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Mocap Will Let Cameron Do Whatever He Wants To Underage Actresses In BATTLE ANGEL

post #1 of 66
9/15/09 at 1:33pm
Thread Starter 
http://chud.com/articles/articles/20...ITA/Page1.html
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post #2 of 66
9/15/09 at 1:49pm
When Avatar tanks they are gonna stop him from doing these Mo-Cap movies, yes?
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post #3 of 66
9/15/09 at 1:54pm
Avatar won't tank... bad, that's nigh impossible. But reading about Cameron's next projects after that makes me wonder whether if he's too old for this shit or I am.
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post #4 of 66
9/15/09 at 2:03pm
I actually got Battle Angel for Christmas back in 1994 or 1995. I have fond memories of it tinted by teenage nostalgia. Of course that was the same year I convinced my folks to get me the Legend of the Overfiend box set as well. When will Cameron adapt that?
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post #5 of 66
9/15/09 at 2:07pm
That whole "Remember this? Well this is x meets y via z on acid!" tangent reads like a spoof of over-zealousness.
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post #6 of 66
9/15/09 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Bear View Post
That whole "Remember this? Well this is x meets y via z on acid!" tangent reads like a spoof of over-zealousness.
Yet it seems to be Cameron modus operandi these days. *sigh*
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post #7 of 66
9/15/09 at 3:17pm
I remember when Angelina Jolie called Tomb Raider "James Bond with a sex change on acid."

Except I think if there was a Bond movie where he got captured, was forced into having a sex change at gun point, and then fed an acid-only diet the rest of his life, it'd be too awesome for words.

And exponentially better than Tomb Raider.



But I do love the "It's ____ on acid/steroids!," like that's something people instantly related to and want to pay money to see. Aren't the only people who frequently use those products filthy hippie burnouts or latently-homosexual cage fighters, respectively?

"Man, I hear this movie is like 'The Evening Star' on acid! Let's go!"


*high-fives all around*
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post #8 of 66
9/15/09 at 4:08pm
That report is one of the creepiest fucking things I've ever read:

Quote:
That includes using an underage actor in very VERY violent scenes.
Reports on James Cameron movies by guys who are into pedo snuff films. Awesome! Like Cameron needed more idiots on his side.
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post #9 of 66
9/15/09 at 4:12pm
I have seen plenty of underage girls in very violent films. Don't see a problem, especially when it's all done in a mocap suit.
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post #10 of 66
9/15/09 at 4:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsycheOut00 View Post
Avatar won't tank... bad, that's nigh impossible. But reading about Cameron's next projects after that makes me wonder whether if he's too old for this shit or I am.
Isn't there a very real possibility it will tank? 300+ million dollar budget (is that with P&A or no?), no buzz and no stars has me thinking if this tops out a little above 100 that's tank city.

This was just a way for me to voice my displeasure for this Mo-cap stuff. Keep it for animating videogames and ditch the rest.
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post #11 of 66
9/15/09 at 4:24pm
Here is the problem as I see it. Why hire an actual under aged girl if you are going to use a mo-cap puppet? Seems odd to me. Heck with the technology we now have access to, we could hire Linda Fiorentino and make her look like a blue skinned five year old

Also, whenever I see a film and some waif with stick arms (nothing against those people, I'm one of them) is knocking out men twice her height and five times her weight, it takes me out of it. I know that no matter how hard I kick someone, I'm not going to be able to kick them through the air.

I thought half the fun of the bathroom scene in true lies was that you're watching a heavy like Arnold throw someone around. It looks brutal because Arnold looks strong. It is not just the damage caused to the environment, but the person causing the damage that helps sell the brutality of the fisticuffs.

Whenever I watch Angelina Jolie running around with steel guns that probably weigh more than she can lift, I find it silly, not cool.

There are ways to do it and make it look awesome (Jennifer Garner in THE KINGDOM) but examples seem few and far between. From the description we just read it seems like they are not going to be going that route.
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post #12 of 66
9/15/09 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rando View Post
Isn't there a very real possibility it will tank? 300+ million dollar budget (is that with P&A or no?), no buzz and no stars has me thinking if this tops out a little above 100 that's tank city.

This was just a way for me to voice my displeasure for this Mo-cap stuff. Keep it for animating videogames and ditch the rest.
237 million + marketing!

This might disappoint but it wont tank. OW worldwide will ensure that alone.
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post #13 of 66
9/15/09 at 5:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitches Leave View Post
237 million + marketing!

