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The President's Address to a joint session of Congress 9/9/09 - Page 3

post #101 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
No there are not. Please look it up. 45-47 million uninsured is a manufactured propaganda number.
There’s no way you read past my first sentence.
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post #102 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
Approximate estimates are that

10 million are illegal immigrants or foreign nationals.
Does "foreign nationals" count people with green cards?
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post #103 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:08pm
Jesus, the Republican response may turn out to be another Jindal. Stop dipping into Louisiana, GOP! The guy is stilted, formal, and nervous.
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post #104 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:08pm
ARRGGHHHH!!!!

Fuck you WhiteHouse.gov for not carrying the rebuttal!
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post #105 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
I am a small business owner who does support a family and I would not be considered rich by any standards. I am not playing with fire in my view. I am 33 years old and relatively healthy. In a few years I will purchase some insurance when it makes more sense. Right now I prefer to put money away for a rainy day.
No offense, but you are playing with fire. All it takes is one asshole running into the back of your car while on the way to work, or even just a simple accident while doing yard work, and you can potentially be screwed. Not saying it to scare you, I have a good friend who was quite healthy but got into an accident that has had her in physical therapy and operations for years.
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post #106 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:08pm
Obama just said the government plan won't replace your existing coverage, and the Republican response comes along and says it will.
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post #107 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:08pm
You're only missing unintentional comedy. Who the hell is this guy?
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post #108 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
You're only missing unintentional comedy. Who the hell is this guy?
Seriously, seems like he's about to cry or throw up.
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post #109 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:10pm
Jesus, can't the GOP rustle up someone who can speak?!

EDITED TO ADD" God he's saying Obama is taking away people's Freedom! I wish he'd ended his speech by screaming "FRREEEEEDOOOM!"
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post #110 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post
No offense, but you are playing with fire. All it takes is one asshole running into the back of your car while on the way to work, or even just a simple accident while doing yard work, and you can potentially be screwed. Not saying it to scare you, I have a good friend who was quite healthy but got into an accident that has had her in physical therapy and operations for years.
Eh, what he’s doing makes sense, economically, and is why mandates are necessary if the desire is to have a more efficient health insurance system.
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post #111 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:12pm
GREAT SPEECH. But that Obama's greatest strength, i sure as hell it wasn't all just smoke and mirrors.
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post #112 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:12pm
Another Republican's career bites the dust on a national level. I obviously have no love for the GOP but that makes me feel sorry for them. Michael Fin' Steel would've been preferable.
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post #113 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
So you don't pay insurance for your family? Do you have kids?

Also, you're 33, so you don't think you can be struck by a serious illness, or injured in a serious accident.

Your choice, but you are playing with fire to be quite honest.
I do have kids. I am a physician, a chiropractor. I take care of the vast majority of my health care needs. When I cannot I negotiate lower cash prices with the physicians I do need to utilize.

I do think I can be struck with a serious illness, but I do things to mitigate that, prevention measures. Preventive measures that would lower health care costs for the nation if implemented rather than forced coverage.

If I am injured in a serious accident then I have auto insurance, I can utilize the business insurance of the place where I am injured or I can utilize my disability insurance.

THAT IS ALL?!?!?! You have got to be shitting me!?!??! That was the Republican rebuttal!?!?!?! Holy fuck. The GOP deserves to get this ramrodded through right past them.
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post #114 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Girma View Post
Eh, what he’s doing makes sense, economically, and is why mandates are necessary if the desire is to have a more efficient health insurance system.
It makes sense only if he and his family don't get into some hardship. It's a gamble.

And I hope he's not shopping around for operations and Annual Exams. I hear that $5 appendix operation is not all it's cracked up to be!
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post #115 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:15pm
So what are the odds that tomorrow, we'll just be getting the same old arguments from the right?
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post #116 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:15pm
Well he can always go to India for the occasional brain surgery!
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post #117 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
ARRGGHHHH!!!!

