Brad Pitt Just Got More Awesome - Page 4

I wasn't adressing you personally with the self-righteous thing, it's just something I see inevitably pop up in these discussions.

Thing is: I don't think most people on this thread would deny that the problem of racism has been traditionally a larger issue in the South, and that such a legacy won't disappear over a few short decades.

(It is, however, interesting how Southern racism has traditionally served as a scapegoat for the North, its existence allowing northern states to downplay and/or ignore their own gentile racism - "of course we don't have anything against coloured people, this isn't the South!")

But what I was trying to get at is this: the people I have discussions with identify "America" as the symbol of the bigotry and fundamentalism I listed. Living in the US, you naturally know that this is not an accurate portrayal of the entire country, and so you say it's the Deep South. Obviously, even within these states, there'll be more and less bigoted regions, and they probably have their own prejudices against each other, too. But at the end of the day, what exactly is the point in dismissing an entire state (country, city, etc.) just because there are probably more bigots living there than in another region? What does it acheive, apart from alienating the people from that area that actually do NOT surscribe to said bigotry and that you've just accused of same? It's a useless gesture.

And the point is, when you're attacking a region, you attack an entire culture - a culture that may include bigotry, but which tons of people who aren't bigots have grown up in, and love. In the end, conflating that culture with bigotry lends more power to...the bigots.

(This is why much of western criticism against the Islamic world strikes me as so ineffectual and useless, btw, but that's a different kettle of fish.)

I understand if you don’t want to respond, but you laid into kate pretty good earlier in the thread, which prompted me to respond. But seriously, I asked like 3 questions. I'm not trolling, so I don't understand why you would think it would do no good to engage me.

I just don’t see any other reason for the voting irregularities other than people not being comfortable with a black candidate.

And please, it's not message board drama, princess kate brought up something that I had just assumed was common knowledge, that the deep south has "issues" with race, and when you started talking with her I felt the need to share. That’s it.

I don't know why Alabama voted the way it did. Did ANYONE vote for Obama in Alabama? Yes. Did any white people vote for him in Alabama? Yes. Is everyone a racist bigot in the South? No. Is there a higher concentration of vocally racist bigots in the South? Yeah. But you seem to want to label everyone in a section of the country as the same. That's stupid. And offensive.

Come on dude, she didn't just do that: first mention of Alabama didn't involve race, and when Kelly told her to lay off she said:

This isn't actually about tackling issues, it's just "ner ner ner my state is better than yours".

No, Kate made a blanket statement that all people in the South are racists. The discussion ended with that singularly ignorant remark. Defending her ignorance does no one any good.
Edit: see the above response.

Your right, that is stupid and offensive and I would be a hypocrite if I said otherwise. It was not my intent to label every southerner as a racist. So apologies if I offended anyone, I think I probably came on a little to strong.

And I didn't read that particular quote by Kate, my bad, I should have read the thread over more carefully. I got a little hot becuase I thought people were downplaying the turbulent race relations in the deep south, past and present.

Having lived here all my life, I would and do know better than to do that, just as countless other Southerners. Downplaying fact is pointless and stupid. But along with some of the worst instances of racism, the South has been home to some of the most moving and profound instances of reconciliation, progress, and understanding. Sometimes non-Southerners say things that sort of rip the bandage off, so to speak.

I wish I could account for anyone who didn't vote for Obama, but I can't. Given my field of study, I could site countless studies on incumbency advantage, partisanship, the decline of partisanship, the relationship between vote choice and education or political socialization. Hell, there is even a model that came out a few years ago called social identity theory that explained voting behavior as an attempt to insert oneself into peer groups based on social and material ambition. But even with all that data, we all know there are those who didn't vote for Obama because he's black. Conversely, a lot of white people voted for McCain (rather than against Obama) because they were sold on his Great American Veteran story.

I'm not crazy living in a "red" state any more than I enjoy the reduction of political behavior to a simplistic two-color shorthand.

But don't take it from me or my journal articles - I am Southern and therefore justifiably offended when someone spews hatred at my home without ever having any experience here. I have never in my life singled out a state or portion of the country to hate so viciously as people do with the South. My feelings on the Midwest? It's flat. The North? It's cold. California? They're broke.

Talk instead to someone like my roommate. He's mixed-race, gay, and prefers the South far and away above his previous homes (San Francisco and New Hampshire).

Except for the heat. It's like standing under a freakin' hair dryer down here.

I like this guy.

I appreciate the response. Next time I will make sure to read every post and not just skim the pages. I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought you were a racist, or that all southerners are racist. Sorry about that Kelly.

This is what I get for siding with Princess Kate in an argument I guess.

Right back at ya pete!

Hey, no harm no foul. =) Kate shoots her mouth off with the unthinking aplomb of youth. It happens.

I will offer this though: 2 books on voting behavior. The American Voter (1960) - yes, it's obviously incredibly dated, and people have built entire careers on trying to disprove the model in this book. Essentially they say that partisanship is the primary cue for voting, and that party id is more or less determined before birth. Crazy, I know, but they haven't really been shot down yet. The only thing that's really eroding the model now is the decline of partisanship altogether.

The second (and more interesting) is Voice and Equality (1992). This looks at how and why people vote the way they do, and how social and economic inequity = a distorted representative scheme. Kinda common sense really, but they have the stats to prove it (if you believe in stats, which I do sometimes).

But like I said, even will all this gobbledygook, some people are still going to go into the ballot box and mark "I'm an ignorant asshat in a way that no reasonable person can explain." I've seen it happen. It's scary.