This might disappoint but it wont tank. OW worldwide will ensure that alone.
Yeah, I think tanking won't happen. It won't be the huge moneymaker they hope it'll be but we're not talking Heaven's Gate catastrophe either.
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post #14 of 66
9/15/09 at 5:28pm
There should a very fucking firm rule that UNTIL you've actually consumed LSD, you don't get to make those "a + b + z, on ACID!!!1" analogies.

This would then clear up the whole problem because, once you've actually EXPERIENCED it, you'd realize that analogy if fucking ridiculous.

Unless you're implying that something will now be more apt to walk around in an uber-contemplative daze while cackling maniacally, it just doesn't fit.
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post #15 of 66
9/15/09 at 5:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeypants View Post
There should a very fucking firm rule that UNTIL you've actually consumed LSD, you don't get to make those "a + b + z, on ACID!!!1" analogies.

This would then clear up the whole problem because, once you've actually EXPERIENCED it, you'd realize that analogy if fucking ridiculous.

Unless you're implying that something will now be more apt to walk around in an uber-contemplative daze while cackling maniacally, it just doesn't fit.
I tried it once, it was ok. It was like, disolved onto an altoid. Minty!

Might try it again soon with a friend. That said, I can sort of get what she was saying, and when it comes to Ms Jolie, I'll believe she's taken plenty of acid in her day
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post #16 of 66
9/15/09 at 7:46pm
Actually, I think 'Avatar' has pretty serious 'Heaven's Gate' potential. Again, an original sci-fi film with no stars isn't guaranteed any business at all. If it does flop I think Cameron's career will survive, but I doubt if he'll be allowed the same creative and budgetary extravagances on his next film.
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post #17 of 66
9/15/09 at 7:53pm
They are going to sell this movie as the event of the decade and people will eventually buy into it once they've had enough marketing shoved down their throates.

I agree that if that last trailer was the only thing released to sell this movie then yes, we have tank potential. But this is Cameron, they will go overboard selling this thing in the last 6 weeks before release. It will probably do at least 200 million in its first 4 days worldwide. The weekend after that it will have gone past the "tank" bottomline.

And there is af big difference on tanking and disappointing I'd say.
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post #18 of 66
9/15/09 at 8:08pm
People will go see anything bright, loud and colorful...Avatar certainly fits the bill...it won't be hard to sell this in the next couple months. It wont tank...opening weekend will be huge, maybe not record breaking, but huge...

it still holds the record for most watched trailer of all time.
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post #19 of 66
9/15/09 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
People will go see anything bright, loud and colorful
Tell that to Speed Racer
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post #20 of 66
9/15/09 at 8:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Kate View Post
Also, whenever I see a film and some waif with stick arms (nothing against those people, I'm one of them) is knocking out men twice her height and five times her weight, it takes me out of it. I know that no matter how hard I kick someone, I'm not going to be able to kick them through the air.
I completely agree with you about Angelina Jolie's stick arms. Although the character in question is a robot, so you can suspend some disbelief. Even though she looks like a little girl, she's made of metal.
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post #21 of 66
9/15/09 at 8:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholas View Post
Tell that to Speed Racer
The majority of the time people will go see anything bright, loud and colorful. Speed Racer was too bright loud and colorful, so it cancelled itself out.
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post #22 of 66
9/15/09 at 8:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskey tango foxtrot View Post
Actually, I think 'Avatar' has pretty serious 'Heaven's Gate' potential. Again, an original sci-fi film with no stars isn't guaranteed any business at all. If it does flop I think Cameron's career will survive, but I doubt if he'll be allowed the same creative and budgetary extravagances on his next film.
That Avatar really comes in handy for this, eh?
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post #23 of 66
9/15/09 at 9:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
People will go see anything bright, loud and colorful[/i]
No they won't, at least not in the numbers 'Avatar' needs to succeed. The trailer might have set records, but myself and many others were unimpressed. Fox can try selling it as 'the event of the decade' but their only hook is 'From the Director of 'Titanic'' and only geeks go to movies because of who the director is.
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post #24 of 66
9/15/09 at 9:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
That Avatar really comes in handy for this, eh?
Glad you noticed. Creepy looking fucker, isn't he?
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post #25 of 66
9/15/09 at 9:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskey tango foxtrot View Post
Glad you noticed. Creepy looking fucker, isn't he?
He sure has the look of a guy who would blow up a horse for the sake of art.
I wonder if anyone actually dared confront him on set...seriously, I wouldnt be surprised if he directed actors at gunpoint.
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post #26 of 66
9/15/09 at 9:53pm
Probably best to start another thread if we're gonna discuss Cimino (which I'd be happy to do).
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post #27 of 66
9/15/09 at 9:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitches Leave View Post
I have seen plenty of underage girls in very violent films. Don't see a problem, especially when it's all done in a mocap suit.
Yeah, young girls in a violent film, directed by James Cameron? What an ALIEN concept.
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post #28 of 66
9/15/09 at 9:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskey tango foxtrot View Post
fox can try selling it as 'the event of the decade' but their only hook is 'from the director of 'titanic'' and only geeks go to movies because of who the director is.
lol.
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post #29 of 66
9/15/09 at 9:59pm
Do you have a personal stake in this movie, Ambler?
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post #30 of 66
9/15/09 at 10:04pm
Personal stake? Because I don't think it will bomb? Come now.