Fuck you WhiteHouse.gov for not carrying the rebuttal!
You don't have TV dude?

nice rebuttall GOP, turns out the guys been sued 3 times for malpractice.
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post #118 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Girma View Post
I don’t think you read past my first sentence.
I did and felt that you would still be arriving at around 35+ million by only discounting people like myself.

And on to economic sense, MSA/HSA health insurance plans would reduce costs by allowing insured people to do exactly what I do now out of pocket and provide for catastrophic needs. I had one several years back and would if it weren't economically unfeasible when I opened my office. $400 a month for a family of four with a $5000 deductible? Great, if I didn't need that $400 for other things right now. When I can free up that much I will again have an MSA plan.

That is where the GOP should begin hanging their hats amongst many other reforms.

And to Rourkefan, are you eligible for Medicaid in your state? Regardless if you are or not I am in favor of finding some way to insure people who have pre-existing conditions. I am not certain just mandating it is a good idea though as the risk pool changes and premiums will have to go up. But it still needs to get done.
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post #119 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:20pm
The "it's a lie!" asshole is Joe Wilson of... ::drum roll:: South Carolina. Yep.
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post #120 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:21pm
Rep Dave Camp but in an articulate if mis-represented rebuttal on NPR just now. Why in fuck didn't he deliver the official rebuttal?
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post #121 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by History Buff View Post
You don't have TV dude?

nice rebuttall GOP, turns out the guys been sued 3 times for malpractice.
No, cable is an expense I forgo because of Netflix and Hulu and most networks offering their shows the day after airing.

And being sued for malpractice is a part of doing business, not necessarily an issue of the doctor being incompetent. This is why tort reform is necessary, to limit lottery lawsuits.

As Obama said, your doctor practices defensive medicine everyday. I do. If the patient gives off a vibe that the tiniest thing that upsets them could lead them to sue you practice differently.
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post #122 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:24pm
I am too rich to get medicaid. Actually my parents who I live with are too rich for it. I am 27 and broke as hell, but Medicaid considers the household wealth into who gets covered. I could get medicaid if I lied to the government and said I lived in an apartment, but I believe in being honest.

but have to much needs due to prexisting condition some of which are my fault (Obsesity-related problem like High Blood Pressure) others which are not (mental issues).
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post #123 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:26pm
If all the bill does is end the "pre-existing condition" problem, that alone will be a huge, HUGE deal. And it's something everyone can get behind who isn't an utter psychopath.
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post #124 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Peace View Post
The "it's a lie!" asshole is Joe Wilson of... ::drum roll:: South Carolina. Yep.
Aww, Christ.

Not my district!!!!

Wilson is a huge immigration reform guy and while it was nice to hear it said it was utterly disrespectful and unfortunately in this state I doubt he will pay a political price. In fact he may have just replaced Sanford as the GOP go to guy in 2012 with that line.
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post #125 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:29pm
Overall, great speech. I don't think some Republicans were quite ready for such a direct attack on their lies and misinformation. Some of them looked downright mortified when Obama flat out called the "Death Panel" rumor a lie. Also, it looked like Boehner was about to cry when Obama called out the spending on Iraq and Afghanistan as being more expensive then health care reform.
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post #126 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Peace View Post
If all the bill does is end the "pre-existing condition" problem, that alone will be a huge, HUGE deal. And it's something everyone can get behind who isn't an utter psychopath.
That is all I really need. but I would like costs to come down when I do get insured
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post #127 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:30pm
Agreed. It really seems the GOP is spitting in the wind. My very Republican in laws are in support of the bill (my mother in law has MS).
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post #128 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
Aww, Christ.

Not my district!!!!

