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An AVATAR Crew Member Can't Take Criticism - Page 4

post #151 of 421
7/27/09 at 1:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbott & Prospero View Post
Why didn't you tell us that you were working on Avatar, eenin?
Props for making the joke I couldn't allow myself to tell.
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post #152 of 421
7/27/09 at 1:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludwig View Post
You had a chance to absolutely wow people in San Diego, you fucked it up, people noticed it.
I think 'fucked it up' might be a little harsh. It may not have lived up to the ridiculous hype, but I haven't read one negative review of the footage screened at Comic Con. Overall impressions seemed positive, though people's expectations are in a more realistic place now. That might actually work in the movie's favour...
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post #153 of 421
7/27/09 at 1:58am
My thoughts exactly. Bringing people back down to earth could help them. Unfortunately, they'll probably overreact and go into damage control now, and start singing hosannas to it all over again.
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post #154 of 421
7/27/09 at 2:01am
Quote:
I think 'fucked it up' might be a little harsh. It may not have lived up to the ridiculous hype, but I haven't read one negative review of the footage screened at Comic Con. Overall impressions seemed positive, though people's expectations are in a more realistic place now. That might actually work in the movie's favour...
You should still expect to be mighty impressed, but maybe in a different way. Facial animations for example. Devin said as much with his Watchmen comment.
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post #155 of 421
7/27/09 at 4:43am
The letter writer suffers from the worst kind of grammar failing, that of thinking that quotation marks bestow emphasis.

I think Knowles does, too - which would explain how he fucked up comprehending Devin's tweet.
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post #156 of 421
7/27/09 at 4:45am
If they could air quote in an article they would, but you have to work with what you have.
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post #157 of 421
7/27/09 at 4:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Kimbell View Post
The letter writer suffers from the worst kind of grammar failing, that of thinking that quotation marks bestow emphasis.

I think Knowles does, too - which would explain how he fucked up comprehending Devin's tweet.
I'd say that that being the reason Knowles misrepresented Devs tweet like he did is being generous at best James.
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post #158 of 421
7/27/09 at 4:55am
What's better? Overhype or utter apathy? Cameron's grandstanding has kept this from being perceived as his Tin Tin, a film that has big names attached but that you don't give a damn about because you know nothing about it. At least people are mentioning Avatar... "Ehhhhh" is all people have to say about Tin Tin.

The fact that these people are making the movies in the first place should get people excited. But it doesn't. It may come back to bite him, but Cameron's created an aura around his project that Jackson/Spielberg have not been able to replicate even a little bit.
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post #159 of 421
7/27/09 at 5:00am
It is bizarre that absolutely zip of this huge hype discussion means anything to the average dude. If Transformers 2 can make as much money as it did, criticism, internet hype issues, none of it is going to matter. I think Transformers proved that ultimately, none of this background stuff really matters.
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post #160 of 421
7/27/09 at 5:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Peace View Post
What's better? Overhype or utter apathy? Cameron's grandstanding has kept this from being perceived as his Tin Tin, a film that has big names attached but that you don't give a damn about because you know nothing about it. At least people are mentioning Avatar... "Ehhhhh" is all people have to say about Tin Tin.

The fact that these people are making the movies in the first place should get people excited. But it doesn't. It may come back to bite him, but Cameron's created an aura around his project that Jackson/Spielberg have not been able to replicate even a little bit.
Let me agree with Dom for a second.

Let's just take a moment here for a reality check to remind ourselves that when it comes to the mainstream viewing public - you know, those people who actually make a film a hit or a bomb rather than ourselves - neither film is on anyones radar in the slightest.
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post #161 of 421
7/27/09 at 5:28am
It won't be until the trailers start coming out and the usual push commences, just like clock work. I really do believe at this point that criticism really doesn't make any significant difference, if it ever did.

What I do believe is that James Cameron has a pretty good track record when it comes to my tastes. People are constantly saying they're let down that their eyeballs aren't fucked or whatever, but that's not what deeply interested me about the project, so there's absolutely no sadness here.

