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Alan Moore says "Oops! My bad!" - Page 2

post #51 of 148
9/22/09 at 5:46pm
You BRAVE AND BOLD people need to visit this thread and start talking about the Omac episode.
Get in there before the Musical episode airs and the thread explodes!

http://www.chud.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113719
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post #52 of 148
9/22/09 at 6:05pm
The reason Superhero comics are being latched on to in the American mainstream is simply their iconography and brand imagery. I think the same rules could be applied to any comic genre.

I think there exists a great deal of amazing adult graphic novels in a variety of genres, but the medium hasn't been properly sold to the American public yet. I think people just haven't figured out how to convince the public that one can find levels of sophistication in animation and comics that one could find in normal literature.

Graphic novels have the potential to engage both sides of one's brain, and have way more potential than they're given credit for.
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post #53 of 148
9/22/09 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobClark View Post
The Gentleman Ghost and The Demon.
Case closed.
And Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson.
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post #54 of 148
10/2/09 at 3:39pm
I didn't even read it as Alan Moore slagging Geoff Johns off for taking one of his old ideas and running with it. I took it as him slagging Johns off for taking an idea that he thought was sort of stupid and minor and making a massive event out of it.
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post #55 of 148
10/2/09 at 5:31pm
Also, people are ragging on Moore now, saying that almost everything he's done has been a riff or reinvention of someone else's work, so he has no right to complain. It was a bit of a poor choice of words on Moore's part, but I think the crucial distinction is that Moore is using existing CHARACTERS, whereas the big events seem to involve a lot of reused STORIES.
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post #56 of 148
10/2/09 at 6:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JXN1138 View Post
Well, by that logic, Moore must absolutely love the horrendously bad Brave and the Bold Batman cartoon.
Ouch. So wrong on so many level.
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post #57 of 148
10/2/09 at 7:44pm
Alan Moore can be down on his own story all he wants but it doesn't change anything. He also doesn't seem to understand what he did. It's not a Batman story. It's a Joker story and at the time the Joker still had rich, imaginative places to go. And his gritty take on Batman was when the gritty superhero comic still felt fresh. The current state of comics may be a consequence of his work, but it's not his fault or the fault of "The Killing Joke".
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post #58 of 148
10/3/09 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Goldberg View Post
Alan Moore can be down on his own story all he wants but it doesn't change anything. He also doesn't seem to understand what he did. It's not a Batman story. It's a Joker story and at the time the Joker still had rich, imaginative places to go. And his gritty take on Batman was when the gritty superhero comic still felt fresh. The current state of comics may be a consequence of his work, but it's not his fault or the fault of "The Killing Joke".
I dunno, is there really anything about the elements introduced - tragic origin story, Joker as the flip side of Batman's coin . that doesn't basically feel like a 19th century pulp cliché?
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post #59 of 148
10/3/09 at 3:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielRoffle View Post
I dunno, is there really anything about the elements introduced - tragic origin story, Joker as the flip side of Batman's coin . that doesn't basically feel like a 19th century pulp cliché?
Wasn't the idea that the tragic origin story was unreliable and constantly shifting in the Joker's mind? That doesn't strike me as particularly cliche.
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post #60 of 148
10/3/09 at 9:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan S~ View Post
Ouch. So wrong on so many level.


Nope, i'd said its right his alley.
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post #61 of 148
10/4/09 at 3:25pm
You joke, but since Moore has said his favourite comic of all time is "Herbie", that's probably not as detatched from reality as you'd expect.
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post #62 of 148
10/4/09 at 3:56pm
Herbie should be everyone's favourite comic of all time!
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post #63 of 148
10/4/09 at 4:24pm
I like the works of Alan Moore. But the persona of Alan Moore is getting a bit stale.
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post #64 of 148
10/4/09 at 4:38pm
Wait, I leave this thread alone for a week and people start badmouthin' The Brave and the Bold!?! What the Hell man? The Brave and the Bold should be a friend test.
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post #65 of 148
10/20/09 at 9:22am
These guys calling Moore a hypocrite for shitting on guys using pre-existing characters because he does the same thing don't get what he is saying. He is shitting on them for using pre-existing characters rather poorly.
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post #66 of 148
10/20/09 at 10:46am
Moore is great. Half the stuff that comes out of his mouth is pretty caustic, but I find interviews with him to be fascinating (despite the sometimes endless rehashing of certain points).