Wilson is a huge immigration reform guy and while it was nice to hear it said it was utterly disrespectful and unfortunately in this state I doubt he will pay a political price. In fact he may have just replaced Sanford as the GOP go to guy in 2012 with that line.
That's about what I thought. Guy may have simultaneously painted himself as both a piece of shit and the next Sarah Palin. Not to be redundant.
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post #129 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:34pm
Quote:
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi wasn't immediately aware who yelled "you lie," but she told FOX News that she would not move to sanction anyone for it.
I hope this changes once she finds out is was a Republican. Just because I don't care for her very much.
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post #130 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
I hope this changes once she finds out is was a Republican. Just because I don't care for her very much.
I'm guessing she already had a sneaking suspicion which side of the aisle it came from.
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post #131 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
I hope this changes once she finds out is was a Republican. Just because I don't care for her very much.
She should sanction this asshole for being dis-respectful to the President of the United States.

Really, you know the GOP would have gone completely apeshit if a Democratic Congressman had screamed "You Lie!" at George W Bush. Hell the Secret Service would probably have him on the ground inside a few seconds!

I know Obama is really pushing for civility and openness, but part of civility is clearly defining what is appropriate and non-appropriate debate. I really fear the consequences of letting these people run amok
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post #132 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:41pm
He clearly said "to blave"! and as we all know, to blave means to bluff!
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post #133 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:42pm
And I think the guy did a huge disservice to his party by doing that. It paints Republicans as the party of people who shout out impulsive epithets at events that should be more dignified. You shouldn't try to turn Congress into a fucking Town Hall.

Obama should've gone old school and caned the bitch.
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post #134 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:42pm
South Carolina is to North Carolina as:
A: Haiti is to the Dominican Republic
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post #135 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
South Carolina is to North Carolina as to:
A: Haiti is to the Dominican Republic
hey now. I'd much rather be back in the ATL where I grew up.
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post #136 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:44pm
Its South Carolina what'da expect. The first state to seceede no less. I'm sure there are some nice folks down South, and i don't mean to sound cruel but many of us progressives see the Deep/semi-Deep South, as backwards, inbred, racist white trash.

And the shithead Congressman that yelled out "LIE" is...suprise, surprise, A Birther. Jesus Christ......
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post #137 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:47pm
The redneck asshole caught in the act

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post #138 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:47pm
The ActBlue page for Rob Miller, Wilson's biggest challenger in the next elections.

Just, you know, in case.
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post #139 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post
I know Obama is really pushing for civility and openness, but part of civility is clearly defining what is appropriate and non-appropriate debate. I really fear the consequences of letting these people run amok
Not trying to open a giant can of worms with the next thoughts, OK?

Is appropriate debate lying though?

I believe what Wilson said to be true, that Obama was indeed lying about illegal immigrants not being covered. It don't make it right to scream it out but it still has a ring of truth behind it.

Illegal immigrants are "covered" now under federal emergency room laws. Where in the bill does it say that they will be explicitly denied further coverage? No where as far as I have been able to find.
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post #140 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by History Buff View Post
Its South Carolina what'da expect. The first state to seceede no less. I'm sure there are some nice folks down South, and i don't mean to sound cruel but many of us progressives see the Deep/semi-Deep South, as backwards, inbred, racist white trash.

And the shithead Congressman that yelled out "LIE" is...suprise, surprise, A Birther. Jesus Christ......
Yep. Way to help my defense of the South, congressman. You shithead.
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post #141 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence Boddicker View Post
The redneck asshole caught in the act
OOohhh!!! Desktop!
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post #142 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
Not trying to open a giant can of worms with the next thoughts, OK?

Is appropriate debate lying though?

I believe what Wilson said to be true, that Obama was indeed lying about illegal immigrants not being covered. It don't make it right to scream it out but it still has a ring of truth behind it.

Illegal immigrants are "covered" now under federal emergency room laws. Where in the bill does it say that they will be explicitly denied further coverage? No where as far as I have been able to find.
So you don't want these people to be able to go to emergency rooms?
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post #143 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaieke View Post
He clearly said "to blave"! and as we all know, to blave means to bluff!
*spit*

Credit where credit is due, my man.
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post #144 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
Not trying to open a giant can of worms with the next thoughts, OK?

Is appropriate debate lying though?

