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CHUD Album of the Month (or so) 09/18/09: THE DREAM SYNDICATE and MY BLOODY VALENTINE

post #1 of 45
Thread Starter 
I considered a number of albums for my choices, some more difficult and esoteric, some more familiar and accessible. Ultimately my choices fell somewhere in the middle, so here are two great albums from my favorite period in rock music, the post-punk, pre-Nirvana 80's underground.

The Dream Syndicate - 'The Days of Wine and Roses' (1982)

A band out of time, The Dream Syndicate courted massive success but never connected. More accessible than New York contemporaries like Sonic Youth and The Swans and more musical than their peers in the LA hardcore scene, the band produced several critically acclaimed albums and toured with the likes of REM and U2 before disbanding in 1989. Though they would produce consistently excellent guitar driven rock throughout their career and a series of lineup changes, they would never top this 1982 debut.

Opening with the anthemic 'Tell Me When It's Over', the band immediately makes clear its debt to The Velvet Underground and Television particularly in the dual guitar interplay of Karl Precoda and Steve Wynn (also vocals). The band continues to rock confidently over the next three tracks ("Definitely Clean ', 'That's What You Always Say' and 'Then She Remembers'), White Light/White Heat inspired guitar leads bleeding into simple, heavily distorted chord progressions, anchored by bassist Kendra Smith and drummer Dennis Duck. But the albums centerpiece is the majestic, haunting six minute and ten second 'Halloween'. The next few tracks are slower, more atmospheric, with Smith taking lead vocals on 'Too Little Too Late' before the album closes with the raucous title track.

My Bloody Valentine - 'Isn't Anything'

'Loveless' is undoubtedly the bands masterpiece, at least until they release the third album that Kevin Shields is still promising. Their full length debut 'Isn't Anything' is merely excellent. From a band known for their intensely stoned atmospherics, this is a surprisingly hard driving, song oriented album. The influence of Sonic Youth and The Jesus and Mary Chain is particularly evident here. Though best known for Shields' guitar experiments, it's Colm Ó Cíosóig's drum heroics that elevate this album. Opening with the surprisingly funky 'Soft as Snow (But Warm Inside)' Ó Cíosóig pounds with fury and precision (although not every track features drums). 'Lose My Breath' and 'All I Need' hint at the direction the band would take next, with other standout songs including 'Feed Me With Your Kiss' and 'sueisfine'. My personal favorite is 'Several Girls Galore', with a vocal by guitarist Bilinda Butcher that recalls a young Marianne Faithfull.

I'm gonna wrap up now. Hope you all enjoy these albums. That was much harder than I'd anticipated.
post #2 of 45
Nice picks. I downloaded The Days of Wine and Roses years ago (the 2001 reissue with a bunch of bonus tracks) and have listened to it in the background a couple times, but have never really given it my full attention. I've got Loveless, but have only heard little bits of Isn't Anything.
post #3 of 45
Until yesterday I had never heard of The Dream Syndicate, now I can't get them out of my album. Out of time is the best way to describe them because they feel like a band about ten years ahead of themselves. I hear the Pixies and elements of the Joshua Tree and all kinds of other bands, even a vague sound of Nirvana on songs like Halloween, and this soundscape is coming from an album that predates all those things by at least ten years.

Its an amazing, amazing, album and it sounds completely different to what I expected, I even get elements of British post-punk in their at times. I'm going to give Isn't Anything a listen tomorrow, like Dave I've got Loveless but I never explored the rest of the My Bloody Valentine catalogue.
post #4 of 45
Thread Starter 
Glad you like it Spike. That album in particular has been somewhat unjustly forgotten and I'm hoping will be a revelation for a few people.
post #5 of 45
CONFESSION: I've never listened to MBV. Time to fix that, I guess.
post #6 of 45
Days of Wine and Roses is an album I’m pretty familiar with, but I gave it a couple spins again just to refresh myself.

I'm a big fan of Karl Precoda’s playing, though I’m not sure that I don’t prefer his replacement, Paul Cutler (I think my single favorite DS song is the cover of “See That My Grave Is Kept Clean,” from Ghost Stories). Kendra Smith is another great entry in the “cute white chick on bass” sweepstakes (along with Tina Weymouth, Cait O’Riordan, and Sara Lee); she also does a nice vocal on “Too Little, Too Late.” Generally, though, the album’s a terrific guitar workout, with Smith and Duck a great foundation for the twin-guitar shenanigans.

