There are way too many Creationists on Facebook... - Page 2

I'm not saying those people aren't idiots, i'm just saying why do you care?

There will always be religious zealots trying to force their beliefs onto others.

I was raised Catholic but nothing was forced upon me. I don't go to church. But I believe in "a" God. Whether He created everything or not, I have no clue.

I don't know if you've heard, but Rick Perry is looking to nominate yet another anti-education right-winger to the Texas Board of Education after they got rid of one last year. I know that probably doesn't mean much since nobody here is stuck going to school in Texas, but it means a lot for kids currently attending public schools, mostly because the textbook industry looks at Texas and California as their biggest markets.

As go the markets, so go textbook sales, and the people overseeing the approval of these books put a lot of stock into both CA and TX's influence. The books are basically designed to cater to the population of both of these states.

So now we have textbook companies that have to tailor their content to fit if some dumbass flat-earth nincompoop gets up in arms about the presence of the word "evolution" in a science book, or doesn't like the way a history text portrays the United States participation (or lack thereof) in a historical event, etc.

It's not that obvious of a problem, but it's one of the many insidious ways that this mindset worms its way into the mainstream. And that's fucked.

I totally agree with that. That shit should have no place in schools. That stuff should always be separate.

I love you.

Hold on a minute... I think you just proved we evolved from dinosaurs.

Right in front of our faces all these years!

Maybe this argument has been trotted out a hundred times before and been dismissed by creationists, I'm on the other side of the world to this debate and the very few creationists there are here in Australia don't advertise it generally because they get publically pointed at while people cackle hysterically, but you don't need to trot out fossil records, bones, genomes of chimps or anything that scientific to prove evolution - because humans have done it too.

Yep, we personally ourselves have evolved a species into a myriad of sub species that could or would never have existed without our personal hand in selectively breeding them over the period of probably about 30,000 years.

Just tell a creationist how humanity went from this:



to creating this:



...and then ask if we can do this 'selective breeding' thing, why the hell can't it have happened naturally exactly?

Or did god create the world and simply started off with a shitload of different types of dogs? Cause we have, you know, recorded human history that actually states otherwise.

My daughter will be in a few years. I'm going to write a letter to the governor about this, for whatever little it will be worth. It's doing such a disservice to education and the welfare of the state as a whole now, with repercussions years hence, that I am numb with rage. The last guy put in charge of public schools and the probable appointee both home-schooled their children. I think this goes past irony and comes out the other side.

That's what I completely don't get - why on earth would you think it's a good idea to appoint someone who vehemently opposes the concept of public education to...you know, a board of public education? I'd like to grab Perry by his well-ironed lapels and scream that question into his face. And if I get a weak-ass answer like "Well, I thought it would be beneficial to have a multitude of viewpoints" or some crazy shit about the "pagan left" like one board member remarked when the aforementioned Mr. MacElroy was dismissed from his spot on the board, I'm going to cut him off by howling "WRROOOOONNNGG!!" and doing something very, very depraved and blasphemous to him.

I'm gonna give him a noogie and TOTALLY screw up his hair.

I don't understand why people feel like they have to validate someone's dumbass ideas by giving them some sort of input with respect to something that they refuse to understand or take part in. Aside from the fact that it's usually pretty easy to tell whether or not someone was homeschooled within 30 minutes or so of being in their company, anyone who uses the word "indoctrinated" or any variation of that in the same sentence as "public education" needs to be shoved into a pile of mud and ridiculed.

The public school I attended glossed over any discussion of evolution for fear of reaping the siren-like whining ire of the Southern Baptist churches in the town, and that's absolute bullshit. They had to tiptoe around the idea because a bunch of perpetually shrieking douchebags with majority rule would flip out if their kids came home and mentioned a crosswise word that wasn't in lockstep with their belief system, and then they had the balls to point their fingers and howl about "promoting agendas" and all other sorts of nonsense in the same breath.

This one always aggravates me personally. The problem is these people are just to stupid to understand the story of creation or the bible itself. The story is about a lot of things, but it not really about creation, and it admits that there are a lot of other people around at the time, besides Adam and his family. The real problem is that these people are to stupid to understand evolution, and evolution is simple compared the bible creation story.

At time like these I just like to remember what some conspiracy writer once said, “ Most conspiracies are not conspiracies, people are just really that stupid.”

I've never heard of this guy. Does he oppose public education? It's possible he home-schooled his children because the public schools were crummy, and now he's in a position to do something about it.

Of course, being an American the odds are likely that it's because he lives in fear of facts that contradict his fairytale of choice, but I'm trying to be charitable.

