CHUD's 100 must-have albums - Page 2

I prefer people just adding to the list. I understand your concern, of course, but I've already got some things on my iTunes list thanks to this thread.

If we want to debate the best, we can start that thread. But it's just going to be the same lists we've seen before, with people ultimately disagreeing on everything because of their personal tastes. How would we judge an album worthy of being added to the list? Impact? Does an album's importance in an era necessarily make it the best album?

There would need to be some sort of consensus, but perhaps having everyone list their personal top 10 or 20 albums, in order, would allow us to the pick and choose which albums belong on a must have list.

Johnnycinco, you understand that this list has no consequences in the real world, right? You aren't going to actually be forced to own these albums and only these albums. I'm pretty sure it's just a chance for people to introduce others to (up to) four albums they may or may not have heard of.

The list has so far the Hackers soundtrack (which I own, but come on...) and fucking CAKE. I'm pretty sure we'll see worse, or Live, at some point.

Holy shit Chris! Thanks for pointing that out. I thought that Princess Kate and I were gonna go broke buying all of these.

Chris, I am trying to incite debate and perhaps a little more thought into this process. We already have a "songs that are owning you" thread which highlight tracks and artists that people should check out. And if we are trying to introduce music to people based on this thread, thank god "Slippery When Wet" was included. Because no one has heard of this Bon Jovi fellow aside from his work in U-571.

Christ, are you this much of a fucking drag offline?

The best venue for this is actually the Album of the Month thread that started up a month ago.

I tend to agree with Johnny-- of course, it's just for fun, but the Draconian exclusivity of 100 albums suggests that it's different from "here's a list of albums that I think other people would really enjoy, but might not have heard."

For instance, I agree that Liz Phair's Whip-Smart was underrated when it was released (and continues to be). But IF Ms Phair belongs on a list of 100 "must-own" albums (a big "if" IMHO), on what basis do we place that album ahead of Exile?

[derail]
What's wrong with fucking Cake?[/derail]

I understand that Throwing Copper is a personal fav of yours......

Isn't this list pretty much built around individual preference and taste though? I just don't get why people are offended if any album is included, considering there is no real criteria for selections set forth except for "no best of's, only 4 choices, and you REALLY have to like it.".

Nothing, I guess, as long as it is your cake.

I don't think anyone's "offended." It's just that if there's any validity to winnowing the entire range of music down to the consensus of 100 "must-own" albums, that's a bit different from recommending a few favorites.

We could all submit our own personal top 10 MUST HAVE albums and see if there's any overlap.

One can have individual preferences and tastes and understand those preferences and tastes aren't a mark of quality.

I don't particularly like lobster. It doesn't do it for me for whatever reason. It's not a meal that even makes a top fifty list of things I want for dinner. However, if someone put lobster on a list of fine foods, I'd understand why it's there. I don't personally like it, but I get why it's considered a delicacy, even if I personally don't like it.

Conversely, I was in a hurry over lunch and I grabbed a burger from the Hardees drive-through on my way back to work. It was pretty good for a fast, no-thought lunch. Given a choice between that and a lobster tail, I'd might well take the Hardees burger quite a bit more often than not. However, if asked to contribute something to a list of fine food, I wouldn't scribble in "burger from Hardees" on the line below lobster.

I have personal tastes and preferences, but I can recognize when those tastes and preferences are for something that isn't what one would consider quality.

Yeah, I mean, it's absolutely the right thing to do to be exposing each other to albums that have special meanings for us; I've found a few new favorites reading CHUD threads over the past few months.

And there's plenty of bandwidth for all kinds of threads.

But if we bother to try to brand these choices as "100 Must Have"s, that suggests we're putting some kind of selection process to work to arrive at a consensus.

Discussion and debate is key to keeping this from becoming a retread of the ill-fated 1000. Granted, not everyone will have heard every selection, however, like Mr. Booth says, the list is still in progress and will likely be assessed as we go.