I’ve just got one hangup where The Dream Syndicate are concerned: Steve Wynn sounds like a complete asshole. His Lou Reed impression replaces the original’s warmth and vulnerability with snark and smugness (and it doesn’t help that he used to deny vigorously that he sounded anything like Reed). I’ve found him latterly tolerable with The Baseball Project, but when he was young and snotty he was just too fucking snotty for my taste.

If you enjoy DS, the Cutler version of the band recorded what may be the best-sounding live album in rock and roll history: the 2-disc remastered release of Live At Raji’s. With songs drawn mostly from this album and Medicine Show, It’s just an insane guitar workout, recorded on crystal-clear DAT, nearly the equivalent of Television at their best (the principal difference being that Tom Verlaine’s a songwriter, and Wynn just isn’t). I strongly recommend ripping it to mp3, then editing out the between-song “banter” (Wynn begins the album by introducing them as “the fabulous Dream Syndicate,” and things don't improve from there).

It had been some time since I listened to It’s Anything, and I’d forgotten about the machine-gun drumming that kicks it off. WTF is right, the album’s a great workout for Ó Cíosóig. Apart from that, MBV still sounds to me like a bunch of kids who once heard “Sister Ray” through the window of a passing car and spent a career trying to duplicate it. The vocals are pleasant, but if you’re going to make the listener work to catch the lyrics, it would help to offer something more rewarding than “Keep coming now / Possessed of nothing more than hell / Before I can speak / My world is wishing me asleep.” But the wash of guitar is just as hypnotic as I recall.

In the end, I think I continue to find Dream Syndicate more to my taste, but MBV’s sound is pleasant enough to go down nicely as well, and will always have a very vivid sense of their times.
post #7 of 45
Album covers and lala links:


My Bloody Valentine
The one for The Dream Syndicate isn't available on there.
post #8 of 45
Thread Starter 
MBV's lyrics can be quite safely ignored. And thanks for the covers Judas.
post #9 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskey tango foxtrot View Post
MBV's lyrics can be quite safely ignored. And thanks for the covers Judas.
My pleasure! I wasn't able to listen to either of these today, unfortunately. I'll see what I can this weekend.
post #10 of 45
I was in kind of a hurry leaving the office this afternoon, so I probably wasn't as detailed in my responses as I might have been, but I did want to add that these were excellent choices: two fun albums that brought back some great memories.
post #11 of 45
I've had that Dream Syndicate album for ages and never got around to listening to it. Couple of tracks in and I'm wondering what the hell I was thinking. This is like a looser cousin of bands like Dinosaur Jr. and Pavement. This is my shit. Good choice. More thoughts when I actually finish the damn thing.
post #12 of 45
Thread Starter 
Really pleased with the responses this has gotten so far. 'The Days of Wine and Roses' is the sort of album I thought a lot of people might not have heard but would likely enjoy. And I hope to see Judas with a Kevin Shields avatar some month soon.

ETA: For anyone not already familiar with My Bloody Valentine I'd recommend listening to 'Loveless' first.
post #13 of 45
Definitely more spacy in the second half. It's been fun trying to pick out the bands that came after DS years after but sound amazingly similar. A little Sonic Youth over here, some Beat Happening over there. I'm surprised that lawyers for the major labels hadn't sued the band for ripping off their bands through the use of a time machine. And now onto the next album.
post #14 of 45
I don't know what's wrong with me. I should like Dream Syndicate. I love Television and The Velvet Underground and many other artists it appears they were influenced by (Neil Young, Dylan, Stooges). But I can't seem to be getting over how similar they sound to their influences, especially VU:

- Lou Reed vocals (especially Wynn's laid-back drawl on "Tell Me When It's Over")
- Feedback and distortion filled guitar rave-ups and extended grooves
- Slower, sweeter sounding song with Nico-like vocals
- "I dreamed last night I was born a hundred years ago" C'mon, that line is just pushing it a little too far

Of course I like other bands that don't hide their influences at all so I'm struggling to pinpoint why this is bothering me. Maybe I'm focusing on one aspect and overlooking how influential the album was on newer bands. No song is bad though and "Halloween" is indeed a great track.

I really loved My Bloody Valentine, so much so that I listened to their discography a couple times (even their crappy debut). Simply loved it. I think Isn't Anything and Loveless make a great pair together, complementing each other nicely.
post #15 of 45
I really like Loveless, got into because of the Lost in Translation soundtrack, but I'm having a really, really, hard time getting into Isn't Anything. It is kind of too ethereal for me to really get into, like it's not all their.
post #16 of 45
I thought it was a much more conventional album than Loveless. Yeah, there doesn't seem to be much of the distorted guitar that helped drive Loveless, so it relies on drums and electronic effects which does seem kind of new for the time. But I found myself having a much more easier time placing this album as representative of its time period than I did with Loveless, which really seems to come out of a music movement all its own.