I hadn't seen all the hyperbole quotes, I just read the incredibly cool story and got immersed in an exciting science fiction world. It's the little details of Pandora's Eco system, the beauty of a bio luminescent alien planet tickling my inner child's sense of wonder. All of which Devin has confirmed to be looking pretty awesome, so I'm more excited than I have ever been before at this point, and I think if the "Avatards" or the Chud geeks are going to be excited for Avatar, those should have been the reasons from the very start.
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post #162 of 421
7/27/09 at 6:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domingo View Post
I hadn't seen all the hyperbole quotes, I just read the incredibly cool story and got immersed in an exciting science fiction world. It's the little details of Pandora's Eco system, the beauty of a bio luminescent alien planet tickling my inner child's sense of wonder. All of which Devin has confirmed to be looking pretty awesome, so I'm more excited than I have ever been before at this point, and I think if the "Avatards" or the Chud geeks are going to be excited for Avatar, those should have been the reasons from the very start.
You'll excuse me if I find those reasons to be excited about the film completely underwhelming. I couldn't possibly care less about some fictional planet's fictional ecosystem or the alleged beauty of its bioluminescence. That's like saying I should be fascinated by the Star Wars prequels because of the beauty of the Wookie planet.
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post #163 of 421
7/27/09 at 6:27am
That's an expected reaction from my feeble attempts to justify what it is I'm looking forward to, but Star Wars wasn't about the environment around you, and how we interact with it. Avatar is, which takes some of the wind out of your point. It's Cameron's storytelling that has me completely sold, so it's either track down the scriptment and get a sense for what I'm rambling about, or wait for the film to hit and see for yourself. Frankly I hope most people choose the latter.
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post #164 of 421
7/27/09 at 6:42am
Anyone still believing that guy has ANYTHING to do with the production after that second letter is on crack.
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post #165 of 421
7/27/09 at 6:55am
Mental gymnastics.
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post #166 of 421
7/27/09 at 7:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Peace View Post
What's better? Overhype or utter apathy? Cameron's grandstanding has kept this from being perceived as his Tin Tin, a film that has big names attached but that you don't give a damn about because you know nothing about it. At least people are mentioning Avatar... "Ehhhhh" is all people have to say about Tin Tin.

The fact that these people are making the movies in the first place should get people excited. But it doesn't. It may come back to bite him, but Cameron's created an aura around his project that Jackson/Spielberg have not been able to replicate even a little bit.
Ok, I realise this is a little off-topic, but you can't really compare Avatar to Tintin, that already has had a fanbase for decades and is loved worldwide. I understand that Tintin isn't a great big name in the US, but to my understanding it's a big name over here in Europe. I know I grew up reading those comics and I'm looking forward to Tintin a lot.

I know it'll be a hard sell in the US, but comparing Tintin to Avatar just doesn't make any sense to me. They're very different movies. I don't think anyone is trying to change the world with Tintin at all.
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post #167 of 421
7/27/09 at 8:00am
I don't know, didn't Avatar sort of have to come out of this as the big buzz of the con? Having people just "like" it while they're going nuts over District 9 and Iron Man 2 doesn't seem like a good outcome.
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post #168 of 421
7/27/09 at 8:20am
It wont matter one bit in the end. Iron Man is a beloved brand so of course it will come out as the big winner of a comic con.

Unless they release an underwhelming trailer Avatar will do just fine. Remember, Joe Public don't have the ridiculous expectations so he might be more than overwhelmed by what he'll see in the eventual trailer.
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post #169 of 421
7/27/09 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion View Post
. That said, rants like that one definitely leave a bad taste in my mouth and I won't be able to think of Avatar without thinking of weak-minded people's need to make everything their messiah.
CHUD and Watchmen, anyone ?
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post #170 of 421
7/27/09 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitches Leave View Post
Unless they release an underwhelming trailer Avatar will do just fine.
"Just fine" for this film, with everything involved in its build-up, would be a disaster.
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post #171 of 421
7/27/09 at 8:49am
I meant just fine relative to its costs. It will probably do at least "War of the Worlds" numbers theatrically, and then make a huge amount on BD and DVD. Nothing overwhelming but just fine.
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post #172 of 421
7/27/09 at 8:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitches Leave View Post
I meant just fine relative to its costs. It will probably do at least "War of the Worlds" numbers theatrically
Yeah, that would be a disaster.
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post #173 of 421
7/27/09 at 8:53am
I just don't know how somebody can be super excited about the "environment" from a planet you have never her anything about. Maybe if it was something unique that you've read from a novel or graphic novel ...
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post #174 of 421
7/27/09 at 9:04am
I think Devin has (rather unfairly) become the default hater of every big blockbuster in a lot of people's eyes. They see a piece by him scan for the negatives and ignore the rest.