Are we submitting this list to Rolling Stone Magazine or something? 'cos i totally missed that memo.

See, that's the problem: because it's just a bunch of us shooting the shit about music, the response to any question can always be "don't take it so seriously."

So, yeah, it's all just for fun.

No, it's not. Apparently we're arriving at consensus.

As long as the consensus is that Ten was whiny pretentious crap, I'm in.

Trying to secure a little list integrity isn't the same thing as going draconian. It's simply an attempt to stop people completely relaxing their attitude to selections. The idea is to really identify what constitutes a "must have" album, not "which album will make me seem different or sophisticated?" I, for one, have found it very interesting looking through my collection and being that discerning. Of course, it is just a bit of craic, ultimately.

I can see something like Slippery When Wet belonging on a list like this, I'm sure many people would consider that album a Must Have. While many don't, well, at that point it's personal taste you're debating. I would say Abbey Road is a must have, and it's not like that album needs me promoting it. The Hackers soundtrack on the other hand, I could see as dq'd just on the merit that it's a collection of multiple artists, which borders on a "best of" scenario. There could be a great list for just movie soundtracks though (and I know there's a score list around the boards already).

The CONSENSUS seems to be that the 'Hackers' soundtrack doesn't pass the sniff test for our list; many people have attacked it and nobody has defended it (apart from the original poster). I think that it's safe to drop it from the list NOW.

However, I tend to disagree that it should be dropped simply because of the fact that it contains multiple contributions from various artists. Applying THAT criteria would exclude the soundtrack to 'Saturday Night Fever', an album which TOTALLY should be considered for this list.

I was gonna say something, but then I remembered you liked Cake. Nevermind...

1. Black Love - The Afghan Whigs (1996)
2. Permutations - Amon Tobin (1998)
3. Some Girls - The Rolling Stones (1978)
4. Ten - Pearl Jam (1991)
5. Dulcinea - Toad The Wet Sprocket (1994)
6. Willie & the Family Live (Expanded Edition) - Willie Nelson (1978)
7. Whip-Smart - Liz Phair (1994)
8. Slippery When Wet - Bon Jovi (1986)
9. Little Earthquakes - Tori Amos (1992)
10. Appetite for Destruction - Guns N' Roses (1987)
11. The Private Press - DJ Shadow(1997)
12. Born to Run - Bruce Springsteen (1975)
13. American IV - Johnny Cash (2002)
14. Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex Pistols - The Sex Pistols (1977)
15. Blackwater Park - Opeth (2001)
16. The Edges of Twilight - The Tea Party (1995)
17. Travels - The Pat Metheny Group (1983)
18. Achtung Baby - U2 (1991)
19. Joe's Garage - Frank Zappa
20. Against the Grain - Bad Religion (1990)
21. It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back - Public Enemy (1988)
22. Cake - Fashion Nugget (1996)

Updated with the removal of the soundtrack to 'Hackers'.

Let's debate the list as it stands now and cull any other titles that are found wanting.

1. Black Love - The Afghan Whigs (1996)
2. Permutations - Amon Tobin (1998)
3. Some Girls - The Rolling Stones (1978)
4. Ten - Pearl Jam (1991)
5. Dulcinea - Toad The Wet Sprocket (1994)
6. Willie & the Family Live (Expanded Edition) - Willie Nelson (1978)
7. Whip-Smart - Liz Phair (1994)
8. Slippery When Wet - Bon Jovi (1986)
9. Little Earthquakes - Tori Amos (1992)
10. Appetite for Destruction - Guns N' Roses (1987)
11. The Private Press - DJ Shadow(1997)
12. Born to Run - Bruce Springsteen (1975)
13. American IV - Johnny Cash (2002)
14. Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex Pistols - The Sex Pistols (1977)
15. Blackwater Park - Opeth (2001)
16. The Edges of Twilight - The Tea Party (1995)
17. Travels - The Pat Metheny Group (1983)
18. Achtung Baby - U2 (1991)
19. Joe's Garage - Frank Zappa
20. Against the Grain - Bad Religion (1990)
21. It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back - Public Enemy (1988)
22. Cake - Fashion Nugget (1996)
23. Sound Of Lies - The Jayhawks

And after writing about separating personal taste from the good, I'm gonna go with my favorite band anyway.