A less aggressive and melodic version of Loveless, but it still perked my interest enough to merit further listening down the road. It's also fun seeing the first stirrings of what got into Loveless, like that weird electronic choir sound effect (worst description however, how someone is supposed to know what I'm talking I have no idea) showing up on a couple of tracks.
post #17 of 45
I'll post something more substantial on both of these albums later, but I just have to note that Bob Mould was pretty shameless in his lifting of the bendy guitar hook from "You Never Should" for "Gift" on Sugar's File Under: Easy Listening. I prefer the Sugar song overall, but the similarity is really striking.
post #18 of 45
Thread Starter 
I was disappointed by 'File Under: Easy Listening' upon its release and I don't think I've listened to it since. Probably time to revisit. I do recall Mould being open about 'Gift' as an MBV homage, much as 'A Good Idea' was to The Pixies.
post #19 of 45
I was familiar with Loveless, and while I never listened to My Bloody Valentine a whole lot, I knew it was a quality album. I never listened to Isn't Anything, so it's new territory. I know NOTHING about Dream Syndicate, so it's uncharted territory for me. I'll digest these albums Monday, and post my thoughts later on.

I love this thread.
post #20 of 45
The problem I have with Isn't Anything is that I heard it after Loveless and Loveless just towers over it. They were clearly still trying to define their sound and dynamics on this album. But there's plenty to like here and I'm glad I revisited it because I like it more than I remember. I've always liked it, but kind of unfairly neglect it. Its kind of like the Neutral Milk Hotels Aeorplane/On Avery Island albums. The second release unfairly crowds out the first. But I've grown to love On Avery Island almost as much as Aeroplane, so maybe it's time to give Isn't Anything more of a chance. Based on this recent listen, that just might happen.

I'll check out Dream Syndicate tonight or tomorrow.
post #21 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskey tango foxtrot View Post
I was disappointed by 'File Under: Easy Listening' upon its release and I don't think I've listened to it since. Probably time to revisit. I do recall Mould being open about 'Gift' as an MBV homage, much as 'A Good Idea' was to The Pixies.
I was looking around on the internet yesterday and found that Mould acknowledged "Your Favorite Thing" as a direct MBV steal (from "Blown a Wish"), but I couldn't find anything on "Gift"/"You Never Should." The bass and guitar parts on the intro are only different on the basis of effects pedals and relative sloppiness.

I have a love-hate relationship with most shoegaze bands, possibly moreso with MBV than with any of the others. Like just about everyone else, I'm reasonably astonished with the sonic variety that Shields and Butcher are able to squeeze from their guitars. The way that these massive chords bend in tandem to the next note on "Several Girls Galore" (a trick they use to even greater effect on Loveless) - it sounds impossible, and I don't think I've ever heard anyone else try to pull off that particular feat as well.

But, at the same time, the songs are a little underwritten for my taste, and the drumming drives me absolutely bonkers. It's a perfect storm of inhuman mechanical precision that's jarring with the flow of the guitars at one moment and absurd messiness that's obviously intentionally so, but still like nails on a chalkboard to me (to use "Several Girls Galore" again, Ó Cíosóig regularly omits the kick drum on the 1 and just hits a cymbal, and it sounds fucking awful to my ears every time).

I think they remedied some of these problems by relying more heavily on drum loops for Loveless, but I still wish they just used a better, steadier drummer or had a drum sound that doesn't feel so dated or at odds with the flow on both albums. The drumless songs like "No More Sorry" fare best in this regard.

Like Parker wrote, this sounds like a band working towards something, namely a format that drops the second rate J&MC-isms that require a melodic sense that Shields is a little short on and focuses on the more innovative, experimental stuff that he excels in.
post #22 of 45
I know what you mean about the drums. It was a huge turn off to My Bloody Valentine at first. It adds to their distinctive sound (and separates them from other shoegaze bands) but its also a bit of a distraction. Why get a drummer to drum like a machine rather than getting a drum machine?
post #23 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post
Why get a drummer to drum like a machine rather than getting a drum machine?
A valid question, but one that should probably be asked of Joy Division first.
post #24 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeb View Post
A valid question, but one that should probably be asked of Joy Division first.
Well, Joy Divisions percussion sometimes sounded mechanical, but not as relentlessly mechanical. The problem with My Bloody Valentine's percussion is that there's a lack of variety. It's 90% sharp snare.
post #25 of 45
Thread Starter 
To me Joy Division are a little overrated. They are pretty mechanical rhythmically, and I just don't think they have that many great songs.
post #26 of 45
I think they're overrated to a degree. I prefer New Order and I feel like NO get overshadowed by Curtis' suicide. But they have plenty of great songs, and they only had the chance to release two proper albums. So I can't really agree with you there.
post #27 of 45
Thread Starter 
edit
post #28 of 45
I'm the Joy Division/New Order fan here. How would you expect me to fight? I'd probably just sulk a lot.

edit: Well, now that doesn't make any sense...
post #29 of 45
Thread Starter 
You. Me. Idaho. After school. Oh there will be biting and scratching.
post #30 of 45
I would love to see the word "over-rated" stricken from any and all discussion of the arts.