As for this guy, if he absolutely had to say something because he felt his baby was being laughed at, he would have been a lot better to simply send and email saying :-

"Wait till you see the finished film until you make up your mind."
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post #175 of 421
7/27/09 at 9:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trench View Post
IO9 has a piece about the Avatar hype backlash. It pretty much confirms that Devin's in no way unique in his opinion.
...and that makes him right ? and Pine Power, you really show how well chewers take criticism ... what are you, 13 ?
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post #176 of 421
7/27/09 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domingo View Post
It is bizarre that absolutely zip of this huge hype discussion means anything to the average dude. If Transformers 2 can make as much money as it did, criticism, internet hype issues, none of it is going to matter. I think Transformers proved that ultimately, none of this background stuff really matters.
If they don't get the message of "omg this movie will change every goddamn thing ever," then yes, none of this stuff will matter to general audiences, whose reaction will then be on par with all the other sci-fi blockbusters not based on an existing property. And that's a subgenre that average audiences don't give much of a crap about.
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post #177 of 421
7/27/09 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
If they don't get the message of "omg this movie will change every goddamn thing ever," then yes, none of this stuff will matter to general audiences, whose reaction will then be on par with all the other sci-fi blockbusters not based on an existing property. And that's a subgenre that average audiences don't give much of a crap about.
Depends on how they sell this baby to the general audiences.

If they go the standard route we'll have a rumbling bass accompanied by the the most hoarse of the voice guys proclaiming

"From the most successful filmmaker of all time comes a science fiction epic 10 years in the making that will change everything... Avatar... A James Cameron film" Or some shit like that. And Joe Public goes nuts.

And Abbott, WotW numbers wont be a catastrophe when you look at the bigger picture. They will make a lot of the costs back from selling the technologies and systems etc. they used on the production just like they sold the sets from Titanic etc. Money that is never included in the profits. This baby will make money no matter how expensive it was.

Of course if we have total failure and a 20 million opening weekend, I'll retract that opinion.
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post #178 of 421
7/27/09 at 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitches Leave View Post
Depends on how they sell this baby to the general audiences.

If they go the standard route we'll have a rumbling bass accompanied by the the most hoarse of the voice guys proclaiming

"From the most successful filmmaker of all time comes a science fiction epic 10 years in the making that will change everything... Avatar... A James Cameron film" Or some shit like that. And Joe Public goes nuts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
If they don't get the message of "omg this movie will change every goddamn thing ever," then yes, none of this stuff will matter to general audiences, whose reaction will then be on par with all the other sci-fi blockbusters not based on an existing property. And that's a subgenre that average audiences don't give much of a crap about.
Echo in here.
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post #179 of 421
7/27/09 at 10:24am
So HOW MUCH are seats per ADULT-ASS gonna cost for this puppy?
They gonna charge extra for the glasses?
How many cinemas are CAPABLE of showing this (in 'Cameron-o-Vision')?
Just curious...
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post #180 of 421
7/27/09 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
Echo in here.
Gotcha'
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post #181 of 421
7/27/09 at 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
I don't know, didn't Avatar sort of have to come out of this as the big buzz of the con? Having people just "like" it while they're going nuts over District 9 and Iron Man 2 doesn't seem like a good outcome.
Not that anyone asked, but since I saw most of the panels (except for Sunday), my impression being in the room wasn't that people just "liked" Avatar. They went pretty crazy in the room at the time. I thought Iron Man 2 was awesome, but it was essentially exactly what you'd expect. The cool thing about the District 9 footage was that it turns out the story is completely different than what was in the teaser, and it looked incredibly cool. The biggest surprises, for me, were Solomon Kane and Kick Ass, neither of which I knew much about. Robert Downey Jr was hands down the most entertaining guest both for Sherlock and Iron Man. Denzel for Book of Eli was the most dazzling star. Miyazaki made me weakest in the knees. But for me, Avatar was the best footage by a mile.
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post #182 of 421
7/27/09 at 11:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post
. The biggest surprises, for me, were Solomon Kane and Kick Ass, neither of which I knew much about.
So did they show Kick-Ass footage? if so, how did it look?
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post #183 of 421
7/27/09 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick View Post
So did they show Kick-Ass footage? if so, how did it look?
It was awesome, so fun. Like Kill Bill with a kid.
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post #184 of 421
7/27/09 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domingo View Post
That's an expected reaction from my feeble attempts to justify what it is I'm looking forward to, but Star Wars wasn't about the environment around you, and how we interact with it. Avatar is, which takes some of the wind out of your point. It's Cameron's storytelling that has me completely sold, so it's either track down the scriptment and get a sense for what I'm rambling about, or wait for the film to hit and see for yourself. Frankly I hope most people choose the latter.
Sorry, Domingo, how you interact with the surroundings is what I want from a video game not what I want to WATCH someone do in a movie.

