G20 Summit - This is America - Page 2

We have shit like that between where I live in downtown Chicago and Midway airport.

I hope we dont get awarded the Olympics when its announced next week. God forbid those foreigners travel further than a mile west of Lake Michigan.

Your exact words regarding Pittsfield were, "full of crack dealers and poverty."

The burden of proof is on you. I am not doing your research for you. Additionally per capita income is not proof that there are less people working in all those buildings than the amount of people working in a steel mill.

As for the photos of the mills, we have stuff like that in Seattle and wonder of wonders it is an amazing, beautiful, and livable city. Like I said earlier, I am sure Pittsburgh has its problems but I am also sure it is nowhere near as horrible as you assume it is.

In short, like always, you are talking out of your ass.

I don't know about Pittsburgh but Philadelphia is definitely a dumpster.

I really want to make a "New Universe" joke here, but i just cant find the words or courage.
And I think it has been already established in the forums that Detroit has the capital of the new wasteland crown.

From some random blog;

The Truth About the “Military Kidnapping” Video From the G-20
http://thecollegepolitico.com/the-tr...from-the-g-20/

I still don't get why police officers wear military fatigues.

I just can't believe a thread about an incredibly important topic of continually abused rights in the United States has been hijacked by an inane Pittsburgh Vs. Pittsfield argument that absolutely everyone feels the need to chime in on instead. Idiocracy now!

Think they bothered to read his Miranda Rights?

So the little shit used the chaos and crowds as a cover to vandalize private property. Got what he deserved!

Oh no, Henny Penny! The sky is falling!

ETA: Seriously though, as the victim of rights abuses by the cops (more than once) I think it is seriously fucked.

That first video is definitely real, or at the very least it was shot in Pittsburgh (Carnegie Mellon to be specific).

As for Pittsburgh in general, I'm biased, but it really is a great city. Everyone has this "we're all in this together" kind of mentality. We're not filled with stuck up and angry white people like in Cleveland and we're not a bunch of toothless, camo-wearing retards like in Cleveland.

Yes, steel production has collapsed 30 years ago (though U.S. Steel still has a strong blue-collar presence in the area). But what Pittsburgh has done is transform itself from a steel city to a medical city (now waiting to hear shitty jokes about how the Steelers should be renamed the Antibiotics). UPMC is the main reason, employing thousands and ensuring we have some of the best medical facilities and staff in the nation. Also Pitt and CMU are two of the best schools in America for medical and engineering education. And while Pittsburgh was one of the biggest cities in the country in terms of business a hundred years ago, many big-leaguers still reside here such as Bayer, Westinghouse, Mellon, PNC, Joy, and Heinz. And thanks to CMU, Google even has a presence.

And yeah, our population continues to decline slowly and most of the talented kids from said schools are going elsewhere (except in media production and interactive design which both flourish in Pittsburgh), and our economy isn't at its greatest (way better than some of our contemporaries though). Pittsburgh is also a city that dislikes change. Look at all the decrepit buildings on Rt. 51 or Century III Mall. Still, we have the inclines, two championships this year, a shitload of bars, and Kennywood. Doesn't that count for something?

I was going to point out that the picture of downtown Pittsburgh someone posted doesn't show all the industrial detritus that litters the city, but you covered it.

As far as the G20 goes, I've been hiding out in my compound on the North Shore (Brighton Heights!), so I've missed a lot of the "fun." However, a friend of mine lives in a dorm room at Pitt (right above the 7/11 on Forbes for you local folks) and she was saying some shit went down last night. Tear gas; shootings; the works. Truth be told, I've been far more concerned with overzealous cops and their reactions than with any activities by any and all protesters. Well, that and traffic.

And to answer the good Captain's question as to why cops would wear fatigues, one word: intimidation. They want to intimidate others into silence and submission. Frankly, I think it's bullshit. But that's just me.

Here's some good video of the event I just described. It's chilling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etv8YEqaWgA

And for the record, Pittsburghers don't really riot. Aside from a couple assholes at Pitt after the last two Super Bowls, there really hasn't been much rioting. Most of these retards are out-of-towners who came into town on bikes and ethanol-powered buses. A lot of them in the video ARE Pitt students, but how many of them are rioting/protesting? I've been in a riot before at Ohio State, but just to spectate. I watched cars get turned over, bottles get thrown at cops, tires get slashed, but as soon as I heard the rubber bullets, I ran like a maniac just like everyone in this video. Most of these kids are just looking for something interesting to do.

Oh, and Century III is still my favorite mall in Pittsburgh.

kids looking for an adrenaline rush and a few bored old timers out there seeing what all the fuzz is about. I have been to several similar events when I was very young and the VAST majority are there simply out of curiosity and excitement.

