kept the same tone or veered into a new direction.
post #6 of 85
It's weird that a song like "Starlight" would end up being somewhat of a bro-anthem, but every once in a while I'm regaled by my next-door neighbors cranking out the worst fucking acoustic cover of this song that I've ever heard. It gets worse when his roommates join in, but yeah. I guess I'm trying to say that their appeal is more far-reaching than I initially assumed. They're a solid band, but you're pretty much spot-on with everything in your first post.
post #7 of 85
I'll be happy to use more hyphens too if necessary. I need coffee.
post #8 of 85
Thread Starter 
I wouldn't worry too much about them straying too far from their sound. Showbiz is their debut album and it's the only one that doesn't sound like a traditional Muse album, it's more Radiohead-lite than anything else. Origin of Symmetry created their weird Prog Rock sound, Absolution made it sound more muscular and added some more traditional rock influences, and Black Holes and Revelations combined the Prog and the Stadium Rock. I would recommend checking them out live if you ever get a chance, like em or loathe em they're quite phenomenal performers (especially Bellamy who doesn't really interact with the crowd at all, but plays his guitar utterly effortlessly whilst bounding around the stage)
post #9 of 85
I don't own any Muse CD's partially cause I always thought they were trying to replicate Bends era Radiohead, but without the brains. I do have to admit that I have downloaded some of the songs of theirs that I have heard in trailers for 28 Weeks Later "Shrinking Universe" and Watchmen, and something about them does definitely rock. I also enjoyed their one US hit "Starlight", but have not bought any of the albums mainly because of the Radiohead comparison.

I agree that there lyrics are a bit vapid and I think a band like Klaxons pulls of singing about mythical creatures/worlds a little bit more successfully, but I really haven't listened to enough Muse to really critique their work. From you first post it seems that my suspicions were right, but I agree that some of the stuff I have heard from them does rock, at least in a superficial way.

I also thought their lazer light show at the MTV Europe awards was pretty fucking cool.
post #10 of 85
I really got into BH&R when it came out thanks to 'Knights of Cydonia' on Guitar Hero. It's a fun album, although I find that Bellamy's vocals tend to be a little too bright in the mix: his voice tends to get a little bit shrill sometimes, taking me out of an otherwise good song. Beyond the songs 'Hysteria' and 'Plug In Baby', I really haven't explored their other albums. As bendrix said, this album is really all that I need.
post #11 of 85
Ha! I forgot to mention that with I saw them first it was in an Arena and this next time is in a stadium setting. I really got the impression that they play best in a stadium-venue (and BH&R almost feels like it was written to be played in a stadium), hence hoping that their tone doesn't change too much.
post #12 of 85
I remember reading a review of Absolution which described 'Showbiz' as their ascent into the stratosphere, 'Origin of Symmetry' as them re-entering the atmosphere and hitting the ground with an epic explosion and Absolution as them conquering the entire planet.

I've been a fan of Muse since listening to Showbiz and seen them live nearly every time they toured. Knights was a great rock albumbut felt less cohesive than Absolution, KOC was still absolutely kickass though, jesus, that guitar riff in the second half.
post #13 of 85
Gonna chime in on my love for Muse, especially blackholes and showbiz. Can't really say I really adore the other albums, but when it comes to a live performances, their shows are second to none.
post #14 of 85
I really don't get why they are still compared to Radiohead. They're really not similiar at all anymore.
post #15 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfan View Post
I really don't get why they are still compared to Radiohead. They're really not similiar at all anymore.
I suppose it mainly has to do with Bellamy's vocal styling, which is similar to Thom Yorke's? But yes, Muse is moving, seemingly, into a more operatic form of pop-rock (Queen-ish in some ways), while Radiohead seems to be deconstructing their sound to augment the bare essentials.
post #16 of 85
Their level of musicianship and songwriting prowess isn't lost on me, but that can't compensate for the boredom most of their work fills me with. "Starlight", "Muscle Museum", and "Supermassive Black Hole" are the only tracks of theirs I really enjoy; the rest I'm happy to skip or ignore.
post #17 of 85
I think the loose Queen comparisons are much more apt than Radiohead, they definitely seem to be moving into an anthemic stadium rock opera niche, and on that level it works very well. I'd never call myself a huge fan but whenever I hear them I do enjoy it I must say, the only singles I can honestly admit to loving are probably Knights Of Cydonia and Invincible
post #18 of 85
I still listen to Absolution on a fairly regular (2-3 times a month) basis, but it's still the only cd of theirs I own. For a short period of time I had intended to buy more, but evidently their effect on me wasn't as strong as I'd originally thought, and so the idea was quickly forgotten. I can't say that I really mind Bellamy's writing being mostly shallow, because if I held up the lyrics (theirs, or any other contemporary artists over the past 15 years or so) to a higher level of scrutiny, I would never be able to allow myself to buy any new music at all. Rush is still my favorite band in terms of lyrical content, and few (if any) artists have reached that thought provoking level for me since. Muse's main appeal to me has always been the strength and efficiency of their arrangements in spite of the wanting lyrics. If I had to cite a band that satisfies me in a similar fashion, I'd have to say Alice in Chains would be the best example. They both deliver great music with beautiful vocals, hampered ever so slightly by the lack of any real meaning behind the majority of their words.
post #19 of 85
While I'm still fairly new at getting into Muse (purchased Origin, listened to Black Holes through a friend), after seeing this amazing live version of Knights Of Cydonia I now wish they swung by my part of the US more often.