Joy Division produced one of the best singles of the postpunk era, possibly THE best, and two fine albums. Whether one rates them above or below other artists is beside the point: it was quality work that was highly influential.

Yes, Curtis' death probably ensured their "legend" status (much as Cobain's did), but it also deprived us of the possibility that their small body of work was just the beginning of something extraordinary.

So, anyway... how about that Days of Wine and Roses, eh? I see that there's a deluxe reissue with a fistful of alternate versions and at least one previoiusly unreleased song. Anyone heard it?
post #31 of 45
Thread Starter 
Sorry dad.

I've got an ancient vinyl copy of 'Wine and Roses, I should check out that reissue.

By the way, I want to give a special shout out to Judas, Dave and Jeb. I'm relatively new to the boards and I couldn't have asked for a warmer welcome from you guys.
post #32 of 45
Go fuck yourself.

No, seriously...welcome. You haven't been here long but you're totally cool. Its nice to see cool new folks as opposed to stunt-posters, shills and trolls.
post #33 of 45
Most of the new people do shit that requires some heavy initial hazing, but you've been a good guy and a worthwhile contributor since DAY ONE. It's good to have you here.

I've got both albums loaded on my iPod now. I'll be listening to them at work here today and I'll post my thoughts later on.
post #34 of 45
Regarding Dream Syndicate:

I've listened to it twice and, while it's not a bad album, it's just not for me.

I really had my fill of this kind of music in college. Alot of my friends and fraternity brothers overplayed this kind of stuff 24/7 while I was trying to study (screechy feedback, slightly out-of-tune guitars, raw production), so I have alot of negative baggage for this kind of stuff. Some people really like that 'in the moment, unproduced, emphasize the mistakes' kind of sound...I don't.

Sorry to be that guy, WTF. I really, really tried on this one, but it's just not my thing.
post #35 of 45
So does anyone have a good link where I can stream Dream Syndicate? I'm finding a mishmash of studio and live tracks here or there on Jukefly and Grooveshark, but I can't seem to track down the whole album.

Edit: Nevermind, a little judicious searching and queue-building in Grooveshark, and I've got it.
post #36 of 45
I also listened to the MBV album 3 times this afternoon. I liked it a bit more than the other one, but it's still not quite my thing. I kinda like some of the atmospheric sounds that are brought to play on this album, but it still has that off-tune sound to it that just grates on me. I really liked the second track, though.

Someone needs to teach the drummer to play something else besides the snare drum.

Sorry, WTF. No insult is intended towards your selections, but they just don't reflect my own personal musical taste.
post #37 of 45
Thread Starter 
Yeah, but you like Rush.

Seriously, no offense taken. I appreciate your giving them a chance.
post #38 of 45
No, I LOVE Rush.
post #39 of 45
One of the reasons I love these threads is that they keep confounding my expectations.

I'd never really heard of the Dream Syndicate, and the description of the album had me really excited to check it out. The list of influences and the influenced in turn are right in my wheelhouse.

And I respect Loveless more than I love it. I saw MBV live this year, and again, I respected what they were doing, but found myself a little bored and drained by the end of the set. I'd never explored any of the rest of their discography, and was expecting to be underwhelmed by Isn't Anything.

So I was surprised as could be to find myself clicking with Isn't Anything much more upon first listen than I did with Days of Wine and Roses. I...I really like the MBV album. Dream Syndicate, aside from Halloween, didn't make much of an impression.

I'll try to give at least one more listen to both and check back in with further thoughts. But Isn't Anything might end up being the first thing I actually purchase based on these threads so far.

A side recommendation: For those of you that like MBV, you should check out Medicine. Look up the songs "Never Click" and "She Knows Everything".

Edit: lala Links: "Never Click" (wow, I'd forgotten what an assault of guitar noise this was. Brad Laner is a monster.)
"She Knows Everything" - There's a superior remix version of this, but I can't find it anywhere other than my hard drive. Oh well.
post #40 of 45
I'm going to have to side with Judas on this, I listened to both albums and just couldn't get into them but I'm always open to listening to new music, even if I don't like it, so I'm grateful to WTF to at least presenting me with something I've never heard before.

