Racial profiling

I have quite a few black friends and they all agree if they're in the car... that's the one that gets pulled over. It's true, not right but true. That's racial profiling.

What happened to Gates is not and would happen to anyone of any skin color. You break into your house and if your neighbors don't know you... they're going to call the cops, especially in this economy when crime is on the rise. The right thing to do is to simply show your id and explain your story... the police will linger and look around even after you do that because it is their JOB. What if someone broke into your house... you live there but then they're holding you hostage? This is not unusual behavior by the police department. It is standard protocol.

What happened here is Gates was belligerent to the police officer, refused to show ID and when he finally did show ID and the officer cleared the scene theofficer left the house and Gates followed him to the street where he continued to be belligerent and caused a scene. The officer had no choice but to arrest him for disorderly conduct because HE BROKE THE LAW. Of course the charges were dropped, ask any police officer at any precinct how many disorderly conduct charges go to court? Usually after a cooling down period the person is released and charges are dropped.

As a reminder, for those of you that didn't read the police report. The witness who called 911 said there were TWO black males breaking into the house, simply having gates show his ID doesn't mean the officer leaves, he has to clear the scene.

What I think should be asked is: Would the cop have the same reaction if everything was the same except Gates was a distinguished looking white man in his fifties? I think not, therefore there was certainly racial profiling on the part of the cop.

And I didn't know that it was illegal to yell at a cop in the US. What happened to free speech? You can say that gays are pedophiles looking to corrupt your children but you can't tell a cop he's being a dick?

More like racism than profiling.

The whole thing is retarded, and is being used sophomorically by both "sides" to make exaggerated points.

It's Henry Louis Gates Jr., one of the foremost and highly respected scholars of anything in the country. I'd be pissed off, too.

And as the AP article points out, this seems to be part of a larger issue with police in the area.

He has every right to be pissed, and pursue whatever actions he feels the situation warrants. I just don't think it's worthy of multiple day front-page national news and endless hours of hand-wringing.

I'm just hearing about it now. I also think it's kind of funny that Dr. Gates, who I knew as a funny writer and a sweet guy from PBS, got arrested for telling a your momma joke.

Plus, the guy just got back from China and cannot walk with the aid of a cane. I think the real "racist" in this story is the woman who called the cops on him in the first place.

http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/a...nduct-3398.php
Look, white guy arrested for disorderly conduct

You can have freedom of speech but you can't disturb the peace.

Yeah Snaieke, a 20-year-old white guy making a scene in public in a crowded casino bar is exactly like a 58-year-old black man being arrested in his own home.

I've seen cops put up with unbelievable abuse and remain calm and professional, and I've seen cops blow up at the drop of a hat. But we'll just follow your sage advice and never ever get angry at authority figures, whether justified or not.

Papers, please.

He wasn't in his home and you're just being retarded.

ETA - with regard to the nazi comparison.

hahahaha

Yeah, Snaieke's got me, folks. The article goes on to mention that Gates was actually handcuffed outside his home, so therefore it's just exactly like the article about the white guy he linked to.

I've never felt so pwned. <slinks away in shame>

Exactly. He was ON HIS PORCH, you dumb fuck. I hope you're happy with your dumbness, you dummy dumbass dumb-dumb.

What are you talking about? There are photos with him handcuffed on his porch. That isn't part of his house?

Outside his home, shouting at onlookers... sure sounds disorderly to me.

Because the best way to properly deal with a black man shouting "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO BLACK MEN IN AMERICA!" is to arrest him for shouting "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO BLACK MEN IN AMERICA!"

And Snaieaieaieke, outside his home is still on his property.

Snaieke, you're basing your opinion on the police report? During the Soviet Union did you also use Pravda as a source of information?

Actually in several jurisdictions, being in your house means entering some sort of enclosed area. A porch owned by you could be the same as yelling on a city street in some areas. I'm not from Massachusetts, but their law might state that a person being on their porch might not be considered as being inside their home. Being on their property, sure. But that doesn't mean a police officer can't enter that property and arrest you for a myriad of reasons.

Not saying this situation was wrong or the officer was correct (frankly I think speculating without being there is a bit problematic), but a man can be arrested for a lot of reasons despite not being inside their home.

Gates obviously escalated the situation, but what happened is fucked. Yes, it touches on racism, but the more general point is the gutting of the Fourth Amendment and police who don't have any boundaries. Gates was at his house. There was a misunderstanding. The police came into Gates' house (when the man had done nothing illegal), and he ended up arrested. He was obviously mad as fuck. I would be too. I know he appeared to be up to no good, but the ultimate fact of the matter is that he wasn't. In that instance, it isn't incumbent on Gates to 'defuse' the situation and just do what the police say. The cops should have recognized there was a mistake, apologized, and left. That's part of their job too, along with the slamming guys to the ground and frisking kids for drugs. That part of the job was not only ignored in this instance, it was flouted to a respected member of the communities face.

