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Use Your Illusion II

post #1 of 32
6/26/09 at 1:05pm
Thread Starter 
So yeah, that little snippet of "You Could Be Mine" in Terminator Salvation made me want to throw Use Your Illusion II back into the rotation for the first time in many years.

And I can't finish it. I suppose it's just aged poorly, but listening to it now, it's grating on my nerves. Axl Rose's lyrics and vocals are so self-indulgent that they almost feel like self-parody, but this was produced back in a time when Guns N' Roses was still taken seriously.

Slash is on an entirely different plain. He's playing head and shoulders above the rest of the band. But even his best riffs and solos are diminished by overproducing and Axl's incoherent ramblings in multiple octaves.

"You Could Be Mine" is basically the only track on the album that still works (and arguably "Knocking On Heaven's Door").

I'm morbidly curious now, to see how the rest of Guns N' Roses' discography holds up. If anyone has any opinions on the matter, I'd love to read them. Alternatively, talk about albums that most in the majority used to consider kickass, that are now just laughable/intolerable.
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post #2 of 32
6/26/09 at 1:12pm
I don't think there's any doubt "Appetite" holds up, and I'm a big fan of "Illusion I".

I can't remember the last time I listened to "Illusion II", but your comment about Axl's rambling reminded me of a song, I think it's Breakdown, where a great Slash solo has this stupid speech over the top of it. Even the hardcore GN'R fans hate that.

Not a fan of Estranged though?
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post #3 of 32
6/26/09 at 1:15pm
I can't listen to any GnR stuff anymore, not even 'Appetite for Destruction'. Axl's vocals sound consistently like nails on a chalkboard to my current set of musical ears.

My dislike for the band probably started on their Use Your Illusion megatour with Metallica and Faith No More. Both FNM and Metallica put on great, professional shows, and then GnR came on (45 minutes late) and put on one of the worst concerts that I've ever seen. Slash was good, but the rest of the band was way off and loose.
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post #4 of 32
6/26/09 at 1:15pm
get rid of all the albums and by the greatest hits instead.

You will thank me for it.
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post #5 of 32
6/26/09 at 1:21pm
I'll bite.

The best song on both albums is November Rain IMO, but right behind it is II's Civil War.



I's highpoints:
2. "Dust N' Bones"
3. "Live and Let Die"
4. "Don't Cry"
8. "Back Off Bitch"
10. "November Rain"
15. "Dead Horse"


II's highpoints

1. "Civil War"
2. "14 Years"
3. "Yesterdays"
4. "Knockin' on Heaven's Door"
11. "Estranged"
12. "You Could Be Mine"
13. "Don't Cry (Alternate Lyrics)"
14. "My World"
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post #6 of 32
6/26/09 at 1:23pm
I know it's not technically GnR, but I'm quite fond of Chinese Democracy. There's one or two genuinely dubious tracks on there, but the rest range from just good to pretty great.

Even 'Shacklers Revenge', which i found laughable on my first listen has grown on me.
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post #7 of 32
6/26/09 at 1:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompoussory Estoppel View Post

I's highpoints:
2. "Dust N' Bones"
3. "Live and Let Die"
4. "Don't Cry"
8. "Back Off Bitch"
10. "November Rain"
15. "Dead Horse"
Hell I'd add Perfect Crime, Double Talkin' Jive, Bad Obsession, Garden of Eden, Don't Damn Me, Bad Apples and how can anyone not love Coma!

Quote:
14. "My World"
!!!
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post #8 of 32
6/26/09 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Savage View Post
get rid of all the albums and by the greatest hits instead.

You will thank me for it.
Looking over the tracklist, there's no "Mr. Brownstone," no "Nighttrain," no "You're Crazy"...sorry, I think Appetite is still essential.
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post #9 of 32
6/26/09 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Faraday View Post

!!!
Indeed.