In the public sphere, I think it's because to not pander would be asking for the religious right, and the right in general, to unleash their propaganda merchants on you and ruin your career and/or personal life.

It'd be nice if someone gave creationists their way, but made it clear this is why.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/loc...Education.html

Fixed.

Fear is the last thing I feel from these people. Shame is a bit more on the mark.

The masses will always be stupid, and should always be feared.

Ignore them at your peril.

Incidentally, I take it this facebook poll is designed to decide once-and-for-all who is corrrect?

Once the poll closes we will all have to abide by this, the final vote on the history of life on earth.

Genesis 3:17-18 "and Lo God did create yorkie-poo shizus and fluffy they were and cute. And God commanded: take these impractical animals and dress them in evening wear in crude mockery of human and therefore, vicariously, my appearance."

Yeah that's what's being missed in all of this- it's a fucking poll on FACEBOOK. Holds about as much weight as "What 80s movie character are you?" in the grand scheme of things.

When shit like this is voted on in a real setting, that's when the fear should set in.

It's just, me personally, I don't care what other people think. I know I should, but I just need to worry about myself and my loved ones. I don't care what others believe, and I won't get worked up over it and hate them over it.

But it's a wonderful country we are priviledged enough to live in that we are allowed to voice our opinions and bash either side.

The whole point is, though, that it COULD affect you or your loved ones.

It is like saying, "Well, nobody in MY family has been mugged yet, so why should I worry about rampant muggings in my neighborhood."

People who think like this are in power, and that is scary.

Exactly. The best thing that can come of these people getting power is you having to teach your kids science. The worst is a whole lot worse (as this doesn't tend to be the only crazy belief these people have). I know it's extreme and probably hyperbole, but you ever read/seen V for Vendetta.

I don't hear much dissent on capitol hill. Or anywhere outside of facebook. Or anywhere important. Also, voicing opinions without actual dialogue and discussion is as pointless as shouting at a wall, because neither person is listening only "voicing".

And - while we are at it - the ability to have and change an opinion is a human right, and something that most of the planet can do as a matter of course, patting yourself and your country on the back for something that people in other places have been able to do for hundreds of years before your country was even born is myopic at best and arrogant at worst.

It's like breathing, you live in a country wonderful enough to allow free breathing. Well fucking done.

50 percent of this country doesn't believe in evolution...

That okay I no longer believe in this country. I plan to be out of it in 5 years or less any ways

All that's kind of crazy.

You know who I blame for all of this (and by this I mean Perry's horrible reign)? The fucktards who all laughed when the Democrats fled to state to avoid the gerrymandering vote. Oh it was soooo funny. Because of that vote the lines were redrawn and the ass clown Republicans got to steal more votes.

Now I'm off to right a letter to Rick Perry and Charlie Geren and a few other Texas statesmen.

You have no idea how truly lucky you are. I've been on FB for about a month or so now, and out of all the (88?) friends I've been reconnected with so far, I'd say at least 90% are this way. It's so utterly depressing to hear them go on and on about how God saved their wretched, pathetic lives and how they absolutely hate the people they once were. Now granted, a lot of these people actually were shitbags back when I knew them 20 years ago, but the ones who weren't really disappoint me in that they've chosen to simply put their brains on auto-pilot and just stay the course that the bible and their church so conveniently lay out for them.

This would all be SO much easier to take if they just loved God and kept it to themselves like some are able to do, but these people can't. Everyday it's countless scripture and endless religious talk flooding my wall. I've never bitched at/blocked/deleted any of them for doing this, but I was virtually stoned to death (and several have deleted me) by this mob of "friends" when I initially brought the healthy and necessary counterpoint into their daily lives. They finally just gave up sparring with me directly as I offered too much science and reason and they didn't know what to do with me anymore but to just drop out of the argument entirely.

Maybe some of them don't believe in creationism, but are too scared to invoke the wrath of the rest in admitting as much for fear of being lumped in with me as a result, which to be perfectly honest, would probably be one of the best things that could ever happen to them. I don't claim to know if there indeed is a God or not, but I'm certainly not willing to accept such a concept with blind-folded fear.

I really need to move.

lollers

What? If I right a letter good things will happen...right? Don't shatter my dreaaaam.

And Uth be careful. You can have faith in a religion (yes even the now ever popular evangelical Christianity) and not be a creationist. Hell I know tons of people who don't believe in creationism, that includes an Episcopal priest and a Cistercian monk (I think there was something in the water where I went to college), but are still quite religious. I always hate to see intelligent people get lumped in with the folks that will place all their faith in a God or a politician or a pastor rather then think for themselves.