Seriously, that live version is so much better than the studio version of KoC that it baffles me.
post #20 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Shake View Post
While I'm still fairly new at getting into Muse (purchased Origin, listened to Black Holes through a friend), after seeing this amazing live version of Knights Of Cydonia
Hey, that's the concert I captioned that got me into them. Before that, I had completely discounted Muse. That performance sold me.
post #21 of 85
Every once in a while, a thread on Muse pops up, and I'm glad to see each thread getting progressively longer. I still don't get why they haven't gotten past a cult following here in the US.

I also see the Radiohead comparisons as being off the mark -- unless one means that Muse sounds like Radiohead, but with BALLS. They might very well be the best live band I've seen, and while either 'Absolution' or 'Black Holes and Revelations' are good introductory points, it's really the 'HAARP' live DVD that is the ultimate Muse experience -- the use of 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind' in the intro of the concert is a testatement that this band has always been out there in the ether (and they also follow up with a version of 'Knights' that's way better than the V version).

I'm fully expecting them to blow U2 out of the water when I see them in Raleigh.
post #22 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by pervis42 View Post
I also see the Radiohead comparisons as being off the mark -- unless one means that Muse sounds like Radiohead, but with BALLS.
Can we please not confuse "balls" with "louder"?

ETA: Yeah, I realize I just made that sentence into "Muse sounds like Radiohead, but with louder."
post #23 of 85
Thread Starter 
The Radiohead tag really only applies to Showbiz, which is a more formal, less extravagent version of the Muse sound and as such the comparison is more apt.
post #24 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
Can we please not confuse "balls" with "louder"?
I don't see it as "louder." Perhaps "flamboyance," or "willingness to dangerously close to going full retard." It seems to me that Muse with each progressive album is willing to go places sonically that are so easy to ridicule that any sense of self-consciousness needs to be left behind. In that respect I see comparisons to Queen to be more apt.

Perhaps "Radiohead fronted by a demented Freddy Mercury" is a better description.
post #25 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by pervis42 View Post
I don't see it as "louder." Perhaps "flamboyance," or "willingness to dangerously close to going full retard." It seems to me that Muse with each progressive album is willing to go places sonically that are so easy to ridicule that any sense of self-consciousness needs to be left behind. In that respect I see comparisons to Queen to be more apt.

Perhaps "Radiohead fronted by a demented Freddy Mercury" is a better description.
I've only heard "Supermassive Black Hole" from the last album (I've heard the previous three all the way through), but I just don't hear anything all that risky in what they're doing. Pop fans like flashy and vapid and putting a dance beat behind arena rock isn't exactly pushing the envelope.

I mean there's something to be said for straight-ahead bombastic hooks, like on "Time is Running Out," but to answer Spike's question from his first post, there's not much to think about. With Radiohead, there's lots to think about.
post #26 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
I've only heard "Supermassive Black Hole" from the last album (I've heard the previous three all the way through), but I just don't hear anything all that risky in what they're doing. Pop fans like flashy and vapid and putting a dance beat behind arena rock isn't exactly pushing the envelope.
Well, to me tracks like 'Butterflies and Hurricanes' and 'Knights of Cydonia' do push the envelope, but that's a reflection of my knowledge of contemporary rock music, which I'll concede is not as well-rounded as yours.

Quote:
I mean there's something to be said for straight-ahead bombastic hooks, like on "Time is Running Out," but to answer Spike's question from his first post, there's not much to think about. With Radiohead, there's lots to think about.
Funny you should say that. I had originally intended to make a point that Radiohead could be referred to as "Muse with brains."