The scriptment is awful. It has sold me not one iota on this film being any better than his other works.

As for the Devin hate, I get it. He's so very easy to hate because he's a smug condescending asshole. Particularly when he's right.
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post #185 of 421
7/27/09 at 1:37pm
These kinda conversations make me long for the days before I was an internet-scourer, when I had to wait every month for my glimpses in Starlog or Cinescape. These hype wars are taking their toll on this film-fan.
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post #186 of 421
7/27/09 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post
These kinda conversations make me long for the days before I was an internet-scourer, when I had to wait every month for my glimpses in Starlog or Cinescape. These hype wars are taking their toll on this film-fan.
I like you, Darkmite, but you do realize this problem is perfectly correctable with no help from anyone else, right?
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post #187 of 421
7/27/09 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan S~ View Post
I like you, Darkmite, but you do realize this problem is perfectly correctable with no help from anyone else, right?
Yeah, but I'm helpless to resist.

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post #188 of 421
7/27/09 at 3:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
I just don't know how somebody can be super excited about the "environment" from a planet you have never her anything about. Maybe if it was something unique that you've read from a novel or graphic novel ...
People who like fantasy novels with maps in the front* and people who like sci-fi novels with detailed world-building** get excited about these kind of things. Imagine you're, I don't know, a huge J.K. Rowling fan, and you hear she's working on a new series set in an entirely different reality from the "Potterverse". You might get excited thinking about what kind of reality she's constructing more than any possible story elements.

To belabor the analogy and play devil's advocate, Cameron is like a known and loved sci-fi author who's teased a new epic trilogy of novels in a new universe. For fans of previous works, the new world he's creating is as exciting to speculate about as the story and characters.

For me, I'm as big of a science and technology cheerleader as I am a film fan, so I find all of the technical stuff he's doing utterly fascinating. In fact, I imagine any "making of" documentary on Avatar has a very good chance to end up being way more interesting to me than the film itself.

*I like some of these.
**These too. I know.
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post #189 of 421
7/27/09 at 3:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Tom View Post
...you can't really compare Avatar to Tintin, that already has had a fanbase for decades and is loved worldwide. I understand that Tintin isn't a great big name in the US, but to my understanding it's a big name over here in Europe. I know I grew up reading those comics and I'm looking forward to Tintin a lot.
Not to go off topic even further (oh, why not? Does anyone really wanna keep on about this "crew member?") but this Potter-esque fan base seems to be a rumor more than anything else. Sure, I'm an ig'nant American in this regard but even you, who are a fan and live in the area where it should be a big deal seem to be assuming that it's a sensation ("to my understanding..."). The property is higher profile there but that hasn't translated to greater enthusiasm.

As far as "casual" movie fans go... as someone recently said: "this is CHUD. Who gives a fuck about casual movie fans?" The mainstream doesn't give half a shit about any of this but when do they ever?
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post #190 of 421
7/27/09 at 3:49pm
And I'll derail a little further, but can't you compare the release of Tintin with a new Pixar movie? When Pixar releases a trailer for a new movie they rely heavily on their own brand as a successful company. Their movies are always original with no established fanbase.