I was laughing because your post is funny. Initial interest in this movie is because it's from James Cameron who hasn't made a movie in 12 years (Spielberg is another director who's a star in his own films). That and the 3D tech will put buts in seats initially...after that it's word of mouth...I haven't seen the movie, so I can't comment further.
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post #31 of 66
9/15/09 at 10:11pm
Fair enough. Cameron's name can't hurt, I'm just not sure how much it really means to average filmgoers. The 'initial interest' so far is mainly among geeks. I don't know anyone in the real world who's aware of the film yet or who's even particularly noticed Cameron's absence post 'Titanic'.
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post #32 of 66
9/15/09 at 10:15pm
Quote:
Did you see the KICK-ASS trailer?
Wait....besides that crappy cam held version, has anyone seen the trailer?
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post #33 of 66
9/15/09 at 10:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskey tango foxtrot View Post
Fair enough. Cameron's name can't hurt, I'm just not sure how much it really means to average filmgoers.
It wont mean anything except "go see this film because we said so" advertising that will happen soon. That's how movies get seen, they play ads, fancy trailers, posters, etc....people go see it. Cameron's name and absence is a bonus that will all but gurantee an huge opening.

Quote:
The 'initial interest' so far is mainly among geeks. I don't know anyone in the real world who's aware of the film yet or who's even particularly noticed Cameron's absence post 'Titanic'.
Well I haven't seen any ads for the films yet, so you're stating the obvious. People will remember Cameron's been gone 12 years when the ads start telling them that.
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post #34 of 66
9/15/09 at 10:54pm
I think Im getting too old for this because my immediate first thought was "it's great they can make a realistic looking fourteen year old girl run around causing excessive amounts of ultraviolence, but why would they want to?"
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post #35 of 66
9/15/09 at 11:21pm
I endured the Anime phase back in the 90s because my housemates all thought every single frame of whatever shit they dragged home from the video store was awesome, but Battle Angel Alita was one of a handful of titles I actually did enjoy. Handled properly this would be a fantastic property to adapt. I'm not a huge Cameron fan but I think he is perfectly suited to this material. It's got a kick ass chick in a sci fi setting whose only real purpose in life is to kick ass. No depth, weight or gravity to this needed; just awesome ass kicking.
Perfect for Cameron.
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post #36 of 66
9/15/09 at 11:25pm
All movies have advertising, that doesn't mean they all find an audience. And I still think you're overestimating Cameron's power as a name draw. Again, 'From the Director of Titanic' doesn't hurt, but I don't think that's enough to convince most people that this is something they need to see.
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post #37 of 66
9/15/09 at 11:31pm
You might be right, but based on the evidence we have (Cameron., sci-fi epic, 3-D, almost no competition in that winter slot) , there's no reason to believe it wont have a big opening weekend and sustain itself for a while. Anyone touting bomb is just being silly.
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post #38 of 66
9/15/09 at 11:32pm
I don't quite get why they would use mo cap on a non cg creation. Just seems like a round about way of achieving the desired effect, and needlessly expensive. It would also would look at least somewhat fake.

As for Avatar's BO, I think its bound to be a bomb. Its probably the single most expensive film ever made, so its going to need to be an all time smash to be considered a success.
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post #39 of 66
9/15/09 at 11:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
People will go see anything bright, loud and colorful...Avatar certainly fits the bill...it won't be hard to sell this in the next couple months. It wont tank...opening weekend will be huge, maybe not record breaking, but huge...

it still holds the record for most watched trailer of all time.
Why do people keep bringing this up like it's some sort of template for future success? Keyboard Cat gets loads of play too, doesn't mean I want to see a film based on him.
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post #40 of 66
9/15/09 at 11:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
it still holds the record for most watched trailer of all time.
I find that very hard to believe. Got a link?
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post #41 of 66
9/15/09 at 11:47pm
But will any of that mo-cap stuff beat the visceral impact that those crazy Thai martial arts movies have been doing with underage martial artists?

