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At the root of all this Protesting...

post #1 of 13
9/14/09 at 4:34pm
Thread Starter 
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/

An interesting essay by Mr. Greenwald laying out the case for what's inherently wrong with the system and the protesting.
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post #2 of 13
9/14/09 at 5:10pm
On the plus side, criticism of the SEC and the financial bailout seems to not be split along traditional Democratic/Republican or liberal/conservative lines. This is something of a minor miracle in and of itself. Its more split along the anti and pro-corporate ideological divide.
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post #3 of 13
9/14/09 at 5:23pm
Thanks for the article, Andre. Greenwald is a master, always interesting to see what he has to say.
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post #4 of 13
9/14/09 at 5:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pop Zeus View Post
On the plus side, criticism of the SEC and the financial bailout seems to not be split along traditional Democratic/Republican or liberal/conservative lines. This is something of a minor miracle in and of itself. Its more split along the anti and pro-corporate ideological divide.
Are you kidding? I found that debate to be exactly along the traditional liberal/conservative lines. You finally had a Republican administration doing what it was supposed to, Democrats and Republicans cooperating with it in a time of emergency, and what did we get? Political operatives hurling spit balls at each other, liberals spouting Goldman Sachs conspiracy theories, and conservatives towing batshit insane ideological lines when Lehman Brothers demanded rescue.

The whole thing was, and continues to be, a complete fucking joke.
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post #5 of 13
9/14/09 at 6:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Girma View Post
Are you kidding? I found that debate to be exactly along the traditional liberal/conservative lines. You finally had a Republican administration doing what it was supposed to, Democrats and Republicans cooperating with it in a time of emergency, and what did we get? Political operatives hurling spit balls at each other, liberals spouting Goldman Sachs conspiracy theories, and conservatives towing batshit insane ideological lines when Lehman Brothers demanded rescue.

The whole thing was, and continues to be, a complete fucking joke.
I was more referring to recent statements from Pat Buchanan, Paul Krugman and Alfred Steiglitz. How often do those guys agree with each other?
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post #6 of 13
9/14/09 at 7:17pm
I thought it was the conservatives that had the Goldman Sachs conspiracy theories.
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post #7 of 13
9/15/09 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pop Zeus View Post
I was more referring to recent statements from Pat Buchanan, Paul Krugman and Alfred Steiglitz. How often do those guys agree with each other?
I don’t know about Steiglitz, but Buchanon’s philosophy of protectionism often coincides with the left, at least economically.
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post #8 of 13
9/15/09 at 1:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeI View Post
I thought it was the conservatives that had the Goldman Sachs conspiracy theories.
Maybe today, but at that time there was a Republican in the White House, so it was the left accusing Paulson and Bernanke of syphoning off money from the federal government in the form of sweetheart deals for their previous employer (though, Bernanke never did work for Goldman).

The hard right was too busy going on and on about “moral hazards,” telling anyone within earshot that we should let these banks fail, because, as the common refrain went at the time, “this is Wall Street’s problem, not Main Street’s.” It was a pathetic display of political opportunism by the hard right that, sadly, has only continued (though, both sides have dipped into that well since).
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post #9 of 13
9/15/09 at 3:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeI View Post
I thought it was the conservatives that had the Goldman Sachs conspiracy theories.
You must not have read Matt Taibbi's article.
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post #10 of 13
9/15/09 at 9:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte View Post
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/

An interesting essay by Mr. Greenwald laying out the case for what's inherently wrong with the system and the protesting.
Seriously Dre, thanks so much for bringing this brilliant little piece to my attention, it really seems to hit the nail on the head and helps what seems on the surface to be completely terrifyingly nuts make at least some form of sense.

The question is, if this really is misdirected anger by people who cannot bring themselves to question their free market overlords, how do you even beging to combat that when to try and explain to truth of the situation wouyld be seen by these teabagging types as question the very foundations they believe their country is built on?
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post #11 of 13
9/15/09 at 10:37pm
People are angry, fearful and feel powerless. Thats all there is to it. These people still live a life that is basically luxurious and comfortable, thats why they are too lazy to actually look for the reasons of their anger, fear and powerlessness.

Basically, its like a lazy guy on his couch watching TV. He watches some crap, and he really gets annoyed by it, but the remote is out of his reach in the next room, and his annoyance isnt enough to kick his ass to get up and get the remote to switch channels.

I think thats the state of a lot of these people. Its easy to just swallow up explanations offered by your overlords, and as long as life doesnt reach a certain threshold of shittiness and misery, these people will not look beyond the whole show.

Which, incidentially, is exactly the state that IMO some of the more callous and manipulative politicians tried to instill and maintain after the whole 9/11 thing, because it makes for a great populace to manipulate and move like pawns.

Machiavelli would probably agree.
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post #12 of 13
9/15/09 at 11:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte View Post
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/

An interesting essay by Mr. Greenwald laying out the case for what's inherently wrong with the system and the protesting.
He's since published a new Blog on Guantanamo. Here is the orginal blog post

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwa...ent/index.html

What's interesting about his post is that it really points back to the 1960's Counter-Culture, and the backlash against it that began in the 70's and really picked up steam in the 1980s' with Reagan.

And it's telling that so many of these Tea Partyers are older, probably remembering (in a distorted way) the excesses of the 60's when there were voices basically saying the "Rich" should have their money appropriated for Social Justice.
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post #13 of 13
9/15/09 at 11:33pm
^ And just to add, I've watched some YouTubes of the Town Halls in CA and I see a LOT of middle aged and older people making EXACTLY the same arguements that their counterparts made in the 60's

"I work hard, play by the rules, most of my money is being taken away from me by the government" and spent on, let's say it, Minorities and Illegals, by a bloated, corrupt Government that ignores the Constitution.
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