Fringe Season 2 - Page 3

The problem with Alias was that Abrams would write the first episode of every season, and an occasional other episode, but it was obvious that whatever he had planned out went to shit as soon as his attention wandered to his next project and other people were left in charge. I don't think that's the issue here, but it's very possible it's another issue with a similar result.

Finally, a great episode this season. Loved it.

Agreed. When they get going with the main storyline, it gets good.

But the first 4 episodes of the season were all over the place, really terrible pacing to the storytelling. Bye Bye Kirk Acevedo.

Anyone know if that "leader" dude was someone semi famous?

Great episode.

I honestly have no idea what anyone could complain about.

Sebastian Roché, eagle eyed viewers may recognise him from the amazingly underrated Odyssey 5, or as the assassin Jack took out with a JCB in the last season of 24.

I'm halfway through the first season, and the negatives are just about outweighing the positives. I'm wondering if I should even bother continuing to watch? The show seems almost irreparably crippled by so many bad decisions at the inception.

First, there is the benign presence of Lt.Daniels. What the hell kind of show always ends with the boss character telling the main character "good work"? Ever hear of dramatic conflict? Then, they try to throw a band aid on it by bringing in another boss character (who provides pointless irritation and stalling as opposed to drama) instead of giving Daniels some balls and a purpose.

The main actress started off as a charismatic presence. I waited patiently for her to grow a character trait beyond "tough and determined female cop", but that never happened. Then, they try to slap on few pointless family members to be inevitably put in mortal peril. Give me a break. At the 11 episode mark, the show is well beyond it's grace period for justifying the presence of what is supposed to be the star of the show.

Pacey is useless as tits on a bull.

The professor gets to be the only human character in the show, the lone source of humor and drama. He's great, but he feels like he's on a different plane of existence than all the other characters.

The setup and flow of the show is just plain weird. The ratio of balance between mythology/arc building and individual episode plots is erratic and unsure instead of intriguing and engaging. I can't tell what exactly I'm supposed to give a shit about. About once in every 3 episodes I see something kinda cool and weird, that's the only impression I take away from the show.

Most of your concerns are addressed in the latter half of s1, certainly. Annoying boss guy #2 gets a cool send-off, Olivia's sister/daughter are never really involved in the cases so there's at least no pointless mortal peril, Pacey gets more to do, Walter continues to be great, and there's tonnes more mythology eps to dig into.

This episode was fantastic.

Agreed that this was the best ep so far. But I found the way they shot Olivia's flashback a little distracting and it was a little too much talky talky. I'm a "show, not tell" person. In any case, what Bell had to say was interesting.

Loved that the show confirmed what we already knew, Pacey is from the alternate dimension. That and the photos of Walter last ep, certainly make the theory that Walter2 created the shape shift soldiers and is trying to open the door between dimensions more likely.

Bye Bye, Charlie. That plot was wearing thin.

They bring in new writers halfway through Season 1 and it picks up dramatically in the latter eps. The finale was just amazing TV.

How? The original Charlie is dead.

But the Charlie from the alt universe is alive.

What was the issue with Kirk Acevedo anyways? Why did they take him off the show?

Also, i still don't understand what was the point of the original car crash that Olivia went through. Where did that come from? LAst season ended with Olivia crossing universes in a fucking elevator and just walking into his office. Now they are retrofitting the plot to make it look like she was driving to meet with him and he simply took abducted her while driving?

Also, the guy that helped her last episode? he's gone like that? Wasn't him kinda important and knew some shit?

Really really sloppy storytelling.

He didn't have anything to do. I complained a lot last season that he was a useless character.

I thought the same thing. They are totally retconning because they wanted a cool entrance for Olivia this season.

I'm with you and not. He was important in helping Olivia regain her physical abilities. Once she was able to walk without the cane and shoot a gun, his job was done. But they did kind of allude that he would be responsible for helping Liv regain her memory as well. But this ep they gave that to Walter.

The show's not very good with continuity. I'm wondering what's the deal with the German guy. He played such a huge role at the end of last season. Where the fuck is he? Wasn't he supposed to be the guy to try and open the pathway to the other dimension?

*Edit: Never mind. I just remembered he got split in half.

It's not sloppy at all. They didn't retrofit anything.

It gets very good and most of your complaints will go away. You just have to power through it until that point.

The only irk I had with the episode was that it was pretty obvious who the shape-shifter was after Walter had taken the nurse's normal, non-mercury blood. That is unless they don't think it's odd that Charlie gunned down the nurse's corpse in the episode before last.

Please explain the differences on how she traveled to the other universe.

Why the car then ?

Also, Kevin Corrigan's character isn't gone. He just wasn't in this episode. You're reaching here

Explain the Elevator and the Car.

There was a lens flare while she was driving there, THAT'S when she originally crossed over, before she got to the restaurant. That's why Nina was "out of country".

It's not that complicated. She was pulled to the other universe while driving. There's no secret elevator with a down button that leads to the other universe. Otherwise what would be the point of protecting gates and all the complicated stuff they've shown?

ETA: I understand why someone would find the sequence in the finale unclear because it's intentionally disorienting, but it seemed fairly apparent that she was driving in our universe...then she was driving somewhere else. That was the first moment where I realized something was going on. It's just weird to suddenly say they're being sloppy or retrofitting it. I'm fairly certain they wouldn't write the scene of her crossing over without already knowing how she was coming back. Pinkner and Whyman were already the new showrunners at that point.

That makes no sense at all. And doesn't match what we were shown.

Like Belly said, there was some disorientation and time skipping when you swap over. She was seeing flashes of the different universes after she crossed over during the car ride.