Sure, Tomorrow The Green Grass was the closest thing they had to a hit record, and it features Blue, the closest thing they had to a hit song, but top to bottom Sound Of Lies is the best album from the Jayhawks, the third best band (sorry Husker Du) Minneapolis ever produced. Not even Alex Chilton managed to sound this Big Star-ry post-Big Star. Simultaneously bleak and upbeat, simultaneously depressing and uplifting, simultaneously wounded and positive, it is a complete album from front to back.

I'm actually being serious. So some guy thinks the Hackers soundtrack is one of the best albums of all time... I completely disagree but so what? I don't feel like he should need consensus to put it on the list. It's like when CHUD actually does a best/worst of list - do you think Nick asks the other guys if he's allowed to make his pick? Personally, for a list like this I'd just have 50 people or 100 people each nominate their top 1 or 2 albums of all time - though the logistics kinda suck.

Anyway, that's just my opinion.

Okay, I'm gonna throw down the gauntlet at Toad the Wet Sprocket. Not that there's anything particularly wrong with them, but I have no doubt we can easily come up with 99 other albums that are more must-own than Dulcinea.

Because it's not like I gave reasons for it. Whatever, with this list I'm:

Well if we can't discuss selections without people getting pissy about it, let's just call the whole thing off.

Well, I'd like to defend the list briefly. This is a list that a collective are making so of course we will have issues with certain albums. Overall its a fair list that is giving everyone their say. That said, I think U2 should be taken off because there was never a case made for it; it was just thrown out there and added.

Albums like Slippery When Wet may not represent music with great depth but they certainly make a great case for how FUN music can be and I think that is as important to a list like this as any other genre. If I'm stuck on a desert island with a solar powered 512kb mp3 player, I'm gonna welcome a Bon Jovi album when things get grimmest.

For the good of the thread and the convenience of the next Bon Jovi fan, here is the list:

1. Black Love - The Afghan Whigs (1996)
2. Permutations - Amon Tobin (1998)
3. Some Girls - The Rolling Stones (1978)
4. Ten - Pearl Jam (1991)
5. Dulcinea - Toad The Wet Sprocket (1994)
6. Willie & the Family Live (Expanded Edition) - Willie Nelson (1978)
7. Whip-Smart - Liz Phair (1994)
8. Slippery When Wet - Bon Jovi (1986)
9. Little Earthquakes - Tori Amos (1992)
10. Appetite for Destruction - Guns N' Roses (1987)
11. The Private Press - DJ Shadow(1997)
12. Born to Run - Bruce Springsteen (1975)
13. American IV - Johnny Cash (2002)
14. Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex Pistols - The Sex Pistols (1977)
15. Blackwater Park - Opeth (2001)
16. The Edges of Twilight - The Tea Party (1995)
17. Travels - The Pat Metheny Group (1983)
18. Achtung Baby - U2 (1991)
19. Joe's Garage - Frank Zappa
20. Against the Grain - Bad Religion (1990)
21. It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back - Public Enemy (1988)
22. Cake - Fashion Nugget (1996)
23. Sound Of Lies - The Jayhawks

Feel free, I'm just eye rolling. I'm not going to try and bother defending my choice, I already spent time talking about why I felt it deserved inclusion, and I can't exactly argue with logic like "there are 99 better albums". I'm sure there are hundreds ofthousands of better musical selections since the dawn of the pentatonic scale than Born to Run, but I don't feel like raining on anyones parade.

For some reason, 'Dulcinea' never hooked into me. I beat the crap out of 'Fear', though.