When it comes to Hollywood, trying to push for this 'supposed' desire to see an underage actor in all sorts of extreme peril is kind of a lose-lose situation. Some people will get taken out of the movie because (gasp!) a child was put through such a dangerous shoot. Or some people won't notice anymore difference between a child in a Hollywood action scene and a pampered star in a Hollywood action scene.

Even with the most advanced CG, the movie's PR will make sure that nobody forgets that all that stuff was faked in a computer, which takes all the thrill out of it. That was the fun of older Jackie Chan movies. Even the most mundane stuff became awesome because you were told he was really doing it. The only way all the distancing CG mayhem becomes gripping is if the story is there to make you care. I actually trust Cameron to be able to deliver on this aspect, regardless of how tired the story may be. But still... I know a lot of people here aren't as trusting.
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post #42 of 66
9/15/09 at 11:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabster View Post
I find that very hard to believe. Got a link?
I do remember reading (on CHUD, I think) that it was supposedly the most downloaded trailer on Apple.
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post #43 of 66
9/15/09 at 11:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabster View Post
I find that very hard to believe. Got a link?
Link? Just google "Avatar" and "most watched trailer", every outlet has reported it since the trailer hit.
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post #44 of 66
9/15/09 at 11:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan S~ View Post
Why do people keep bringing this up like it's some sort of template for future success? Keyboard Cat gets loads of play too, doesn't mean I want to see a film based on him.
I said it wouldn't bomb. To be successful you'd have to make 4 or 5 times your budget back, maybe more. The consensus seems to be "bomb" or "huge hit"...where's the middle ground?

Who the fuck is Keyboard Cat?
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post #45 of 66
9/15/09 at 11:56pm
Google it, Ambler!
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post #46 of 66
9/16/09 at 12:12am
From Devin's Article:
Now picture the "Angel of Death" looking like a child. a 14 year old. Now imagine this, this little girl goes through these guys like butter. Did you see the KICK-ASS trailer? Well imagine that girl via the Matrix via Ghost in the shell, via AI. "Remember the True Lies bathroom brawl?" Well take out Arnold, and "copy and paste" Bruce Lee on acid via the Terminator. as seen through the eyes of a sweet innocent 14 year old cyborg girl. And all of this done via the mind of James Cameron, Holy shit what is not to love? The lights flicker and shit hits the fan. Awesome stuff.

This sounds like Shit.

Really, Anime movies have great visuals and (usually) non-nonsensical plots. Why is Hollywood trying so hard to duplicate that using exponentially more expensive technology to achieve the same effect?
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post #47 of 66
9/16/09 at 12:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
I do remember reading (on CHUD, I think) that it was supposedly the most downloaded trailer on Apple.
Yea its supposedly the most viewed trailer on apples web site. Trailers also debut on many other sites, so this doesn't mean its the most viewed trailer of all time.

The thing about Avatars budget, one has to inflate the costs to account for the time value of money. If your cash, or investments are not earning money well, then they are losing money. Even 400 million in a bank for ten years would garner significant returns. My point is the cost reflects not just the insane amounts of cash spent, but also the absurdly long time its been in development.

Ambler the middle ground is actually where the studios would call it a hit, and the public probably wouldn't know sincel the true budget will never be revealed for fear of disgust and outrage. I don't see how its not the most expensive film of all time, and by a wide margin too.
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post #48 of 66
9/16/09 at 12:40am
You know what anime movies are missing? That pivotal scene right before the sixth reel starts where all the heroes are being briefed by the general regarding the battle plan. Mostly because it'd go something like:

". . . and men, should Delta and Gamma squadron fail to deliver the payload, it leaves us just one option. And of course I'm talking about . . . transforming into a GIANT TENTACLE MONSTER."


"Hoo-ah!"

*patriotic score booms in*
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post #49 of 66
9/16/09 at 12:52am
Oh geez, don't tell me that James Cameron has contracted.....Robert Zemeckis Syndrome!

Fantastic.
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post #50 of 66
9/16/09 at 2:24am
Kate's right. Why bothering hiring a young girl to play Alita if it's all gonna end up mo-capped? You can hire a really great adult actress to play her and get a totally sophisticated performance that would be next to impossible to get from a child, then apply her performance to the body and proportions of a CGI robot girl. And then all this shit about too much violence is moot anyways. At least, that's my initial take on what makes sense.
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