Matt's right; Appetite for Destruction is still a preferable accompaniment to any Greatest Hits. That said, I've still got a lot of time for ... Illusion II. "14 Years", "Get in the Ring", and "You Could Be Mine" are three I'm very fond of. I've not listened to the album from beginning to end since around the age of 15, though.
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post #10 of 32
6/26/09 at 2:23pm
I don't understand how anyone could call My World a highlight, but that being said, I dig pretty much all of their albums within reason.
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post #11 of 32
6/26/09 at 2:30pm
No love for "Locomotive"? I like it, even with the pretentious coda.
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post #12 of 32
6/26/09 at 2:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomstick View Post
I don't understand how anyone could call My World a highlight, but that being said, I dig pretty much all of their albums within reason.
Even "The Spaghetti Incident"?!?
And "Appetite" remains a great cover-to-cover album to this day.
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post #13 of 32
6/26/09 at 3:03pm
The whole opus sounds tinny compared to today's recording standards, IMO. I still love Dead Horse and You Could Be Mine, but the pair of records are usually skipped when I'm looking for some good shit to listen to.
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post #14 of 32
6/26/09 at 3:12pm
I've always been curious what GNR's output would have been like if Appetite hadn't hit so big. Both Illusion albums are decent, but they're a living record of egos and lifestyles gone out of control. I would have loved to have heard a couple more Appetite-ish albums from a lean, hungry band that didn't think every whim they had was genius.

I've got a soft spot for Spaghetti, myself, but that may well be because it served me well as an introduction to a lot of the bands being covered.
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post #15 of 32
6/26/09 at 3:43pm
I find Use Your Illusion II pretty listenable, particularly Civil War and Knockin on Heaven's Door. Use Your Illusion I however, outside of November Rain, my preferred version of Don't Cry and Live and Let Die I have little use for.

Appetite and Lies have still aged well as far as I'm concerned, I love them.
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post #16 of 32
6/26/09 at 4:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattioli View Post
Even "The Spaghetti Incident"?!?
And "Appetite" remains a great cover-to-cover album to this day.
Spaghetti Incident is a cover album, and it's alright as one.
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post #17 of 32
6/26/09 at 5:10pm
"My World" is one of the most embarrassing pieces of music I've heard from any group, ever (all things considered).
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post #18 of 32
6/26/09 at 5:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeypants View Post
"My World" is one of the most embarrassing pieces of music I've heard from any group, ever (all things considered).
No joke. Somehow, I had managed to block "My World" from memory, and it kicked off (literally) my discomfort with the album. It's funny - Chinese Democracy is like 14 tracks of "My World" quality. Apparently, when left to his own whims and tastes, My World is the pinnacle for Axl Rose.

"Get In The Ring" sounds like something even the bullshit bands of today would have felt embarrassed hearing themselves play on the radio. An entire song about Axl Rose calling out haters and critics, telling them to "suck his ass" and step up so he can beat them up? I've heard second rate gansta rappers pull off the same thing with more class and dignity.

But no, even in songs like "Locomotive" and "Estranged", the only saving grace for me was Slash's guitar playing. The guy can shift between blues and hard rock riffs seamlessly. I sound like I'm deifying Slash here as a guitarist, but my memories of Guns N' Roses were of this kickass, no-nonsense rock and roll band that played with skill and attitude. Looking back now, Slash was the only one that seemed to fit that bill.

Not to derail my own thread, but he's the only part of Velvet Revolver that could hold my interest, as well.
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post #19 of 32
6/26/09 at 6:03pm
I get a kick out of My World being so terrible.
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post #20 of 32
6/26/09 at 6:12pm
I'll stick to L.A. Guns.
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post #21 of 32
6/26/09 at 6:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrVenkman View Post
I know it's not technically GnR, but I'm quite fond of Chinese Democracy. There's one or two genuinely dubious tracks on there, but the rest range from just good to pretty great.


Also, lest we ever forget, My World is tied for most embarrassing GnR song with One In A Million.
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post #22 of 32
6/26/09 at 6:55pm
No love for "Appetite" even, Elvis?

Hey I like Chinese Democracy! So send some of that slapping over this way.
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post #23 of 32
6/26/09 at 7:41pm
Lol, smug Glenn Ford slapping aside, what can I say? Is it golden era GnR (If there was such a thing)? No it isn't. Does it have some strong songs on it though? Yeah it does. 'There was a time' is probably one of Axel's best vocal performances, particulary the ending.

I think it suffers from the fact that Axel doesn't actually have a band, but for an album that was 18 years in the making and I wasn't expecting anything from, it turned out not bad at all.
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post #24 of 32
6/26/09 at 7:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
I can't listen to any GnR stuff anymore, not even 'Appetite for Destruction'. Axl's vocals sound consistently like nails on a chalkboard to my current set of musical ears.