Brave and the Bold is amazing amazing AMAZING! I have been waiting for an original DC TV cartoon that didn't take itself so seriously for ages and this delivers. Not that the other series haven't been great too (Justice League Unlimited was a joy), but BotB is so damned fun!
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post #67 of 148
10/20/09 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chap Saxon View Post
These guys calling Moore a hypocrite for shitting on guys using pre-existing characters because he does the same thing don't get what he is saying. He is shitting on them for using pre-existing characters rather poorly.
Actually, I think it's that he's shitting them for reusing the same stories, not the same characters.
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post #68 of 148
10/21/09 at 2:00pm

More Moore Please

He may be batshit insane but Moore is always an interesting interview.

And besides - how can you be mad at a guy who works in an industry filled with self-important douchebags and blowhards?

He's a dick, but he's one amongst many.

FWIW I like Brave and The Bold. I was lucky enough to chat with James Tucker and he said (regarding the tone of the then not aired B&TB) 'Batman's been taken as far towards grim and gritty as anyone can take him - we decided why not go the other way?'

He had me when I saw the old school design for Green Arrow.
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post #69 of 148
11/6/09 at 12:41am
Alan Moore is still my favorite comics writer, top ten was fantastic. What do you guys think of Warren Ellis in comparison to Moore and Morrison?
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post #70 of 148
11/6/09 at 12:45am
I think Ellis is very good, and he's exceptional with ideas, but I think he relies a bit too much on a particular voice sometimes. And that voice says "bastard" a whole lot.
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post #71 of 148
11/6/09 at 1:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Millette View Post
I think Ellis is very good, and he's exceptional with ideas, but I think he relies a bit too much on a particular voice sometimes. And that voice says "bastard" a whole lot.
You really have Ellis defined there, Brad; I personally love his work, but sometimes, the sheer insanity and bleakness in his work gets to me; hell, the fact that most of the shit in "Fell" came from his research makes me sick a bit.
Still, he's probably my favorite comic book writer since college.
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post #72 of 148
11/6/09 at 1:27am
To those who say that Morrison is better than Moore, have you read Tom Strong? All Morrison has in his gold-standard catalogue is The Invisibles, Moore has Watchmen, Tom Strong, From Hell, and LXG. It's not even close.
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post #73 of 148
11/6/09 at 2:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graynadian View Post
To those who say that Morrison is better than Moore, have you read Tom Strong? All Morrison has in his gold-standard catalogue is The Invisibles, Moore has Watchmen, Tom Strong, From Hell, and LXG. It's not even close.
Zenith, Animal Man, All Star Superman, Doom Patrol, the Filth, Seaguy and We3 would like a word with you, sir.
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post #74 of 148
11/6/09 at 3:52am
And Seven Soldiers.
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post #75 of 148
11/6/09 at 4:05am
Nothing wrong with this JLA run or the Marvel Boy mini, either.
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post #76 of 148
11/6/09 at 6:36am
I think Ellis works best when he adds a tinge of optimism in his writing as in Planetary and, to a certain extent, Fell. Without that, as Brad said, you've got a very entertaining, totally misanthropic writer who lets his unsavoury elements kind of overpower his writing. No Hero is a neat idea that just jumps massively off the deep end by the end of the book for me. I think the best thing he's doing at the moment is Freakangels.
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post #77 of 148
11/6/09 at 6:40am
His JLA run is one of the few trades I still own.
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post #78 of 148
11/6/09 at 7:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graynadian View Post
To those who say that Morrison is better than Moore, have you read Tom Strong? All Morrison has in his gold-standard catalogue is The Invisibles, Moore has Watchmen, Tom Strong, From Hell, and LXG. It's not even close.
Morrison's work is far more esoteric than Moore's, though god knows Moore gives it a good shot once in a while. Either way, it's an unfair comparison.