Though I'll admit that a lot of evangelicals take Job a little too close to heart and interpret blind faith as the only form of faith. What's really interesting is that nearly 25% of Americans identify as evangelical I love the big church christian. Yet it seems most folks one runs into are either Catholic or Protestant (poor Episcopalians account for a paltry single digit percentile).

Oh and I found the best way to tell if someone is a superJesusloverextraordinaire is to look under their favorite books and/or favorite film section. If Left Behind or FIREPROOF is listed then flame them with your beliefs until they get so upset they defriend you or convert.

Wolves and dogs people - it's all about the wolves and dogs...

The advertisements for this were ALL OVER THE PLACE when I went back to Texas earlier this year. Poor fucking hometown has like two billboards: both of them had FIREPROOF DVD adverts on one side and local businesses on the other. That's not even counting my sole venture to Wal-Mart that nearly had me in tears.

I tried reading the plot description of that fucking movie on wiki and it made my head hurt. This is entertainment to these people? Mike Seaver doing something called a 'Love Dare' and Jim Cavezial being brutalised?

Does being a Christian in America automatically condemn you to having shitty taste?

And why does Kirk Cameron look like such a smug shit-eating douche these days anyway?

That's actually an interesting question - I've always been curious about the seemingly massive divide between mainstream entertainment and Christian entertainment. Most of their books/movies have production values not too far removed from those of amateur gonzo porn.

I know that there's kind of a dearth of original material you could come up with when limited to the scope of Christianity (and chances are that it's just because the churches/clergy keep taking the money for themselves) and that they're more concerned with the message they're conveying rather than the vessel for the message, but aside from those obvious answers, why is it always so goddamn terrible-looking?

Also RE: Fireproof - it was nice to see the continued tradition of angry people (in this case, Cameron with his crippling porn addiction) attacking their computer monitors rather than the tower itself.

Well how else would he be able to secretly keep all his porn?

I almost want to sign up on Facebook just so I can read this shit.

An interesting link for everybody. Though short (and a citation can be found in the comments of all places), it puts the onus of Life in....thermodynamics:

Life is Possibly EVERYWHERE

Something to ruminate over.

Every species is a transitional species.

Cool.

What kills me is that creationists never stop to consider that evolution could easily be a process set in motion by God. Unless you're dealing with a raging biblical literalist, couldn't you look at something as amazingly complex and long-lasting as evolution and think there's an intelligence behind it? I'd have an easier time believing in a God who created a dynamic changing world than one who created everything as it is now.

That's called Theistic Evolution, Dickson, and I can easily throw my money behind that one. Heck, even Pope John Paul II believed in it. Kinda the best of both worlds with none of the football team mentality that has gripped the debate and never let go.

I was thrown out of a bibe study group (That I never wanted to be at in the first place) for posing this very idea. Man those Baptists were pissed!

The point is, they don't want reality to creep in. They want it to be some superhero guy in the sky who is well beyond physical laws. They want God to be the guy who waves his hand and instantly makes the magic happen.

I was just about to pop in and say this. I mean, it's a theory that allows science to be science, religion to be religion. I know as a catholic aerospace engineer, it's what I believe. All it requires is a non-literal view of the bible, which any thinking human being should have anyway.

By the way, I did bring that up on my Facebook debate. It was conveniently ignored.

I can't, because there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever of any type of intelligence at all being any sort of driving force behind evolution. Or any other natural process, for that matter. So what is it that you find so compelling?

I don't think enough credence is given to Theistic Boyle's Law. Have you gentlemen thought about the stultifyingly complex totality of the interactions between each particle at each moment? The speeds vary, the electrons move in seemingly random orbits, the aggregate gas expands perfectly to fit its container. And it's always occuring, anywhere that isn't a vacuum. Couldn't you look at something as amazingly complex and long-lasting as the relationship between pressure and volume and think there's an intelligence behind it?

That would be cool, why the fuck isn't it happening?

No. We're used to cause and effect. That's why people made up stories about sky spirits and thunder gods. But when you look for them, they're nowhere to be seen. They are not evident, they are not necessary. Why believe in them? Besides, our intuition about how things must be is pretty useless. Relativity isn't intuitive, quantum mechanics isn't intuitive, the behaviour of degenerate gases isn't intuitive, and I can pretty much guarantee that whatever comes along to unify relativity and quantum mechanics won't be intuitive either.

This alleged creator is even more complex and long-lasting. Where's the intelligence behind it?

That's when you tell them monkeys do and ask if they've been paying attention. If you have Michelle Bachmann eyes, so much the better.