The Radiohead vs. Muse argument seems to echo ones I've heard comparing the Beatles to the Rolling Stones and REM to U2. In each case, it's a matter of music to think about vs. music that is best experienced from the neck down.
post #27 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Muse have released the track list of their upcoming album, “The Resistance”.
1. Uprising
2. Resistance
3. Undisclosed Desires
4. United States of Eurisia (+Collateral Damage)
5. Guiding Light
6. Unnatural Selection
7. MK Ultra
8. I Belong to You (+Mon Coeur S’oUVRE A Ta Voix)
9. Exogenesis : Symphony Part I (Overture)
10. Exogenesis : Symphony Part II (Cross Pollination)
11. Exogenesis : Symphony Part [...]
That's from the official site. Looks like they've gone a bit Mars Volta...
post #28 of 85
The bass player is amazing. The other guys in the band can def play. The songs are generic but well-written enough. They wear their influences on their sleeve.

The energy is pretty great though contributing to a huge overall sound. That's what makes Muse work. I don't like their slower stuff too much. Live, they were fantastic (no slow songs.)

As far as comparisons go, the Radiohead thing is fairly superficial since they seem to be interested in exploring different things about the music they play. They just happen to naturally sound sorta like them due to technique, shared influences, vocal inflections. Muse is def a neck-down band and Radiohead is for the most part a neck-up badn but I don't know if that's the main difference. Muse seems to be made for the arena. The theatrics, the bombast and melodrama all point towards a sound fitting on a giant stage. Radiohead's music is more introspective, intimate and cerebral. Works great on a huge stage, as anyone who's seen them live can tell you, but it doesn't seem tailored for it.
post #29 of 85
Thread Starter 
It's a shame that Bellamy seems to avoid playing piano live nowadays. When I saw them touring Origin of Symmetery he was transitioning from guitar to piano all the time, when I saw them last year he only played piano on Butterflies and Hurricanes.
post #30 of 85
I'm an unabashed fan. For them, it doesn't get better than Absolution. That album still kicks my ass. Can't wait for the album and the tour.
post #31 of 85
I got into them pretty much off the back of KOC winning the Triple J Hottest 100 a couple of years back, and my awareness of Time is Running out having been given a fair bit of airplay when it was being released. So my collection essentially started with the HAARP cd/dvd release, immediately upon which I was hooked, and I will forever associate the live version of Plug in Baby with my first ever trip to Europe and driving around France, manically trying to get from Paris to Tours. I can't help but feel a little gutted that they actually had toured Australia not too long before they came onto my radar and so I missed a sterling opportunity to see them live. So far the Resistance tour dates don't seem to contemplate another visit down here, sadly. I have to say, I haven't really found them to be as self-consciously serious as others have. I recall an interview with Bellamy where he defended "Starlight" as a single, because (paraphrasing) its not often that a straight pop song is appreciated for being just that, and I have to agree, it's perfect pop and I love it for being just that.

AS to the Bellamy not addressing the audience thing, again, I think it was in an interview in Q magazine where the drummer Dominic and Bellamy both agreed that Dominic has just got more of the front-man type personality, he's the one more comfortable doing it, so he does it, and Bellamy just plays the shit out of everything. Works for me.
post #32 of 85
Bellamy is a much better guitarist than most people give him credit for. He's easy to ignore on album, but live the guy is effortless.

Listen to Starlight again and tell me it isn't the lost credit pop song from 'The Fountain'. It's uncanny.
post #33 of 85
Have to say I love these guys. They've got amazing songs that really catch your attention. I also like that you can hear different influences in their songs like in KOC, Hoodoo, and such.
post #34 of 85
Triple J (national radio station down here) played United States of Eurasia off the new album this morning. First impressions: Building on the nuances on BH&R, on this track, at least, the band's gone full Queen. What lyrics I could pick out I wasn't terribly inspired by, but seriously, it was like Freddie Mercury never died.
post #35 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ianthe View Post
Triple J (national radio station down here) played United States of Eurasia off the new album this morning. First impressions: Building on the nuances on BH&R, on this track, at least, the band's gone full Queen. What lyrics I could pick out I wasn't terribly inspired by, but seriously, it was like Freddie Mercury never died.
Just downloaded the track. My sentiments exactly.
post #36 of 85
Really dig the new song.

Is it me or did they sneak some Temple of Doom in there as well?
post #37 of 85
NME radio has been playing the track this week too. It is all Queen.
post #38 of 85
Feeling good is incredible live.

If I were still a student, it'd be the kind of overplayed tune i'd edit a trailer to.
post #39 of 85
The full version of the song is out and about.

Queen + Chopin??!?! I'd like to see how that translates live.
post #40 of 85
Triple J had Chris on this morning (via phone) and played "Uprising". In Chris' (paraphrased) words "Goldfrapp as done by a rock band". I think that's a pretty concise assessment. Essentially same/similar lyrical content/theme as "United States..." but as you would guess a lot more like a dance tune. Great fun tune, but again, disappointing lyrics.
post #41 of 85
I heard "Uprising" yesterday and loved it. Although it's different, it's still Muse. Just bought the single this morning. Can't wait until the album comes out!
post #42 of 85
I love Eurasia but Uprising has grown on me after a few listens.