The Dream Syndicate-Days of wine roses
I was never a fan of Velvet Underground so I guess it was an uphill struggle already. I guess what turned me off was the guitar playing, the rhythm section was actually pretty cool and if they had a better guitarist it might've grown on me more. Steve Wynn's playing just seemed like he was purposely trying not to play, which I guess was the point but it just seemed incredibly sloppy to me. Each song seemed to have the same constant detuned sound.

My Bloody Valentine-isn't Anything
Again, the sound of this band just seemed very detuned, I'd call it boring but I don't really think that's fair, but there was definitely an abundance of reverb and distortion but barely any melody, I realize that might've been the idea, their sound was not supposed to conform to traditional musical ideas but I really had trouble listening to it, it sounded like they just got together to make some noise around a skeletal structure of a song.

I took your advice and listened to Loveless first, which gave me a taste but really, I didn't care for either.

Out of the two of them, I liked Dream Syndicate more.
post #41 of 45
I haven't had much of a chance to listen to either of these albums (but I have listened to both of them all the way through at least once) and I know I'm a little late to the game on this thread, but I thought I'd chime in anyways, for the hell of it.

My Bloody Valentine is a band I've been meaning to get in to for a while, but for various reasons haven't had the chance to. Isn't Anything is the first thing I've actually ever heard by them, but I really enjoyed it. It's really spare in some of the arrangements, but I like that. It's interesting how it sketches out its song structures rather than fully painting them. It lends a dreamy, spacey, quality to the music that I really like. I'm going to have to track this and Loveless down on CD and add them to my physical collection.

The Dream Syndicate is a band I was completely unaware of, which is odd because I'm a fan of both the era they hail from and the style they play. It's a really interesting bridge between styles that seems to encapsulate the proto-punk of the 60s, the art-punk and post-punk of the late seventies (I'm thinking punk music along the lines of Wire and early Talking Heads) and the indie, alternative, and lo-fi music that would be coming in the later 80s and early 90s. I snagged the deluxe edition of this at Amoeba for ten bucks and I imagine that it's going to be entering fairly heavy rotation on my iPod and in my car in the future.

I'm looking forward to more actively participating in the Album of the Month threads. They're fun and informative.
post #42 of 45
Thread Starter 
Good to have you on board Darth.
post #43 of 45
I've stuck with Days of Wine and Roses for a while, but I think my reaction is sort of along the lines of Nicholas' above: why don't I like this more than I do? The influences are solid, and the band comes from that early 80s pop/punk/psychedelia/country L.A. melting pot scene that produced some stuff I love. But it just sounds a tad undercooked to me.

It's as if the band wanted to retain that VU rawness, so they didn't work the songs out too much in advance, but by the time they got to the studio, they worked these simply-devised songs into the ground and drained the intensity right out (especially on the mid-tempo material). I get the feeling that punchier production (in fact, even a shittier mix that would fuzz up those guitars and kill the reverb on the drums) or a livelier performance would do these songs a lot of good, so maybe I should check out that live album Jeb mentioned. One weird thing is it helped illustrate for me how uniform the production was on the "Paisley Underground" albums of the era. The Long Ryders and Green on Red albums I've heard (which, like Dream Syndicate, I want to like more than I do) also seem like they'd sound a lot better with about twice the grit.

It's by no means a bad album (what is it about L.A. bands of the era ending with terrific title tracks?), but it's easy to hear why Wynn and company never made it as far as, say, R.E.M.

I hope I'm not being overly critical about all of these picks so far. I actually like aspects of most of them; it's just that nothing's completely hitting me over the head yet.
post #44 of 45
Though Loveless probably has their greatest songs I've always preferred Isn't Anything as an album. It's tighter and a lot more varied in tone, and the slightly wintery feel just suits my tastes a little more. No More Sorry is one of the most uniquely haunting songs I've ever heard.
post #45 of 45
I kind of have to agree with others on The Day of Wine And Roses. I should like it. I don't hate it. But it leaves me absolutely stone cold. I've given it a few listens because I assumed that repeat listens would get me calling back. But each new listen is kind of a chore.

Sorry, not trying to be a jerk. I totally understand and respect the band and the album...and I get where they're coming from. I just don't think it works as a whole. At least not for me.
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CHUD.com Community › Forums › MUSIC › Music › CHUD Album of the Month (or so) 09/18/09: THE DREAM SYNDICATE and MY BLOODY VALENTINE