When Spielberg and Jackson release the trailer for Tintin it will be very similar. People will see a good looking animated film backed by two of the most successful names in film.
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post #191 of 421
7/27/09 at 3:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post
Just like not enough theaters will be equipped with 3D for everyone to see the movie the way Cameron intends.

This thing has hubris written all over it.

I really think in the back of his mind Cameron wants to market this like one of the "road show" attractions back in the 50's and 60's "Ben Hur","Lawrence of Arabia" 'THe Sound Of Music" etc...a film opens in one or two theaters at jacked up prices, plays for months, and evetually goes into general release at "popular prices".
But I think there is no fucking way that would work today.Film distributioin is simply not set up to handle that.
I have been a defender of Cameron ..I though that Titanic was a pretty good movie...not a great film and it had no business winning the Oscar ..but not as bad as the nerds would have it...some of the hatred of Titanic was so over the top that it was like a SNL skit on rabid geeks...but his constant bragging and over the top statements about "Avatar" have really turned me off.
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post #192 of 421
7/27/09 at 3:56pm
And I am looking forward to Jackson's film of "The Lovely Bones" which opens at roughly the same time a lot more then Avatar.
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post #193 of 421
7/27/09 at 3:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Peace View Post
What's better? Overhype or utter apathy? Cameron's grandstanding has kept this from being perceived as his Tin Tin, a film that has big names attached but that you don't give a damn about because you know nothing about it. At least people are mentioning Avatar... "Ehhhhh" is all people have to say about Tin Tin.

The fact that these people are making the movies in the first place should get people excited. But it doesn't. It may come back to bite him, but Cameron's created an aura around his project that Jackson/Spielberg have not been able to replicate even a little bit.

But Cameron's grandstadning has reached the point where it is beginning to turn people off. You have to know when enough is enough when it comes to hype, and Cameron does not.
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post #194 of 421
7/27/09 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitches Leave View Post

And Abbott, WotW numbers wont be a catastrophe when you look at the bigger picture. They will make a lot of the costs back from selling the technologies and systems etc. they used on the production just like they sold the sets from Titanic etc. Money that is never included in the profits. This baby will make money no matter how expensive it was.

Of course if we have total failure and a 20 million opening weekend, I'll retract that opinion.
War of the Worlds box office:

Domestic: $234,280,354
+ Foreign: $357,465,186


If the gigantic sci-fi/adventure film from the director of Aliens and T2, also his first film since Titantic mind you, can't hit $300 million domestic it will be a disaster. We'll probably never know the exact budget of this monster. Breaking even, or simply being profitable through the sales of tech developed for the film, won't be seen as anything but a disappointment. They're selling this as a phenomenon to be, a revolutionary experience, because it absolutely must be to be a success. Monetarily speaking, that is. I'm not talking about the quality of the actual film. Which is the only thing that really matters to me since it ain't my money on the line.
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post #195 of 421
7/27/09 at 4:21pm
Nobody is going bankrupt over this movie that is all I'm saying. Whether it will be seen as a disappointment? Who cares.
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post #196 of 421
7/27/09 at 4:23pm
Nobody's bankrolling this movie in hopes of making a killing on selling the technology either.
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post #197 of 421
7/27/09 at 4:23pm
Getting bent out of shape about what Devin thinks is Avatarded. He bitched about THE DARK KNIGHT for years, and as one who was really excited for the film I can say that all of his kvetching did not sully my experience with it one bit. Hell, he made it more fun because of the spirited discussion his opinions raised.

I'm not so excited about AVATAR, but if I was I certainly wouldn't be getting upset over Devin's playful jabs. It will come out and you will like it, argue about it, whatever.

Basically, who gives a shit?
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post #198 of 421
7/27/09 at 4:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitches Leave View Post
Nobody is going bankrupt over this movie that is all I'm saying. Whether it will be seen as a disappointment? Who cares.

The old man thought it was pretty important, Dick.
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post #199 of 421
7/27/09 at 5:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbott & Prospero View Post
The old man thought it was pretty important, Dick.
And I'm number two around here. Pretty simple math, huh, Bob? You just... fucked with the wrong guy!
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post #200 of 421
7/27/09 at 5:20pm
You're fired!
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