Also, it's odd that she wouldn't notice the WTC, especially since she was headed there for a meeting. Or did they somehow explain that?

Why doesn't it match what we're shown? I really don't understand. Are you saying because of the elevator? She was having a similar experience during her meeting with William Bell. I watched the finale with some friends and we all thought she jumped over while driving.

I'm sure Bateman can find an explanation for that as well. To everything. Because this show is so perfect and everything is really well thought out.

Sean, you are trying way too hard to defend your friends here. Admit the show's been a little inconsistent from the get go and specially the last 4 episodes. Besides the parallel universe setup, i have no clue what's about anymore.

Depends, if there is some disorientation between verses, maybe she saw one building and went into it but the building she was seeing was in one verse and the one she was actually going into was in the other verse.

I don't know anyone involved with this show. I think a lot of first season was messy and aimless and it felt like there were too many confused cooks in the kitchen. Several episodes bored the hell out of me. I think I got 7 episodes behind at one point, and I never let episodes stack up when I'm a show. I'm only talking about the last few episodes of the first season and the beginning of this one.

See, we are all guessing different things and coming up with different explanations because it was never clear = Sloppy storytelling.

Making a trippy sequence that intends to disorient an audience is not sloppy storytelling. It's a choice.

Hmm, I need to rewatch the Season Finale. I could buy that she was pulled out while driving and the hotel/elevator was her mind trying to make sense of things while crossing over.

What is so hard to get?

Bell told her that they were trying to stop her from talking to him. Hence the shapeshifter ramming her car in our universe. Bell pulled her out moments before the impact. Remember that weird scene in the finale? After he was done he put her back. Seems quite simple to me and not retrofitted at all.

Yeah, I don't remember the finale in great detail, but I do remember thinking she got pulled out of the car.

Just on a logical note, I'm surprised some people would cling so dearly to the idea that the writers would completely rewrite a critical sequence. I give them enough benefit of the doubt to assume they can remember the previous episode they wrote. They're not kittens distracted by anything shiny...

(Besides which, the Nimoy scenes were filmed last year, and he clearly references what happens in the season 2 premiere - "Physics are a bitch")

ETA: A friend was watching season 1 on DVD today, and I noticed that when The Observer is first given a big part in the story (when he watches the crane & construction site collapse), when he walks away from the scene, they use the same lens flares on him that are used during Olivia's travels to the other world...

Man, what a waste of Charlie. Especially since it looked like it was being set up with shapeshifter guy maybe having second thoughts about what he was doing. That would have been an interesting dynamic, but nope, can't do anything with that.

Gotta say the car/elevator thing was confusing to me. I just assumed she was pulled in the elevator because they tend symbolize that kind of thing in film. I'd like to rewatch the car sequence to see what was supposed to be obvious in retrospect.

On the upside, Acevedo finally got to try out his I GOTTA TAKE A HUGE SHIT face. For the whole episode.

Was that Theresa Russell as the LSD guinea pig? She looks a hell of a lot better now than in the last movie I saw her in. Wow.

Anyway, I thought this episode was great. I'm not sure about the whole elevator/car thing but if there really was a lensflare while she was driving (I don't remember seeing it), it makes perfect sense. Now that the cyborg general, or whatever he is, has been put back together I wonder how much crazy shit is going to be flooding into our universe.

I love how Nina Sharp keeps 2 snow globes sitting around just in case she needs to demonstrate what happens when two universes collide.

if they can work in any instance of Walter buying armor for Gene, that'd be great.

Exchanged for his "grimacing in pain and I need to suck on mercury from thermometers" face. Still, it's an improvement.

haha, amazing

I bet she has a cupboard full of them, like Marge Simpson and her drawer full of red beaded necklaces.

I'm more annoyed that alterdimenison people "glow". Did Twilight get the copyright on glitter?

Yeah, the epsiode was pretty average. But the nightmare seems to be Peter's abduction by Walter. Neat.

No more episodes until November? Fuck I hate the networks. They can't air a series logically.

I could not tell, but when Walter was abducting Peter, was there something weird happening in the mirror with the planets ?

I'd have to say the Peter being abducted from an alternate time line thing has to be the most interesting thread in the Fringe continuity.

Whatever happened to Agent Jessup?

Last time I can remember seeing her, she was perusing a bible in the half-man/half-scorpion episode.

Okay episode with a cool last 5 minutes. Peter's nightmare (i.e., memory) was badass.

I kinda don't get what was going on with the dreamcatcher machine. The doc implants a chip in his patients brains, which intercepts their dreams before they hit the brain so they don't have night terrors anymore. His little gadget allows him to experience those dreams, but at the expense of the people also experiencing them. The intensity of the dream experience for both the patient and doc are linked to the dial thing on his computer. Ok, I get that.

But why would people go homicidal? Sure, they are seeing demons and shit, but wouldn't a few of them just scream and run away or curl up in a ball and cry like a baby? Also, the cause of their deaths was extreme exhaustion. Walter suggests that because the patients never experienced REM sleep, they never recharged their bodies. So they should die regardless of the crazy doc mainlining their dreams, particularly if they hadn't been dreaming for months. And its not clear why having the doc access their dreams would cause the exhaustion to kick in. The first guy was in a coma state for 16 hours, wakes up and is completely coherent, and then freaks out and dies? Makes no sense.

Also, I've known some alcoholics in my day. Sure they won't remember things that they've done when they black out. But I don't know one person who would go all schizophrenic and start talking to themselves as if they were another person. That was a bit hokey.

Again, its the little things like the agent realizing that Walter would carry raw milk in his suitcase that make the show.