My dislike for the band probably started on their Use Your Illusion megatour with Metallica and Faith No More. Both FNM and Metallica put on great, professional shows, and then GnR came on (45 minutes late) and put on one of the worst concerts that I've ever seen. Slash was good, but the rest of the band was way off and loose.
Are you talking about the show at the Metrodome? I was there for that as well and you're absolutely right. GnR was a major disappointment, especially after being set-up so damn well by Faith No More and Metallica. I seem to remember their set being especially short which was grating considering how late they took the stage. My fondest memory of their performance actually was Slash advising the crowd to have a safe drive home, citing the wicked thunderstorms that night. Thanks for caring, Slash.
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post #25 of 32
6/26/09 at 8:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.T. View Post

An entire song about Axl Rose calling out haters and critics, telling them to "suck his ass" and step up so he can beat them up? I've heard second rate gansta rappers pull off the same thing with more class and dignity.
Its ridiculousness is precisely why it's fun. It is by no means a classic track, but I bet if you stuck it on in a rock club it'd meet with more cheers than groans. Also, you did Duff McKagan a grave disservice just now. Firstly, I'm not his (or classic Guns N' Roses' biggest fan.) There aren't many more badass, no-nonsense rock n' roll bassists who play with skill and attitude than Duff, though; exhibits A & B are "Attitude" and "New Rose" on The Spaghetti Incident, an album about which Boomstick's spot-on, by the way.
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post #26 of 32
6/26/09 at 8:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Faraday View Post
No love for "Appetite" even, Elvis?
When they first blew up I mocked. My crew was on the other side of the playground.

But, yeah, by summer 89, I was all about that record.

As a teenager, couldn't escape it.

Memories of sitting around in friends' basement, playing "Axis & Allies"/"Shogun", and listening to either GnR or N.W.A on mix.

It was a great record to get pumped up to before a baseball, soccer or B-ball game. And it made the bad girls horny.

Summer and fall 91, right before Nirvana exploded with the new style, forcing a musical re-evaluation, rocked "Use Your Illusion" and Metallica's "Black" as well. ("November Rain" almost served as a senior year coda)

Kurt kind of made Axel seem ridiculous, but by decade's end, his kind of rock star was sorely missed. World needs him and David Lee Roth.

Haven't heard "Chinese Democracy". Now I'd rather listen to The Stooges.
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post #27 of 32
6/27/09 at 12:20am
Never was a huge Appetite fan, but I dig both the UYI discs. UYI I rocks harder, but II's operatic and epic feeling gives the music its own identity. It's messy and beautiful. Some of Axl's greatest lyrics are on that disc.

The sheer cartoony nature of 'Get in the Ring' never gets old. McKagan's vocals on 'So Fine' can compete with Axl's best.

That said, I rarely listen to GN'R anymore. Once in awhile I'll be in the mood for one of these.
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post #28 of 32
6/27/09 at 10:47am
I like Chinese very much. It's not Illusion or Appetite, but it's still better than most of the shit that gets released out there.
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post #29 of 32
6/27/09 at 10:53am
I agree. It's got a few stinkers, but so do the Use Your Illusions*. I had to give the disc something like ten listens before it got to that point(hated most of it at first), I doubt most people have the patience for that.

*it never reaches the high points of those discs though.
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post #30 of 32
6/27/09 at 2:58pm
I'm more a fan of some of their tracks off Smell The Glove myself...
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post #31 of 32
6/27/09 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richason View Post
Are you talking about the show at the Metrodome? I was there for that as well and you're absolutely right. GnR was a major disappointment, especially after being set-up so damn well by Faith No More and Metallica. I seem to remember their set being especially short which was grating considering how late they took the stage. My fondest memory of their performance actually was Slash advising the crowd to have a safe drive home, citing the wicked thunderstorms that night. Thanks for caring, Slash.
Yep, that's ths show. By the time that it ended, a major thunderstorm system had crept in and it was a MESS outside. I remember Slash being very genuine in his concern for our drive home.

The only highlight of that entire GnR set was Slash's solo/Godfather theme. The rest of their concert was absolute garbage.
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post #32 of 32
6/27/09 at 4:56pm
I'm going to sound like a broken record, but these two releases could have been meshed together to compile one great record. There's just too much filler on both of them.
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