"Thank you for complying with my earlier request," is what almost every report has one of the cops telling Gates as he was arresting him, referencing the incident at the beginning where Gates did not produce ID immediately. It's a smarmy, shithead thing to do, especially when you're IN THE MOTHERFUCKERS HOUSE.

I like how it's suddenly perfectly fine to arrest someone for being an ass.

Snaieke, don't be alarmed when the cruisers pull into your driveway, just assume the position.

As someone who has never been harrassed by cops because of my skin color I can't really understand why he didn't just let the cops look around, show his ID and be done with it. It seems that he over-reacted but we don't know what the cop really said so it is entirely possible Gates freaked for good reason. I guess it comes down to if you automatically think the worst in the cops or in Gates. Personally, I blame the cops because I hate cops.

While he shouldn't have been arrested for being black, he shouldn't get away with a crime (should one have been committed) just because he's an accomplished gentleman.

I'm betting he didn't do anything that would normally get much of anyone arrested. On the other hand, if someone thinks your house is getting broken into (and, in this case, it WAS getting broken into, just by the owner), then when the cops show up you should have the ability to say, "Oh, I can see why the neighbor called, The door was stuck and we had to force the door open. Here's my ID, it's my house. I'm sure the neighbor saw the driver and thought something odd was happening. Here's the driver's ID. What do we need to do to clear this up?"

I imagine the cop was being an ass when he showed up - that makes him an ass - not someone you chase into the street to yell at, but someone whose badge number you record and discuss it with his supervisor. Anyone who chases after a cop and makes a scene is likely to get arrested on some stupid charge, and breaking into your own house in such a way as it disturbs the neighbor is probably technically a 'disturbance of the peace' anyway. I'm not saying arresting him was remotely the right thing to do here, but if he'd risen above the situation and identified himself right off it probably wouldn't have happened. The cop is probably an ass, but it looks like the professor was one - at least briefly - as well.

I don't see this as any different than if it had happened on any other street in any other neighborhood. Cops don't appreciate being harassed for doing their jobs - and someone did break into the house, so it was a justified call, and the cop should have investigated. I think likely from there it was a matter of two men being indignant assholes and playing the I'm-bigger-than-you game until it got away from them. In this case, instead of turning into an idiotic brawl it turned into an idiotic arrest.

If police have probable cause, they have a right to enter any house. If they see meth being made into a home, they have a right to enter. If they see someone being murdered, they have a right to enter. If they receive a phone call saying someone is breaking into a home, they have a right to enter the home to determine if the person is the actual owner of the home.

Being a respected member of the community doesn't mean shit when the police are called to investigate a crime.

The police do have a duty to back off if the person shows enough evidence that they actually own the home. I don't know if that was done in this case or not, but they do have a right to investigate after questioning the person.

Interesting take:

We'll be seeing all kinds of shit-storms over Obama's "acted stupidly" comment last night.

This has nothing to do with anything, there was no crime. It is technically a crime to not produce ID IF you are being detained in the commission of a crime, in the suspicion of a crime, or as a witness to a crime. So he was technically committing a crime by not IDing the first time, as he was a suspect. However, by the time they arrested him, he had already produced evidence that it was his house, and so the 'investigation' was over, and he was no longer a suspect. The cops knew this, and Gates wasn't going to be charged with shit. Therefore, they arrested him just to prove a point. That point being: we're cops, we don't care who you are, you're going to jail. My point is, I don't think people should be dragged off to jail unless there's, you know, a reason. It's a waste of offier manhours, its a shitton of unnecessary paperwork and, ultimately, it's wasted taxpayer dollars. Take that, Muharulz!

Now we just have to determine if arresting someone simply to save face in front of a large crowd and flex your authoritative muscles is the same as racism.

We should probably look at who this cop voted for to clarify.

As to the profiling question, I wouldn't say it was, at least not on the part of the officer. He was rightly responding to a call. As for the neighbor, I find it sad that not only did they not recognize their neighbor, and not only did they not recognize noted Harvard Professor and nationally recognized scholar Henry Louis Gates, but that they were dumb enough to think a robber would roll up in the middle of the day in a frickin' taxi to burglarize someone's home!

From all the articles and news stories I've read and seen, it seems Gates has a legitimate gripe. The officer entered the house without permission (which is legal with just cause, but whether he had cause to enter is still unclear), the officer refused to provide Gates with his name and badge number when asked (which is against regulations), and the officer arrested Gates for following him onto the porch and yelling/shouting/talking loudly to him. Last I checked, we had to right to go wherever we chose on our own property, and that it is not against the law to shout/yell at an officer of the law as long as you're not impeding their duties, which the officer had completed at that point.