But I wouldn't see it as "raining on my parade". Especially if you offered up more compelling arguments for disagreeing with me than a Seinfeld gif.

I don't post on a list like this unless I'm prepared to defend a pick beyond the initial selection.

I've never liked defending art. I consider that album to be moving, a great showcase of a band working solidly together, it has wonderful arpeggiating guitar lines that helped redefine (for me) phrasings in songwriting, Glenn Phillips is a gifted singer and songwriter, and I found the thematic elements of the album compelling. This is all personal taste though. On top of that, what is there to defend? I was being serious when I said I can't argue with logic like "There are 99 better albums", because there isn't a single album on this list so far that can't have the same thing said for it.

Did the guy who nominated Cake, who are, let's face it, a novelty act akin to Presidents Of the United States America, really just take a slap at Ten?

lol @ this thread

Seriously, and that's mostly why I posted the seinfeld gif, not just because Dickson doesn't like toad the wet sprocket, it's that stuff like that is bound to keep happening.

It started off so well.

We should have known a list like this would devolve into "this is MY favorite", "but they're not MY favorite!".

ETA: sorry, I don't mean to shit on the thread, I'm just giggling that this community keeps trying this, and it NEVER seems to work.

Because everyone throws their hands up and says "You can't discuss this!" instead of trying to discuss it.

Besides, there's a difference between explaining why you like an album and why it belongs on a list of 100 must-have albums, which attempts to place them into a context beyond "I like it". I can go on until I'm blue in the face about why I like Prince Charming by Adam and the Ants, but I certainly wouldn't argue for its inclusion on this list.

but my musical taste is superior to yours! Dammit!

In all seriousness, the topic is perhaps too broad and all-encompassing. It might be better to pick a genre and debate the best example for that format.

Examples:
- 1980's Hair Metal
- 1990's Grunge
- 1970's Punk
- 1970's Art/Progressive Rock
- 1980's Synth pop

It's an idea, anyways.

I said my piece about Ten, and that I think it's overrated slow-cooked angsty grunge rock. I could continue - that I think Eddie Vedder has attained Bono-levels of self-righteousness and yes, that does color my enjoyment of any of Pearl Jam's music. But at least I'm offering substantive criticism.

You may proceed to continue to offer non-sequitors about me liking a band you don't, but if you don't want to at least discuss your reasons, why bother?

It just strikes me that, every time we do a list, people complain that all we do is list and never have a discussion. Then we say we should have a discussion, and people say we can't really discuss personal tastes.

I was gonna throw out 'White Light/White Heat', but I'm worried someone will say it doesn't count because The Velvets can't play their instruments.

Yep. He sure did.

It's funny that if I had taken a swipe at Nevermind, it probably wouldn't have caused much of a ripple.

I don't see what's so wrong with discussion, debate, or challenging a choice we feel is questionable. I think Johnnycinco and Bobby Bear are right. Argument and clash between differing perspectives is what makes the whole exercise worthwhile.

Don't see the problem in making fun of Bon Jovi, Cake, Toad the Wet Sprocket, or even Pearl Jam, as long as the ribbing's good-natured. I was half-hoping someone would challenge my selection, or tell me i was full of beans. What I hate is no comment, or the banal "Great pick!"

Or just pick some stuff that should be left off it. If this really was an essential list, wouldn't half of it be filled with The Beatles, Zeppelin, The Who, etc. anyway? I don't doubt U2 and the Stones are essential, but they're obviously essential. Wouldn't we maybe be better served with a top 100 list of essential albums that weren't big hits? That eliminates the discussion of Bon Jovi, since, valid as a choice or not, it's an obvious, huge album. Plus then we have more room for things like Toad that are worthy of discussion but seem insignificant when taking a list spot that Revolver might otherwise occupy.

Actually I agree with this. I'm already familiar with every title that's been listed. 100 Underrated Albums would probably be a more valuable list.

Seconded.