I haven't read much Ellis. Can anybody suggest a good place to start? (but since someone mentioned that he lets his own misanthropy overpower his writing - please tell me he's nothing like Garth Ennis)
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post #79 of 148
11/6/09 at 8:23am
Planetary would probably be the best place to start.
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post #80 of 148
11/6/09 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
Zenith, Animal Man, All Star Superman, Doom Patrol, the Filth, Seaguy and We3 would like a word with you, sir.
Yeah, no shit. Saying that Morrison's only great work is the Invisibles is pretty fucking stupid. That may be his GREATEST work, but it's the greatest in a pretty incredible career.
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post #81 of 148
11/6/09 at 9:51am
Planetary and Transmetropolitan are probably Ellis' best, and I can't recommend NextWAVE high enough. Easily the most fun and entertaining superhero comic in years.

But I think the real unsung hero in Ellis' body of work is Global Frequency. Great idea, great execution, and it's ultimately a testament to how much of an optimist he really can be at points.
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post #82 of 148
11/6/09 at 10:41am
Yeah, Global Frequency is excellent, and NextWAVE is great fun. I'd check out Fell also.
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post #83 of 148
11/6/09 at 1:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Millette View Post
Planetary and Transmetropolitan are probably Ellis' best, and I can't recommend NextWAVE high enough. Easily the most fun and entertaining superhero comic in years.

But I think the real unsung hero in Ellis' body of work is Global Frequency. Great idea, great execution, and it's ultimately a testament to how much of an optimist he really can be at points.
The death of the Global Frequency pilot was awful, IMo...that show would had been great.
His runs on the Ultimate Marvel universe aint perfect, but they are pretty damn good reads; The Ultimate Galactus trilogy and his work on Ultimate Fantastic Four are fun as hell to read, and loaded with cool futurism concepts and crazy ideas.
What I like about Ellis's superhero work is that when he's given full control of a book, he goes insane with it (Nextwave); I still cant believe marvel allowed the crazyness he pulled in those titles (Ultimate Secret has a 3 page disscusion on the fermi paradox).
Never read the leaked version of his banned Hellblazer issue, though.
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post #84 of 148
11/6/09 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex B View Post
Yeah, Global Frequency is excellent, and NextWAVE is great fun. I'd check out Fell also.
Fell is great ( I got a letter published in one issue, proving Ellis is a class act), but the apendix on each issue where he talaks about the sources for each issues's plot can be devastating at times.
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post #85 of 148
11/6/09 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
Zenith, Animal Man, All Star Superman, Doom Patrol, the Filth, Seaguy and We3 would like a word with you, sir.
Touche salesman. I forgot about Animal Man and We3 (great but so short it's hard to define it in the same realm as the others).

All Star Superman is pretty cool but I wouldn't put it as an all-time great comic. Haven't read Doom Patrol, the Filth, or Seaguy.

I guess it's personal choice, but I have a hard time putting any writer above the guy who wrote Watchmen AND Tom Strong. IMO Moore has virtually unlimited breadth within the medium.
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post #86 of 148
11/6/09 at 2:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graynadian View Post
Touche salesman. I forgot about Animal Man and We3 (great but so short it's hard to define it in the same realm as the others).

All Star Superman is pretty cool but I wouldn't put it as an all-time great comic. Haven't read Doom Patrol, the Filth, or Seaguy.

I guess it's personal choice, but I have a hard time putting any writer above the guy who wrote Watchmen AND Tom Strong. IMO Moore has virtually unlimited breadth within the medium.
How about Art "Ive got a pulitzer for a graphic novel" Spiegelman? In the words of Moore: ""I have been convinced that Art Spiegelman is perhaps the single most important comic creator working within the field and in my opinion Maus represents his most accomplished work to date."
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post #87 of 148
11/6/09 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
How about Art "Ive got a pulitzer for a graphic novel" Spiegelman? In the words of Moore: ""I have been convinced that Art Spiegelman is perhaps the single most important comic creator working within the field and in my opinion Maus represents his most accomplished work to date."
Maus is great, but I don't think it's better than Watchmen, From Hell, or Tom Strong. More vital and relevant to the greater literary community? Probably.
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post #88 of 148
11/6/09 at 3:34pm
Thread Starter 
Tom Strong > Maus?