I suspect that race had a role to play in that the officer probably would have been more lenient had the "suspect" been white, and certainly the officer being white led Gates to assume race had a role in his treatment. Cambridge, and Harvard campus specifically, has had a history of racial profiling by the police despite the continued objections of students and professors. Apparently the school itself commissioned a committee to study race relations last year. I'm glad President Obama had the balls to comment on the issue because I'm certainly tired of hearing his comments on how poorly black men are doing at being fathers to their kids. We have enough Limbaughs and Buchanans to speak on that.

I could very well be wrong on this, but I don't feel Gates was obliged to come out of his home without the officer providing a good reason. It's kind of how if you are being pulled over by the police and you don't feel safe stopping in a certain area, or you're unsure if it's a real officer, you can continued on to a more open, populated area. The cops may get pissed, but you won't be prosecuted if you stop promptly and then follow the officer's directions. Now, if Gates was in his house and the officer notified him of the call, and asked to see Gates' ID, Gates has to provide it, but I don't see any reason why he should have to step out of the house unless the officer couldn't see his face or the officer felt endangered for some reason.

Gates had a point to make, that he wasn't going to perform a single act he didn't feel he was legally obligated to do because he didn't believe the police were justified in investigating him.

The officer had a point to make, too, that the unknown black guy he's investigating was going to be arrested if he didn't kowtow to what the officer had wanted.

Neither of these two dynamics have ANYTHING to do with racial profiling, because the police officer was responding to a specific call about a break-in at the Gates residence. Racial profiling is about using race to determine where police resources will be used.

Can't blame a guy for being a little apprehensive when he says, "How can I help you?" and the first response is "Would you step outside onto the porch."

Thats pretty standard for a cop though. Everytime they come to my house that is the first thing they say.

Which is what officers basically always say, in any situation where they don't know what's going on. They want people outside the house where they can keep an eye on them and prevent any problems.

Did Gates have a right to refuse? Yeah, I don't think the cop had probable cause to arrest him. Was it smart if he didn't want to get arrested? No, because cops tend to be bullies who are more concerned with people following orders and feeling personally safe than they are with ensuring the niceties of fourth amendment protocols.

From everything I've read, the police officer definitely had probable cause to investigate and ask Gates to step outside. That's typical police procedure in most jurisdictions. Gates does have a right to refuse entry without a search warrant, but the police officer does have the authority to question the owner of a home when receiving a call about a break in. Whether he had the justification to arrest for disorderly conduct is another issue entire.

Yes he was. He had gotten inside by the time the cops arrived and they requested proof that he lived there. I can understand being upset by that, as many (white) people would have gotten benefit of the doubt and the cops would be on their way. That said, Gates, Jr. escalated the situation by not only refusing to provide such information, but demanding to get the cops' badge numbers and shouting obscenities. All sides acted inappropriately, but the fact remains that a woman - a supposed neighbor of Gates - immediately jumped to conclusions and assumed a break in was happening, which no one in their right mind should suspect (he's an older man, dressed in scholarly attire, attempting to jimmy a front door.) That aspect screams of racism.

Legal perspective from Andrew Sullivan's blog:

I bolded the part I found especially relevant.

The "He wasn't in his home" was to when he was arrested. He was outside his home at that point, which qualified it as disorderly conduct.

As to the woman? Well, here's something to consider that no one has brought up. His door was broken and by his own words it appeared as if someone may have tried to break in while he was away... what if she called the police about THAT break in also? I'd be curious to know if there was any previous reports of an attempted break in while he was away.

Also, who the fuck breaks in their front door when they have a perfectly good entrance around the back and they can apparently just call Harvard to fix it???

I've read that article and others, and it seems to me that instead of first notifying Gates (while Gates was in his home) that there was a call, and/or asking if Gates was alright, the first thing the officer did was to assume that Gates was a suspect and possibly could not have been the proper owner of the home.

For Gates, having no idea that there was even a call placed, the fact that an officer rolls up to your front door and the first thing they say is for you to step out of your house, that must have already sounded like he was being treated like a criminal. There didn't seem to be anything on the scene that would have made the officer feel endangered, so why would he have been so quick to remove Gates from the house? He could have questioned him just as easily through the open door.

If I were in Gates' situation, I don't think I would have left the house either without some explanation as to what the issue was and why the officer needed me outside of the house. And neither of those demands should be consider disorderly conduct.

Probable cause to detain and investigate (which can include handcuffs), is not the same thing as probable cause to arrest. Gates was arrested. Not briefly detained so that an investigation could take place.

Gates claims he went around to the kitchen porch, entered through there, and unlocked/unhinged the front door from inside. The door still wouldn't budge, possibly due to previous tampering, and that the taxi driver had to bust it open physically. So, he gained entrance with a key and went through the house to the front. I wouldn't want to feel like I could get in trouble with the law working on a jammed door in my own house. The officer should have considered that maybe Gates was the owner and instead of coming at him with an attitude, asked him politely for ID and confirmation before bossing him around.

Racial profiling? No.

A blatant miscarriage of justice? No.

A series of events that’s far more likely to occur if you’re black? Yes.