That pesky Bill of Rights.....if we could just do away with that, the cops wouldn't have to pretend like they don't want to just KILL EVERY PERSON THERE. The protesters were looking for an adrenaline rush? Every cop I have ever know is an adrenalin junky who gets a huge rush out of forcefully taking somebody down. No body is innocent in this. The protesters know this is a special circumstance, they know the current Geo political climate. Playing innocent and dumb is just fucking stupid. On the other hand, the cops look like they are just begging the protesters to give them an excuse.

If people don't get killed it will probably be a miracle.

The thing is most of these people aren't protesters. Of course it's an adrenaline rush for the police officers too and I know a few officers who participated in the Copenhagen riots 2 years ago who admit it was a rush and a scary one at times when they were outnumbered 10 to 1. I'm really not defending anyone but I certainly don't pity the folks who choose to stick around just for the fun of it.

I think we are in a lot of agreement here, Bitches. I used the term 'protesters' as opposed to 'stupid fuckers hanging around just to be contrary'. I learned long ago not to fuck with cops. The law is literally on their side. do they abuse power? Of course. Fat lot of good it does to point out that fact, if you get killed or seriously wounded in the process. Is there a good time to stand up to an imperialist regime? Yes. Is the fucking G20 summit that time? Probably not if you really want to be effective.

There is a huge and obvious difference between a place that has people who deal crack, and places that are "full of crack dens" or whatever you said. Crack dens? Pittsfield is not The Wire. It's just an economically depressed New England city that's seen better days.

Kate, ever hear of the term: "Quitting while you're ahead?" No? I didn't think so........

I know I should not have taken the bait, it just bugged me to have someone insult a local city, when I'd gone out of my way not to cause offense to Pittsburgh.

On the subject of police abuses, I really have little constructive to add. This is nothing new. They taser and kill the elderly, the infirm , and the innocent. The Cops ARE the robbers. In a very real way, the wild west never died in this country, and "law enforcement" is often reponsible for breaking the law on an epic and horrifying scale that would put the Mafia to shame. After we get through with health reform, we need police reform.

The BART shooting of last year? A police officer shoots in the back of the head an unarmed HANDCUFFED teenager who was laying prone and restrained on the ground. He murders him in front of a crowd of the boy's friends. We have TWO seperate cellphone videos of the event. Was he thrown in jail for cold blooded murder? No of course not, he got put on "leave".

My god.

Unfortunately if it were not for events like the G20, police abuse would be swept under the rug entirely. When was the last time anyone talked about the BART shooting on CNN? Not in months and months. When was the last time CNN spent 15 minutes discussing American Idol? I rest my case.

You posted a picture of bombed out wreckage from Fallout 3 and said it was pittsburgh, described it as a Faded mess of abandoned rust belt factories, and implied rampant drug abuse. Not a stretch to think some people might not agree with you.

I've been hit with both a brick, a rubber bullet and a tear gas can (on separate ocassions of course) just because I happened to be wlaking near a protest that turned violent...and a a person who lives in a country that has at least 2 violent riots each year, i can tell you that in every protest you have idiots who are there to loot, attack the cops or create acts of vandalism because their under someone's payroll.
You ever dodged a molotov cocktail and then run from a mob? Well, sympathy for protesters ended up right there for me...if you are idiot enough to think a protest allows you to loot/destroy/attack others, you deserve getting a baton face smash, and I hope it hurts.
You want to do it right? march around chanting and carrying signs...the minute your little cry for attention starts fucking other citizen's day, dont be surprise if you get whats coming.
Oh,and the crime i commited for being almost molotoved and lynched? being a member of the press and carrying a camera.

Hey I've been tear gassed twice, and we burned a car once (with consent from the owner). Fun!

Was the car insured?

Almost abandoned. It was to make a pointless "barricada" (barricade?). The funny part is my mom driving up to it trying to get home and telling me in front of the other "revolutionaries" to get in the car and go home.

Not cool.

Man I'm disappointed, you're in South America and you haven't seen more "action"? ;-)

ElCaptainInsuranceFraud

It works like a clock...the usual Pro Salvador Allende/anti Pinochet Riots in September (its been 20 fucking years since that Military Dictatorship ended, and it came to being because you guys fucked up before it, you dumb fucks! The left has been in power ever since and doing a shittier job with every new term, MOVE THE FUCK ON!)
My country may get retarded a lot, but at least it works like clockwork.

Man, those cops are really out of control! They took down a couple of Hot Co-eds...even though they were hot!

I've seen a couple of those YouTube clips now and in each case everyone I see includes protesters/students/whatever getting in the cops faces and getting taken down. Kids, here is a tip: If there is a phalanx of Huge Cops in armor, wielding Batons and bulletproof shields, is moving towards you and telling you to leave, you don't want to argue with them.

Woo! Wooooohoooooo! Nuremberg, baby! Locksteppin' time!