You should read more comics.
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post #89 of 148
11/6/09 at 3:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobClark View Post
Tom Strong > Maus?

You should read more comics.
Would that make me like Maus more or Tom Strong less?

I guess I'm kind of like Moore himself in that I'm attracted to creativity and imagination in comics more than realism. I consider Maus to be perhaps the most important comic ever in terms of advancing the medium into a critically accepted art form, but I don't find it particularly original or unique, just good.
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post #90 of 148
11/6/09 at 3:55pm
Maus isn't creative or imaginative? Jesus.
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post #91 of 148
11/6/09 at 3:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graynadian View Post
but I don't find it particularly original or unique, just good.
I'm curious what you would find unique or original if using anthropomorphized cats and mice to depict the Holocaust compellingly fails your criteria.
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post #92 of 148
11/6/09 at 3:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bendrix View Post
I'm curious what you would find unique or original if using anthropomorphized cats and mice to depict the Holocaust compellingly fails your criteria.
Animal Farm.
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post #93 of 148
11/6/09 at 4:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graynadian View Post
Animal Farm.
Wow.
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post #94 of 148
11/6/09 at 4:04pm
Thread Starter 
But Animal Farm isn't a comic...
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post #95 of 148
11/6/09 at 4:07pm
I like Maus, find it both entertaining and disturbing, and consider it an important classic. That said, I am more attracted to the sheer imagination of Allan Moore, Grant Morrison, and Warren Ellis' works than I am to it. I feel that outside of the broad anthropomorphization of races into species, it is a mostly literal account of Spiegelman's life under the Nazi regime.

It that statement blows your mind, you must go through a lot of kleenex.
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post #96 of 148
11/6/09 at 4:07pm
It also has almost zero correlation to MAUS aside from the fact that yes, there are animals in both.

Christ, I like Watchmen as much of the next guy, but it's the best superhero comic book. And even that might be debatable in a few circles. It's not the greatest achievement of mankind.
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post #97 of 148
11/6/09 at 4:09pm
As I hard as I'm trying to, I can't let this go. You honestly believe Orwell's use of talking animals in a straightforward allegory invalidates Spiegelman being labeled unique or creative when he uses "funny animals" as metatextual analogues to actual people?

Not to mention that Tom Stong is an amalgamation of pulp/science fiction/superhero tropes which, however beautifully orchestrated they were, still existed before Moore appropriated them.

Please tell me this isn't what you're saying.

ETA: Yeah, that's thing about Elie Wiesel's Night--it needed more hobbits.
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post #98 of 148
11/6/09 at 4:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Millette View Post
It also has almost zero correlation to MAUS aside from the fact that yes, there are animals in both.
I was referring to the anthropomorphization which exists in both books, and which Animal Farm originated, moreso than the mere presence of animals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Millette View Post
Christ, I like Watchmen as much of the next guy, but it's the best superhero comic book. And even that might be debatable in a few circles. It's not the greatest achievement of mankind.
Agreed.

What do you guys/girls look for most in comics?
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post #99 of 148
11/6/09 at 4:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graynadian View Post
I feel that outside of the broad anthropomorphization of races into species, it is a mostly literal account of Spiegelman's life under the Nazi regime.

It that statement blows your mind, you must go through a lot of kleenex.
It does because it's about Spiegelman's father recounting his holocaust experience. So it wasn't literal. It is a firsthand memoir of Spiegelman's relationship with his father and a secondhand account of the holocaust.

But I get it. You like superhero comics. No shame in that. But to call Maus literal and unimaginative is an intellectual war crime. (do u see what I did thar?)
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post #100 of 148
11/6/09 at 4:14pm
More depth than you do, apparently. If you think MAUS isn't a creative or imaginative work just because it's based on Spiegelman's father's actual account as a Holocaust survivor (and his own as the son of Holocaust survivors) and not "made up", then I don't think you even really know what makes a good comic book.
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