I just saw The Holy Mountain over the weekend so that was the first thing that popped into my head when I saw this cover.
post #43 of 85
I was sold on these guys after their three-song-set on Live from Abbey Road. I never got a feeling of emptiness you guys are describing, but more of a feeling of "Fuck, why do I bother making my own music nowaday. These guys have it down pat".

I love 'em more than any other rock band to come out n the last 15 years, that's for sure.
post #44 of 85
I've been a Muse fan since around Origin of... , however I really got into them when Absolution came out and have seen them several times (I actualy went back stage at a Brixton accademy gig when they brought out origin and got to meet the guys).

I hated them at first; I am a guitar player and an ex-girlfriend that I used to be in a band with kind of knew Matt belamay as he was growing up and was kind of jelous of the guy (she was also a clasically trained musician and so would point out how many classical songs Matt bellamy has blatently ripped off - in her opinion, however i have sinse heard a few claiccal people saying this). Matt B actualy played guitar on a couple of the demos before i joined the band and so I had to re-work some of the guitar parts that he recorded into my style.

Anyway, I ended up really getting into the band and they are now one of my favourite bands.
The Radiohead comparisons came about when they first came out because of Matts' voice has similarities to Thoms Yorks', however the music is totaly different (baring some thom york style vocal flourishes here and there and a few radiohead influened parts on ShowBiz - the pre chorus build up on Muscle Museum for example is v.similar to that of "The Bends"). Also, I think that poeple who have either not listened to a whole Muse album and or have very limited knowlege of music/bands lazily say that they are just a weak Radiohead rippoff. Both Matt belamy and Thom Yorke are into Jeff Buckley and people like that, so they will have similar styles at times. I do know that Matt was realy into Radiohead though when he was growing up on Devon so...

It seems like a lot of people posting on here really haven't listened to Origin..of much; that album is heavy and progressive with Rage against the machine influences on some tracks for example. I say that because it seems like most poeple on here don't see how far from their roots BHAR and especialy the 2 new tunes are. They've always had great melodies in their tunes whch is why they grew on me and Absolution definately had more mature understated songs and ballads, however they are fast descending into cheesyness and i feel like Matt B has lost his ability to know what is in good taste (as far as IMO his taste was good previously, if a bordering on over the top at times).
The verses of "Knight of..." and the whole of "Invincible" are just cring worthy in my opinion; which is how I feel about the two tracks I've heard from the new album. Don't get me wrong, I love "Map of the problematique" (please excuse my spelling -i'm at work and have to type fast) - a great a example of Muse maturing and simplifying there sound and making them more direct; but while maintaining some class and good taste. I also love most of the rest of BHAR, however I feel like Muse (or should I day Matt B) have lost thier spark and their instincts for a dirty riff with some attitude or piano played with venom on something like "Space Dementia".
I think the problem might be that Matt has run out of angst, fallen in Love and is more into creating Queen style anthems; which is cool and I'm happy for the guy, but maybee he should concider a solo album for this stuff or writing a musical (this is bound to happen some day)? - that way Muse can still be Muse without diluting their output. I also wish the other two guys in the band would sometimes say "ahh, hey Matt, erm... not so sure about this tune..".

I live in the U.K and I've actualy baught a ticket to see Muse in Berlin when I go on holiday there in October. I'm sure the show will be great as usual, however I fear that the new tunes will be a real downer:-(

This is all just my opinion though and I'm sure other people will hear their tunes in a different way to me.

One thing i will say though, is that I don't think thier lyrics/songs are meaningless; maybee some people who are usualy into pop are not used to thinking about the lyrics and interpreting them and using some imagination.
post #45 of 85
I like 'Uprising' and all, but all those half-baked lyrics have a high potentiality to be co-opted by Glenn Beck types...

EDIT: Too late. Shit, that's the last thing those retards need -- a fight song.
post #46 of 85
Heard "Undisclosed Desires" this morning. Made me think of...Madonna? Is this whole album a bunch of musical impersonations? That's probably too harsh a comment, but we'll see: Triple J will being 1 new track a day from the album til Friday and then playing the whole album from midday (Australian eastern standard time) on Friday.
post #47 of 85
the Rsistance leaked, and holy crap, it's REALLY good.
post #48 of 85
Previous Muse albums have been collections of hits and misses. But this... this is fuckin' good.
post #49 of 85
Remember how they sound a bit clasical? They went to 11 with it. It's a full-on Queen homage. I love it. I liked Absolution, loved Black Holes, but this...
post #50 of 85
This is one HELL of an album. Muse's muse is definitely Queen on this one.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Music
CHUD.com Community › Forums › MUSIC › Music › Muse