Ah that brings me back. I was both teargassed and shot in the ass by a rubber bullet in Seattle during the WTO fiasco.

Those national guard folk dont play around.

Thats just an awesome sentence.

Well, that's one way of looking at it. Another way is the cops were overreacting to a peaceful gathering.

Obama totally schooled Ahmedinejad today. Kinda awesome. By dropping news on the day of Iran's big US show, it's had the effect of isolating Iran from China and Russia. I won't oversell it (good first step) but I'm glad to see this bit of diplomacy happen.

Looks like we all got hit by a bicycle made out of righteousness, gang.

We're working feverishly to sweep our problems into the suburbs before the games start in February.

God you suck. You've obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Go away and don't talk shit on my city.

It seems you didn't get the memo. Ignore her.

Yeah, it's getting fun out in the Valley late at night -- thankfully I don't actually live there!

That said, Chicago does suburban blight at the world class level: watch Gary IN as it slides by the train and you'll swear you're passing by Detroit circa 1980s.

As an East Van resident I honestly couldn't be more content. (Seriously, I grew up in White Rock. Fuck the suburbs.)

... That photo WAS Pittsburgh... from the game fall out 3. If I had just shown a photo of random wreckage and claimed it was Pittsburgh, that might be an insult. Instead I was showing Pittsburgh as depicted the FO3 "The Pitt" DLC expansion pack. Come on, that's funny. I even put in a winking face to let everyone know I was just being playful. I almost included a "FYI to those without a sense of humor, I'm kidding" but assumed people would not be that humorless. Everyone was pointing to a picture of a glittering photo of the Pittsburgh skyline as evidence that it was not blighted like the rest of the 'rust belt'. As a pretty obvious (and come on, funny) joke, I stuck up a picture of a post apocalyptic videogame version of Pittsburgh and jokingly cited it as 'evidence' that contradicted the glittering skyline photo. Come on, if you feel that was some kind of vicious attack I do not really know what to say to change your mind. It was just me being silly and I thought it was kinda funny. Again, I used a winking face, the universal indicator for "I'm being less than serious"


I clearly stated that it was not ENTIRELY like that, but that there was definitely an element of exactly what you just said. Given the responses of some Chewers who live there, some areas are very much full of rusted and abandoned factories and businesses. So... what's wrong with what I said again? That I stated a fact that some might not like to hear?

No where did I say that about Pittsburgh. And, drug abuse is everywhere in this nation. It's just that in some places it's drugs you get from the drug deal-, er, Doctor in the white coat, and some places people get their drugs from guys in hoodies.


There we agree. I'm more than used to being the holder of minority opinions around here. However, as long as I make my point in a cogent and good humored fashion, I'd like my arguments to stand or fall on their own merits, not be dismissed out of hand just because I'm the person making the argument.

Kate just earned the distinction of being the very first person on my ignore list. Fucking christ, I just finally reached that point. I can't take it anymore.......

You know, I wrote a point by point reply to you where I took the time to try and organize my thoughts first before I typed. I felt I was being very rational and doing a good job of explaining myself. These days (I'll admit I did not always do this when I first signed up) I am making an effort on these boards to be polite and to explain myself when others disagree with me or misinterpret what I say. Encountering hostility in return is, to be perfectly honest here, both dismaying and more than a little hurtful.

Oh Sure they were. I also bet those police got all of 1 hour of anti-riot training, probably spent watching some film made in 1970.

But going up to said cop and trying to "reason" with him (which probably consisted of screaming "we have a RIGHT to protest, MAN!") is simply inviting a punch in the face.

Trying to have a reasonable discussion with a law enforcement officer (Who we entrust to keep us safe and protect our rights, and.. you know, not punch us in the face) is legitimate cause to expect to be assaulted? God bless America...

God forbid anyone try to REASON with a police officer... Can't have that, now can we?

If there's one thing from an outsiders perspective I've learned in the last 8 years its that THIS is America.

Coming from the guy who lives in the u.p. of Cuba.

"u.p."?

Upper Peninsula.It's a Michigan thing

Walking down the street on a sunny day and chatting with a policeman, yes. Walking up to a line of cops in riot gear with nightsticks and guns, who are expecting violence, who are charged with protecting world leaders, who know that shit happens at G-X meetings, no.

Context, Kate, context

I think that the expectation of violence leads to violence. If the the protestors felt that they could talk to a police officer without being punched in the face, maybe they'd chill out a bit too.


The culture of violence at these protests breeds more violence. The least violent marches are often the ones that are the largest and where the protesters or marchers are allowed freedom of movement and assembly. As soon as guys in riot gear and gasmasks start shoving and telling them where to go, thats when you get the people pissed off and throwing stones.


I think at a protest it is more important than ever to make sure we are respecting the rights of the citizens engaged in protest. Context is important, you are correct.