I believe what Wilson said to be true, that Obama was indeed lying about illegal immigrants not being covered. It don't make it right to scream it out but it still has a ring of truth behind it.

Illegal immigrants are "covered" now under federal emergency room laws. Where in the bill does it say that they will be explicitly denied further coverage? No where as far as I have been able to find.
The NPR guys covered that. There is a provision in the bill that Illegals can BUY health care from the government run entity.

As for the ER, Doctor's won't throw people who are bleeding to death out of the ER. Will they deny them minor treatments? Don't know.
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post #145 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:53pm
The white documents that the Republicans were holding up everytime the President bashed them was their proposals and amendments that the Democrats have (through committee) refused to add to any bills. Signifying that they had ideas to bring to the table but have been shut out of the process. Which is entirely accurate.

You can't say Obama doesn't know how to give a speech but, lets face it... still lacked details. Almost everything he promised was a complete lie or mistruth. Sure, he'll run a pilot test to see what happens with tort reform but it wont end up in any bill that runs across his desk because the pilot will take longer then the end of the year. It's like giving a kid a toy and saying "go play over there". Let's also not forget the little lie about him vetoing any bill that comes across his desk. The Democrats aren't passing a bill unless it has 60 votes because of Republican fillibuster and 60 votes makes it veto proof.

My favorite part was when he said "I want to talk directly to the seniors" looked directly in the camera for two counts then started turning left and right to read off the teleprompters.
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post #146 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:53pm
I want to go on record that if any of the Democrats would have acted in such a backwoods redneck manner I would think that they would be just as disgusting.

But this South Carolina douchebag will probably get a pass and be heralded.

Fuck SC.
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post #147 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
I believe what Wilson said to be true, that Obama was indeed lying about illegal immigrants not being covered. It don't make it right to scream it out but it still has a ring of truth behind it.

Illegal immigrants are "covered" now under federal emergency room laws. Where in the bill does it say that they will be explicitly denied further coverage? No where as far as I have been able to find.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/sev...t-health-care/

Quote:
False: Illegal Immigrants Will Be Covered

One Republican congressman issued a press release claiming that "5,600,000 Illegal Aliens May Be Covered Under Obamacare," and we’ve been peppered with queries about similar claims. They’re not true. In fact, the House bill (the only bill to be formally introduced in its entirety) specifically says that no federal money would be spent on giving illegal immigrants health coverage:

H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

Also, under current law, those in the country illegally don’t qualify for federal health programs. Of interest: About half of illegal immigrants have health insurance now, according to the nonpartisan Pew Hispanic Center, which says those who lack insurance do so principally because their employers don’t offer it.
I just love how the illegal immigration issue creeps up in every single national issue for some people in the GOP.

BTW you still haven't answered if you consider people with green cards to be part of that 17 million of "foreign nationals".
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post #148 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Judson View Post
So you don't want these people to be able to go to emergency rooms?
The problem is that immigrants go to emergency rooms for routine medical care because they cannot pay at a regular doctors office and they know you cannot be turned away from an emergency room. That drives up cost because the hospital passes on those unrecouped funds to people and insurance companies who can pay.

In the event it is a true emergency then treat them and deport them directly upon release.
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post #149 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
Illegal immigrants are "covered" now under federal emergency room laws. Where in the bill does it say that they will be explicitly denied further coverage? No where as far as I have been able to find.
It doesn't explicitly deny coverage to two-headed llamas, either.
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post #150 of 489
9/9/09 at 10:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
The problem is that immigrants go to emergency rooms for routine medical care because they cannot pay at a regular doctors office and they know you cannot be turned away from an emergency room. That drives up cost because the hospital passes on those unrecouped funds to people and insurance companies who can pay.
Immigrants? Showing your true colors there buddy.

Quote:
In the event it is a true emergency then treat them and deport them directly upon release.
That's great, you want to turn the hospital into deportation centers and make hospital staff responsible for doing this non healthcare related function!
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